The 2012 Phenomenon (and why it is so VERY dangerous to perpetuate this nonsense...)

reply to post by OptimisticPessimist


16 year-olds, a relative said he is freaked out about 2012. He has a promising future in physics but the last year he has been obsessing over this crap. And it's not just him, others too.

Whatever, "Please, not the children" Isn't really much of a point for me, the kid needs to grow up, I realise that. But the people making money off of the craze is just stupid. And anyone pliable enough to spend money on it is equally stupid.

If there is information that is backed up, great, the sensationalism is something else though.

reply to post by LiveForever8


I posted my own thread on this...

HERE.

Sorry, but I felt compelled to get deep enough in the material to stick the information in it's own thread and not buried in someone else's.

~Namaste

reply to post by boncho

Very strong Opinions there mate.. and it's okay for you to have them.. but please do not bash us over the head with such sure statements of Opinion.

What happens IF.. an yes it's a BIG if.. something like Nibiru comes along entering the inner solar system? Or what if these current earth events continue on the rise until it reaches a peak and forces humans to live differently? What then? Would that not be the end of how we live on the world?

Would your Opinons then be useless? And if so will you be apologising to all and sundry who you have slighted in your newbie powered thrust to force your opinion here?

I'm really curious.. you see, at ATS the Onus for proof lay directly with the OP.. and I see no proof from you to back up your claims and Opinions, as yet. So I wonder how it is fair for you to call people names when you haven't fulfilled your duty as the OP?

Change is an inevitable fact. Nothing ever stays the same. Everything, everywhere is constantly changing, and will continue to do so.

This entire argument is (for lack of a better word) crap. "Prove it wont happen!!!!", "Prove it will happen!!!", "Prove this is a lie!!!!", "Prove it's not!!!!!." There is absolutely no undeniable proof of anything that has not yet occurred. Do I have any proof that next year is not going to be anything astronomically significant? No, I do not.

It is actually irrelevant where any of the ideas came from, because at this particular moment, events that may or may not occur in the future, are still nothing more than opinion. Prophecies and predictions, made from translations of ancient texts, by modern man. Even if the translations are 100% correct, and this is exactly word for word the way it was meant to be interpreted, it is still only a prediction. It is not an absolute.

There is a simple point. That point is to not spread the rumors of an inevitable doomsday event, that are so horrifically destructive, that some do not want to live another day out of fear that it could happen tomorrow, and they do not want to take the chance of being here in case it does. This has nothing to do with being prepared. Being prepared is not a bad thing, but this is far beyond being prepared.

There is one thing that is, without a doubt, a fact. There is a mass belief of fear that is now enrooted into millions (possibly billions) of people's minds, all around the globe. This belief, this fear, can very easily affect the path of the future.

Maybe nothing will happen in 21/12/2012. Instead it may happen this year!!

Awesome. Tired of waiting.

Going back to godlikeproductions. They are so much more doom friendly!

Double post. Phones are hard...


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I remember new years 2000 too... I remember not being the slightest bit worried... and I mean, not at all. Maybe I just knew that there was no way that, if the calendar on my pc reset, it would not initiate that pesky self-destruct sequence... And so why would the computers controlling nukes be so poorly programmed? As for the child questioning her meaning in life given her inevitable demise... Well thats life. We're all gonna die eventually. That does not mean theres no reason to live now. We are life. We tend to survive by means of many natural (if there is such a thing) ways we will never understand. As for 2012... We'll see when and if we get there... Just like tomorrow.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

My visual representation, that is the image that forms in my mind when I think about 2012 is the hour glass.
Not so much the idea of the sand running out but the shape of the glass itself.
The narrow channel in the middle where one side becomes the other side.
The passageway between the last and the next.
It's symbolic.

It is the strait through which we must pass to enter the future.
Futurists have seen it coming for a long time. Thomas Malthus, discredited though he may be, sounded an early alarm.

There is an old idea that as human civilization continued to develop there would come a time in the course of it's evolution that it would need to, once again as it has so many times before, change in fundamental ways in order to accommodate the next phase in it's existence.

Speculative fiction writers for decades have used the bottle neck concept to express the same concept.
Like it or not this is where we find ourselves. Poised between the future and the past.

Somewhere along the line someone found this Mayan calendar thing. He threw it against the wall and it stuck.
Over the decades since, more and more things keep sticking to it until now, many of us are so scared we can't think straight. We just need to remember it's symbolic. It's an idea. It's a meme. A very existential meme because it is blossoming in tandem with the reality of the civilizational metamorphosis through which we are passing. Like it or not.

We are foolish if we are not wary of those who will use this meme for their own gain. And they will, from the guy who sells tee shirts and maps to the places to go to avoid the devastation of the polar shift to those with their hidden(and not so hidden any longer) agendas for global domination.

We are in a period of flux. A period of drift. Our raft has passed through the calmer waters of history, entered the current of faster waters and is being pulled inexorably towards the rapids.
Like it or not. What will we choose?

