The 2012 Phenomenon (and why it is so VERY dangerous to perpetuate this nonsense...)

Where to start? hmm. alright target acquired and preparing for launch. The FACTs of the matter are simple. We KNOW nothing. Everything from our idea of scientific laws to the words of a fictitious best seller all hold the same credibility. Why is this? Oh he must insane. blah blah, read some Wittgenstein and open the brain a little.

Reality. Relativity. They are the same. Far too few people look into their "truths" due to it being what is relevant to them.

Our brain works kind of like a computer. Information is data, and with only one source of input, the output can not be different. I mean, really how do we know anything we know at all? Research shall be the answer. What is necessary in order to do research? Thought, in turn shows itself to be the key. Where does thought originate from? Perception initiates thought. What do we perceive? We perceive that which is in our surroundings, otherwise know as what is relative to us. Please note that surroundings does not necessarily mean your desk chair, bedroom, office, home, but it does include.

We are guilty of lies. Every single scientific law or cannon, razor, ect is false. This is because it is based on thought, so therefore it is not a law, it is how we perceive the event or information. Sure, some things are more plausible than others, but to claim to know anything to an absolute is ignorant.

"Oh but your wrong, for i can duplicate my results over and over again so it must be truth!" ...No, simply no. All you can duplicate is the output of an idea based on the same set of inputs.

How does this all relate to the thread? Easy. Some are calling for others to not use certain input sources. Sure you have a right to ask this, and if questioned it will be defended by others or even by myself. The people willing to step out and explore these new inputs have the right to do this as well and once again will be defended.

2012 is not relevant to our society (although it seems to want to be), but it sure was to many ancient cultures. So once again our relativity train begins. Who's on board? Destination: Truth. Layovers: Fiction, Laws, Life, Sacred texts, Ancient relics, misguided relevance, and a whole area full of bull# (on both sides).

Why should we limit our power to think and be free, because someone else lets themselves or someone in their care become falsely scared. Scared of what? thought? Death? Pain? Horror? Joy? Bliss? Relevant truths? ALL of these things will happen, one way or another. Too limit your life and let other control it is why we are having this debate at all, and let me just say that to let others delegate how you think, is more than just wrong. It goes against human rights, which is really what the Constitution is based on.



Edit in PS: Side note, is it not possible that the reason Y2k was blown up so big is so that people would dismiss the important discusion in the future? Who hyped it up? mostly MSM, who is controlled by whom? Answer that, think about it, and share your answers with yourself.

Very insightfull post.

Why should we limit our power to think and be free, because someone else lets themselves or someone in their care become falsely scared. Scared of what? thought? Death? Pain? Horror? Joy? Bliss? Relevant truths? ALL of these things will happen, one way or another. Too limit your life and let other control it is why we are having this debate at all, and let me just say that to let others delegate how you think, is more than just wrong. It goes against human rights, which is really what the Constitution is based on.

reply to post by derst1988


Exactly.

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
Rant forum.

Not at all. Do you think every OP that doesn't agree with your blinkered world view is a rant? I thought I was quite calm and reasonable in my writing approach and even provided links and background information to bolster my belief.

Go and look at some of the threads in the rant forum, they are something else all together.

What is this if it is not "Discussion and speculation related to the potential end of the world prophecies surrounding the year, 2012?"

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
Like I posted earlier, in your ending statement you discouraged people to post new threads, and implied that they should censore themselves in order to spare a certain audience?

Was that a question or a statement?

I merely suggested that new thread makers thoroughly consider the repercussions of their threads. Are you really happy with the standard of threads in the 2012 Forum? If I was a believer I would be embarrassed.

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
Do you call that promoting an open discussion?

I think it would be much better for the Forum as a whole, yes. Many people just completely ignore this forum because of the utter crap that is posted here. If some of the believers really wanted to persuade others that this is an actual phenomenon they would take the time to present a thread that really makes an impressive case for it. Of course, they don't. Because they can't.

So instead, we have thread after thread of Youtube videos showing "Nibiru" or 32 suns and that is supposed to be good enough.

What makes you believe in the whole 2012 phenomenon?

I've been saying this 2012 crap is bad for months. No one listens.

reply to post by LiveForever8


You can't argue with the fact that the year 2012 will happen. You can't argue with the fact that the world will change in the future either. Times change, and every year we cal the year the year 2011, or the year 2012. I think it sounds really silly when people are telling me "2012 is not going to happen".

