Signs From Above - Another Look

if god loves us then why does he let earthquakes and tsunamis happen???

so when miracles happen, it was god, when shtf... it was also god...

you're not fooling anyone anymo- ...wait, i wish that were true

Originally posted by vjr1113
if god loves us then why does he let earthquakes and tsunamis happen???

so when miracles happen, it was god, when shtf... it was also god...

you're not fooling anyone anymo- ...wait, i wish that were true

You got to start at the beginning in Genesis, when man first sinned against God, then you will find the reason and anwsers to why things happen the way they do.
If there were no God, than who would you blame?
Do you have any children?
What happens when a child refuses to listen?
Disasters can be averted, the same way miracles can happen. Through persistent prayer, good things can transpire and bad things can be stopped or prevented from happening. But it takes faith, and not always are our prayers answered to the way we want them to be.
Now after writing this I expect more negative response. If anyone has a better idea on how to make the world a better place and in an effective and perfect way, please tell us. After all, how many thousands of years have gone by and mankind has not found a way to make for a better and perfect world. Oh yes, I know, God hasn't done anything either. Well, God doesn't work in our natural world and time, He's spirit and time does not exist with God. No one stops to think that, God will not just impose Himself on mankind. Read about the Jews in the desert at the time of the exodus from Egypt, how many miracles, how many times God provided for the Jews, and every time after so many years went by, the Jews fell from grace. Why, because people always forget the good that is done for them, mankind has a short memory.

reply to post by bogomil

Actually not. 50+ years ago I outgrew the need of comfort blankets and speeking with invisible entities, which are supposed to give my life meaning and direction.

So you lost faith? If so, why did you lose faith? Or, did you have any faith at all?

I never said anybody called me imbecile.

Well you did say, "It's another, that you appear to consider your readers imbeciles" that's why I said no one did.

The compliment COULD be returned, but I'd rather ask you: "What IS my way then?" You already have expressed knowledge of my character-shortcomings (guilt and low self-esteem) and now you claim to know about my 'way'. Explain.

Your statements indicate that God is not real and anything to do with God is invalid with these statements among others,

"The 'gap-of-knowledge' argument is NOT valid, it's not convincing, these days it's even a little pathetic." "If you don't believe me, I can re-introduce the flying spaghetti monster and let him/her/it run on parallel reasoning'-lines to your alleged 'god'.

There are many 'views', and in the ranks of these views there are some individuals who want monopolies, privileges, who feel it their right to derogate others or just are generally self-proclaimed 'right'. If you're not amongst those, you are of course not targeted.

It's not me that's right, it's the word of God that is right, I'm just a messenger that believes in the message.

A course in logic wouldn't be amiss on your part, but I can give you a hint. It's not 'god'/not-'god', which is the reason for opposition, it's the possible social consequences of any extremist ideology with elitism involved.

This has nothing to do with elitism and especially mans logic and this is not an ideology, this is and has to do with God the creator of the human race, God an all knowing Spirit who's knowledge and understanding goes beyond the limited understanding of man.

I believe, that people would listen more to you, if you learned not to project your own mindset and its mechanisms on the rest of us.

This is not my mindset, when you say this, it is nothing more than an excuse to invalidate the word of God and to belittle what God is. These attitudes towards the all living and powerful Almighty Father has been predicted to get worse as we come to the end of this age.

What 'truth'? You mean the unvalidated claims, which you're pushing here.

Oh its validated alright, you just don't see it and I don't have to prove anything, God has already done that through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

In all respect. Your doctrines have no credibility whatsoever for me, and the only reason I respond to them is that extremist christianity demonstrably has run amok several times in human history. You guys better get used to egalitarian society without any special privileges for you.

You can only see what men fail to do, you do not see the Glory of God, and because you view it from that point of view you are stuck in that hole. Men is what run amok, because they do not want to recognize their Creator, they also allow their own ego to take control, rather than be led by the Holy Spirit of God.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Yes, I lost faith in comfort blankets and invisible playmates when I was about 7 years old.