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
This was not an end of the world prediction, it was a time of change, which is happening right now. End of story.

So it has nothing to do with the world ending? So my OP was correct in condemning those who propagate the myth that is does? Splendid.

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
P.S. I haven't read where this was a time of celebration.

“For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle,” says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. in Crystal River, Florida.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

I think you should find out what 2012 is about before having a rant. The scenario portrayed in a certain Hollywood movie is laughable, so too are the people who get their understanding of 2012 from such sources

Please enlighten me, what is 2012 really about?

reply to post by Tayesin

What happens IF.. an yes it's a BIG if.. something like Nibiru comes along entering the inner solar system? Or what if these current earth events continue on the rise until it reaches a peak and forces humans to live differently? What then? Would that not be the end of how we live on the world? Would your Opinons then be useless? And if so will you be apologising to all and sundry who you have slighted in your newbie powered thrust to force your opinion here?

Listen, I came to this site first, just after 9/11. Just because I didn't keep my account does not make me a 'newbie trying to force his opinion'. And if you remember, there used to be some crackpots on this site, but before spewing anti-government, TPTB, doomsday, and UFO rhetoric became mainstream, there were a few people providing good information.

The problem with alternative news source now is a high number of non-critical thinking people have jumped on the bandwagon. It is impossible to get any good information when people blatantly take false information as fact.

And, something I will address later in this post, there is nothing to suggest the world will end now or in a hundred years. So for Nirutu to show up or for the world to suffer catastrophic upset, it is no different playing the lottery. If you claim the "END" every year, than I better odds of being right.

However, if there is EVIDENCE, than I will support anything that is going on with the world, or alien planets, etc.

Very strong Opinions there mate.. and it's okay for you to have them.. but please do not bash us over the head with such sure statements of Opinion.

I'm really curious.. you see, at ATS the Onus for proof lay directly with the OP.. and I see no proof from you to back up your claims and Opinions, as yet. So I wonder how it is fair for you to call people names when you haven't fulfilled your duty as the OP?

Here is your proof.
Here is more.

Just Google the names listed in the second wiki article: Heaven's Gate, Order of the Solar Temple, and Peoples Temple

While you cannot show me evidence of the world ending, the human civilization ending, I can show you evidence that fraudulent claims of doomsday has a real effect on society and some of the ignorant members that choose to believe. Forget the "what about the children argument" That the OP posted and I commented on, because I do believe people have to figure these things out when they are young so they do not grow up suckers when they are older. However, from the first article, you can see that people have grown up as non thinking suckers and they've used with these fads to make money.

Who is to say that Microsoft knowingly released the y2k flaw to make money on the fix?

Also, any argument about the Mayans as proof because their calender ended is absurd. I have a calender from 1998 that ended in 1998, the world kept turning.

Any argument that worldwide disasters are going to end it in 2012 is ambiguous at best. Natural disasters leading to the World's demise could happen 2012,13,14,15,16.

And in fact, during times of war, disease, strife, throughout history, a number of people come out and say the world is ending because the outlook looks bleak. Think black-death times. Even though there are a multitude of potentially world changing or species ending threats in the world right now, there is nothing predicting they will reach full potential by 2012.

Also, any argument about the Mayans as proof because their calender ended is absurd. I have a calender from 1998 that ended in 1998, the world kept turning.

Absurd? why is it absurd? Because you have a calendar that date ended and the world didn't? A gregorian at that? Oh CLEARLY they are the same and represent the same concepts. (/sarcasm). The point of this is that what you said is absurd. What is a calendar? How we measure time? Time is relative though, and a word that we have created to represent CHANGE. So really a calendar represents change. The Mayans measured their change based on things like astronomy, astrology, and the cycle of the earth. And heres a little kicker, the Tibeten calendar is curiously similar to the mayan's. Now the Gregorian calendar that your silly little calendar that you've clearly used as a self persuasion tool ( before your use of it as a discredit tool, if even just subconsciously) was created by the Pope and the Vatican. Reputable source, sure, and yet they completely change they amount of time a year is, and other measurements of change. Possibly taking us out of universal harmony (If you subscribe to such thought).

Also i find it foolish that you base this statement on the comparison of a calendar that measures thousands of years of time, to your wall calendar of 12 gregorian months.

Now does this mean 2012 will be a mass extinction? No. Does it mean it cant happen? no, it certainly can, it has 4 times in the Earths history.... which may be what they were measuring in the first place? or may not be. Whichever you subscribe, try not to bite the brindle too hard.

reply to post by derst1988

Time is relative though, and a word that we have created to represent CHANGE. So really a calendar represents change.

It represents change? Is it not based on cycles? Does it not represent patterns in astronomical observations? Isn't that why people are claiming there are "alignments" happening?

Last time I checked my calender tells me how long it takes for the Earth to circle the Sun. There are four seasons in this period, four "changes".

