And so it begins. Radiation finally reaches my area //might get evacuated

reply to post by Foddy


here is where I get my news!

SEOUL, April 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea is restricting its citizens from traveling to some areas in Japan that are more than 30 kilometers away from the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant, the foreign ministry said Wednesday amid persistent fears of harmful radiation leaks.

South Korea has raised its travel alert on four areas beyond the plant's 30-km radius, placing a Level 3 'travel restriction' on Iitate village, the town of Kawamata and the cities of Tamura and Minamisoma, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade said in a release posted on its Web site. Five areas inside the 30-km radius are already under Level 3 restrictions, the second highest on a four-notch scale.

source

Well, Deja Vu, I hope you're washing your leafy vegetables and limiting your milk consumption. The US is sure a dangerous place to be these days! But I guess that's no more than you can expect from a scientist who only last year issued a report commissioned by anti-nuclear groups. And there's always going to be an audience for conspiracy theorists!

I guess I'd better go and put on my radiation suit now. I walked past a vegetable shop at lunchtime and might have picked up some rays.

Meantime, maybe YOU can explain to me why almost all the embassies which moved out of Tokyo and/or recommended their citizens not to travel to Tokyo have returned to the capital and removed that advice? Maybe you, like Okiecowboy, have some secret information the rest of us aren't privy to.

But I guess that's no more than you can expect from a scientist who only last year issued a report commissioned by anti-nuclear groups.

I find it odd and darkly amusing that you site his affiliation with 'anti nuclear groups' as a somehow valid and damning criticism, when the 'anti nuclear' position has been validated incontroveribly by this event.

Perhaps you trust TEPCO or the Japanese Government more?

reply to post by Neo_Serf


Maybe you would prefer to trust the US Government? Here is its latest advice to Americans in Japan, issued yesterday, and which reduces the warnings from previous levels:

japan.usembassy.gov...

You might care to note (but will probably ignore) the fact that "this assessment reflects inputs from our national laboratories as well as the unanimous opinion of the U.S. scientific experts on the ground in Japan."

Meantime, you guys, thousands of miles away, I guess, continue to know better! What is it that you've been told, I wonder that they don't know on the spot, in Japan? Please tell us, so that we can be better advised and make a decision as to what to do.

reply to post by Foddy


Until government sources begin to explain to the public the difference between 'internal' and 'external' emitters (google 'Petkau Effect', and 'bioaccumulation), and the difference between 'non ionizing' and 'ionizing' radiation, I will continue to regard any source neglecting these key factors with the proper contempt and eyerolling they deserve. And I will continue to take all steps within my means to protect myself, regardless of the shill's cry that 'the effects of fallout outside of Japan are negligible'.

Heres an independant source you might find informative: (which you may or may not ignore)

enenews.com...

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
reply to post by Foddy

 

Until government sources begin to explain to the public the difference between 'internal' and 'external' emitters (google 'Petkau Effect', and 'bioaccumulation), and the difference between 'non ionizing' and 'ionizing' radiation, I will continue to regard any source neglecting these key factors with the proper contempt and eyerolling they deserve. And I will continue to take all steps within my means to protect myself, regardless of the shill's cry that 'the effects of fallout outside of Japan are negligible'.

Heres an independant source you might find informative: (which you may or may not ignore)

enenews.com...

More news from the US Government:
search.japantimes.co.jp...
From which I quote:

"People outside the evacuation zone are "highly unlikely" to be exposed to harmful radiation even if there are disruptions at the plant, the advisory said."
You, presumably a non-scientist, continue to know better. And maybe you, since on-one else has replied, can explain why foreign embassies in Tokyo are relaxing their recommendations and returning to Tokyo.

And your 'independant' (I presume you mean 'independant'?) source is an extreme anti-nuclear blog!! Does it report the US government relaxation of recommendations? Of course not - it's 100% negative news.

Hey, Okiecowboy, the Fukushima plant may not be totally closed down for months. That gives the radiation plenty of time to spread to wherever you are (I guess Oklahoma?), since you clearly think the US West Coast is already in danger. I guess you'd better pick up sticks and move to somewhere really safe (like the Ukraine, maybe?).

When I first posted here - I think I found this site when looking for people who had cut and run from Japan in the mistaken belief that it was dangerous to be in Tokyo - I just thought it was a genuine discussion site. Now, I've found out that it's a haven for conspiracy theorists, and everything becomes much clearer! I was expecting some rational arguments with a scientific base, but it's clear I'm going to be disappointed.

And, finally, Hillary Clinton is now infected too, after her trip to Tokyo, so those of you who don't like her may be able to get rid of her soon.

Originally posted by Foddy

When I first posted here - I think I found this site when looking for people who had cut and run from Japan in the mistaken belief that it was dangerous to be in Tokyo - I just thought it was a genuine discussion site.