There are many very credible predictions around the year 2012. Nostradamus predicted a meteor will hit on that date and according to NASA there was going to be one, but now they changed it to 2029 or something. None the less, there is a fricking meteor the size of Texas aimed somewhere near us. We might have to deal with that someday. It will probably be a thing.

I explain to people over and over again that the way the Mayan calenders work is that they switch to a different calender on 2012 December due to the astrological changes but people insist on plugging their ears. They don't want to hear that it's not the Apocalypse.

Are there going to be people who react to these predictions? From what I can see yes, there already has been survivalists who in my opinion fairly intelegently prepare for a rumor of a serious life changing event, but foolishly invest everything they have into it like some people I saw on the news who took out loans for it because money will be gone. I don't think it's smart to spend all your money on an event that might not come, but it is to invest a bit of money on a bit of food with or without an up coming Apocalypse regardless. You can always eat the food later, and there are food shortages. People have grown to reliant on our little infrastructure that they have forgotten how to truly take care of them selves without being spoon feed.

But from what I can see the people's reaction to 2012 will be the none stop voices of the Tea Party type people who will run on and on about how 2012 never happened even though clearly it was the year 2012 and no one said exactly what was going to happen just that it would be worth it to keep an eye out for and that it was mentioned in ancient writings, and even though deep inside some of them if not many believe it and are putting out this energy in hopes that the Apocalypse will come.

It says very clearly multipull times throughout history in different articles... that in 2012 the astrology will change. This is a fact and you can't argue with the facts. NASA confirms this, and anything about Niburu if not confirmed by NASA has been blacked out by NASA...

No body credible AT ALL has said any thing about the Apocalypse in 2012. Nostradamus mentioned it would happen in 3017. Where are they coming up with this? They keep saying "The Apocalypse is never going to happen in 2012". Cool story, that's not what anybody was saying except for them. They need to actually use their eyeballs, fingertips, and brain and go look it up like the rest of us.

There is 100% nothing wrong with investigating the Apocalypse, it's when you want to bring forth it that it becomes a problem.

reply to post by LiveForever8


You can't argue with the fact that the year 2012 will happen. You can't argue with the fact that the world will change in the future either. Times change, and every year we cal the year the year 2011, or the year 2012. I think it sounds really silly when people are telling me "2012 is not going to happen".

There are many very credible predictions around the year 2012. Nostradamus predicted a meteor will hit on that date and according to NASA there was going to be one, but now they changed it to 2029 or something. None the less, there is a fricking meteor the size of Texas aimed somewhere near us. We might have to deal with that someday. It will probably be a thing.

I explain to people over and over again that the way the Mayan calenders work is that they switch to a different calender on 2012 December due to the astrological changes but people insist on plugging their ears. They don't want to hear that it's not the Apocalypse.

Are there going to be people who react to these predictions? From what I can see yes, there already has been survivalists who in my opinion fairly intelegently prepare for a rumor of a serious life changing event, but foolishly invest everything they have into it like some people I saw on the news who took out loans for it because money will be gone. I don't think it's smart to spend all your money on an event that might not come, but it is to invest a bit of money on a bit of food with or without an up coming Apocalypse regardless. You can always eat the food later, and there are food shortages. People have grown to reliant on our little infrastructure that they have forgotten how to truly take care of them selves without being spoon feed.

But from what I can see the people's reaction to 2012 will be the none stop voices of the Tea Party type people who will run on and on about how 2012 never happened even though clearly it was the year 2012 and no one said exactly what was going to happen just that it would be worth it to keep an eye out for and that it was mentioned in ancient writings, and even though deep inside some of them if not many believe it and are putting out this energy in hopes that the Apocalypse will come.

It says very clearly multipull times throughout history in different articles... that in 2012 the astrology will change. This is a fact and you can't argue with the facts. NASA confirms this, and anything about Niburu if not confirmed by NASA has been blacked out by NASA...

No body credible AT ALL has said any thing about the Apocalypse in 2012. Nostradamus mentioned it would happen in 3017. Where are they coming up with this? They keep saying "The Apocalypse is never going to happen in 2012". Cool story, that's not what anybody was saying except for them. They need to actually use their eyeballs, fingertips, and brain and go look it up like the rest of us.

