Signs From Above - Another Look

reply to post by hawaii50th
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Today, the only things that harass people is other people that believe in God and want to alert others to what prophesy teaches

.....and telemarketers.

Essentially, being harassed by preaching Christians does compare to telemarketers. Both try and sell you something that you don't want at a time and place where they weren't invited to do so.

I hasten to emphasize the word "preaching", as a reasonable sharing and discussion of beliefs is in no way an act of harassment.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th
[more

Today, the only things that harass people is other people that believe in God and want to alert others to what prophesy teaches

.....and telemarketers.

Essentially, being harassed by preaching Christians does compare to telemarketers. Both try and sell you something that you don't want at a time and place where they weren't invited to do so.

I hasten to emphasize the word "preaching", as a reasonable sharing and discussion of beliefs is in no way an act of harassment.

Yes, telemarketers but they call you on the phone which makes it very annoying, at least on a forum you can either be involved or just not take part.
Imagine through all history, if there were never a bugle call of warning to what might be an attack, or a coming catastrophe, some impending disaster how many would have perished.
It's not like anyone has to take heed to any call, but what if only one person did, and what if it was true?
Everything is not just cut and dried simple. All I know is things aren't very good in the world. And I find it very strange that there is a book, and I've checked around and read one that was a 150 years old, I wanted to see if what I was reading today compared to what was written back then. And what I found was it was the same written 150 years ago as it is written today. Nothing was changed, the main crucial messages were still the same. I don't know about you, but I found that to be most amazing. I also got a glimpse of some of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they too were proof that what was written long ago in that book has much relevance.

This is a forum that invites anyone to share views and news. And it has always been where you get some that believe in this and some that believe in that. And some that believe but still like to cut apart what others believe the same as them. It's a forum of many different subjects.

And really, preaching can be of any subject or topic, it's not just limited to Christianity. People come on here and preach on UFO, paranormal, mysticism, shamanism, politics, diehards that still love Obama, conspiracies, and on and on.
Christianity today is getting closer to being compared to when the blacks were fighting for civil rights back in the sixties. Prejudice by others is growing against Christians, and it's only going to get worse.

reply to post by hawaii50th


You wrote:

["A typical reaction from a bleeding heart liberal that has no foundation that will stand the test of time.
It's okay, what you say, cause in the end you will find, that you've been mistaken, all this time."]

What's outside your totalitarian holy self-contained bubble is obviously 'bleeding-heart liberalism', just as alleged jewish-communism was outside the nazi-bubble and individualism/the principle of ownership was outside the Stalin bubble.

So you suggest, that society is run along your lines? It has been tried, and the result belongs amongst the top ten catastrophes in known history.

As to 'foundations'. A collection of fictive fables is a 'foundation'? Only for people with your type of mindset.

And you try to validate your postulates referring to things, which haven't happened yet. Doesn't convince me.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

You wrote:

["A typical reaction from a bleeding heart liberal that has no foundation that will stand the test of time.
It's okay, what you say, cause in the end you will find, that you've been mistaken, all this time."]

What's outside your totalitarian holy self-contained bubble is obviously 'bleeding-heart liberalism', just as alleged jewish-communism was outside the nazi-bubble and individualism/the principle of ownership was outside the Stalin bubble.

So you suggest, that society is run along your lines? It has been tried, and the result belongs amongst the top ten catastrophes in known history.

As to 'foundations'. A collection of fictive fables is a 'foundation'? Only for people with your type of mindset.

And you try to validate your postulates referring to things, which haven't happened yet. Doesn't convince me.

There's no need to convince you of anything. You have it all figured out, that is for yourself anyway.
Luke 8:12 (Amplified Bible)
12 Those along the traveled road are the people who have heard; then the devil comes and carries away the message out of their hearts, that they may not believe (acknowledge Me as their Savior and devote themselves to Me) and be saved [here and hereafter].

