The Matrix may be reality

Originally posted by superduperman
I know what desmod is talking about. Hes saying, Try to think of something that doesnt exist. Im not saying something like a blue banana, because you know what blue looks like and you know what a banana looks like, you just put the two together. Its impossible to think of something that doesnt exist. A good example is: Think of a colour that you've never seen. You can't. (And no Querple isnt a valid answer).

I know what you're getting at, superduperman, but to my way of thinking, you are limiting the definition of "concept" to the body's 5 senses - sight, hearing, taste, smell & touch. But I believe that a concept can also be a part of one's thought processes. Therefore I feel that my answer was equally valid.

Is it possible, yes-anything is. Is it probable-no, nuff said.

Originally posted by Bastet
I know what you're getting at, superduperman, but to my way of thinking, you are limiting the definition of "concept" to the body's 5 senses - sight, hearing, taste, smell & touch. But I believe that a concept can also be a part of one's thought processes. Therefore I feel that my answer was equally valid.

I agree with your answer and think that its very possible for something to only be there if you are looking at it. A concept for which you have had no prior influence. Ok you were a child conceptualising about whether an object exists only when you are looking at it (incidentally i used to wonder the exact same thing when i was around that age, maybe a bit older). However, all the factors involved you have had prior influence with: The tree being there, possibility of it not being there etc. Im not explaining it fantastically, but do you understand what im trying to get at?

Maybe were just some program in a computer's hard drive and god is user? Its just a thought.

A pitiful existence.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by Eternal]

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[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Thats an amazing link. The site is very well done and very, very in-depth. I'm going to have to read everything before I will say anything though. I found this one part in it where they claim to be Atlanteans:

usnisa.org...

esther. the material you found in that link sounds intersting -

"The Living Cosmic Cube.

The COSMIC CUBE represents the single most important event in Earth history. It is the New Earth matrix given to man by the Elohim. It results from thirty years of vigourous fission and fusion between the mathematical, geometrical and musical forces of Heaven and Earth. It was over twenty million years before that in preparation."

But hell, the text on that page is a bitch for me to read, & I've tried 2 different browsers. My eyesight ain't what it used to be dammit, but maybe someone else can respond to your post.

superduperman, we've both shared a similar childhood experience then, and maybe this bears further investigation.

Originally posted by superduperman


Ok you were a child conceptualising about whether an object exists only when you are looking at it (incidentally i used to wonder the exa However, all the factors involved you have had prior influence with: The tree being there, possibility of it not being there etc. Im not explaining it fantastically, but do you understand what im trying to get at?

Certainly the tree, or whatever object or vista, was something within our experience. But isn't it also a questioning of reality at a very young age, an age at which the whole world was our reality, something we took for granted as being there regardless?

To my mind, that's quite sophisticated "reasoning" for a child. And I've read somewhere that this is not uncommon in young children. I'd like to take this a little further, because I personally can remember those experiences very well, & they do seem a bit odd - I couldn't read at thart age, there was no TV, & no-one read me bedtime or fairy stories.

So is this sort of thing an innate trait in the young? Something akin to Jung's theory of the collective mind or the collective consciousness? [It's many years since I've done any reading in psychology, my apologies in advance.] If this is so, then the possibility of our reality being a kind of matrix would appear to be innate in all of us. And maybe even increases probability.

I heart that there was some math-proof that the matrix (as in the movie's can't exist
maybe someone knows more about it?

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[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

There was an interesting topic about a "truth" one of our member experienced. The most disturbing thing is when he says to not believe him.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is one very profound thread whose ATS link you posted, Desmond.And even though the reading of it is frightening, it makes perfect sence to me - like it struch a chord within me.

Since you asked that first question about whether any of us has ever had a concept for which there were no [causal - my inclusion] influences, I've been thinking quite a bit about my very early doubts regarding reality. And I did propound the idea that this may be innate.

Originally posted by Bastet


So is this sort of thing an innate trait in the young? Something akin to Jung's theory of the collective mind or the collective consciousness? [It's many years since I've done any reading in psychology, my apologies in advance.] If this is so, then the possibility of our reality being a kind of matrix would appear to be innate in all of us. And maybe even increases probability.

This has all given me something to really think about.

[edit on 26/7/04 by Bastet]

I agree with you Bastet that confronting reality might be innate, and also something you do instinctivly.

Why most people loose this behavior with time I don't really know, but I would guess it is because our own existence as living beings is based upon accepting what our senses integrate. I find that drug use

Do you remember in the Matrix when Neo took the red pill to awake from the Matrix? He took the drug to change the perceptive of his existence.

This is interesting because it would suggest that drug use in your life will change your perception and lead you to awake from something.

Now, if you think about drugs, most comes from vegetal life (mushrooms, plants). On a competitive level, these vegetals wants you dead because they feed on your rotting corpse.
So, what if they produced toxines that once in our body, gives you a new perspective on reality that ultimately, makes you refute reality and therefore, die?

More soon...



