Wis. GOP bypasses Dems, cuts collective bargaining

reply to post by wantsome


Why do you hate the latter? Is it because they have so much money? If so, have you ever contributed to their wealth?

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by wantsome

 

Why do you hate the latter? Is it because they have so much money? If so, have you ever contributed to their wealth?

Steve Jobs recently opend a Apple plant in China and created 300,000 jobs in a day. In the month of January the US created 100,000 jobs as a whole. Why should he continue to live in this great country and prosper while the rest of us suffer?

David Koch is manipulating the system with his money to get what he wants. It must be nice to to able to call the govenor of a state anytime you want. Lets see you or I try it.

Originally posted by wantsome
Steve Jobs recently opend a Apple plant in China and created 300,000 jobs in a day. In the month of January the US created 100,000 jobs as a whole. Why should he continue to live in this great country and prosper while the rest of us suffer?

If government regulation made it more cost effective for him to produce overseas, and thus sell a cheaper and desired product to us, then are you only being angry for a lack of patriotic sacrifice on his part?

I hope you don't have an ipod, ipad or iphone, and refuse to visit websites that utilize quicktime.

David Koch is manipulating the system with his money to get what he wants. It must be nice to to able to call the govenor of a state anytime you want. Lets see you or I try it.

So is it the fault of how he made his wealth or that he has it, or that of a politician that the people elected?

reply to post by Wolf321


400 individuals control more wealth than 150 million US citizens. You're ok with that. You live below the poverty line but you feel the wealthy need tax breaks...ok. Collective bargaining rights are somehow evil and anti american but credit default swaps and Wall Street thievery is just fine. Shipping jobs overseas...ok by you, the corporations need relief from all that labor expense...right?? You wouldn't blame them. I heard on the news yesterday that parts of the patriot missile are manufactured by american prisoners labor...they work cheap. I could go on but I won't.

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by wantsome
Steve Jobs recently opend a Apple plant in China and created 300,000 jobs in a day. In the month of January the US created 100,000 jobs as a whole. Why should he continue to live in this great country and prosper while the rest of us suffer?

If government regulation made it more cost effective for him to produce overseas, and thus sell a cheaper and desired product to us, then are you only being angry for a lack of patriotic sacrifice on his part?

I hope you don't have an ipod, ipad or iphone, and refuse to visit websites that utilize quicktime.

David Koch is manipulating the system with his money to get what he wants. It must be nice to to able to call the govenor of a state anytime you want. Lets see you or I try it.

So is it the fault of how he made his wealth or that he has it, or that a politician that the people elected?

edit on 10-3-2011 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)

Why not sacrafice for the greater well being of the country? Henry Ford once belived in doing so. He believe if he paid his workers $5 a day they'd buy his cars. People thought he was nuts but it worked. It's also what brought this country out of the great depression.

CEO's like Steve Jobs have thier goods made cheap in China but they don't pass the savings on to us or an Iphone wouldn't cost $600.

David Koch is lining politicians pockets to get no bid contracts on municipal utilities so he can have a monopoly.

Originally posted by wantsome
Why not sacrafice for the greater well being of the country?

Could you apply that logic to yourself? The country would be better off if it had more money and a lower debt. So would you willing give more of your pay in taxes or sheer donations to the federal government? I somehow doubt it. You worked hard for your money, perhaps in time, sweat, ideas, and should be entitled to every cent.

CEO's like Steve Jobs have thier goods made cheap in China but they don't pass the savings on to us or an Iphone wouldn't cost $600.

And how much would an iphone cost if made in the US? Beside, any product will always be priced as high as it can such that people still buy it. If no one were willing to pay $600, you can be sure, the price would not be $600. Is that his fault for following supply and demand, or the people for being stupid enough to pay $600 for a phone?

David Koch is lining politicians pockets to get no bid contracts on municipal utilities so he can have a monopoly.

So you are mad at him, and not the politicians who are in the position to make the actual decision.

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reply to post by Wolf321


The country has plenty of money it's all at the top. The best part of trickle down economics ran down my leg. It's sure isn't being invested here. It's going to billion dollar plants in China.

Let's break it down.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
400 individuals control more wealth than 150 million US citizens. You're ok with that.

Considering that everyone has the same access to make as much or as little money as they choose, and then spend, save or invest such money as they choose, absolutely.

You live below the poverty line but you feel the wealthy need tax breaks...ok.

I think the whole tax system is screwed. I don't think that someone should be taxed more simply for making more though. That would be like charging someone more for a loaf of bread because they made more money in their job.

Collective bargaining rights are somehow evil and anti american but credit default swaps and Wall Street thievery is just fine.

Another area that is all screwy. Some of the stuff wall street does is nothing more than gambling and I think should not be permitted.

Shipping jobs overseas...ok by you, the corporations need relief from all that labor expense...right??

I hate to see jobs leave the US, but if I were a business man, I know I would want to produce a product at a lower price to make a higher profit. Would it be fair for the government to require you to buy only American made products knowing you could buy the same or superior product made in China? Would you complain then?

I heard on the news yesterday that parts of the patriot missile are manufactured by american prisoners labor...they work cheap.

That is a sad situation, and one I don't like to hear. Are you equally as mad when you see inmates cleaning the streets for pennies instead of the local government raising your taxes to pay a private firm to do the same? Just curious.

Originally posted by Wolf321
With few exceptions, these uber rich made their money by providing a good or service to someone or had an idea that made them wealthy.