Event the demons believe and fear the Lord.
Matthew 8:30-32 (Amplified Bible)
30 Now at some distance from there a drove of many hogs was grazing.
31 And the demons begged Him, If You drive us out, send us into the drove of hogs.
32 And He said to them, Begone! So they came out and went into the hogs, and behold, the whole drove rushed down the steep bank into the sea and died in the water.

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel.
— Galatians 1:6

I watched a very famous preacher being interviewed awhile ago on television. When the topic of sin came up, the preacher said, "I never talk about sin. I never use the word 'sin,' because people already know they are sinners. I am not here to beat people down. I just want to lift them up." However, I don't think that most people know they are sinners. And our job is not just to lift people up; it is to point them to Christ. So we have to use the word "sin."

There is a counterfeit gospel. The apostle Paul wrote to the churches of Galatia, "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel" (Galatians 1:6). Just because someone uses the term "gospel" doesn't mean he or she is referring to the genuine gospel. Even if someone claims they are preaching the gospel, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the real gospel. For the gospel to be genuine, certain things must be in place. And one of those things is the acknowledgment that everyone has sinned. As 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

The only solution for our sin being removed is the cross. If the cross is not proclaimed, then it is not the gospel. Any proper presentation of the gospel includes the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul wrote to the believers at Corinth, "For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:2).

Whenever there is the genuine, there also will be the counterfeit. And the devil has his fake version of just about everything—even the gospel.

reply to post by hawaii50th


You wrote:

["There's no need to convince you of anything."]

That's a relief.

Quote: ["You have it all figured out, that is for yourself anyway."]

Dude, you're the one with the absolute absolutes, not me. How could I possibly have 'it all figured out' without absolute absolutes?

Quote: ["Luke 8:12 (Amplified Bible)
12 Those along the traveled road are the people who have heard; then the devil comes and carries away the message out of their hearts, that they may not believe (acknowledge Me as their Savior and devote themselves to Me) and be saved [here and hereafter]."]

Amplified answer:

That was the quickest change of mind (awareness, consciousness, also a buddhistic concept), I (me. Bogomil) have ever been exposed (met) to . You DO try to convince (change my opinions in your direction) me (me) after all.

Quote: [" Event the demons believe and fear the Lord."]

I'm eagerly awaiting your proof for this.

Quote: ["Matthew 8:30-32 (Amplified Bible)
30 Now at some distance from there a drove of many hogs was grazing."]

This is something I have observed myself on occasion also, so it could have happened this way without any undue strech of imagination.

Quote: ["31 And the demons begged Him, If You drive us out, send us into the drove of hogs."]

Being an active 'Animals' Rights' person, this doesn't make your religious fantasies more attractive to me.

Quote: [" 32 And He said to them, Begone! So they came out and went into the hogs, and behold, the whole drove rushed down the steep bank into the sea and died in the water."]

Did the demons drown together with the hogs, or only the hogs? It is my impression, that demons are kind of immaterial, so they can't drown. In which case some hogs were killed for no purpose, some family lost their animals and the demons most likely went back into their original human hosts again.

But your demonology is without doubt better than mine, though I have met a few eye to eye (which ofcourse doesn't go up against what's written).

The reason I'm asking is, that these complex religious matters are something everybody ought to know about. Besides your bible-citing fascinates me no end, as your endurance and perseverance by itself is a sign from above.

reply to post by hawaii50th


From your next post.

You wrote:

["I watched a very famous preacher being interviewed awhile ago on television."]

This definitely qualifies you.

Quote: ["...the preacher said, "I never talk about sin. I never use the word 'sin,' because people already know they are sinners."]

Obviously the poor man had never heard about me.

Quote: ["However, I don't think that most people know they are sinners."]

Nope.

Quote: ["And our job is not just to lift people up; it is to point them to Christ. So we have to use the word "sin."]

Your eagerness betrays you. First you have to demonstrate, that the bible isn't non-sense.

Quote: ["Just because someone uses the term "gospel" doesn't mean he or she is referring to the genuine gospel."]

With 34.000 different christian denominations, that's a reasonable conclusion.

