The question the jewish `gods` dont like to answer!!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

I don't think he did...

You won't think He did if you are reading Gnostic texts and Bibles translated from the Gnostic manuscripts. The Gnostics denied the deity of Jesus Christ and expurgated any verses that made reference to Christ's claims of deity.

This was my point, Jesus was not God...he was a man that understood God because he was sent by him. Some would claim "Gods only begotten son" to which i wouldn't argue.

This is why the church didn't want the gnostic gospels in their cannon, many of them show jesus wasn't God... which would make their "God" nothing more then another man.

He was a prophet yes, but not God any less then you or I... The difference was he knew Exactly how God would act in every situation...and some say "sinless" to which i can't argue...

Originally posted by Akragon



Alright so again, why would these texts not be "inspired" by God...

Because for one thing, they are anti-biblical in many parts. God will never contradict Himself. Secondly, if the authors of the books are lying about their names (Thomas, Peter et cetra) that would go against what we know about God, that He cannot lie.

And again please quote me where Jesus said "i am God"

Please watch the different videos I linked Sir. It's not a long exercise.

But briefly, remember when Satan was tempting Jesus and asked Jesus to bow down and worship him and he'd give Jesus all the kingdoms of the Earth. Jesus said "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God only." But in numerous places throughout scripture Jesus allows others to worship Him without stopping them.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

It wan't "various" reasons, the church rejected any texts that were not written by people who were in direct association with Jesus's apostles or who were apostles themselves. The Gnostic texts began in the 2nd century through the 4th and used the names of Christ's apostles to try and give them legitimacy.

Yes this is possible...

but have you also read that Chirsts appostles didn't even understand Chirsts message? So how was the church of hundreds of years later...

as you can read here...

43And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples,

44Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.

45But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

46Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

47And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,

48And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

I don't think he did...

You won't think He did if you are reading Gnostic texts and Bibles translated from the Gnostic manuscripts. The Gnostics denied the deity of Jesus Christ and expurgated any verses that made reference to Christ's claims of deity.

This was my point, Jesus was not God...he was a man that understood God because he was sent by him. Some would claim "Gods only begotten son" to which i wouldn't argue.

This is why the church didn't want the gnostic gospels in their cannon, many of them show jesus wasn't God... which would make their "God" nothing more then another man.

He was a prophet yes, but not God any less then you or I... The difference was he knew Exactly how God would act in every situation...and some say "sinless" to which i can't argue...

The Gnostics removed the verses that stated Jesus's deity. Are you really inclined to believe the Gnostics knew better about what was true concerning Christ's deity than the apostles of Jesus Christ who wrote the books that the Gnostics took the pleasure of expurgating these verses from?

I'd think the apostles knew better about Christ than Alexandrian Gnostics when never met Christ. Wouldn't you?

Are you going to watch all the videos I linked Sir? I've asked kindly a few times and many of your questions are answered by a man with greatly better credentials than I have.

reply to post by Akragon

but have you also read that Chirsts appostles didn't even understand Chirsts message? So how was the church of hundreds of years later...

They didn't understand some things when Christ spoke them, but in Acts when the Holy Spirit came and indwelt the believers it was the Holy Spirit who wrote the NT books. The apostles only held the pens. The heptadic structure of the NT books attests to the Holy Spirit as the author, it would be impossible for a man or men to write the heptadic structures into the text.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon

Alright so again, why would these texts not be "inspired" by God...

Because for one thing, they are anti-biblical in many parts. God will never contradict Himself. Secondly, if the authors of the books are lying about their names (Thomas, Peter et cetra) that would go against what we know about God, that He cannot lie.

And again please quote me where Jesus said "i am God"

Please watch the different videos I linked Sir. It's not a long exercise.

But briefly, remember when Satan was tempting Jesus and asked Jesus to bow down and worship him and he'd give Jesus all the kingdoms of the Earth. Jesus said "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God only." But in numerous places throughout scripture Jesus allows others to worship Him without stopping them.

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Because for one thing, they are anti-biblical in many parts

Anti biblical, or anti church...... and we all know what happens to anyone back then who was against the church don't we...

But briefly, remember when Satan was tempting Jesus and asked Jesus to bow down and worship him and he'd give Jesus all the kingdoms of the Earth. Jesus said "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God only." But in numerous places throughout scripture Jesus allows others to worship Him without stopping them

Why would he stop them, they have free will to do as they want, do they not? Christ warns people of many things but few people listened...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

but have you also read that Chirsts appostles didn't even understand Chirsts message? So how was the church of hundreds of years later...

They didn't understand some things when Christ spoke them, but in Acts when the Holy Spirit came and indwelt the believers it was the Holy Spirit who wrote the NT books. The apostles only held the pens. The heptadic structure of the NT books attests to the Holy Spirit as the author, it would be impossible for a man or men to write the heptadic structures into the text.

Yes i've seen the Heptadic structure, im not a mathmatician so i couldn't prove anything to disagree with what is said.

So, again you believe the "holy spirit' came to them and told them what to write? And it is exactly what we have in the bible today...


But the gnostics were not visited by any such spirit... And so their writings even though they were christs words, were not legit...

Sorry man, this isn't something we're going to agree on...

reply to post by NOTurTypical

And again please quote me where Jesus said "i am God"

Im still waiting on that quote btw....

reply to post by Akragon

Sorry man, this isn't something we're going to agree on...

