Wis. GOP bypasses Dems, cuts collective bargaining

Originally posted by FriedrichNeecher
There is only one common factor eident, and that's the CONTEMPT the unionistas have for the taxpayer.
All else is smoke and mirrors.
If they could they'd gut every taxpayer to get at all those precious golden eggs

"look tor the union label as they nail you to their 'bargaining' table."

Unionists are the taxpayers. Stop being brainwashed by right wing nonsense. This was about democratic support and that is it...unions are the strongest contributor to democratic partys and so in many states, all of a sudden, unionbusting is being pushed. You will note that there are a small handful of unions not effected...those are unions that support republicans...they are magically not a issue.

This is purely a political move...a political party that at the moment is in power is targetting and destroying organizations that oppose the party on principle.
Well, Dems will be in power over this move...and no moaning when they attempt to disban the NRA and AM Talk radio due to fiscal concerns

oh...no, that would be crossing the line wouldn't it...clearly political.

get a grip, stop being a tool. This is all a lie to further a political movement...and it was an illegal action anyhow, so meaningless.

reply to post by FriedrichNeecher


You've got to be kidding me. You are taking the billionaires' side vs teachers and the like? What's wrong with you?

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

What does Obama have to do with this?

Were you just looking for an excuse to troll this thread?

And there's nothing "brave" about what Scott Walker did. It's too bad people are sleeping when they should be outraged.

He has a lot to do with it, as he has publicly promoted himself as being a man for the unions. You think this is all just accident happening spontaneously? Along with Socialists ramping up in Egypt and Tunisia? Not to mention that the chief of AFL-CIO is hob nobbing around with the Euro-Socialists promoting global taxes(perfect for the NWO) and bragging about their involvement in the Egypt protests. And said AFLCIO chief also seen hobnobbing around the WH when even the Pres advisors not being consulted. Yes it has every thing to do with it.

www.thehotjoints.com...

Originally posted by Darkrunner
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't agree with either faction. Wall Street or the Unions.

Don't get me wrong, unions have had their place in history (i.e. child labor, people being slaves to a certain company) but nowadays, the leadership of the unions is getting close to being just as bad as the wall street types....

The current unions aren't doing enough, I agree

You look at a 10 year chart and you will note that while the top 5% of the country seem to be spiking up insanely in investment return, the rest of us slobs have flatlined...the middle class is being lost completely and we are rapidly becoming a 18th century economic model of the very rich, and the poor masses...

I don't know how this is solved, but I do know if you take away the one collective protection, the flatline will quickly turn into a downturn so that the 5% spike can spike up higher.

unions are to workers what a strong military is to the US...it is something that ultimately serves as a deterrant from attacking.
Removing unions power (people power) is similar to disbanning our entire military and telling people to simply arm themselves...if there is an invasion, its house to house, not a giant military to protect.

There is a philosophical battle happening...is the governments job to protect the people from enemies within? Is it the governments job to regulate commerce? (btw, the answer is a constitutional yes to both..thats actually exactly their function)

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Welcome to ATS Mr. Beck. You bring your chalkboard?

Yes...everything is because of Obama...egypt being fed up with a dictator is just obama causing trouble to spread socialism, Wisconson breaking unions out of political desire is Obama causing trouble..its raining today...I imagine that is from obama causing doom clouds and keeping me indoors

-shakes fist at obama-

oops

Crap...hit reply while editing...

Lets keep this civil...ripping someone down only shows your argument to be weak...prop up your argument based on logic and facts, not insulting someone else.

Insulting someones stand...sure...some stands are stupid.
Insulting someones intellect because of their stand however makes you look like you fear the stand itself as it is more logical than yours, so you resort to attacking

Janky! behave!

Originally posted by SaturnFX
oops

edit on 10-3-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

Crap...hit reply while editing...

Lets keep this civil...ripping someone down only shows your argument to be weak...prop up your argument based on logic and facts, not insulting someone else.

Insulting someones stand...sure...some stands are stupid.
Insulting someones intellect because of their stand however makes you look like you fear the stand itself as it is more logical than yours, so you resort to attacking

Janky! behave!

edit on 10-3-2011 by SaturnFX because: nerfdom

Thanks



my edit button fell off

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by FriedrichNeecher

 

You've got to be kidding me. You are taking the billionaires' side vs teachers and the like? What's wrong with you?

Speaking of billionaires taking sides, I just heard something about John Kerry and an expensive yacht...

Threadjack for the win.

Speaking of yacht's, I heard crabbing is a dangerous occupation..

now...are we going to start putting randomness into this thread, or go back on topic? I am good either way.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Would you agree that, just as the crooks on Wall Street should have regulatory oversight that should govern their conduct, similar regulations should be in place for unions?

For example, if the union demands are in danger of bankrupting a company (i.e. GM) should the unions be subject to some kind of oversight? Should the corporations fire them all and hire scabs?