Quote: ["Even if someone claims they are preaching the gospel, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the real gospel."]

Except you ofcourse.

Quote: ["And one of those things is the acknowledgment that everyone has sinned. As 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."]

I MAY have mentioned the concept circle-argumentation to you once or twice before. E.g. as in scripture proves scripture. But don't let such details bother you.

Quote: ["The only solution for our sin being removed is the cross."]

That goes without saying.

Quote: ["If the cross is not proclaimed, then it is not the gospel. Any proper presentation of the gospel includes the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ."]

As above, the logic is obvious.

Quote: ["Paul wrote to the believers at Corinth, "For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:2)."]

My only objection is, that Paul was a fraud.

Quote: ["Whenever there is the genuine, there also will be the counterfeit."]

True. There's reality, and then there's christianity.

Quote: ["And the devil has his fake version of just about everything—even the gospel."]

If there's anything to your fantasies, the devil WROTE the original bible. Why would he make a counterfeit one also?

reply to post by hawaii50th

I watched a very famous preacher being interviewed awhile ago on television. When the topic of sin came up, the preacher said, "I never talk about sin. I never use the word 'sin,' because people already know they are sinners. I am not here to beat people down. I just want to lift them up." However, I don't think that most people know they are sinners. And our job is not just to lift people up; it is to point them to Christ. So we have to use the word "sin."

In your own understanding, what exactly is sin, what action constitutes a sin, and what action, if any, is free of sin?

reply to post by bogomil


I don't understand why your relieved, your the one that popped in and started denouncing Christianity. No body came to you asking. You just wanted yourself to be heard and spread your views, and preaching anti-Christian ideas.
Your free to believe what you want in with your harden anti-Christian attitude.
Your just the type that has to have the last say, even if it has no merit, or nothing to back it up.
This is just typical anti common sense. And of course you will try to have again the last say, but it will be futile on your part. And in the end one day you will know the truth.

Have a good day

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

I watched a very famous preacher being interviewed awhile ago on television. When the topic of sin came up, the preacher said, "I never talk about sin. I never use the word 'sin,' because people already know they are sinners. I am not here to beat people down. I just want to lift them up." However, I don't think that most people know they are sinners. And our job is not just to lift people up; it is to point them to Christ. So we have to use the word "sin."

In your own understanding, what exactly is sin, what action constitutes a sin, and what action, if any, is free of sin?

Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed, Laziness. I think they all speak for themselves, for no one is not guilty of any of these.

reply to post by hawaii50th


You wrote:

["I don't understand why your relieved, your the one that popped in and started denouncing Christianity. No body came to you asking. You just wanted yourself to be heard and spread your views, and preaching anti-Christian ideas."]

I'm not denouncing christianity in general. I'm denouncing your version and elsewhere similar invasive extremist-christian versions.

Quote: ["Your free to believe what you want in with your harden anti-Christian attitude."]

That's almost liberalism.

Quote: ["Your just the type that has to have the last say, ...]

You have already mentioned this before, and also explained to me, that it's typical of such liberals as me (as an explanation).

Quote: [".....or nothing to back it up."]

You could upgrade your communication skills to actually relating to the important part of my posts, instead of preaching. Maybe some upbacking would have emerged then.

Quote: ["This is just typical anti common sense."]

Actually I prefer science, logic or an unbiased comparative study of a subject. Common sense is a rather vague concept.

Quote: ["And of course you will try to have again the last say, but it will be futile on your part."]

Futile according to what criteria?

Quote: ["And in the end one day you will know the truth."]

I'm waiting for that day. I would love to know the truth.

reply to post by hawaii50th

In your own understanding, what exactly is sin, what action constitutes a sin, and what action, if any, is free of sin?

Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed, Laziness. I think they all speak for themselves, for no one is not guilty of any of these.

OK, but this only answers the second of my three questions. I would also further ask, what about the sin against the holy ghost? Is that covered by the Big Seven?