The Bible was "closed" by the Holy Spirit in the book of Revelation which was written in 95 AD by John. The Spirit explicitly says the judgments of Revelation would be upon anyone who added to or took away from the book. The Gnostics did both in the 2nd through 4th centuries. They were heretics who denied Jesus was God in the flesh, and denied the relationship between the Father and the Son.

John says that those who deny the deity of Christ and who deny the relationship between the Father and the Son is the "spirit of antichrist".

Let's assume for arguments sake that Jesus was the 2nd person of the Trinity and divine. Would you assume satan would want to hide that fact from people or would satan agree to that?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And again please quote me where Jesus said "i am God"

Im still waiting on that quote btw....

"I and my Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?'

The Jews answered him, saying, 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

John Chapter 10

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Sorry man, this isn't something we're going to agree on...

The Bible was "closed" by the Holy Spirit in the book of Revelation which was written in 95 AD by John. The Spirit explicitly says the judgments of Revelation would be upon anyone who added to or took away from the book. The Gnostics did both in the 2nd through 4th centuries. They were heretics who denied Jesus was God in the flesh, and denied the relationship between the Father and the Son.

John says that those who deny the deity of Christ and who deny the relationship between the Father and the Son is the "spirit of antichrist".

Let's assume for arguments sake that Jesus was the 2nd person of the Trinity and divine. Would you assume satan would want to hide that fact from people or would satan agree to that?

I would say satan (if he exists) would agree to that... and would want him to tell everyone he could about it...

Because If jesus went around telling people he was the "2nd person of the trinity, and divine" they would crucify him all over again....even in this day.



Have you actually read about the Gnostics or are you just accepting what a church told you? Honestly from what you just said it doesn't sound like you did any research on them but just accepted what someone told you.

I've posted a link for some interesting info..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And again please quote me where Jesus said "i am God"

Im still waiting on that quote btw....

"I and my Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?'

The Jews answered him, saying, 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

John Chapter 10

I didn't see Jesus say "HE" was God, he expressed himself as "part" of God...

And in the other part the jews told him... he was making himself God, which he wasn't....and they judged him for it...

reply to post by Akragon

Have you actually read about the Gnostics?

Yes, the better part of a decade I've studied the paths we have for the differing scriptures and apocryphal books of the Bible. Gnosticism was a heretic sect that emerged in the 2nd century AD with Justin Martyr from Alexandria, Egypt. The disciples of the apostles of John (Polycarp) and Peter (Clement of Rome) specifically devote much of their time refuting the Gnostic heresies. The Gnostics were unbelievers who tried all they could to remove scripture verses they disagreed with and add ones that supported their Gnostic doctrines. They were pagans who mixed Greek philosophy with Christian doctrine and denied the deity of Jesus Christ and His physical, bodily resurrection from the dead..

reply to post by Akragon

I didn't see Jesus say "HE" was God, he expressed himself as "part" of God...
And in the other part the jews told him... he was making himself God, which he wasn't....and they judged him for it...

No, He didn't say He was "part" of God, He said He and the Father were one and the same. In another verse He tells his disciples that if they have seen Him they have likewise seen the Father Himself.

They Jews clearly understood this was a declaration of being God, that's why they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Have you actually read about the Gnostics?

Yes, the better part of a decade I've studied the paths we have for the differing scriptures and apocryphal books of the Bible. Gnosticism was a heretic sect that emerged in the 2nd century AD with Justin Martyr from Alexandria, Egypt. The disciples of the apostles of John (Polycarp) and Peter (Clement of Rome) specifically devote much of their time refuting the Gnostic heresies. The Gnostics were unbelievers who tried all they could to remove scripture verses they disagreed with and add ones that supported their Gnostic doctrines. They were pagans who mixed Greek philosophy with Christian doctrine and denied the deity of Jesus Christ and His physical, bodily resurrection from the dead..

Alright then...

Im not going to argue with you about something you don't understand...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

I didn't see Jesus say "HE" was God, he expressed himself as "part" of God...
And in the other part the jews told him... he was making himself God, which he wasn't....and they judged him for it...

No, He didn't say He was "part" of God, He said He and the Father were one and the same. In another verse He tells his disciples that if they have seen Him they have likewise seen the Father Himself.

They Jews clearly understood this was a declaration of being God, that's why they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

Alright, me and my father are also one and the same... Does that mean im also God?

They assumed he was saying he was God when in fact he wasn't saying that. Again show me one instance where Jesus said, I AM GOD...

Will you watch the video series I've linked or not? Most of your questions you've asked my are answered by one of the greatest bible teachers of the modern era. You can get a great glimpse of where I'm coming from so you can understand my problems with the Gnostics much clearer.

Please do so for me?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Will you watch the video series I've linked or not? Most of your questions you've asked my are answered by one of the greatest bible teachers of the modern era. You can get a great glimpse of where I'm coming from so you can understand my problems with the Gnostics much clearer.

Please do so for me?

link them again please...if you insist i'll watch

but do me one favor.....if i must watch your videos, you have to read my thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Deal?

reply to post by Akragon

Alright, me and my father are also one and the same... Does that mean im also God?

You're not one and the same as the Father. If you're born again you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but that doesn't make you the Creator of the universe. I'd never claim to be one and the same as the Father.

The Bible clearly says all things were created by Jesus Christ. And that He pre-existed Abraham. Jesus also calls Himself the Great I AM. Jesus claimed to be God, either He was crazy, a liar, or was telling the truth and is LORD.

reply to post by Akragon

link them again please...if you insist i'll watch

Oh come on, I can link them again if you insist, but just go back to page 4, I linked them all there in a reply to you.

And that's a very fair deal, I'll check out your thread when i return from the store.