Having an Open/Swinging Marriage

reply to post by MagesticEsoteric

Swingers are by and large run by the women, who let the guys think they are in charge. Clearly the majority want the security (and the guy on the financial hook), but want to do better and more than what they got at home.It's the men who are at most risk of losing access and wealth by losing a spouse to a divorce, so wallah. a decent compromise.
Spend some time at Hedo and watch the festivities and see if the shwingers have it goin on or, from a distance they simply look self centered, shallow and manipulative.

reply to post by MagesticEsoteric

in regards to foreplay
I was hoping you could clarify.

Speaking generally of the greater forces at work here, it is masculine nature to act upon, and feminine nature to be acted upon. To be more precise, mercury will accept any energy that is offered to it. It is fundamentally non-judgemental. Salt may in this case act to "block" the action of sulphur by preserving any given state of mercury.

In our society there is much "social salt" acting as blockage, preventing sulphur from acting upon mercury. This takes the form of women rejecting men for being "not good enough." However, when one man succesfully overcomes that blockage, the woman is left in a state of reduced blockage. There is less barrier for the "not good enough" man to overcome. Thus, she is more receptive to him.

If a strong man and dozen oxen till the fields, the soil becomes not particularly selective about who plants the seeds.

reply to post by LordBucket


Love the analogy...that is what I thought you were trying to say but, I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks

reply to post by FriedrichNeecher


You are saying that in a majority of these types of relationships that the woman is the one leading the both partners into the lifestyle.

Is this assumption based on statistical data or your own knowledge/ experience.

I ask because I would think it would be the other way around but, then again, what the heck do I know.

I used to know some who chose a polyamourous relationship. In one relationship, all 3 lived together (two guys, one girl)This was a 3-some where she had a husband and a significant other and it also included children. The family unit was strong it it seemed to work well, for them.

I know the exact same scenario, just one kid though...and they've all been happy for years, at least ten years, so far, if not longer. Not for me though...I don't get it.

reply to post by MagesticEsoteric


Yes that's my experience with the lifestye, although it's not something I actively participated in other than to say thanks but "I'm not ino that and neither is she" that kindastuff, In analysis the male only gets away with what the female allows him to, its she that holds the knife on his junk, she's got nothing to lose unless she's stupid..
There are variables and there are subs and doms of either gender, but in American culture by and large the motivated woman holds all the cards and calls all the shots or can easily strip the male of everything he has by court order. The officers of the court must find he with the cash guilty or nobody gets paid.
You dont have to agree, but with what I seen, the guys swallow their pride, follow their women into the party room and deal. Not much love to be found in the lifestyle, although in theory of one loves someone, one goes where they take them, BTDT, not happy about it, but it is so american to see cpmpromise as acceptable as the alternatives have been made so expensive by statute.
Ymmv

reply to post by MagesticEsoteric

in a majority of these types of relationships that the
woman is the one leading the both partners into the lifestyle.

If a man wishes to have sex with more women, and if he is sufficiently in control of an existing relationship that he is able to generate consent, what motivation does he have to share his woman with other men? If he can sleep around and she will accept that, he gains nothing by encouraging her to sleep around too, but he does risk introducing a new man who may be better able to exert control than he is.

If a woman wishes to have sex with more men, and she is sufficiently in control of a relationship that she is able to generate consent, by allowing him to sleep around too, she allows him the illusion that he is the one in control.


My own personal experience with men who desire such arrangements is that they tend to be effeminate. On some level they are aware of what a "proper" and healthy masculine/feminine exchange is supposed to be, but they are sufficiently feminine themselves that they are unable to provide the necessary masculine ingredients. So they arrange for those ingredients to be provided by another man who is more able to do so.

When a woman is more "masculine" than a man in that she is able to make such decisions for a relationship and he will accept them, odds are good that what she really wants is not to usurp the masculine role and be in charge. She probably wants a man who is sufficiently masculine that she can be feminine for him. She's unlikely to get that from a man who will casually submit to her about such a thing. However, by convincing him that it was his idea, she creates an illiusion that he was the one in charge, thus creating an atmosphere of him being the masculine one instead of her. This serves both of them, and he is able to sleep with these other man feeling like he's so powerful that he can do so, and she gets to experience men who are probably more fulfilling for her than the one she's in a relationship with.