Quote: ["Your statements indicate that God is not real and anything to do with God is invalid with these statements among others"]

Obviously you have misunderstood me completely. I can't have any definite opinions on something I can't experience. It's your DOCTRINES I object to.

We disagree very much on the meaning of the word 'elitism'. In your case it implies a (via your 'god') derogatory opinion of homosexuality as a mental illness or defect (on another thread) and on this thread your insistence on spreading your own doctrinal absolutes left and right.

It's as if you'd walked into a Rolls Royce workshop, and told the qualified mechanics: "Guys, let ME show you how to do it". There are people here, who have both intelligence and competence, and your condescending attitudes are rather provocative. Especially as there's reason to suspect, that your main argument is that "you know what you know what you know" and that's then presented as an universal truth.

Quote: ["Oh its validated alright, you just don't see it and I don't have to prove anything, God has already done that through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ."]

I see. Ofcourse you have 'validated' this to yourself, but not to me. And as this is a debate-forum and not a pulpit, where you un-opposed can deliever sermons, I can de-validate you all I like by asking inconvenient questions. Eventually the moot-question will ofcourse be, how 'validation' is precisely defined.

As I've said before, I can introduce the flying spaghetti monster on the same terms you use for your 'god' and 'validate' it as well.

Quote: ["You can only see what men fail to do, you do not see the Glory of God, and because you view it from that point of view you are stuck in that hole. Men is what run amok, because they do not want to recognize their Creator, they also allow their own ego to take control, rather than be led by the Holy Spirit of God."]

So you are still another of the TRUE christians, as opposed to all the christians, who did it the 'wrong' way. Forgive me for being un-knowing about your 'true' christianity. But as there are 34.000 different kinds of true christians, it's not easy to know what's what.

reply to post by hawaii50th

It's not me that's right, it's the word of God that is right, I'm just a messenger that believes in the message.

So if it is not you that's right, would you be willing to concede that you are wrong?

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

It's not me that's right, it's the word of God that is right, I'm just a messenger that believes in the message.

So if it is not you that's right, would you be willing to concede that you are wrong?

I am not wrong in the message that I'm bringing, and that I have been taught.

reply to post by hawaii50th

I am not wrong in the message that I'm bringing, and that I have been taught.

Well, this is just another way of saying that you are right and every other view is wrong.

If you cannot admit to the possibility of being wrong, then you consider yourself to be infallible. You are right, and everyone with a different perspective is wrong.

Where is there room for discussion and dialogue?

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

I am not wrong in the message that I'm bringing, and that I have been taught.

Well, this is just another way of saying that you are right and every other view is wrong.

If you cannot admit to the possibility of being wrong, then you consider yourself to be infallible. You are right, and everyone with a different perspective is wrong.

Where is there room for discussion and dialogue?

What is hard to understand? All I'm doing is presenting what the word of God says, without going quoting scripture, if I quote scripture than people complain about that. So I try not to and it's still not good, but I tell you one thing it's good enough for me.
If you want dialogue sure we can do that, but not like the last person that all he or she did was act arrogant and had a chip on his or her shoulder about everything.
So there's plenty of room for discussion.

Hope you watch this first.

reply to post by hawaii50th

What is hard to understand? All I'm doing is presenting what the word of God says, without going quoting scripture, if I quote scripture than people complain about that. So I try not to and it's still not good, but I tell you one thing it's good enough for me.

Actually, I don't have any problem with people quoting scripture or paraphrasing it. You are sharing what you believe to be true, and that is probably what we all do.

However, there is a difference between sharing what one believes to be true, and insisting that one's beliefs are the Absolute and Only Truth.

As for the video, I prefer direct interchange with others in a discussion. If you can summarize the message of the video, I am happy to comment on it if this is appropriate.

reply to post by mysticnoon

I don't insist to no one, what I do is just try to let one know how simple it is to find out if God is true and real by just stepping out in faith and asking God for them self to show them the truth. It's nothing to be afraid of and you have nothing to lose, but all to gain by it.

