Wis. GOP bypasses Dems, cuts collective bargaining

That has been going on here in MI, for about 15 years, it is called layoffs, then when the work needs to be done they advertise then it goes to the lowest bidder. with the best resourses for the job at hand.speaking of unions the afl-clo is the biggest bag of wind going here in mi they are now in with the supermarket chains making it almost impossiple to keep workers,so far all this outsoursing is city and township now they are working on the state behind closed doors.

reply to post by Janky Red


Nice tirade. Please explain what the difference is between "legitimate business" and "elite corporatism". I love all you folks who all claim to love legitimate business but hate the corporate elite. What is the business you're referring to, the local hardware store? Hating "elite corporatism" is just a catch phrase for what in reality is "I absolutely can not stand the fact that there are people so much more successfull than I am!" and "I hate the fact that despite these people and these corporations have all of these resources that they won't toss a bit to little old me".

You offer no specifics other than these tired, old, semi-socialist tid-bits. Oh, so now its the oil companys raping the citizens? Cool. You have a commodity based business the source of that commodity is in jeopardy at least in the short term and the price is going up? Who would have thought that would happen.

There is every bit as much corrpution in the union bosses and their extortion of politicians for sweet heart deals for votes than between corporations and politicians.

You still have not given any reasonable answer as to why you hate CEOs. Oh I know why you do, but I'd like to hear it from you.

Grow up. Quit wasting your time seething with hatred for people and institutions you have no reason to hate and direct the energy to improving your situation. Hey if you work hard enough for long enough, you might wind up a CEO! God Bless America. Now do me a favor and if you do become the CEO of a public company let me know because thats definately a stock I'm going to short.

All I have to say about this subject is this.

I find it funny that a public paid governor & his republican public paid cohorts, with a great pension, medical a great pay check all the perks , expense accounts (which by the way also get paid by the peoples taxes) Gets away with telling the unions and their members you are corrupt and over paid, with too good of a pension, pay and medical. Kinda the pot calling the kettle black to me. Because in the end the politicians are just as corrupt if not more corrupt than the unions, as well way over paid, and way over what they should get for their pension ad medical too.

So, if the budget is in need of cuts the politicians in WI should be taking the same cuts in their package for service as well.

reply to post by The Sword


Incorrect. Under Kennedy, Reagan and Bush, cutting taxes generates more federal revenue.

"But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”

www.washingtontimes.com...

Now you may not like it, but those are the facts. When taxes are low people don't go to such extremes to avoid them. When taxes are low, folks spend more of their money. When taxes are low, folks invest in their businesses and hire folks who then pay taxes. When taxes are low, folks actually want to earn more money.

There is a point in the marginal tax rate where people will simply decide that it is not worth it to attempt to make more money.

So the dictator in chief strikes again eh? That darn Obama. Typical Chicago style criminal political maneuvering again. He breaks his promises. He subverts the rules. He rams this crap through. He goes against the will of the people. It is treasonous I tells ya! In fact it....

What's that?

Not Obama? Some Republican Governor doing those exact same things? Oh... ummm..

What a brave politician he is to do what it takes to make the tough decisions. That is what I meant to say.

What collective bargaining has there been? The public was never represented at the table before. the alleged guardians assigned to represent the public were routinely bought off with promises of future union support or worse. Bout time the playing field was leveled. Want democracy? lets vote for continuing rights or not, oh, I guess we did and public sector unionism lost, but as per routine, union/libs when unhappy with what tribute they fail to extract, will threaten violence and create maximum pain for their employers and redefine the discussion into an army of lies and misdirection to avoid the simple fact that theire employers are unhappy with their performance and compensation that exceeds their own.
Iet us count the minutes down til the unions light the first fire, throw the first brick and draw first blood of their employers, shall we?.

Well the union buster got his way after all thank you Mr. Walker for showing your true colors. It seems the Koch brothers chose well when they decided to buy this tool.

Union buster vs public buster. Since this is the crux of it, it's now down to this level. which one are you for?

Union buster
Public buster

Pick one and one only and no blather about strawmen or fantasy options.
One wins one loses, That's life on this planet at this time for the forseeable future

Wow. So, here we go, divide and conquer at it's finest. Half the US thinks it is conservative and the other half thinks its entitled. Now I guess we'll see if what happens to the 'man-on-the-street' outrage. Will everyone go home and sit back on their couches to get used to the new rules, or will the protests evolve, I'm thinking something along the lines of Greece, or maybe Libya style?

It's a long bumpy road ahead.

reply to post by Sinnthia


What does Obama have to do with this?

Were you just looking for an excuse to troll this thread?

And there's nothing "brave" about what Scott Walker did. It's too bad people are sleeping when they should be outraged.

reply to post by dolphinfan


WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

Answer this question. Shouldn't more revenue = more companies taking risks and CREATING JOBS?

Do I need to get a chalkboard and start crying to get you to SEE it?

Congrats on them doing the right thing.........
Guess they need to get back to work, while they still have jobs.

This is awesome. Maybe now we can save some money instead of it being extorted by these overpaid losers.


There is no right to demand more of the taxpayers money.

This is was all bought and sold a long rime ago...

The entire banking fiasco and subsequent economic failure of the world are
nothing more than the elite trimming the fat from the herd. We are the
sheep...and we're being sheared. The middle class is systematically being
robbed by these New Age Robber Barons (the names haven't changed much).

The politics are merely a useful distraction that pit us against ourselves
while they steal our money...it is an elephant and donkey show.

Originally posted by NorEaster
I'm sort of enjoying this show. The GOP is destroying itself again, as if they never took that break from their suicidal process in 2006. They just picked up where they left off and are moving to finish the job. Unbelievable.