With a man, there's no benefit to such duplicity. He can simply say, "this is what I'm going to do" and if she accepts that, then he is indeed the one in charge, and both of them are able to fulfill their masculine and feminine roles. He is able to revel in the power of being able to do as he pleases while keeping one particular woman loyal to him while he does, and she is able to revel in submitting to a man powerful enough to have many women, as well as take joy in the fact of knowing that despite him being able to be with many women, she's the one he wants to be with.

I would think it would be the other way around

Why? How does a man benefit from a woman sleeping with other men?

reply to post by LordBucket


not from around here, are ye?
There's no one situation fits all in the human drama.
There's more to life than erudition.
More money you got, more you got to lose, the more others look for some excuse to help themselves to it unless of course you become like them and even up the odds.

reply to post by FriedrichNeecher

There's no one situation fits all in the human drama.

Which is why in my initial post to this thread, rather than giving a one-size-fits-all approval or rejection, I said:

"I would advise those considering such an act to closely examine why they desire it."

More money you got, more you got to lose

Which would be yet another reason for women to be more likely to be the ones seeking a "swinging" arrangment than men. However, as you say, no one situation fits all in the human drama. Money may be relevant in some cases, but it's unlikely to be a motivation in all cases.

As long as its not on an emotional level and just for the pleasure, I'm all for it!

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Klassified
I've known a few couples who live this "lifestyle". But one couple in particular have been married almost 30 years, and are still like a couple of teens together. You would think they were newlyweds at times. So I guess it depends on the couple. It's not for me though. But I don't judge or begrudge anyone else if it works for them.

I think they're more like friends then a married couple if they are behaving as such. Realistically this is going backwards. We are humans although still mammals, but we're definitely not animals in our instincts and thought process. However swinging to me is basically nothing more than hunger for sex that a couple has and they decide to break this barrier to satisfy their hunger. It is against the laws and rules of marriage established and derived by most societies.

According to them. Their intimate life is as good or better than it ever was. Whether or not they're being truthful is another thing. But I've known them several years, although it's been a long time since I saw them. If they had problems, I never saw it. They were always affectionate with one another. But I do understand what you and others are saying. I just figure if it works for them great. But I would say they, and the other couple I know are in the minority. The other couple is the real story. But I'll leave that for another thread.

Originally posted by MagesticEsoteric
reply to post by hp1229

 

Also, I disagree with your statement that fantasizing about others aside from a spouse makes one selfish...I think if I attempted to, and then actually fulfilled my fantasy...that would make me selfish. A fantasy is a thought. It's sort of like saying that if I think about robbing a bank then I'm automatically a criminal for merely having the thought. Just my cents though

Well i thought you were a guy too. That was based on the suggestion of the topic itself. Generally men are more likely to think about sex with someone other than their spouse.

I guess you're right that fantasizing is not a bad thing. However you know it is also grounds for divorce if you admit about fantasizing (watching porn) without the consent of your spouse? Moreoever if one has to be true to their own conscience then they should not fantasize about another woman while they are with one already. To me that is the truth and purity of a true love and relationship. I mean just because the spouse does not know about your fantasies doesnt make your conscience clean.

My own personal experience with men who desire such arrangements is that they tend to be effeminate. On some level they are aware of what a "proper" and healthy masculine/feminine exchange is supposed to be, but they are sufficiently feminine themselves that they are unable to provide the necessary masculine ingredients. So they arrange for those ingredients to be provided by another man who is more able to do so.

I'd have to agree that this is the same case with the folks I mentioned (where the one gal is married to one guy, but another live in "husband").... One of the guys is definitely less masculine than the other, so good call there.

reply to post by Gazrok


That makes sense, though. Imagine what the scene would be if you put two "alpha-male's" together in a relationship with one woman. I don't see that ever working. Just as in nature, one will "dominate" the other (I do use that term loosely to illustrate the point)

reply to post by LadySkadi


Yep, very true. Even in gay relationships, there is a dominant male or female assuming the male role, with the other as less dominant.