As for the video, it talks about how to break the barrier of understanding God. In our limitations of our minds, we can not understand why God does and allows the things that He does. God is spirit and we are physical beings, it's impossible to understand through our intellect, we need to build that spiritual bond with God through Jesus Christ in order to be able to grasp God's thinking. And it takes a life time, and we won't learn it all until we pass on into His domain.
Life is short and eternity is forever.

reply to post by hawaii50th


You wrote:

["If you want dialogue sure we can do that, but not like the last person that all he or she did was act arrogant and had a chip on his or her shoulder about everything.
So there's plenty of room for discussion."]


I take it, that I'm that 'last person'.

As with so many other words, you seem also in this case to have your own very special definitions on 'arrogance' and 'dialogue', as you use them as a shield justifying your feelings of persecution.

In common use:

....A dialogue is a two-way communication process, not a one-way preaching. I have offered you a real dialogue, which you have declined.

....And arrogance can be defined as over-bearing pride, which you seem to manifest constantly. You have, on everybody's behalf, an 'ultimate truth', you push very hard; you condemn minorities from a basis of parrotting OT and you deride competing 'reality-seeking' systems.

And without ever really coming to any point, you hide behind your self-appointed role as a 'messenger', where the same self-appointed doctrinal 'truths' are repeated.

There's usually a functional basis/startingpoint somewhere in most positions (except in regressive metaphysical speculations and epistemology), so if being a 'messenger' is your startingpoint, what makes you believe, that you are especially qualified for this assumed role, instead of just being a preacher with delusions of grandeur.

That was a question, NOT an absolute statement I made. You have the option of explaining your position.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

What is hard to understand? All I'm doing is presenting what the word of God says, without going quoting scripture, if I quote scripture than people complain about that. So I try not to and it's still not good, but I tell you one thing it's good enough for me.

Actually, I don't have any problem with people quoting scripture or paraphrasing it. You are sharing what you believe to be true, and that is probably what we all do.

However, there is a difference between sharing what one believes to be true, and insisting that one's beliefs are the Absolute and Only Truth.

As for the video, I prefer direct interchange with others in a discussion. If you can summarize the message of the video, I am happy to comment on it if this is appropriate.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
As you can see from this one scripture alone, I don't have to insist anything. The scriptures are plain in teaching that Christ is the only way to be saved from judgment.

God created man in His own image.
Genesis 1:26-27
26 God said, Let Us make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.
27 So God created man in His own image, in the image and likeness of God He created him; male and female He created them.

So what does it mean this scripture in Genesis? In His own image, it means to think for ourselves, to have a soul within us a spirit that lives on after the physical death of the flesh the body.

I am sorry, but all that reject God brings themselves under judgment. I can't and won't water it down to please men or women, it would make me a hypocrite to do so, and then I would be bringing down God's judgment upon my own self.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

You wrote:

["If you want dialogue sure we can do that, but not like the last person that all he or she did was act arrogant and had a chip on his or her shoulder about everything.
So there's plenty of room for discussion."]


I take it, that I'm that 'last person'.

As with so many other words, you seem also in this case to have your own very special definitions on 'arrogance' and 'dialogue', as you use them as a shield justifying your feelings of persecution.

In common use:

....A dialogue is a two-way communication process, not a one-way preaching. I have offered you a real dialogue, which you have declined.

....And arrogance can be defined as over-bearing pride, which you seem to manifest constantly. You have, on everybody's behalf, an 'ultimate truth', you push very hard; you condemn minorities from a basis of parrotting OT and you deride competing 'reality-seeking' systems.

And without ever really coming to any point, you hide behind your self-appointed role as a 'messenger', where the same self-appointed doctrinal 'truths' are repeated.

There's usually a functional basis/startingpoint somewhere in most positions (except in regressive metaphysical speculations and epistemology), so if being a 'messenger' is your startingpoint, what makes you believe, that you are especially qualified for this assumed role, instead of just being a preacher with delusions of grandeur.

