On the Kabbalah. On Esoteric “Secrets.” A Luciferian Perspective. On the Prophet of the New Aeon

Originally posted by Lucifer777
I did not create this world; this economic and religious hell on earth is not my fault; it is not my doing; I can only offer a Final Solution, and the only practical economic Final Solution I know of will require terrible and deadful measures, in the short term.

But you do create your PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of the world you live in.

You experience economic hell now?

Only YOU are to blame for that. You create the experience with your beliefs, emotions, actions.

Do you not realize this?

YOU trapped yourself in an economic hell.

Your playing the victim game.

Sure, we don't live in a "perfect" world, but the key is to adapt and be positive. Positive energy is part of creating. Negative energy is descrution.. You advocate negative energy and destruction based on needing wars to get your way.

Good luck in your economic hell

Our economic situation is better than its ever been!

ABUNDANCE FOREVER~!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ThreeThreeThree

Originally posted by Lucifer777
I did not create this world; this economic and religious hell on earth is not my fault; it is not my doing; I can only offer a Final Solution, and the only practical economic Final Solution I know of will require terrible and dreadful measures, in the short term.

But you do create your PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of the world you live in.

You experience economic hell now?

Only YOU are to blame for that. You create the experience with your beliefs, emotions, actions.

Do you not realize this?

Perhaps you might actually consider reading what you are replying to before you respond.



My statement "I did not create this world; this economic and religious hell on earth is not my fault. refers to a planet with 7 billion people in it, where around 200 million are almost always on the verge of starvation. I do not personally live in economic Hell. I live in the UK which is one of the richest nations on earth, though I have travelled throughout the kingdoms of Hell. For the average Capitalist, as long as they can create an environment of heaven around them, usually that is all they care about. Perhaps the term "the world" to them is just their own little experience bubble.

Lux.




_______________

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
.
...., but Christ is my power and source, and inspiration. If I had time to relay the dream I had last night, you'd understand,

Dreams are very subjective. A Christian may spend a day in church and in the evening dream of Jesus. A Hindu may spend a day in Temple and dream of Shiva. Last night I was watching Schindler's List again on satellite TV, and in the morning, when I awoke I was in the middle of a very powerful dream about the very same subject. People commonly remark "I don't want to watch that, it will give me nightmares" because they intuitively understand that there is a relationship between waking memory and the dream world.

and come to see that the only way to be powerful enough to bend history, even as a lone individual, cannot occur through rebellion against the Christ, but instead in vaquishing Satan or the "Devil"

It seems to me that you are simply suffering from the common effects of Christian hypnosis and indoctrination, and like many other Internet Christians, you seek to spread this memetic virus to others. There are so many "Christs (theocratic kings)" in the world today, and the term "Christ" refers to so many different persons, from the Masonic Christ to the numerous New Age Christs; all of whom have to be considered separately; needless to say I reject all such Christs and even the institution of theocratic monarchy itself; it is this demand for a "Christ (i.e., a world saviour, a king of kings, a global theocratic dictator) which is part of the problem, not the solution.

If I assume that by Christ you are referring to the Jesus of the Gospels, I find myself always repeating the same points in a discussion about this particular Christ.

The Jesus of the Gospels is a fictional and fabricated character. The New Testament is a 4th century fabrication and a collection of texts derived from "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviours, together with a record of the doctrines orated by them (Life of Constantine)." Rather than just repeating and restating, I refer you to my essay on this, "Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent? The New Testament: A Fabrication, created for Social Control and Mass Hypnosis. The Conclusions of Historical and Textual Studies of the New Testament. on: forum.davidicke.com...



The Second Coming of Christ: a genocidal global theocratic tyrant (i.e., a king of kings).

Poll seem to indicate that almost half the US adult population may be waiting for the return of a person depicted in the Bible as a genocidal global tyrant (i.e., Jesus). A great many American Christians appear to be of the "Henry Makow" variety; they are anti-Communist, anti-Jewish, homophobic, anti-feminist, and the various brands of "conspiracy-theory-ism" they adhere to, appear to me to be the definition of ignorance. The modern American Christian Neofascists have an ideology which is remarkably similar to that of the Nazis.