My wife and I kind of bounce back and forth in the roles...as we're dominant in different, but complementary areas. I'm more dominant in the traditional male roles, but there are other areas where she's the boss. My wife may like gals too, but she wants to be with a man, so it works. I've had the fun of the multiple gals thing before in my single days, so no real biggie if it never happens with the wife. But, would be a turn-on seeing her with another woman. On the recent cruise, during that one adult game (kind of like a dare game meets Monty Hall), I did see her get to make out with two gals, so that was fun.

One was a friend who was with us as part of a group. The task on that one was, first groups to come up and show them two girls french kissing. One of the groups had a young, cute lesbian, but nobody on her team would guts up, so the hosts said a gal from another team could do it for a point for our team too....so, my wife did... (hence the second gal smooch). We did win the game, and each of us got a bottle of Champagne (and we got another ship trophy). We're competitive like that.

my thinking, (I have done a fair amount of research about this)

one;
open / swinging is very hard, as people are pretty selfish and controlling. also, people don't really
and truly think about what they are about to do, or the ramifications of it. things like, having
sex with a friend or friends, etc really can mess things up. also, not really talking about EVERYTHING
well beforehand.

two:
I think, in a mature well trusted and well communicated relationship "games" can help, and add spice
and destressers. But, not thought out or carried farther than it was supposed to; will kill any relationship.


third:
fully open relationships are usually a really bad idea though in a few really extreme cases it can work. but, mostly it doesn't. what most people really want is some kind of "games" some that involve others and some that don't. that's where that communication comes in, finding out what you as a couple really want and what rules
and or boundarys you want.... like, do you want to just flirt? ie,, go to a dance club and mess around only in the club? or, foreplay only? also, things like this should be very very private and none of your circle of friends should be involved or know anything about what your doing, your private sex life should be just that private.

I do not see how people can say that because it is not the lifestyle for you than you or your partner carry insecurities or jealousy. I beleive that to be wrong. I for one would not engage in this type of lifestyle and I do not carry insecurities or jelousy. I know i am hot and I am a good person. If a person chooses to have this lifestyle that is entirely up to them.

A few years back I was approached by a man. He was my neighbour. He invited me over to watch a movie and while I was there he told me about his lifestyle he had on open raltionship and they were swingers. I felt disgusted and told him I would not be having sex with him I felt it would be unloyal to his gf even if they agreed before hand that it was alright. It was not alright with me. He thought he had the perfect girlfriend they are now broke up.

As for the nature versus nurture on monogamy. I do not beleive that was ever instilled in me, infact the opposite should be true, I watched my mom date around, married men, single men it really didn't matter, and I figured it out all on my own that relationships are a partnership and in my eyes it should be monogomous for me. It was not instilled in me i instilled this beleife on my own.

It is interesting to see that some people are calling people that are swingers the perfect wife or gem. I am a great lover experimental etc and if my partner were even to suggest that we become anything other than monogomous seriously, bye bye to him, after all there are lots of fish in the sea. I am set on my beleifs and values and I have the ablitity to change them, but there comes a point when right feels right and wrong feels wrong. I beleive that swinging ultimately leeds to pain, but I also beleive that if that is the choice someone makes than they are welcome to make their own choices, and I wish them well. People who cheat are disgusting to me because they are causing pain and being selfish, swingers on the other hand may ultimately cause pain, but it was consented upon and the risks were known.

What consenting adults get up to in private is no business of anybody else.

Seems to me that one of the biggest problems in this world is that far too many people want to impose their morals and prejudices upon everyone else.

reply to post by Freeborn

What consenting adults get up to in private is no business of anybody else.

True, but with a caveat. If there are others involved (i.e. an unknowing spouse of a cheater, children, etc.) that could be hurt...then it is most definitely their business to know.

At least swinging, open relationships, etc. are honest.

Originally posted by rainbow101
As for the nature versus nurture on monogamy. I do not beleive that was ever instilled in me, infact the opposite should be true, I watched my mom date around, married men, single men it really didn't matter, and I figured it out all on my own that relationships are a partnership and in my eyes it should be monogomous for me. It was not instilled in me i instilled this beleife on my own.

Interesting point on this. Our son who is 21 is married and has NO interest in anything but monogamy and frankly, never has. Our daughter is part of the normal 16 year old "boyfriend of the week" club. Dunno how she will work out yet