And, finally, Hillary Clinton is now infected too, after her trip to Tokyo, so those of you who don't like her may be able to get rid of her soon.

Why, were you trying to hunt them down like rabbits and try them for treason??? As far as Hillary, she won't be there long enough to bio-accumulate....:lol

Here is some real up to date info for you guys

japan.failedrobot.com...
Check the bottom for real time tweets from Japan


community.pachube.com...

eq.wide.ad.jp...

www.acro.eu.org...

Originally posted by Foddy
Hey, Okiecowboy, the Fukushima plant may not be totally closed down for months. That gives the radiation plenty of time to spread to wherever you are (I guess Oklahoma?), since you clearly think the US West Coast is already in danger. I guess you'd better pick up sticks and move to somewhere really safe (like the Ukraine, maybe?).

When I first posted here - I think I found this site when looking for people who had cut and run from Japan in the mistaken belief that it was dangerous to be in Tokyo - I just thought it was a genuine discussion site. Now, I've found out that it's a haven for conspiracy theorists, and everything becomes much clearer! I was expecting some rational arguments with a scientific base, but it's clear I'm going to be disappointed.

And, finally, Hillary Clinton is now infected too, after her trip to Tokyo, so those of you who don't like her may be able to get rid of her soon.

Hey Foddy,here's some facts. Sleep on this. Seriously, for those OP's that think living near a nuclear reactor is perfectly safe, and insults others for what they call "fear-mongering", take a look at this link www.bloomberg.com... and see why there is so much so-called "fear-mongering". This is one of many reports actually based in facts! Think again before you try to silence the "canary in the coal mine" with insults.

Japan Nuclear Disaster Caps Decades Of Faked Reports, Accidents is the report the link takes you to.
edit on 17-4-2011 by RoyalBlue because: (no reason given)

Hi Royal Blue
Thanks for the Bloomberg site. A pity it was dated 18th March and not 18th April. If the latter, it might have given us some updated news.

Meantime, I'm still waiting for somebody (anybody!) to tell me why almost all the foreign embassies in Tokyo which relocated temporarily to Osaka or Kyoto or Kobe have now returned to Tokyo, and why they have virtually all (I haven't checked every single one, but certainly the major countries) relaxed their recommendations to their own citizens living outside the Fukushima exclusion zones? I'm intrigued to know what some of you seem to know which these governments (and their embassies on the ground in Japan) clearly don't.

Originally posted by Foddy
Hey, Okiecowboy, the Fukushima plant may not be totally closed down for months. That gives the radiation plenty of time to spread to wherever you are (I guess Oklahoma?), since you clearly think the US West Coast is already in danger. I guess you'd better pick up sticks and move to somewhere really safe (like the Ukraine, maybe?).

When I first posted here - I think I found this site when looking for people who had cut and run from Japan in the mistaken belief that it was dangerous to be in Tokyo - I just thought it was a genuine discussion site. Now, I've found out that it's a haven for conspiracy theorists, and everything becomes much clearer! I was expecting some rational arguments with a scientific base, but it's clear I'm going to be disappointed.

You actually admit you came here to hunt down, ("look for") " people who had cut and run from Japan", and then have the gall to criticise a conspiracy site for being a haven for conspiracy theorists ...

One conspiracy mentioned was that certain Japanese nationals were hunting down those who left Japan in the wake of this catastrophe. Thanks for confirming it.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by Foddy
Hey, Okiecowboy, the Fukushima plant may not be totally closed down for months. That gives the radiation plenty of time to spread to wherever you are (I guess Oklahoma?), since you clearly think the US West Coast is already in danger. I guess you'd better pick up sticks and move to somewhere really safe (like the Ukraine, maybe?).

When I first posted here - I think I found this site when looking for people who had cut and run from Japan in the mistaken belief that it was dangerous to be in Tokyo - I just thought it was a genuine discussion site. Now, I've found out that it's a haven for conspiracy theorists, and everything becomes much clearer! I was expecting some rational arguments with a scientific base, but it's clear I'm going to be disappointed.

You actually admit you came here to hunt down, ("look for") " people who had cut and run from Japan", and then have the gall to criticise a conspiracy site for being a haven for conspiracy theorists ...

One conspiracy mentioned was that certain Japanese nationals were hunting down those who left Japan in the wake of this catastrophe. Thanks for confirming it.

More bizarre imagination! Since when does "look for" equal "hunt down"? Any normal person reading what I actually wrote, reading the whole post in context, would realise that what I wanted to do (and actually said!) was to have a genuine discussion with people who had left Japan (and explain to them that it is quite safe to come back, to the Tokyo area, at least). And what do you think the Japanese 'conspirators' you mention were going to do - physically leave Japan and 'hunt down' people who had left the country? I mean, seriously?