The reason I am interested to know what action is free of sin relates to Jesus' admonition. "go, and sin no more".

reply to post by hawaii50th


My questions to you about sin relate to the statement you made here:

Even if someone claims they are preaching the gospel, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the real gospel. For the gospel to be genuine, certain things must be in place. And one of those things is the acknowledgment that everyone has sinned.

What I am hoping to understand is what kind of christian gospel exists which does not aknowledge that we have sinned, according to your definition of sin.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

In your own understanding, what exactly is sin, what action constitutes a sin, and what action, if any, is free of sin?

Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed, Laziness. I think they all speak for themselves, for no one is not guilty of any of these.

OK, but this only answers the second of my three questions. I would also further ask, what about the sin against the holy ghost? Is that covered by the Big Seven?

The reason I am interested to know what action is free of sin relates to Jesus' admonition. "go, and sin no more".

Grieving the Holy Spirit, meaning don't sadden, make Him feel annoyed, offend God right to the end of redemption. So, if someone dies and still grieved the Holy Spirit right to death, rejecting God right to the very end of ones life, would mean the souls eternal separation from God.
But say some one is at the point of death, and they honestly didn't realize, and God knows (everyone's heart) that God loves everyone and is willing to forgive anyone right until the point of death, that person can be forgiven.
Ephesians 4:30 (Amplified Bible)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God [do not offend or vex or sadden Him], by Whom you were sealed (marked, branded as God's own, secured) for the day of redemption (of final deliverance through Christ from evil and the consequences of sin).
Rejecting God right to death would be the ultimate, but even to death, God would come to anyone to give them that chance in a personal revelation where no one else would see it happening except for that individual that's dying. Some that would be sensitive spiritually would know in their heart and spirit that the person dying made that connection with God and they them self being spiritually sensitive to God would be at peace knowing that the dying one is saved.

Yes it would be covered, but it is more of a personal sin between you and God and it's one that grieves God dearly.

Hope you can understand my explanation.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

My questions to you about sin relate to the statement you made here:

Even if someone claims they are preaching the gospel, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the real gospel. For the gospel to be genuine, certain things must be in place. And one of those things is the acknowledgment that everyone has sinned.

What I am hoping to understand is what kind of christian gospel exists which does not acknowledge that we have sinned, according to your definition of sin.

We have all fell short and have sinned, none of us are not guilty of sin. That is why Jesus Christ died on the cross, He took all the sins of the world upon Himself as a sacrifice, He became the sacrificial lamb. So that through believing in Him we can be forgiven of all our sins. When we accept that, we become free of the eternal death which is the soul being separated from God at our physical death.
We will not be perfect until we go through a transformation after death, on the day of the great white throne judgment, then we will be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
But everyday that we live here on earth, we always have to pray to God at days end for our failings, and we always do this in Jesus name. This we persevere in faith till the end of our lives, this is His promise, this is what it means to be saved.

reply to post by hawaii50th

Grieving the Holy Spirit, meaning don't sadden, make Him feel annoyed, offend God right to the end of redemption. So, if someone dies and still grieved the Holy Spirit right to death, rejecting God right to the very end of ones life, would mean the souls eternal separation from God.
But say some one is at the point of death, and they honestly didn't realize, and God knows (everyone's heart) that God loves everyone and is willing to forgive anyone right until the point of death, that person can be forgiven.

OK, so where do some of the other biblical teachings fit in with this? For example, your heart is where your treasure lies, and it is easier for a camel (rope) to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?

If a Christian loves his children dearly, say, if that is where his strongest attachments lie, then how can he still go to God? If a Christian is attached to his material wealth, then how can he "pass through the eye of the needle" to reach the kingdom of God?

I am not expecting you to provide me with the answers, only raising some questions which come to a rational mind.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Jesus came and told us that if you believe there is any other authority above your own knowing then you have sinned. A misjudgment.

reply to post by mysticnoon


The meaning behind Jesus saying 'go and sin no more' was that if his teachings or message was realized/understood that there is no authority above you, you had made a mistake to give your power away, this was a mistake, a sin.