I'm all for paying a fair wage, but I think many unions today have gotten high on their 'power'. They know that for the most part they can shut down the production of a company until anything they demand is granted. And if the company can't meet those demands and stay fiscally afloat, they are the heartless meanies.

I'm not trying to sounds pro corporation here, but I think there has to be some give and take on both sides, instead of "You are going to give in to all of our demands, and that's all there is to it."

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by SaturnFX
oops

edit on 10-3-2011 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

Crap...hit reply while editing...

Lets keep this civil...ripping someone down only shows your argument to be weak...prop up your argument based on logic and facts, not insulting someone else.

Insulting someones stand...sure...some stands are stupid.
Insulting someones intellect because of their stand however makes you look like you fear the stand itself as it is more logical than yours, so you resort to attacking

Janky! behave!

edit on 10-3-2011 by SaturnFX because: nerfdom

Thanks

my edit button fell off

edit on 10-3-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

Was trying to show how you both were quickly devolving into attacking each other personally while making points from politicians. sort of silly...both sides have slaves that will do that...I know at least you can rise above that nonsense and attack the issues verses the person behind it.

If it wasn't for the union's, everbody in the United States, would be forced to work 10 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week; except for the rich elitists.

Union's, have keep company boss's, from telling you, to take a hike down the road when you ask for a pay raise.

Gov. Walker, and the other elected Repub. goon squad's of Wisconsin, are using the same bully tactics of the Republican Party started by one of the worst president's in United States history--- Ronald Wilson Reagan.

President Reagan, by firing all of the striking air controller's, was personaly reponsable, for the death of airline passengers, including the crashes of at least 3 airline passenger jets, due to the inept abilities of newly hired air traffic controllers.

In order to get the Repub's agenda completed, the order of the day is to literally starve state and federal government of money, by cutting taxes, while going off to start two illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then, claim the goverment is broke and we can't afford Social Security; so we will have to privatize it. This psychotic view has been the thought's of elected Republicans, for at least 30 years.

"In 30 minutes, 18 state senators undid 50 years of civil rights in Wisconsin," said Mark Miller, the leader of the Senate Democrats who fled to Illinois on Feb. 17 in order to block just such a vote from occuring. " Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten."

Originally posted by Darkrunner
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Would you agree that, just as the crooks on Wall Street should have regulatory oversight that should govern their conduct, similar regulations should be in place for unions?

For example, if the union demands are in danger of bankrupting a company (i.e. GM) should the unions be subject to some kind of oversight? Should the unions fire them all and hire scabs?

I'm all for paying a fair wage, but I think many unions today have gotten high on their 'power'. They know that for the most part they can shut down the production of a company until anything they demand is granted. And if the company can't meet those demands and stay fiscally afloat, they are the heartless meanies.

I'm not trying to sounds pro corporation here, but I think there has to be some give and take on both sides, instead of "You are going to give in to all of our demands, and that's all there is to it."

Most certainly oversight by the citizens..and most unions do have just that. They make sure the inions are not abusing power, spending funds to buy the leaders mercedes, etc...
This is not about regulating unions...this is about a full castration. Unions listened to the fiscal issues of the governor and accepted any and all sensible issues...said they would put all proveable fiscal issues on the table...the governor said naa, we just want to destroy the unions.

It is not a issue of pay or fiscal issues...this was a political move because unions support democrats (democrats are typically also pro-union).

Thats all it was, the governor admitted this really wasn't a fiscal issue verses a philosophical issue...this is tearing down organizations that can somewhat match the billionares on the right (Koch, Murdock, and Roves unnamed sources for crossroads). This is a sweeping (not just wisconson) attack against anything supporting a democrat for political reasons only.

This is some crazy evil crap going down...done illegally, and now the spin machine will be in full force on the right as to why workers no longer having a collective voice is great for the lowly scum called the middle class.
Now we don't have to hear about how a teacher is making 80k a year (wages plus benefits)..because that is too much and they are elitist scums to be paid that much

and we will also keep hearing of how someone making 250k+ a year is not rich and need their tax breaks permanent because of how poor they are..impoverished really..

nothing like the right wing hypocracy

So yes...80k after benefits = super rich if your part of the union
250k before benefits = poor people that need special privliges

oh...and corporations are people

seriously...unless your pay grade is outstanding...why are you on the right? they have abandoned the concept of a middle class and now fight proudly and strongly for just the top 5% and megacorps. go walmart :\

The philosophy of making it on your own based on your achievements and merits is a good philosophy and is alive and well for us dirt farmers...the right does not own that philosophy...a democrat will kick the arse of a lazy person also..there is no more right verses left...now its corporatists verses actual people (not corporation people...but human people)

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by FriedrichNeecher

 

You've got to be kidding me. You are taking the billionaires' side vs teachers and the like? What's wrong with you?