By the way, is it criticism to say that discovering the fact that this is a conspiracy site explained to me why there was a lack of rational and scientific debate?

Let me say it again: as endorsed by virtually every foreign government represented in Japan, it is quite safe to come back to the Tokyo area.

And, finally, I'm not Japanese.

reply to post by Foddy


According to latest information from both TEPCO and the Japanese government, it will be 6 to 9 months before there is any decrease in the amount of radiation, which includes aerosolised plutonium isotopes from the spent fuel rods, which include MOX fuel which is made with plutonium.

Soon the wet season will begin, which will swing the winds southward and carry this fallout over TOKYO for months.

Anyone returning to Tokyo now would be an idiot. Anyone trying to talk people into returning to Tokyo is attempting murder.

One has to ask why someone claiming to not even be Japanese would be "looking for" people who have left and trying to "explain to them that it is quite safe to come back".

reply to post by Kailassa


Kailassa
More bizarre nonsense mixed with out-and-out lies! I really wonder where you get your information from - I guess maybe from other bloggers who, like you, seem to want to paint the situation in the worst possible light?

The rainy season in the Kanto area (which includes Tokyo) does not start 'soon'. It lasts very roughly from about mid June to mid July; it starts earlier in Okinawa (over 1,500 km to the south) and moves slowly northwards (but doesn't affect Hokkaido in the extreme north). During the rainy season (and summer) the wind does NOT blow southwards. In fact it's almost the direct opposite, being mainly from the south or south-east. You can check this website here:

countrystudies.us...

from which I quote:

"The climate from June to September is marked by hot, wet weather brought by tropical airflows from the Pacific Ocean and Southeast Asia. These airflows are full of moisture and deposit substantial amounts of rain when they reach land. There is a marked rainy season, beginning in early June and continuing for about a month. It is followed by hot, sticky weather.

Next, plutonium, even in aerolised form is heavy, and does not travel far on the wind at all.

Finally, maybe you (since no-one else has so far) can explain to me why virtually all the foreign embassies which left Tokyo temporarily (most, such as the US and UK didn't move) have moved back to Tokyo and why they have relaxed their travel recommendations. I'm still waiting to hear what information you guys have which all these foreign government clearly don't. Maybe it's because you've discovered that the wind is going to blow in the opposite direction this year?

And, finally, since you seem to regard being in Tokyo as a death sentence, what are you doing about it? I presume you will be writing letters to all the major newspapers in Japan? If you do, here's a tip for you: check your facts before you do (when the rainy season starts and which way the winds blow). Otherwise you risk looking very stupid indeed!

Originally posted by Foddy
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Kailassa
More bizarre nonsense mixed with out-and-out lies! I really wonder where you get your information from - I guess maybe from other bloggers who, like you, seem to want to paint the situation in the worst possible light?

The rainy season in the Kanto area (which includes Tokyo) does not start 'soon'. It lasts very roughly from about mid June to mid July; it starts earlier in Okinawa (over 1,500 km to the south) and moves slowly northwards (but doesn't affect Hokkaido in the extreme north). During the rainy season (and summer) the wind does NOT blow southwards. In fact it's almost the direct opposite, being mainly from the south or south-east. You can check this website here:
countrystudies.us...
from which I quote:
"The climate from June to September is marked by hot, wet weather brought by tropical airflows from the Pacific Ocean and Southeast Asia. These airflows are full of moisture and deposit substantial amounts of rain when they reach land. There is a marked rainy season, beginning in early June and continuing for about a month. It is followed by hot, sticky weather.

The wet season brings tropical cyclones. In that area the cyclones swing the winds around, and will bring fallout from Fukushima down over Tokyo.

Average starting and ending dates of the rainy season: Kanto region(incl. Tokyo) June 8, July 20

You might not call that soon, but I do.

Next, plutonium, even in aerolised form is heavy, and does not travel far on the wind at all.

I guess you don't actually read posts in a thread, or you wouldn't be spouting that oft-repeated fallacy.

When particles are small enough, the weight of the substance is no longer relevant to its suspension in the atmosphere.

There is still plutonium in the atmosphere from bomb tests. These tiny particles continually settle and then get drawn up into the atmosphere again.

Sub-micron particles exhibit gas-like behaviour


Plutonium in rain:

Geochemical Journal, Vol.21, pp. 51 to 57, 1987Oxidation States of Fallout

Plutonium in Mediterranean Rain and Seawater

The measurements of the oxidation states of fallout plutonium in rainwater collected at Monaco indicate that plutonium exists predominantly in the higher oxidation states [Pu(V) and Pu(VI)]. The results obtained show that the percentage of the higher valency fraction of plutonium ranges from 38% to 89% of the total soluble plutonium in rain. The percentage tends to be lower when the storage time before the chemical treatment becomes longer. A thermodynamical computation supports these findings.