Yeah, most of the uber rich got that way by selling valuable services like derivitives and tax shelters which people gladly pay for unlike teachers and firemen who do not do crap for anyone.

reply to post by wantsome


You say that as if money were something each person was to be allocated in life at birth, as opposed to earned equivalent to the work put in. Some people work harder, more, or have more talent and as such make more. The same way, the more you have the more you make. If James Elite has $1 million and invests it and it grows 10%, it is more than if Joe Everyman invests his $10 thousand and at 10%. It is not wrong or unfair that 10% of $1 million is more than 10% of $10 thousand, its just a larger number.

Originally posted by Wolf321
Let's break it down.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
400 individuals control more wealth than 150 million US citizens. You're ok with that.

Considering that everyone has the same access to make as much or as little money as they choose, and then spend, save or invest such money as they choose, absolutely.

You live below the poverty line but you feel the wealthy need tax breaks...ok.

I think the whole tax system is screwed. I don't think that someone should be taxed more simply for making more though. That would be like charging someone more for a loaf of bread because they made more money in their job.

Collective bargaining rights are somehow evil and anti american but credit default swaps and Wall Street thievery is just fine.

Another area that is all screwy. Some of the stuff wall street does is nothing more than gambling and I think should not be permitted.

Shipping jobs overseas...ok by you, the corporations need relief from all that labor expense...right??

I hate to see jobs leave the US, but if I were a business man, I know I would want to produce a product at a lower price to make a higher profit. Would it be fair for the government to require you to buy only American made products knowing you could buy the same or superior product made in China? Would you complain then?

I heard on the news yesterday that parts of the patriot missile are manufactured by american prisoners labor...they work cheap.

That is a sad situation, and one I don't like to hear. Are you equally as mad when you see inmates cleaning the streets for pennies instead of the local government raising your taxes to pay a private firm to do the same? Just curious.

If I were as smart as you I would have been a republican. I guess I missed that part when I reached the age to reason for myself.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Forbes Richest 400 Americans

From that list, less than 100 made their money via investments. Of that 100, can you say how much went into expanding business, streamlining process, improving ideas, research and development? How much money did those 100 make for other, middle class people who invest.

Yes, there are shady people in business and government. Having money or making money doesn't make a person or their business bad.

edit: less than 100 of 400 is not "Most"

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Forbes Richest 400 Americans

From that list, less than 100 made their money via investments.

You are right, my bad. I completely forgot to include unfair tax advantages, slave labor, fraud, outsourcing, subversion of anti-trust laws, bailouts, handouts, subsidies, tax loopholes, etc.

Of that 100, can you say how much went into expanding business, streamlining process, improving ideas, research and development?

No. Can you?

How much money did those 100 make for other, middle class people who invest.

Well considering the middle class is shrinking and wealth is being concentrated at the top, apparently not as much as you seem to think.

Yes, there are shady people in business and government. Having money or making money doesn't make a person or their business bad.

edit: less than 100 of 400 is not "Most"

edit on 10-3-2011 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)

Good thing there are only a few bad apples in corporate America unlike the vast armies of corrupt teachers out there, living high on the hog.

reply to post by Janky Red


No, the best thing to do is to put people in power and allow them to run the government the same way a business is run, its that simple.

When did a CEO ever screw you out of anything? Is it simply the fact that the person makes a ton of money that you think he "screwed" you? Grow up. You have absolutely no legitimate reason to "hate" any CEO unless you know one personally and he has done you harm. You are referring to the CEO in the abstract and it is some misguided, immature notion of fairness that is driving your emotions. Newsflash - there is no such thing as "fairness". Ever do a bit of research on CEOs? I encourage you to. You might find it interesting. Most come from humble, middle class homes and worked their butts off. They got an education and climbed the ladder and rose to run companys. I can tell you what is fair. Whats fair is that the CEO knew the rules of the game the same as you and the same as some teacher in Wisconsin. Everybody knows the rules. Some folks just play harder, are better, are lucky and most likely a combination of all three. Some gent, playing by the same rules that everyone in this country is made well aware of when they are children plays the game hard and well and winds up at the top of the heap. And for that you hate him?

The vast majority of this hatred of the abstract CEO or "Banker" is nothing but self loathing.

Do some of these folks make too much money? Sure they do. What they make is also public and if your hatred of these folks is so great, then do a bit of research on executive compensation of firms before you buy something or watch something or listen to something. Vote with your actions.

Get off of the tired old "I'm a victim of the greedy, evil CEO" train. It left the station a long time ago and its full of cry babies.

reply to post by dolphinfan


If eliminating "waste" means putting people out of work, then the voters of WI are really that damn stupid.

There is no other way around it. No amount of Republican b.s will change this debate.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Tax cuts for the rich are what caused this financial pitfall.

LOW TAXES = LESS MONEY IN THE COFFERS = POLITICIANS CALLING FOR BELT-TIGHTENING

Stop blaming it on the unions.

reply to post by Wolf321


You're assuming that ALL unions wield political power.

Not so! The big unions (AFL-CIO, Teamsters, etc) have the political influence. The little, everyday unions do not.

Again, go back to the drawing board and look at the issue for what it really is. Don't ask me. Look at it and think.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


Don't let your experiences with ONE union cloud your judgment of ALL unions.

I never had this problem when I was a member of an union. They never threatened us. They fought for us. My old boss at the time kept telling the steward to STFU every time he tried to say something to represent us. That company would NOT work with the union but they wanted cheap, refugee labor.

You know why these companies like refugees/legal immigrants? Because they can easily bully these people into a wall thanks to the language/cultural barriers that exist. Without an union, these people would have no protection against these practices. Now that I work a non-unionized job, I'm seeing the need for an union for many reasons.

It's not just about money. It's also about ensuring that the employer follows the law instead of trying to take advantage of the laborers!

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