There is 100% nothing wrong with investigating the Apocalypse, it's when you want to bring forth it that it becomes a problem.

reply to post by LiveForever8


I´ll say it again, what do you guys expect. The whole concept is considered crazy by many. And now people are arguiing that it´s taken to far? How far can you go from extinction level event to worse.

Might as well come out and say down with the 2012 forum. The day we have start considering our audience on a conspiracy forum is the day that free speech dies.

Jeah, it´s definately a rant.

It´s like in the 911 forum when they say that all the conspiracy talk is insulting to the families of the victims.

My worldview, I see you have already assumed my worldview, is not relevant, my problem is that you are promoting self censorship.

You may deny it, but you are.

IMO,

People who live in fear of the end (whether its 2012 or beyond) are not really living. If the parents of the children cannot take time to educate them on the possibilities then its the parents fault if the child becomes depressed or suicidal.

Is 2012 the end of the world as we know it? I REALLY hope so, I hate the world as it now stands with the elite taking every penny from the lower classes and waging wars without any premises. And since I do not live with the fear of death (or fear of reprimand upon death for a life for a "sinful" life) I don't find myself being scared at all. Whether 2012 is an ascension, and end of everything or a nothing moment, I am not going to sit here in a corner and cower.

But I also do not (nor would my child [I'd ask her but she is only 18 months]) believe the 2012 doomsday scenario, mass extinction, ect. ect. I think that anyone with the right amount of understanding of the stories of the ancient civilizations would understand by now that people will survive, earth will survive. Fresh start for our planet (poor planet needs to be rid of our parasitic nature for the sake of monetary gain). But change NEVER comes easily, there needs to be a tipping point. 2012 is Earth Restart. Let's see what happens.

BTW, I would much rather my family be prepared for ANY circumstance rather than be caught up in the mass hysteria that would occur if TSHTF. I don't live anywhere near the ocean, but its a good idea to have a plan in case of a flood. I don't live near any volcanoes/fault lines but my family needs to be prepared for such events to occur. What's the harm?

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


I just find it quite sad that, in an OP that raised what I believed to be some important and interesting psychological side effects of the 2012 phenomenon, all you can talk about is the 2/3 lines at the end where I asked for promoters of this tripe to be more vigilant in what they post.

Have any of your posts so far been on topic? Maybe. Barely.

Oh well, life goes on

reply to post by LiveForever8

I just find it quite sad that, in an OP that raised what I believed to be some important and interesting psychological side effects of the 2012 phenomenon, all you can talk about is the 2/3 lines at the end where I asked for promoters of this tripe to be more vigilant in what they post.

Were these lines not the conclusion and overall message of your post?

Once again, what is acceptable to post in your opinion? The whole subject is not fit it seems. Please set some boundaries.

I acknowledge your anecdotal examples of kids having problems, but what are the underlying issues? Problems are caused by lots of things.

Kids suffer because of divorces. Should people be more vigilant when they divorce?

Think back to the Cuban missle crisis or the cold war, every child in America was terrified of being nuked.
Scientits say that the sun will burn up and devour our planet.
Scientists say that a comet or astroid can hit us at any moment.
Scientists also say that "the big one" is coming in Ca, all just a matter of when, not if.
None of these things caused mass panic in the streets. People still went about their daily lives, just like they are now.
Now according to the OP, all these things were just fearmongering and they should have been stopped from spouting such lies.
The Mayans, along with many others, are not predicting the end of the world, only a significant change. Ummm...
if I'm not mistaken, it's happening right in front of our eyes. I'm sure I don't need to point these things out because you'd have to live in a hole not to notice.
Fact of life: We could all die at any moment.
If there are kids out there worrying about this, it's up to the parents to comfort them and educate them. Kids should be more worried about getting good grades, not watching you tube.

ive read a lot about ALL the things that have to do with 2012, i dont belive most of them, wonder about the rest

what has happened is i have stocked up on food, survival gear,weapons and ammo and thought about what i would do when TSHTF

its not fear, its knowing im prepared, i live in losangeles, and also i live near a major fault line, they have been telling us for 20 years its over due to move, so whats wrong with being prepared???


everybody should be prepared for a major disaster, if it dont come, then good but if it does, your ready!!!



be safe people

reply to post by viperdave


Exactly!!!
We have all we need in case of a tornado. Every spring, I get our safe place ready for disaster. I was injured in a F5 in a ditch when I was 12. Our family was not prepared at all. Majority of people all thought "not here" well....they were wrong.
I believe that experience taught me to never be caught with your pants down.

reply to post by LiveForever8

The 2012 Phenomenon (and why it is so VERY dangerous to perpetuate this nonsense...),

Who are you kidding.

