The Matrix may be reality

Originally posted by Bastet
Up until now, the theory of our universe that perturbed me most, went something like this - it is known that we humans are each of us hosts to microscopic creatures that "graze" on our skin cells. And the hypothesis was that we in turn are infinitisemally microscopic creatures grazing on a "giant's" skin, which we believe to be both our universe & our deity.

Also interesting. I have wondered this myself, and it has always made me question whether or not our deity is not just some microscopic creature grazing on the skin of a larger incomprehensible whole. And do we play God to the host of creatures that live off us? How far does the chain go?

Most importantly, why do you find this disturbing?

Originally posted by para
I have wondered this myself, and it has always made me question whether or not our deity is not just some microscopic creature grazing on the skin of a larger incomprehensible whole. And do we play God to the host of creatures that live off us? How far does the chain go?

Most importantly, why do you find this disturbing?

The idea disturbs me because the acceptance of it must surely negate most of what I have been taught regarding science, evolution & a vast amount of similar information.This would probably be no different to how people felt when they learned [or were allowed to learn] that the sun did not revolve around the earth, & that the earth was not in fact flat.

And so much more knowledge, information, &Y scientific "proofs" have proliferated since the days of Galileu, and I have spent most of my life n reading - & at my age, well I'll resent the fact that there will be not enough time left for me to satisfy my thirst for the new REAL knowledge. I don't know if that explains it well enough.

Plus, oh this is rather childish maybe, but I'd feel cheated or that I'd been duped. But of course I'd have to accept the truth.

It�s a little confusing because I don�t think there has been any scientific proofs about our relationship to God/the Deity of your choice. Is it disturbing possibly because it would prove the existence of a God?

Some would say that proving the existence of God would negate the possibility of evolution and many other scientific theories about the universe. Personally, I see no reason why that would have to be true. In the Bible it says that God created heaven and earth (not trying to spout Christian ideology here, bear with me). While there have been no proofs about the creation of the universe there have been ideas put forth. How hard is it to imagine that �God� is behind a scientifically plausible method of creation? In other words, we are told that God created the universe, we�re just not told how.

I�m not sure how that fits in with any other religions, but that�s the way I�ve always tried to look at it.

No, it wouldn't prove the existence of God at all as far as I'm concerned - how can you say that, unless of course this hypothetical giant on whose skin we grazed were really our deity. Or am I misunderstanding you there?

Actually, I'm an agnostic & I now prefer to disassociate myself with proof of, or faith in, a deity, feel I've spent more than enough time pondering & researching this!

As an aside, maybe I miss the point regarding the evolution v Creation theorisrs, because I cannot see why both theories can't co-exist side by side - if we take take the Bible story as a sort of parable.

Oh yes almost forgot, I looked up the Lacerta files - and again, I must be missing the point somewhere, as I cannot see any correlation between an interview with an ET & the topic in hand.

If anyone should press me on the reason I feel uncomfortable with this "multiverse" or virtual reality scenario, then I'm done for. I just don't fancy the idea at all - but from what I've read here so far, I get the impression that my impression of reality is valid, at least to me. To blazes with this "matrix" idea!

Bah, maybe I abstracted too far for my own good. I was taking the �grazing on the skin of God� quote to assume that the existence of God was a given in this situation. And I was probably taking the quote too figuratively.

No matter. The real important question is: when do I get to fly?

I have too from time to time thought of this concept that like we have cells each of those cells have structure our universe could be a cell and we are inside and then its apart of a much larger thing but the one thing I always have trouble grasping is how can this chain reaction of the biggest thing you can find there is always something bigger so id it infinite?

If this theory is true. Then I would think it would be possible to find a way to "bend" matter. Say I would be able to walk through a wall, and what not. This is mind boggling.

Ah WestPoint23, don't you remember having your brain bent by that concept when you were in hogh school? Like in geometry, when we learned that parallel lines were lines within the same plane that met in infinity.I couldn't grasp the idea then, & I'm no wiser now with it.

How on earth anyone thought up the idea of infinity is a mystery to me.But it evidently exists. And I doubt a science guru could explain this.