[edit on 26-7-2004 by Desmond]

You've really started me pondering, Desmond. First of all, I wonder if that early childhood "fantasy" of mine [that reality only happened when I was there looking at it] - I wonder if that sort of thinking is universal & whether it was common also amongst tribal & indigenous peoples. If so, that would surely be strongly significant where the scope of this topic's concerned. But I'd have to know the accepted term for this before I could research it.

Regarding recreational drug use, well we know it has been practised globally, and also amongst so-called "uncivilised" tribal & indigenous peoples, with whatever was locally available, from fermented fruit to mushrooms & even reindeer urine. This brings me to my late father's recommended reading lists for me from when I was a teenager.

My father was born just prior to the Great Depression, the youngest of 10, in perhaps the worst slum in Scotland & left school at 13. He was pretty well self-educated, but he did achieve an engineering degree & learned the violin. He travelled & worked overseas extensively, & was a lifelong scholar who read widely, & that's an understatement. Hidebound & deeply conservative, a product of his times, or so I always believed - till after his death when I decided to read the remaining books on his list.

The highest recommendations were Huxley's books, & the one at the very top, heavily underlined, was "The Doors of Perception" . Imagine my astonishment when I finally read this book, & I've often wondered to no avail what message my father wished to convey.

Originally posted by Bastet
The highest recommendations were Huxley's books, & the one at the very top, heavily underlined, was "The Doors of Perception" . Imagine my astonishment when I finally read this book, & I've often wondered to no avail what message my father wished to convey.

Coming from your father, your quest for the truth will surely motivate you for years to come. Here we are today, asking ourselves the same questions Huxley did. I will look forward to this book as soon as I can.
I'll have to see if Huxley really did some thinking without prior influences.


Regarding drug use, it is recreational in a community context, but it becomes something more once someone use it as a tool to bring brave new perspectives to his thinking.
Unfortunately, this particular use can drive someone insane.





[edit on 26-7-2004 by Desmond]

I don't want you to be disapponted after reading "The Doors of Perception", Desmond. It's a very short book, and it relates Huxley's experimentation with "psychedelic" substances of those times, namely naturally-occurring ones, & how they altered & increased his powers of perception, He described his experiences to another person there at the time who made notes during it all.

The reason for my astonishment was that this book was so highly recommended to me by my law-abiding & deeply conservative father, a working-class self-educated man born around the time of World War I.

And No.2 on his list was Huxley's last book, "The Island".

These 2 should be interesting read.

Don't you think that Huxley's visionnary books had something to do with drugs and how his brain processed reality?
We are getting at Minority report now...

Huxley's a bit of a conundrum to me. He has been linked to the New World Order & has been directly linked to the Tavistock Institute. His most famous work is, of course, "Brave New World", a book I very much enjoyed reading BTW.

Read all three of them, & you be the judge. And if you can give me any insighjt into my father's recommendation of "The Doors of Perception", especially from a man of his background, I'd be most grateful.

BTW, I really disliked "Minority Report"!

Well i believe that we are all just made out of the same stuff everything in the universe is however we just vibrate at different frequencys. I think that if you could somehow lower the frequency of the vibration within your body the possibilities could be amazing. I think thats how people experience astral projection and stuff i also believe that there is paralell universes within our own however we cant see em cos we dont vibrate at the same level as them. This could also mean a lot of things like ghosts and aliens etc are just us accidentaly tapping into a different plane of exsistence. Maybe other species have been able to visit us as they have the knowledge to visit interdimensional by lowering their frequency. We are all made out of the same matter as is everything we know so should i not be able to just put my hand through my computer screen. Well no cos i have poisoned my brain having spent 30 years on this planet believing all that i see. Roll on death so i can see for sure. And as for time there is no such thing. Time is a man made object in reality there is no such thing as past or present or future everything is just now however we have convinced our minds to believe in time. Pathetic fake material bodys we are just a mind really nothing more and nothing else. true life is much more entertaining than the matrix. At least they knew they were being run by computers and robots. We dont know what runs our exsistance. isnt life beautiful.

I guess Im not alone

Ok so in a sense all my life I have been right. What we see and feel is nothing more than a grand illusion of what we have been taught to see. So in a sense when I flipped my truck two years ago and basically allowed my physical body to go limp and told myself this isnt going to hurt. I entered that realm which most cannot concieve. "and yes, I flipped 6 times down a hill and slid on the roof for half a football field with not even a scratch on me and I was not wearing a seatbelt either. I remeber telling myself this is not real, it will not hurt just let go and you will be fine. Well not for nothing I am still here typing what I am thinking or so it appears because we do not allow ourselves to think we can commincate by thought so this in fact is just a meduim to communicate "seeing my fingers hitting the keyboard". well enough said and thanks. I was starting to think I was going nuts.

Justmytype, you had a lucky escape & I do feel that this was partly due to your more or less relaxed state at the time. This in itself does not really prove anything other than that IMHO, but I'm in no way knocking your experience nor your interpretation of it.

thesaint, I have heard it said before that time does not exist, as you say in your post. I cannot conceive of such a premise. Certainly we use artificial measures of time. I'd be grateful if you or someone else could explain how time is an illusion of something that does not exist.