That was a question, NOT an absolute statement I made. You have the option of explaining your position.

edit on 13-3-2011 by bogomil because: spelling

No, I don't need to shield myself against anything, and yes I do take pride, it's a pride that's in the Word of God, something that you don't understand. So what I choose to do is simply this.

Luke 9:5 (Amplified Bible)
5 And wherever they do not receive and accept and welcome you, when you leave that town shake off [even] the dust from your feet, as a testimony against them.

reply to post by hawaii50th

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
As you can see from this one scripture alone, I don't have to insist anything. The scriptures are plain in teaching that Christ is the only way to be saved from judgment.

For me, the plainest interpretation of the quoted passage is that everyone who was not personally initiated by Christ at the time he was alive has missed the spiritual boat.

So what does it mean this scripture in Genesis? In His own image, it means to think for ourselves, to have a soul within us a spirit that lives on after the physical death of the flesh the body.

Yes, this is in line with mystic teachings. Mysticism, as well as most religions, teach this very same concept, so it is by no means a unique revelation.

I am sorry, but all that reject God brings themselves under judgment.

No, what you are really saying is that all who reject your understanding of God bring themselves under judgment. Most non-christian religions and spiritual paths accept God as the fundamental premise.

I can't and won't water it down to please men or women, it would make me a hypocrite to do so, and then I would be bringing down God's judgment upon my own self.

There are ways to maintain inner integrtiy and still offer respect and understanding to the beliefs and viewpoints of others.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
As you can see from this one scripture alone, I don't have to insist anything. The scriptures are plain in teaching that Christ is the only way to be saved from judgment.

For me, the plainest interpretation of the quoted passage is that everyone who was not personally initiated by Christ at the time he was alive has missed the spiritual boat.

So what does it mean this scripture in Genesis? In His own image, it means to think for ourselves, to have a soul within us a spirit that lives on after the physical death of the flesh the body.

Yes, this is in line with mystic teachings. Mysticism, as well as most religions, teach this very same concept, so it is by no means a unique revelation.

I am sorry, but all that reject God brings themselves under judgment.

No, what you are really saying is that all who reject your understanding of God bring themselves under judgment. Most non-christian religions and spiritual paths accept God as the fundamental premise.

I can't and won't water it down to please men or women, it would make me a hypocrite to do so, and then I would be bringing down God's judgment upon my own self.

There are ways to maintain inner integrtiy and still offer respect and understanding to the beliefs and viewpoints of others.

Christ walked taught on this earth, was crucified, died and was buried, He descended into hell to preach to the dead so they would have a chance of redemption, and on the third day He rose from the grave, and walked among men, He ate and talked with many including His disciples for 40 days, then He ascended to heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

You are so wrong, Christ is alive, and He died for every soul from the beginning to the end of time. Where ever you got the idea that He was only for those of His time, you are so sadly mistaken.
There is scripture that say something about crucifying Christ a second time by speaking the words you have said, I will have to search for it.

I find this a very common trait in those who refute the word of God, they will always try to put words in the mouths of those that are trying to show the truth in scripture. This really reminds me of when the devil distorts the words of the Lord when Jesus went into the desert and was tempted by Satan. in Matthew 4:1-10

Matthew 27:33-66 (Amplified Bible)

33And when they came to a place called Golgotha [Latin: Calvary], which means The Place of a Skull,

34They offered Him wine mingled with gall to drink; but when He tasted it, He refused to drink it.

35And when they had crucified Him, they divided and distributed His garments [among them] by casting lots [a]so that the prophet's saying was fulfilled, They parted My garments among them and over My apparel they cast lots.(A)

36Then they sat down there and kept watch over Him.

37And over His head they put the accusation against Him (the cause of His death), which read, This is Jesus, the King of the Jews.

38At the same time two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right hand and one on the left.