If we consider this Christian Christ (i.e., Jesus) at his first coming, here depicted was a fake healer and fake miracle worker who promoted strict adherence to the primitive and savage Mosaic Law, which among other matters, would legalise human slavery and sex slavery; and his "love" for his god, referred to a genocidal, sadistic Bronze age deity. Further a Christian is expected to also be a fake healer and fake miracle worker and prey on the sick and the vulnerable; it is simply the "model" of a religious charlatan; this is what "Christ-lke means" by Biblical definition.

If we consider this Christian Christ at his second coming, this refers to a genocidal dictator who will carry out a literal holocaust of all non believers, where the "chaff" are allegedly to be cast into the fire, and who will instigate a global war where even during just one of the many military campaigns described in the Book of revelation, a third of the world's population are to die.

The problem with this is not that the fictional "Jesus" will return, but that there are numerous other religious schizophrenics in the world today who seek to incite such genocidal prophecies; however it seems to me that thus far, it is Adolf Hitler who has come closest to attempting to fulfill the vile and diabolical prophecies of the Book of Revelation; however in the nuclear age, I expect that much worse is to come .

The Final Solution.

Thus I ally myself ideological with the millions of Socialists and Communists in the world; the Marxists, Anarcho-Communists and all progressive movements "must" by necessity be similarly ideologically apocalyptic and genocidal; for our many enemies are also similarly genocidal. "Peace" is an impossibility if there are still genocidal Muslims, Christians and the assorted chaff of ideological Capitalists in the world.

, which has been accomplished time and time again under the observation of many watchers and observers. I'll return and post more later, but true power and influence comes through an authentic theological framework which is workable, not in rebellion against the supreme being and ruler of the universe, who rules not by fear, but with love.

The Christians have never established economic heaven on earth through their theocratic monarchies, and they have had 16 centuries to manifest this and all we find is a history of slavery, war, tyranny and the creation of economic Hell on earth.

Rebellion against the "Supreme Ruler of the Universe" defines Christianity; their deity is anyway just a Bronze Age tribal deity, and one of numerous such deities. If I were to attempt define such a deity I would limit it to my own human reason, and this definition appears in the OP (Original Post) of this thread, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the numerous transcendental definitions of the professional hypnotists of organised religion.

The Biblical deity is the anti-thesis of love, and is more accurately described by Richard Dawkins as "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (Richard Dawkins, "The God Delusion").



Christian Doublespeak

That which we revere and evoke, we tend to become; thus those who consider this psychopathic, genocidal Bronze Age deity to be the definition of absolute goodness and love, tend to take upon such psychological qualities themselves; thus when they speak of "love" it is really doublespeak to the non Christian and a private definition. Almost every song on the radio is about love; but the Christians define love in a very different way, and it is a humanist's definition of absolute total hatred.

Because you see, I no longer have any enemies, and Christ is my ally, and the catalyst by which the Great Work is being done even now this very day.

If you ally yourself with the Biblical definition of a deity who incarnated in the fictional Jesus and, who is expected to return again as a genocidal theocratic dictator, then I can assure you that you have millions of enemies, including myself and that you declare yourself an enemy of human kind, of human nature and of Mother Nature Herself. Your enemies surround you; that you cannot see them or that you are unaware of them, does not negate their existence. Jesus will not save you from the terrible and dreadful curse which you and other Christians have placed upon yourself, and which none but you can lift.

Lucifer
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Lucifer777
This obsession with the fictional Jesus is just infuriating; the fictional Jesus is portrayed as a fake healer and fake miracle worker who promoted strict adherence to the primitive Bronze age laws of Moses. He was an archetypal primitive religious fanatic and the tribal deity god he revered and claimed to love was a genocidal human hating psychopath. Same old; same old.

Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy etc.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

In the original Hebrew text, this does not refer to the Roman deity Lucifer, who was the male counterpart to Venus. Venus was a Roman love goddess and a planetary archetype which represented feminine love, feminism, maternalism, motherhood, the erotic nature and power of the female, etc. Lucifer was merely the male counterpart to the Roman love goddess. The Biblical text above, in contrast, refers to a Bablylonian tyrant.