Your title clearly implies that every post about 2012 brought forth is nonsense and that it should stop as a whole.

You are arguiing against the existence of this very forum, and therefore, trolling.

I Agreed with the OP. THIS IN NOT FUNNY ANYMORE,this kind of rumors can affect the most vulnerable mindsets.Is just a rumor brcause somebody think that the MAYA DIALECT can be translate easily and effectively,this language or dialect,is one of the most intricate to translate because all they use are ideograms,and the sounds to interpret are just unknown.BUT like in any case some genious thought that it should work the same way AS THE EGYPTIANS ,but is not the case. IM afraid that thanks to mistakes people start acting crazy,REMEMBER GUYANA????AND THE PASTOR JIM JONES??

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


ive never lived in a tornado area and can only imagine what stress there would be...........ive been through a few big quakes and its not fun

whether its niburu,zombie apocalyps,tornados,earthquakes, volcanos, huricanes,wildfires,floods or just a bad hair day!!.....................its allways safe to be prepared

"ITS BETTER TO HAVE IT AND NOT NEED IT!................... THEN TO NEED IT AND NOT HAVE IT!!!"



BE SAFE PEOPLE

reply to post by LiveForever8


Do some research outside of ATS before you make such childish and outlandish claims....

There are always people who will take advantage of a situation and try to profit from it, so get over it... 2012 is perfectly ripe for the picking by cons and whackos because it is immersed in misunderstanding and controversy. You are just adding to the problem, not the solution.

2012 is about CHANGE, PERIOD. What is that change? Nobody knows for sure at this point, but it is not the end of the world.

With any great change, there is good and bad. This is a fact, not a myth or a story. Astronomy and cosmology are based around scientific observation. To this day, we can't explain how ancient cultures had this wisdom, but they did, and with it, they were able to make predictions in much the same way that we predict eclipses and seasons today. What they predicted for 2012 was major changes, and with them, some will be impacted negatively while others are positively. You don't have to look very far to see these changes happening today... there is more going on today in the world than ever in history, and not just because the media says so, but because there really is a LOT going on.

If anything is dangerous to perpetuate, it's you pretending to believe that you know what will happen in 2012 any more than anyone else does, and makes your claims no different than the people whom you criticize.

Just my $.02.

~Namaste

well we don't have much longer until we find out what is nonsense and
what is true ! 2012 is right around the corner! something is not right
can't you feel it ? birds dying , fish dying, today in california as a matter of fact! millions! unexplained , earthquakes everywhere more frequent and higher in magnitude! strange weather ! snowing in spring! how many state of emergency's have been declared this year so far? things are getting progressively worse ! the sun is getting more active, volcano activity increasing! all of this since january ,can you imagine the state of the world in 2012 ? people
saying nothing will happen it is ALREADY happening all around us!
doom in 2012 doesnot have to come from nibiru ! if this trend so far
this year continues ... i would hate to see the state of the world in 2012. ok i'm done.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
2012 is about CHANGE, PERIOD. What is that change?

It is? Says who?

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
What they predicted for 2012 was major changes, and with them, some will be impacted negatively while others are positively.

Who is they?

Where was this predicted?

Originally posted by truthseeker1984



While the science on this topic is sketchy at best, b
-truthseeker

Astrophysics is not a sketchy science. Using astrophysics one can compute the location of any given celestial body at any point in the past, present, or future. That being said it is impossible that some sort of extra solar planet can careen through our solar system based upon the calculated orbits of the planets. There is simply no way that a celestial body could swing through or solar system.

As for the other ideas about 2012 all I can say is research them and the actual core facts about them. The core facts of astrophysics rule out any sort of "Niburu" type event and I would venture to say there are core facts to help dispel the majority of the 2012 postulations.