39And those who passed by spoke reproachfully and abusively and jeered at Him, wagging their heads,(B)

40And they said, You Who would tear down the [c]sanctuary of the temple and rebuild it in three days, rescue Yourself [d]from death. If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41In the same way the chief priests, with the scribes and elders, made sport of Him, saying,

42He rescued others [e]from death; Himself He cannot rescue [f]from death. He is the King of Israel? Let Him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in and [g]acknowledge and cleave to Him.

43He trusts in God; let God deliver Him now if He cares for Him and will have Him, for He said, I am the Son of God.

44And the robbers who were crucified with Him also abused and reproached and made sport of Him in the same way.

45Now from the sixth hour (noon) there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour (three o'clock).

46And about the ninth hour (three o'clock) Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?--that is, My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me [leaving Me [h]helpless, forsaking and failing Me in My need]?(C)

47And some of the bystanders, when they heard it, said, This Man is calling for Elijah!

48And one of them immediately ran and took a sponge, soaked it with vinegar (a sour wine), and put it on a reed (staff), and was about to give it to Him to drink.(D)

49But the others said, Wait! Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him [j]from death.

50And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit.

51And at once the curtain of the [k]sanctuary of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; the earth shook and the rocks were split.(E)

52The tombs were opened and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep [l]in death were raised [to life];

53And coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

54When the centurion and those who were with him keeping watch over Jesus observed the earthquake and all that was happening, they were terribly frightened and filled with awe, and said, Truly this was God's Son!

55There were also numerous women there, looking on from a distance, who were of those who had accompanied Jesus from Galilee, ministering to Him.

56Among them were Mary of Magdala, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.

57When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus.

58He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him.

59And Joseph took the body and [m]rolled it up in a clean linen cloth [n]used for swathing dead bodies

60And laid it in his own fresh (

This post was part of a special Halloween Homage to Orson Wells.
Jumping out from behind the server and shouting BOO!

undefiled) tomb, which he had hewn in the rock; and he rolled a big boulder over the door of the tomb and went away.

61And Mary of Magdala and the other Mary kept sitting there opposite the tomb.

62The next day, that is, the day after the day of Preparation [for the Sabbath], the chief priests and the Pharisees assembled before Pilate

63And said, Sir, we have just remembered how that [p]vagabond Imposter said while He was still alive, After three days I will rise again.

64Therefore give an order to have the tomb made secure and safeguarded until the third day, for fear that His disciples will come and steal Him away and tell the people that He has risen from the dead, and the last deception and fraud will be worse than the first.

65Pilate said to them, You have a guard [of soldiers; take them and] go, make it as secure as you can.

66So they went off and made the tomb secure by sealing the boulder, a guard of soldiers being with them and remaining to watch.

Matthew 28 (Amplified Bible)
1NOW AFTER the Sabbath, near dawn of the first day of the week, Mary of Magdala and the other Mary went to take a look at the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled the boulder back and sat upon it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. 4And those keeping guard were so frightened at the sight of him that they were agitated and they trembled and became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, Do not be alarmed and frightened, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, Who was crucified. 6He is not here; He has risen, as He said [He would do]. Come, see the place where He lay. 7Then go quickly and tell His disciples, He has risen from the dead, and behold, He is going before you to Galilee; there you will see Him. Behold, I have told you. 8So they left the tomb hastily with fear and great joy and ran to tell the disciples. 9And as they went, behold, Jesus met them and said, Hail (greetings)! And they went up to Him and clasped His feet and worshiped Him. 10Then Jesus said to them, Do not be alarmed and afraid; go and tell My brethren to go into Galilee, and there they will see Me. 11While they were on their way, behold, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had occurred. 12And when they [the chief priests] had gathered with the elders and had consulted together, they gave a sufficient sum of money to the soldiers, 13And said, Tell people, His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we were sleeping. 14And if the governor hears of it, we will appease him and make you safe and free from trouble and care. 15So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this story has been current among the Jews to the present day. 16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them. 17And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted. 18Jesus approached and, [a]breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you [c]all the days ([d]perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. [e]Amen (so let it be).