I find it troubling that as I try to grasp the workings of your mind, that I might perhaps understand you and your position, I am always greeted along the way with blatant deception. Are you purposefully setting out to be perceived as the stereotypical "Lucifer the Devil" of Evangelical imaginings?

The etymological roots of the term "The Devil" are quite different to that of Lucifer. The Devil in old English is "deofol (an evil spirit)" and "Devil" is likely be a bastardisation of the French "De Ville;" de being the French possessive and "Ville" being a town or a city; thus the modern fictional "Cruella De Ville (Cruel of the City). Towns and Cities have always been considered places of evil by the countryside dwellers. Where I live in the Somerset countryside, the Pagans (countryside dwellers) still believe that the "townies" are devils.

However one defines "Devil" etymologically, the term has nothing to do with the archetypal Roman deities Lucifer and Venus. However it is unsurprising that a Christan would define the Roman archetypes of love, Venus and Lucifer as devils or as a demoness and demon, since their Bronze Age deity is the antithesis of human love..

The Devil in the Tarot is essentially a "Capricorn" archetype, whose planetary ruler is Saturn, and which has both malevolent and benevolent qualities. Saturn and Venus are two different archetypes which have been bundled together by Christians. The Devil inversed is of course a definition of "slavery," including mental slavery, and this defines the Christians who are enslaved to a concept of a diabolical and malevolent deity which despises humankind and human nature. The Devil inversed is also essentialy a definition of the "God of Capitalism" which is the diety of the Christians; it is a vile, hateful deity which is the deity of an economic slavemaster.

Again I will clarify your blatant lies about Christ as he is represented in the New Testament.

1. The fictional Jesus is portrayed as a fake healer. - No, he is actually portrayed as a geuine healer. His healing abilities is what lends credibility to his testimony to the people. Had he not been a healer, his testimony would be that of a crack pot and he never would have achieved the status he did in the story. So, whether he was real or not is irrelevant. He was "portrayed" as a genuine healer. Anything less would simply not make sense.

2. And fake miracle worker - Again, this would not make sense in his story. If he performed fake miracles, the people would have rejected him. The miracles in the story must have been real to those in the story for them to accept his testimony. Anything less simply does not make sense.

I have already dealt with this matter previously with you; just repeating the same nonsense over and over does not make it any less nonsensical.



In ancient times, stage magic and religion were entwined, and it was common for stage magicians to claim to have "special powers." If Penn and Teller, David Copperfield, David Blane or Derren Brown were to perform their stage magic 2000 years ago in ancient Israel, I am quite sure that they too would be considered gods, by the relatively uneducated, and prescientific masses. In the modern world however, when a rational, scientific, educated person witnesses Pen and Teller's stagecraft, they do not rush out and build temples to them and worship them as objects of idolatry; however this kind of phenomenon of combining stagecraft with religion is still commonplace in Christianity, and throughout India, Africa and the Third World.



Further, the miraculous powers of Jesus, according to the Gospels, were allegedly to be imparted to his followers who were similarly expected to carry out such miracles; this practice continues today by numerous Christian charlatans who prey on the sick and the vulnerable, and yet who are doing nothing more than following the edicts of the Jesus of the gospels to perform fake miracles and healings.

There is a million dollar reward offered by the James Randi Institute (Randi is a professional stage magician) for proof of such miracles, and all of the professional Christian Christian charlatans are welcome to apply and attempt to prove that they can miraculously cure blindness, leprosy or raise the dead.

Rather than just endlessly restating myself, I refer you to my prewritten position on such matters.

________________

The Seven Signs.

Lucifer


"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
Mark 16.

Consider the 7 Signs of those who are allegedly "not" condemned according to the Gospel of Mark

1: You must believe.
2: You must be baptised.
3: You must be able to perform exorcisms.
4: You must be able to speak in New Tongues.
5: You must be able to pick up serpents.
6: You must be able to safely drink any deadly poison.
7: You must be able to lay hands on the sick and miraculously cure them.