This time they won't have the Tea Party to fake people out with, since that idiotic ruse took off and started eating their preferred "corporate" candidates in the primaries. It's pretty exciting to watch the death of a political party as established as the GOP. It's not a common thing to get to witness. I actually thought that the national party leadership would get a handle on things once their candidates swept the polls in November, but it's been a free-for-all ever since. Hell, they can't even get a serious (or nonserious) presidential candidate to announce, and that's pretty telling. It's like there are several ideological drives going on that have nothing to do with each other, and are even conflicting with each other. And they're all really frantic. It's a mess.

I will say that I didn't expect the new GOP governors to choke coming right out of the gate. It's like there's a virus that's gotten spread around and they're all losing their marbles at once. Used to be they'd wait until they got used to the chair behind the desk before they started destroying their careers. I don't see this bizarre behavior allowing the GOP to survive as a viable party if it keeps up. The middle of the political spectrum won't suppport that sort of crap, and will eliminate it in 2012.

LOL WOW! I imagined your mouth watering as you were typing this up.

There is a LOT of implying and assumptions in your post. What about public unions do you find they were doing correctly?

IN FACT, what do ANY pro-public union supporters think they were doing right?

In my opinion, it seems these are the types of unions that are getting in the way of our educational system. I watched a documentary recently, Waiting for Superman, and it blew me away. I suggest you watch it and then try to explain how the unions don't need to be changed.

Teachers already get paid a good salary. I agree that they all have a tough job... but I think it's a safe assumption that a large percentage aren't teaching like it is.

If the teachers want more money... how about they start teaching better!

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Uneducated people assume that the unions are greedy, malevolent and just plain evil.

They probably aren't members of unions. They probably have bosses that make them work for #ty pay and benefits. They probably don't have adequate sick pay/vacation pay. They probably work more overtime than what's legally allowed (and their boss likely bribes the gov't to look the other way). They probably face retaliation if they even think of challenging their employer.

If you enjoy that kind of crap, more power to you.

But don't trample on the rights of other Americans to organize and fight for good benefits, pay and equity!

Who doesn't want a fair wage? Collective bargaining exists for that sole purpose!

Educated? Check.
Not a member of a union? Check.
Fair wages and benefits? Check.
Two weeks of vacation a year, three after 5 years and a week's sick time? Check.
Work "week" is 4 days on and 4 days off? Check.

Plus, if I don't do my job, I lose it. If my coworker doesn't do his job, he loses it. Yes, I said that correctly. If you under-perform, you lose your job! If you are a sucky employee, you don't get a raise! See how that works? It works just like it is supposed to! Where it doesn't work like that is under collective bargaining.

Oh, and before the pro-union sheeple cry wolf: I used to be in a union. I got out as fast as I could because of the above reasons. I worked with people not getting fired for sleeping on the job, not fired for no-call/no-show, not fired for doing half the work of their peers. But they sure got a fat raise every year! Why, you ask? Because they had seniority and paid their dues! I was in the same union as my father (United Steelworkers), who had a good friend that was beaten to death by union thugs back in the early '70s because he was a scab for crossing a picket line. He wasn't getting paid, and had to feed his family. That meanie.

So, is my mind changed now? Nope, unions are still greedy, malevolent and just plain evil.

/TOA

When you have the quality public services like we have in Wisconsin there is no reason to try to take away Public Sector workers' money, but when they agree to make sacrifices in their compensation packages (which is substantially lower than the Private Sector for those with >High School Educations) there is no reason to bust the Unions that keep these people protected and happy (so they stay in our state). Wisconsin has been rated as having the 2nd best education system in the country, and it's true that they do get large benefit packages, but they have sacrificed wages to get them and that is what reasonable bargaining is all about.

If somebody tells you that there are jobs that require you to unionize they are lying. You can declare yourself a non-union member, therefore not having to pay Union dues, but you do have to pay the administrative costs of the people who bargain your wages for you (not sure of the exact numbers, but I've gotten estimates of around 60% of Teachers' normal Union dues.)

What's happening in my home state is not how we have ever done business. We have never had the majority party violate so many rules, procedures and laws. Both of the Assembly votes were illegal (one of which had to be redone) the Conference Committee was both illegal and against procedure (normal procedure calling a Conference Committee after a bill has passed through both chambers of the Legislature.

I will be down at the Capitol in less than an hour (after I get a bus ride from one of my spectacular Unionized bus drivers) to help keep the peace, and exchange knowledge. These actions will not stand, and there will be Retribution. 3 Republican State Senators face serious recall efforts (out of the 8 launched - while only 1 Democrat is facing a serious recall effort) and our recall petitions will be sent out in November all across the state for our Governor who has way overstepped his power, and wants to ruin Wisconsin traditions.

reply to post by AmericanaOverdrive


Ahahahaha. What quality public services?

The roads here suck, the poor excuse for cops here spend all of their time writing revenue raising citations, etc etc.

Remember, there is no right to demand more taxpayer money. If public union parasites are unhappy with being overpaid and having outstanding benefits, they are free to seek employment in the private sector. (If anyone would actually hire them)

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


I seem to remember Madison being rated as the most secure city to live in, also as noted, our schools are rated 2nd in the US with UW - Madison being ranked in the top 10 schools in the world consistently (it's also a member of the UW system which has quality schools - including UW - Lacrosse whose staff decided to unionize in the past month) we have terrific people who keep snow off our roads, fire out of our houses, trash off our lawns, and I do not remember funding for our roads (which don't happen to be that terrible) having to do with our wonderful Public Sector workers.

AHAHahahahah!!! Seems like FINALLY a real representative of the public is forming a CITIZENS UNION and doing some COLLECTIVE BARGAINING of his own, as the union reps run off to another state to hide and snipe at any adult in the vicinity.
You can talk about my Koch if you first say youre Soros!