Ha ha Billionaires side? Not at all, I'm taking MY side and you are taking the side assigned to you BY the billionaires that own the union movement in concert with the corporate monopolist. They are in cohoots, or didnt you figure that ot that no matter the problem the public gets skint as a result? Oh yes, newsflash fa ya, the unions are not at the top, and they too serve a master of disaster, as evident everywhere they go.

Originally posted by Erno86
In order to get the Repub's agenda completed, the order of the day is to literally starve state and federal government of money, by cutting taxes, while going off to start two illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I am starting to have issue with this being considered a republican agenda..This is not the party of Ronald Reagan..it simply isn't

Reagen did fire a ton of union workers whom went on strike...but that was a bad move on unions..that was the case of a baggage handler demanding 20 bucks an hour (translate it to about 35-40 an hour now). I don't necessarily support Reagens move, but I do see it as arguably right...unions were getting very greedy.

Today, this is not stopping greedy unions, this is about smashing a organization that actually makes -less- than their non union counterparts (or slightly more if you add on benefits...union and get good health and dental, or go non union and get a few more bucks on your paycheck but with crappy bennies)...anyhow, I think with the fracturing of the republican party into 3 completely seperate entities, they really need to start renaming the different organizations
you got the tea party, the neocons, and the republicans...this is a neocon move

Originally posted by FriedrichNeecher

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by FriedrichNeecher

 

You've got to be kidding me. You are taking the billionaires' side vs teachers and the like? What's wrong with you?

Ha ha Billionaires side? Not at all, I'm taking MY side and you are taking the side assigned to you BY the billionaires that own the union movement in concert with the corporate monopolist. They are in cohoots, or didnt you figure that ot that no matter the problem the public gets skint as a result? Oh yes, newsflash fa ya, the unions are not at the top, and they too serve a master of disaster, as evident everywhere they go.

Unions answer to people

Care to back up your claims with sourced reviewed facts or should we simply take your word for it?

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by MindSpin
Well...the dictator finally got his way.


Bad news for residents of Wisconsin.

The best news EVER for Democrats concerning the 2012 elections.

Ha!...
Live here? (U.S.?) (Wi?)
No?
myob...
I'm sure your state has its own problems...

Doesn't matter where I live...this has become a National issue and it has exposed Republicans for what they really are.

Like I said...it sucks...but it is also good news.

I'm going to have to side with the "this is a good thing sentiment." And I live in Wisconsin!

I don't think it's good because the governor got his way and broke up the public worker's union. I think it's good because it has pissed a lot of people off and woken up those that have been in a trance since the trillion dollar bail out in 2008.

Their agenda goes way beyond breaking up the union. This is about destroying public ownership and more deregulation for big business. They say it's about lower taxes and stimulating the economy, but make no mistake, it has nothing to do with that. It's about more deregulation for corporations so they can have more and more control and fewer laws preventing them from exploiting their workers. This is a war on the middle class and small businesses.

I'm astounded that there are still people in this country that think big business has earned our trust, considering we are only two years removed from the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the planet. If we don't wake up from this, we are hopeless!

Stop supporting these corporations by not spending your money on their products and services. Whenever possible, support local businesses that are transparent and socio-environmentally responsible. The real power of the people is in our wallets.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Darkrunner
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Would you agree that, just as the crooks on Wall Street should have regulatory oversight that should govern their conduct, similar regulations should be in place for unions?

For example, if the union demands are in danger of bankrupting a company (i.e. GM) should the unions be subject to some kind of oversight? Should the unions fire them all and hire scabs?

I'm all for paying a fair wage, but I think many unions today have gotten high on their 'power'. They know that for the most part they can shut down the production of a company until anything they demand is granted. And if the company can't meet those demands and stay fiscally afloat, they are the heartless meanies.

I'm not trying to sounds pro corporation here, but I think there has to be some give and take on both sides, instead of "You are going to give in to all of our demands, and that's all there is to it."

seriously...unless your pay grade is outstanding...why are you on the right? they have abandoned the concept of a middle class and now fight proudly and strongly for just the top 5% and megacorps. go walmart :\

I am on the right fiscally. I make any where from 40-50k a year, depending on overtime. I am not rich. I pay a 15% co-pay on my health care and prescription meds when I need them. I accept that. Our company is family oriented, small and takes care of it's people. In the event od a death in the family they will fly you home from anywhere in the world on their dime. That's why no one here has ever thought of going union. I understand that not all companies are like that.

We recently had teachers strike in my town because they might have to chip in a co-pay on insurance. Three people of my graduating class came back to teach at our local high school and they are apoplectic that they might have to chip in a little to their health care.

Welcome to the real world guys. Most companies around the nation that offer some kind of insurance require some kind of a co-pay. And to go on strike because somehow a co-pay is going to bankrupt them is ludicrous.