If you do not have the 7 signs, you are allegedly condemned by the first century religious fanatic and fake healer Jesus and you won't get to spend all eternity with other fake healers and religious charlatans.

It was also stated by the Jesus of the Gospels that you would do even "greater things than he."

I think that the "belief only" theology was possibly developed because the professional Christian hypocrites realised that many of the teachings of Jesus were either too hard or impossible to follow.

We know that Christians cannot safely drink poison or miraculously cure leprosy and blindness, and since the professional Christian hypnotists know this also, they have just developed this much easier "belief only" theology, where you just become a rambling religious fanatic, talk incessantly about the teachings of Jesus, and yet reject the teachings of Jesus, apart from a few ethical maxims about love and so forth, which were common to that era; it is really just all about "believing" and about acting like a total hypocrite and being eternally rewarded for that.

Unfortunately many professional hypnotists of the multi-billion dollar Jesus business do claim to be able to perform miracles and simply prey on the sick, the elderly, the disabled and the vulnerable.

Literary and Historical Criticism of the Bible.

A common response to the 7 signs is to argue that this text is a later addition to the Gospel of Mark; however this is generally just a "selective" argument which ignores the overall conclusions of Biblical historical and literary criticism; if such an argument is accepted, one may as well discard the entiretly of the Bible as an edited, re-edited and fabricated document. More on "Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent? on: www.davidicke.com...

The Dialogue Fallacy

The "dialogue" fallacy is a common fallacy used by Christians who simply selectively "cherry pick" and "quote mine" the Gospels for statements which they agree with and statements which they reject; those statements which they reject (such as no shoe wearing, no money carrying, no more than one robe, obey the (Mosaic) Law and the Prophets) are often responded to with the "dialogue fallacy," which is essentially the position that "some" of the unpopular teachings of the allegedly unchanging, perfect Jesus (whose teachings will allegedly last till the end of time) are not relevant today, and were only relevant to his contemporaries to whom he was referring; the "dialogue fallacy is a "fallacy" of course, because "all" of Jesus's teachings are in the form of dialogues where he was addressing other persons; thus one might as well reject the entirety of his teachings on this basis

Lux

"The criticism of religion is the premise of all criticism." Marx

_________________

3. Who promoted strict adherence to the primitive Bronze age laws of Moses - Once more you are blatantly misleading people with this statement. It is not true and I have demonstrated this to you in other threads as being untrue. This would make you a liar for you speak what you know to be untrue. So, for clarity, Christ did not promote strict adherence to Mosaic Laws. In fact, in his Sermon on the Mount, he starts out listing laws which he clarifies. Here, see for yourself, again:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt. 5

In the context of the Judaic religion of 2000 years ago, the phrase "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" is a clear reference to the Mosaic Law (the 613 laws of Moses), and the prophets is a clear reference to the numerous other Old Testament Laws and to the Judaic "Oral Law" which was later written down as the Talmud.

Since Christianity has become an anti-Jewish phenomenon, such teachings have of course been rejected by Christians, since Christianity anyway represents the anti-thesis (opposite idea) of the teachings of the Jesus of the Gospels, and of the stated religion of Jesus (i.e., Judaism). A Christian is essentially a religious hypocrite whose beliefs are based upon a cherry picking of the Biblical texts, in order to promote their own personal beliefs, prejudices and misinterpretations. The younger generation of Jews in the 21st century are among the most educated ethnic group in the world and most of them no longer revere Moses and the Old Testament prophets, but rather modern Jewish prophets such as Marx, Chomsky and numerous other modernists.

With Love,

Your Brother

There is nothing loving about the sadistic and psychopathic, paternalistic (male supremacist) Biblical deity. Further since this is the "secret societies" subform and you have indicated in threads on the "conspiracies in religion" subforum that you are also a Freemason; I can assure you that "Christ" in Freemasony is "not" at all the historical Jesus and refers to a living person, whose identity is not revealed to most initiates and "especially" not to those who are traditional Christians or Gentiles (i.e., non Jewish.)," whom, as I understand it, are simply considered to be "useful idiots."

I will be off the Internet for a few days, and may respond further on my return.