The "Matrix" explanation is closer to reality than most think...and i have to agree, it will be disturbing for many to comprehend...but for all of it's complexity, it is actually quite simple in it's conception.

ALL is energy...an all encompassing energy...it surrounds all things, it connects all...it IS all...

this is what everything is created from...and from this energy we have been Created...

All "reality" is how we as individuals percieve other energy around us...my reality is different from yours...etc..etc..etc...yet, there are still constants that must be maintained in order to allow acceptence by the human mind.

Imagine, if you will, a child born and not imprinted with the restraints of rote education, sociological pressures, or even the commonly accepted description of time...but one left to their own devices of their inner being, nurtured with unconditional love...and taught to follow their intuitions and listen to their inner voice...

this child would be "different" by standards expected in the commonly accepted reality...but yet, imagine how their reality would differ..and how much more they may know than we do...yet they would be existing within reality to all who saw them or heard them speak...

It is said there is a fine veil between life and death...quite possibly what is seen as "death" by many...is nothing more than an awakening to another "reality"...giving creedence to the idea of reincarnation. Our true spiritual selves will go through many "realities" before we return to our actual home.

What we see is not necessairly what truely is...

~oracle

The idea disturbs me because the acceptance of it must surely negate most of what I have been taught regarding science, evolution & a vast amount of similar information.This would probably be no different to how people felt when they learned [or were allowed to learn] that the sun did not revolve around the earth, & that the earth was not in fact flat.

There is no contradiction behind the simulation argument and what we have been taught about science. Science, and everything we know, is true, but it is the result of a simulation, played out by higher beings.

I guess God is just the person that created the simulation (as I create a computer game, for example). Maybe he is part of a simulation, too.

We exist only in the change we have created within our suroundings and the in the hearts and memories of people

I think a lot of people overlooked this post, so I'll quote it:

I know this might not really may be relivant with this thread, but I once saw something that said that instead of reality being what we are told its meant to be, each person creates a different vision of reality for themselves, thus meaning what a person looks like to me, might look different to someone else. I guess thats where the saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder could come from. I guess its just another take on reality thats all.

That answers the question of what you can do about, how it is possible, and where it is from. We created this reality through our beliefs. If we change, reality changes. There are many things to change though, the biggest one I believe is that space and time exist. Time is dependent on space, so if space doesn't exist, time doesn't. Yea, you age, because you beleive you do. As far as space, we actually see in 2d pictures and our manipulates it into 3d. I don't know all the details on why space wouldn't exist, but I can speculate a little bit. A) Its changes in energy amounts that we perceive as being movement in position. Well, thats all I could come up with for now, lol. I'll post some more as I get ideas.

Originally posted by Bastet
Ah WestPoint23, don't you remember having your brain bent by that concept when you were in hogh school? Like in geometry, when we learned that parallel lines were lines within the same plane that met in infinity.I couldn't grasp the idea then, & I'm no wiser now with it.

How on earth anyone thought up the idea of infinity is a mystery to me.But it evidently exists. And I doubt a science guru could explain this.

Ah yes I know the feeling I couldn't grasp the idea of something going on forever my mind kept thinking well how can there be some much space and what is on the out side also one thing that I quite don't get is when there was no time no light before the big bang how is that possible can something be made out of nothing

I thought about the "being a cell of a bigger being" thing too for a long time, but I couldn't accept the idea that we might be part of a giants fingertip picking his nose :@
(ps, yeah, I'm all real, one big chunk of hunk :p)

On a more serious side. It would be incredible to be able to send a probe out that goes fast enough to reach the end of our universe and look at it from the outside. Wonder what we'll see. Really, our imagination can't even grasp that.

I've said it before (I don't believe it, but well.. it's like saying disprove/prove God exists) but solipsism is a good answer to all of lifes questions.

Solipsism is the metaphysical belief that only oneself exists, and that "existence" just means being a part of one's own mental states - all objects, people, etc, that one experiences, are merely parts of one's own mind. One is like a God, creating the reality in which one exists. Solipsism is logically coherent, but not falsifiable, so it cannot be established (or disproved) by current modes of the scientific method.

A thought-experiment related to solipsism, although in principle distinct, is the Brain in a Vat, i.e. the view that "I" may be trapped within some utterly unknowable reality, so that everything I think I know is illusion.