The occurrence of plutonium in the higher oxidation states in rain is considered to be one of the major causes of the characteristic geochemical stability of fallout plutonium observed in the Mediterranean Sea.

World-wide atmospheric dispersal of plutonium:

Deposition and accumulation of plutonium isotopes in Antarctica

DATA on the deposition of plutonium isotopes are presented here from the atmosphere at Dome C (123°10'E, 74°39'S; 3,214m elevation) on the high Antarctic plateau. Plutonium isotopes are among the anthropogenic chemicals that have become global contaminants and it is, therefore, important to gain a historical perspective to their worldwide dispersion. The analysis of successive layers of permanent snow fields permits the determination of both present and historical fluxes of anthropogenic chemicals and other contaminants that are dispersed through the atmosphere.

Finally, maybe you (since no-one else has so far) can explain to me why virtually all the foreign embassies which left Tokyo temporarily (most, such as the US and UK didn't move) have moved back to Tokyo and why they have relaxed their travel recommendations. I'm still waiting to hear what information you guys have which all these foreign government clearly don't. Maybe it's because you've discovered that the wind is going to blow in the opposite direction this year?

I guess you believe governments always act in the best interests of all their citizens.

It's a case of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." If the American government believes the agreements they're making with Japan are to America's advantage, they'll gladly subject some of their citizens to an increased risk of cancer to achieve them.

And, finally, since you seem to regard being in Tokyo as a death sentence, what are you doing about it? I presume you will be writing letters to all the major newspapers in Japan? If you do, here's a tip for you: check your facts before you do (when the rainy season starts and which way the winds blow). Otherwise you risk looking very stupid indeed!

Not everyone in Tokyo will die, but living there will increase a person's chance of dying of cancer or heart failure, (a known effect of radiation,) and increase the chances of people, particularly children, getting thyroid cancer and abnormalities.

The way to look stupid here is to try and persuade people there is no risk involved in returning to Tokyo.
Radioactive contamination builds up, and those four busted reactors will be spewing poisons for many years, if you believe scientists, or at least 6 - 9 months if you are naive enough to believe the Japanese government.

In a couple of months water from the now radioactive ocean will be picking up the radioactive contaminants now spewing into the atmosphere and pouring them down all over Japan.

Enjoy drinking radioactive water and eating radioactive produce grown in radioactive soils. Perhaps you'd like some radioactive milk to feed to your baby.

reply to post by Kailassa

This is just more increasingly bizarre fear-mongering and inaccurate nonsense. The typhoon season in the North and East of Japan is mainly concentrated in September, with some also occasionally in August. Typhoons pick up whatever water they pick up way down south in the Pacific, not anywhere in the immediate vicinity of Fukushima, and the path of typhoons hitting this area is generally from south curving away to the north-east (and definitely not in the opposite direction). Please check it out.

And this will educate you about plutonium at Fukushima:

mitnse.com...

From which I quote:

"Whichever route led to the disposition of plutonium on the reactor site, it would be difficult for such plutonium to be transported over great distances. Its high mass means that it is not easily aerosolized, even by fire. Mention has been made of the fact that plutonium will, under the right conditions, burn. However, this burning occurs during plutonium metal’s conversion to plutonium oxide. As the plutonium within each reactor is already in an oxide form, it has no such tendency to burn. Finally, plutonium is not very water-soluble. Under optimal conditions, the solubility of plutonium metal in water is around 55 microgram/L. The solubility of plutonium oxide is even lower."

It seems that you have clearly made up your mind on the subject and won't believe anything any government tells you (but have no problem in believing what someone writes in a blog - I presume that's the source of your statement that the prevailing wind in the rainy season in Japan blows southwards!!). On the other hand, if you believe everything that you're saying, it must be difficult to find anywhere safe to live in the world!

Finally, you are welcome to carry on spouting this nonsense and I am completely happy (unless and until my Embassy here tells me it's not safe to do so) to stay in Japan.

reply to post by Foddy


I guess you haven't noticed the uncovered fuel rods burning ....

But go on spreading your propaganda. Some people tell me that's quite a lucrative passtime.

Originally posted by Kailassa
reply to post by Foddy

 

I guess you haven't noticed the uncovered fuel rods burning ....

But go on spreading your propaganda. Some people tell me that's quite a lucrative passtime.

I looked out of my window this morning, but, from a safe distance of over 150 miles, I wasn't able to notice anything of the sort.

I guess you mean pastime?? That sounds like another conspiracy theory or urban myth, but if you can tell me how I can earn money out of doing what I am at the moment, I would be happy to hear. In these days of a continuing and unnecessarily strong Japanese yen, every penny helps.