Lux

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt. 5

Forgive me for not addressing your full post. It seemed to me to be more smoke and mirrors to divert from the fact that you have no idea what you are speaking of. So, I cut straight to the section you seem to be confused about.

The Law which Christ came to fulfil is God's Law to love one another. The commandments referred to in the quote are Christ's commandments, not those of Moses.

Regardless, I see that your cup is full and you prefer to drink of your own wine. Though I know it be poison to your heart, I shall not take it from you nor shall I imbibe. If it is yours to drink and wallow in drunkenness then it is mine to leave you to it.

I hope that the effects wear off soon, for the real party is just about to begin.

Take care my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt. 5

Forgive me for not addressing your full post. It seemed to me to be more smoke and mirrors to divert from the fact that you have no idea what you are speaking of. So, I cut straight to the section you seem to be confused about.

The Law which Christ came to fulfil is God's Law to love one another. The commandments referred to in the quote are Christ's commandments, not those of Moses.

Regardless, I see that your cup is full and you prefer to drink of your own wine. Though I know it be poison to your heart, I shall not take it from you nor shall I imbibe. If it is yours to drink and wallow in drunkenness then it is mine to leave you to it.

This is a perfect example of Christian hypocrisy; they are "always" without any exception I have ever been aware of, only interested in twisting the text to suit their own personal brand of hypocrisy, misinterpretations, beliefs and conspiracy theories.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

It is quite clear that Think not that I am come to destroy the law" does not refer to his own teachings and laws (which the Chirstians reject and are openly hostile towards anyway), but to the pre-existant Mosaic Law, which was the Law which was revered, partly at least, in the religious environment of first century Israel. By "the prophets (plural)" he is clearly referring to the Israelite prophets and not to himself.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so" clearly is applicable to modern Christians who are openly hostile to most of the Judaic Laws and to most of the stated teachings of Jesus, apart from usually a few phrases here and there, around which they construct their fabricated religion based upon thier own personal beliefs and prejudices.

Christianity is simply a definition of hypocrisy.

Lux

Signing of the Interent for a few days.

reply to post by Lucifer777

It has been said that the Christ-mind is like an empty Buddha Bowl first filled with Hermes.

Your bias is showing. Don't ASSUME.

I also look forward to the second coming of the Christ, of he who was, who is and who is to come.

But don't assume, there again, that you already know everything.

Christ, the work of the Christ in the world, this restores a sense of humor, and recreates or regenerates the possibility of creative play and fun, something you appear to know nothing about.

Like I said before, it's an issue of love and the capacity for love and for forgiveness. It's a principal personified. You lack understanding in your arrogance, and I know you're a bit of a hurting unit. If I could, even as a Christian I would befriend you, and accept you, but you woudn't allow that, which is sad for you. There is no possibility with you for any mutual understanding, because you think you've got it all worked out.

In truth however, all that's required for newfound mutual understanding, and therefore Civilized progress on the path of progress towards perfection is: honesty, willingness and openmindedness, free from contempt, prior to investigation.

Prayer for you Lucie. I hope you know that Christ is lucifer btw, the bearer of light and the bright morning star of enlightenment.

Yours is a house divided, and that which you resist, persists.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

It has been said that the Christ-mind is like an empty Buddha Bowl first filled with Hermes.

Your bias is showing. Don't ASSUME.

I also look forward to the second coming of the Christ, of he who was, who is and who is to come.

But don't assume, there again, that you already know everything.

Christ, the work of the Christ in the world, this restores a sense of humor, and recreates or regenerates the possibility of creative play and fun, something you appear to know nothing about.

Like I said before, it's an issue of love and the capacity for love and for forgiveness. It's a principal personified. You lack understanding in your arrogance, and I know you're a bit of a hurting unit. If I could, even as a Christian I would befriend you, and accept you, but you woudn't allow that, which is sad for you. There is no possibility with you for any mutual understanding, because you think you've got it all worked out.

In truth however, all that's required for newfound mutual understanding, and therefore Civilized progress on the path of progress towards perfection is: honesty, willingness and openmindedness, free from contempt, prior to investigation.