Threads of thought similar to solipsism pervade much of eastern philosophy. Taoism and several interpretations of Buddhism, especially Zen, teach that drawing a distinction between self and universe is nonsensical and arbitrary, and merely an artifact of language rather than an inherent reality.

from en.wikipedia.org...

I really just end up getting confused on these kinds of thoughts.
Thanks matrix movies... and the last two sucked.

Yeah, they sucked, and be sure to read the 'ps' in my bio ... :p

If we are really in a matrix then I must be experiencing strange glitches in it from time to time. Even now I am having pc problems. I came here looking for one of those little windows that say what operating system you are using to see if something I saw was related to my pc problem. I saw a window (not on this site) that stated unknown operating system. Then I came here and saw an interesting thread under recents posts. It was titled something like "Bible code predicts Bush assasinated by Osama when he visits Jerusalem". However when I attempted to read it, I saw it said for moderators only, then I saw where it was in a trash bin. That's strange. Interesting to think that life could be a virtual reality. I'm ready for some cooler air. Let's alter the weather, just joking.



[Edited on 22-7-2004 by orionthehunter]

Knock Knock

Follow the white rabbit...

It's good to see that this topic is getting such enthusiastic replies. Many like it have been posted before but usually aren't accepted, even just theoretically, with such open imaginative minds. Personally, this new open mindedness to topics like this certainly shows promise!!

Here is something I'll add along these same lines which others might find interesting. It deals primarily with the idea that 'Reality' as we know it is 'All in the Mind', so to speak. It all came about one night while philosophizing with my g/f, which we do very often and for many hours on end, until we have basically unwound all 'Conceptual Reality' to the point where words no longer do us any good. Obviously I can't take it quite that far on here, but I will start it off and let those who wish to do so, continue on their own.

Part 1: Function of a Truth Table - Used to prove theorems of logic

X | Y | X & Y
T | T | True
T | F | False
F | T | False
F | F | False
(Basically, only when all the parts are True can the whole be True. Otherwise the whole is False.)

Part 2: The Questions or Problems Needing Proof
1. What Am I?
2. What Is Reality?
3. Is Reality Exist Independently?

Part 3: Definitions of Words & Parameters
Potential:
1.) Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent:
2.) Having possibility, capability, or power.

Realize:
1.) To comprehend completely or correctly.
2.) To bring into reality; make real.

Reality:
1.) The quality or state of being actual or true.
2.) The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
3.) That which exists objectively and in fact.

Consciousness:
1.) The state of being conscious; knowledge of one's own existence, condition, sensations, mental operations, acts, etc.
2.) Immediate knowledge or perception of the presence of any object, state, or sensation.

Part 4: The Logic Proofs
~ I Am Conscious. (Observer Observing) (T/F)
~ Consciousness 'Realizes Potential. (The Observation) (T/F)
~ Potential Realized 'IS' Reality. (Collapse of 'Wave Probability' to 'Particle Actuality'. (T/F)

Now, work and play with what this means. Please post your ideas too, I'd love to read them. Also expand upon this too if you'd like or if you think it's appropriate. As I said, this is just to get you started, however all the essential parts are here.

Here are some words of wisdom as well to keep in mind.
There can be no universe without the witness, there can be no witness without the universe.

In reality there is only perception. The perceiver and the perceived are conceptual, the fact of perceiving is actual. The Absolute is the birthplace of perceiving. It makes perception possible.

The moment you say "I am", the entire universe comes into being along with its creator.

There is only my-Self, Consciousness.

Neither your body nor you mind, nor even your consciousness is yourself.

When you realize that all is in your mind and that you are beyond the mind, that you are truly alone, then all is you.

The supreme state is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror. It is what is - the timeless reality, unbelievably hard and solid.

You are God, but you do not know it.

The Absolute gives birth to consciousness. All else is in consciousness.

Take a look at these Saturn pictures. They are just awe inspiring at there detail. Pictures of our universe like these make me believe in some natural order or inteligence at work in our universe. It is mind boggeling how such things can be created in nature.

ciclops.lpl.arizona.edu...