Your heart is beating without you, so what is beating your heart? Look for the source of you and the treasure will be found.
A rich man is a person who cherishes things of the material kind. The one who believes that things are primary, will not see that consciousness is primary.
See that you do not appear in the world. The world appears in you.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Grieving the Holy Spirit, meaning don't sadden, make Him feel annoyed, offend God right to the end of redemption. So, if someone dies and still grieved the Holy Spirit right to death, rejecting God right to the very end of ones life, would mean the souls eternal separation from God.
But say some one is at the point of death, and they honestly didn't realize, and God knows (everyone's heart) that God loves everyone and is willing to forgive anyone right until the point of death, that person can be forgiven.

OK, so where do some of the other biblical teachings fit in with this? For example, your heart is where your treasure lies, and it is easier for a camel (rope) to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?

If a Christian loves his children dearly, say, if that is where his strongest attachments lie, then how can he still go to God? If a Christian is attached to his material wealth, then how can he "pass through the eye of the needle" to reach the kingdom of God?

I am not expecting you to provide me with the answers, only raising some questions which come to a rational mind.

As for, "your heart is where your treasure lies" you need to read what it says before and after that part.
Luke 12:32-36 (Amplified Bible)
32 Do not be seized with alarm and struck with fear, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom!
33 Sell what you possess and give donations to the poor; provide yourselves with purses and handbags that do not grow old, an unfailing and inexhaustible treasure in the heavens, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
35 Keep your loins girded and your lamps burning,
36 And be like men who are waiting for their master to return home from the marriage feast, so that when he returns from the wedding and comes and knocks, they may open to him immediately.

Either your materialistic and will cherish things that eventually waste away or you are spiritual and believe and have faith in the Master and the rewards of heaven which will never decay or waste away. That's what that means.

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven? Again we need to read what it says before and after in those verses.

Luke 18:20-27 (Amplified Bible)
20 You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not witness falsely, honor your father and your mother.
21 And he replied, All these I have kept from my youth.
22 And when Jesus heard it, He said to him, One thing you still lack. Sell everything that you have and divide [the money] among the poor, and you will have [rich] treasure in heaven; and come back [and] follow Me [become My disciple, join My party, and accompany Me].
23 But when he heard this, he became distressed and very sorrowful, for he was rich--exceedingly so.
24 Jesus, observing him, said, How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to enter through a needle's eye than [for] a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
26 And those who heard it said, Then who can be saved?
27 But He said, What is impossible with men is possible with God.

A rich man is attached to his wealth, materialistic things which blinds the heart to what really matters most of all which is his soul, life and love for himself and others, And especially to worship God who blesses all.
So it is not a literal to say that it is easier for the camel to go through the eye of a needle, it's a metaphor explaining how hard it is for the materially rich to give up those things and to worship God instead.
Wealth has a way of changing people, and I'm sure you've must of seen it happen or know someone it happened to.

If a Christian loves his children dearly, say, if that is where his strongest attachments lie, then how can he still go to God? If a Christian is attached to his material wealth, then how can he "pass through the eye of the needle" to reach the kingdom of God?

Of course we all love our children, but our love is not a perfect love. By putting all our faith and trust in God first, He will look after our children where we don't have the power to protect them, He always will. We can't be everywhere with our children, and that's where God comes in, looking after them always for us. Because we put God first, He puts us first in everything.
It's okay to have material wealth as long as we don't allow it to consume us and our being which could end up blinding us to what is most important. Wealth is to be used wisely, wealth can be a blessing from God, wealth can come in many forms too, it isn't only money.
So if you realize that your wealth is a blessing from God and you use it wisely by letting God inspire you and direct you on how to use it and apply your wealth, the gift of salvation and heaven can still be achieved.

This is why in Luke 18:27 But He said, What is impossible with men is possible with God.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Jesus came and told us that if you believe there is any other authority above your own knowing then you have sinned. A misjudgment.

Could you quote the chapter and verse it always matters to read before and after the verse to get full understanding.