If you hadn't noticed the Mayans largely vanished. .Please provide some information as to say the original prophecies were for anyone except the people of that culture.

reply to post by derst1988

Now the Gregorian calendar that your silly little calendar that you've clearly used as a self persuasion tool ( before your use of it as a discredit tool, if even just subconsciously) was created by the Pope and the Vatican. Reputable source, sure, and yet they completely change they amount of time a year is, and other measurements of change. Possibly taking us out of universal harmony (If you subscribe to such thought).

Where are the Mayans today?

Universal harmoney? Did the Mayans make sacrifices or no? I just want to know. Maybe I am ignorant on the matter, so if I am correct me. But making sacrifices doesn't really go with 'universal harmony'. And if that is the 'enlightenment' we are supposed to receive than I'll stick to the way things are.

reply to post by derst1988

Now does this mean 2012 will be a mass extinction? No. Does it mean it cant happen? no, it certainly can, it has 4 times in the Earths history.... which may be what they were measuring in the first place? or may not be. Whichever you subscribe, try not to bite the brindle too hard.

So it can or it can't happen? The world 'could' have run into another object for the past 5 billion years. That does not affect the outlook I have on my life or it. It doesn't lend credence to a 'spiritual awakening'.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by derst1988

 

Time is relative though, and a word that we have created to represent CHANGE. So really a calendar represents change.

It represents change? Is it not based on cycles? Does it not represent patterns in astronomical observations? Isn't that why people are claiming there are "alignments" happening?

Last time I checked my calender tells me how long it takes for the Earth to circle the Sun. There are four seasons in this period, four "changes".

If you hadn't noticed the Mayans largely vanished. .Please provide some information as to say the original prophecies were for anyone except the people of that culture.

Are cycles not based on change? You see, your question and method of argument are not well planned with this statement. Although your points about the gregorian measure night & day, four season's, does hold interesting debate. Keep in mind that even scholars admit that the mayans representation of change is "more precise" than our own Gregorian. Why is this? Where did we go wrong, where others were more precise. The answer is in the months, or so i believe.

Do some reading on the 13 months of the year. (

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by derst1988

 

Now the Gregorian calendar that your silly little calendar that you've clearly used as a self persuasion tool ( before your use of it as a discredit tool, if even just subconsciously) was created by the Pope and the Vatican. Reputable source, sure, and yet they completely change they amount of time a year is, and other measurements of change. Possibly taking us out of universal harmony (If you subscribe to such thought).

Where are the Mayans today?

Universal harmoney? Did the Mayans make sacrifices or no? I just want to know. Maybe I am ignorant on the matter, so if I am correct me. But making sacrifices doesn't really go with 'universal harmony'. And if that is the 'enlightenment' we are supposed to receive than I'll stick to the way things are.

There are mayan leaders today, speaking about 2012. As to where they went? technically nowhere. They were conquered. Their books burned, save for a few. Many south american people have mayan ancestry but not raised with mayan theocracy.

It would seem they did, and lets remember that before we judge we must understand. If they did indeed make sacrifices (animal or human) it very well could fit into "universal harmony". We just choose to make our sacrifices in the form of violence and war. At any rate, i digress with modern sacrifices. Many cultures worldwide talk of a balance of forces. One cannot exist without the other. Evil, Good. Yin, Yang, & Karma. Forgive me, i dont know (or really care) what your religion is or isnt as mine is that all are one, but why would anybody from ancient times do all this work, if it wasnt based on something that was actually there to measure?

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by derst1988

 

Now does this mean 2012 will be a mass extinction? No. Does it mean it cant happen? no, it certainly can, it has 4 times in the Earths history.... which may be what they were measuring in the first place? or may not be. Whichever you subscribe, try not to bite the brindle too hard.

So it can or it can't happen? The world 'could' have run into another object for the past 5 billion years. That does not affect the outlook I have on my life or it. It doesn't lend credence to a 'spiritual awakening'.

Yes it could happen, and yes it may not. The thing about it is, your trying to choose an answer, when thought is based on input, or relevant truths. The universe and even our planet is all beyond our relevance, so why try to "know" the answer. Speculate on all things. To "know" anything is to be prideful and egotistical.

No you shouldn't live your life as if the world is going to end tomorrow, cause lets face it, if it did. You either die, and your energy is recycled, or you live and probably live in a "back to our roots" type of environment in which case anything you do now will be negligible. I do think it to be wise to be humanitarian, and nice to your fellows. Try to search yourself and master your mind, ect. but none of this matters except that you will realize that none of this really matters.

reply to post by LiveForever8


This topic should be sent to the trash .

show us hard evidence to debunk 2012 .

If you think it's another poor mans y2k .

Its your own opinion .

reply to post by derst1988

You see, there are 13 moons in a year, yet were told theres 12 months and one is a "blue moon". Not technically blue. Just in nomenclature. It takes the moon 27.3 days to orbit the Earth. It does this 13 times. Something the Gregorian does not subscribe too without altercation (see blue moon). Many ancient calendars subscribed to this. Seasons from the sun, months from the moon type of thinking.

Hence all the different lunar calendars, which are used all over the world. No one is claiming any magnificent prophecy from these (well, some do...)