Prayer for you Lucie. I hope you know that Christ is lucifer btw, the bearer of light and the bright morning star of enlightenment.

Yours is a house divided, and that which you resist, persists.

Wow, great reply my friend. You beat me to it, so I will leave you to it.

See ya around the threads!

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Lucifer777

I'm honestly trying to figure a way to be civil, but at the same time show you the error of your way.

That is probably one of the most famous misused quotes. You earlier talk about about the mistranslations, but what about misquotation. So many non-Masons take quotes out of context. You say from a single quote from a large book that you can label so many Masons as holding "fake, purchased, or franchised" degrees. That's rather insulting and ignorant on your part. I am also surprised that you would quote a man.

To make such a statement that all public degrees are low level is just a ignorant and generic lie. It is true, it takes time and study to understand all the meanings of Freemasonry, but it includes more than just reading books. It takes going through the degrees as well.

The number 33 does have special significance in the Scottish Rite (really the French Rite), but the York Rite (American Rite) does not follow such numbers. The Holy Royal Arch Knights Templar Priests (HRAKTP) has 33 degrees, but I believe you only receive the last one. You could ask Masonic Light as he is a member, I'm a member of other York Rite bodies. The HRAKTP is just one several invitational bodies in the York Rite. Not to get into the politics of it all, but the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar, USA, just chartered a Grand Priory of the Rectified Scottish Rite, and thus adding another order to the York Rite.

Though guilty myself from time to time, I hate use of the word "pagan" when discussing those who practiced ancient religions. Pagan from the word "paganus" means country dweller. With the spread of new religions through trade routes, urban areas were usually introduced to them first while the country folk (pagans) stayed to the older religion.

This could have been a rather interesting piece except you mix in your prejudices get the best of you. You're clearly blinded and thus will never attain that which you seek. If you view those that follow God as slaves then you are as misguided about the relationship than you are with Freemasonry, which is a great deal.

The Grand Master of the UGLE is not the representative for Freemasonry around the world! How do you not get this? Not everyone joins to further their career. Maybe a few, but not the majority.

Craft Masonry is male only, but it's also a "fraternity". The OES is co-ed of course and then you have such organizations like the Daughters of the Nile and Social Order of the Beauceant. The wives are not "pets and sex slaves". How dare you say such a thing about someone you know nothing about. You assume too much.

As for the prop from the catalog, what degree or order is that from?

Yes, most Masons are good moral men of God. I'm pretty sure the Bible even speaks about men of your caliber in the Bible. I think in Revelations you pop out of the ocean at some point. God, you must have done a lot of drugs.

reply to post by Lucifer777

To pull off my Mason hat and put on my political hat, what the American government has done for the last several decades is not fiscal conservatism. I'm all about de-porking the federal government (thereby re-establishing its authority bound by the US constitution) and reigning in the spending. I also wanted them to let the banks and businesses fail. I do not support bail-outs as that is not capitalism. That is pseudo-nationalism.

As a soldier, I agree with cutting spending, but in a responsible sense (mostly with the contracting system in Congress). I also wish for the US to withdraw the troops from around the world and place them along the borders of the US, which also allows for some shrinking of the military size, but doesn't pose a danger to our national security and sovereignty.

Hi Lucifer777

I am relatively new to ABS amd am enjoying many of the posts, especially your opener very much. Thank you for so much information.

Ever since Christianity was coupled to our royalty with its stronghold on our politics, a form of slavery that British pride probably cannot admit to itself has been going on. One only has to think of the wealth accrued by our monarchy, that certainly does not aid the public coffers when needed. One of the things I don't think you mentioned, sorry if wrong, was that a large number of Mason's come from the Police, which means all the necessary 'equipment' to maintain this basically 'laugh at you general public' attitude, was put in place long ago.

I do have a problem with the desert religions Priesthood, Mr Ratzinger, on tv or in pictures, absolutely makes my skin crawl, as do a number of these 'gentlemen' from across the board. There is something about those religious people that dress in a way that IMHO indicates they think everyone should be informed that they have sensitivities, that you will acknowledge and certainly won't challenge.

I don't have a problem with Christ himself, from the perspective of some of his reputed teachings. He seems to me to have fought the Priesthood. He spent his time in the Synagogue and the surrounding countryside which makes me think, he was aiming his teachings at the locals. It was actually the Priesthood who had adopted Yahweh whom initially the people did not want on his own. However that Pagan Pantheon was deliberately made up of 12 Gods/Goddesses whose contributions balanced and thereby aided the synergistic blend of Godhead. This put the Godhead out of kilter by unleashing only one concentrated aspect from that pantheon. IMHO that is why Christ worked to teach compassion, care for our neighbours etc that had clearly been forgotten.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

It has been said that the Christ-mind is like an empty Buddha Bowl first filled with Hermes.

Your bias is showing. Don't ASSUME.

I also look forward to the second coming of the Christ, of he who was, who is and who is to come.

But don't assume, there again, that you already know everything.

Christ, the work of the Christ in the world, this restores a sense of humor, and recreates or regenerates the possibility of creative play and fun, something you appear to know nothing about.

On the Second Coming of Christ. On the Messianic prophecies. On the Neofacist Messianic cults of the 21st Century.

You claim to be looking forward to the "second coming of Christ," and some polls indicate that almost half the American population are expecting this event also. For millions of literate, modern, scientific, rational, educated person to believe that Jesus will ressurect from the grave is not just like millions of adults believing in Santa Claus, since Santa Claus is harmless myth, whereas Christianity is a genocidal and militant faith.

Of course, the dead body of a fictional 2000 year old Judaist religious fanatic and fake miracle worker will not resurrect from the grave; further this event was anyway supposed to have happened before his disciples had gone through all the towns of Israel; thus even if such an impossible event happened, it would have happened in the first century, and there is no memory of the event. Since he did not return as promised, the later Book of Revelation appears to have been written to extend this date to a future time.



To restate; the danger of holding such a Messianic expectation, is that the Christ depicted in the Book of Revelation is described as a theocratic dictator; a global tyrant; a king of kings. Thus the political philosophy of a Christian is by default, ultimately that of theocratic tyranny, and by the description in the New Testament, this would be a totally genocidal tyranny where unbelievers would be subjected to a literal holocaust. Further in the prophecy, this theocratic tyrant and his armies are expected to initiate a global apocalyptic war, where in just one of the many military campaigns described in the Book of Revelation, a third of the world's population die; this would currently be over 2 billion people.

There is certainly no danger of "Jesus" himself actually resurrecting; the problem is that here are numerous persons in the world today who claim that they themselves are the new "Messiah;" and further that many of these Messianic cults have incredible weath, and frankly in a nuclear age, it is entirely possible for a relatively marginalised cult to initiate an Armageddon scenario; indeed this is what Shoku Asahara attempted to do. Since this is the "secret societies" forum, I should point out that Freemasonry is also one of these numerous Messianic cults.



The Christian expectations of a Messiah have anyway nothing to do with the 2000 year old anti-propertyist and anti-monetarist Israelite who promoted a fundamentalist adherence to the Judaic Law, since the Christians in general tend to be anti-Communists, anti-Jewish, and they certainly would not take kindly to the primitive and savage bronze age laws of an ancient African tribe.

Like I said before, it's an issue of love and the capacity for love and for forgiveness. It's a principal personified.

Unfortunately a religious fanatic can always hold numerous different contradictory beliefs; there are a few passages from the New Testament which represent popular humanist ethical edicts from the first century, however this does not define the Biblical deity, who is a primitive and savage, genocidal war god, whose prophets predicted future global apocalyptic war and the eventual genocide of all non believers, and anyway, adherence to the Mosaic Law, would itself have genocidal consequences.

You lack understanding in your arrogance, and I know you're a bit of a hurting unit. If I could, even as a Christian I would befriend you, and accept you, but you woudn't allow that, which is sad for you. There is no possibility with you for any mutual understanding, because you think you've got it all worked out.

No, there is no possibility of friendship; I tend not to befriend religious fanatics and Neofascists. Mutual understanding is another matter; my understanding of religious fanaticism is based on a lifelong study of the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination, the study of the long and bloody history of religious tyranny, etc. Unfortunately, since Christianity is and has been a militant and genocidal religious phenomenon, it requires a similarly militant response; thus I choose to ally myself with the militant ideology of the Communists; the Communists and the religious fanatics cannot both prevail in the end; one must eradicate the other for their own survival.

In truth however, all that's required for newfound mutual understanding, and therefore Civilized progress on the path of progress towards perfection is: honesty, willingness and openmindedness, free from contempt, prior to investigation.

My investigation into Christianity has been ongoing for many years, my judgement has been made and my contempt fro Chirstianity is well deserved.

Prayer for you Lucie. I hope you know that Christ is lucifer btw, the bearer of light and the bright morning star of enlightenment.

I am quite well aware that Christians consider their first century religious fanatic Messiah to be a model of enlightenement; that is a problem since it is a pre-Enlightenment model of a more savage and primitive past. There is nothing "enlightening" about the psycopathic Biblical deity, and those who revere such a psychopathic human hating deity as a model of absolute goodness, tend to take upon such characteristics themselves.

Yours is a house divided, and that which you resist, persists.

A Biblical fanatic will always have a mind divided and which can accept numerous contradictory beliefs; this is contrary to the modern philosophical method.

Doublespeak.

Unfortunately my discussions with Biblical fanatics tend to always end up with me stating and restating he same points and with the fanatics responding by rambling on incessantly about Jesus and love for his psychopathic human hating god. What is essentially comes down to is different definitions of goodness; the Biblical definition of goodness being a humanist's definition of absolute evil.

Lux



______________________

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

I'm honestly trying to figure a way to be civil, but at the same time show you the error of your way.

That is probably one of the most famous misused quotes. You earlier talk about about the mistranslations, but what about misquotation. So many non-Masons take quotes out of context. You say from a single quote from a large book that you can label so many Masons as holding "fake, purchased, or franchised" degrees. That's rather insulting and ignorant on your part. I am also surprised that you would quote a man.

I was not being critical of Pike; I was merely agreeing with his stated position, since this is my own impression of Masonry. Yes I consider the Masonic degrees to be "fake" degrees. These are of course, not degrees of a compass, but degrees of knowledge; they are no different to the numerous fake degrees, such as fake BA's, BSc.'s, MA's and PhD''s which one can buy on the Internet for a few dollars; one merely obtains a certificate to hang on one's wall for amusement only. None of the Masonic degrees which cult fanchises sell are "accredited." Further I consider them to be "fake degrees" in the sense that they do not impart the 33 Kabbalistic degrees, which of course is a knowledge that is common in the Neopagan movement and which lines the shelves of every esoteric and New Age bookshop. I do not in general find Freemasons to be knowlegable in this respect, unless they have gleaned their sources from outside Masonry.

To make such a statement that all public degrees are low level is just a ignorant and generic lie.

It is my judgement based on numerous interactions with Masons and upon reading their various writings and rituals; they mostly seem to be entirely confused about what their degrees are supposed tor repesent; thus the point of the OP is to explain this. Obviously you are here to defend the Masonic product in the multi-billion dollar marketplace, and your posts on other threads here show that you have a cult "groupthink," where you are unable to accept any criticisms of your cult.

The number 33 does have special significance in the Scottish Rite (really the French Rite), but the York Rite (American Rite) does not follow such numbers. The Holy Royal Arch Knights Templar Priests (HRAKTP) has 33 degrees, but I believe you only receive the last one. You could ask Masonic Light as he is a member, I'm a member of other York Rite bodies. The HRAKTP is just one several invitational bodies in the York Rite. Not to get into the politics of it all, but the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar, USA, just chartered a Grand Priory of the Rectified Scottish Rite, and thus adding another order to the York Rite.

Whether a Masonic Lodge, has 3 degrees, 10 degrees, 33 degrees or 38 degrees, with regards to the meaning of these "degrees" of knowledge, I refer you to my original essay which seeks to simplify and clarify what this knowledge is; I am quite aware that many Masons dispute the Kabbalistic basis of their cult, and this only further establishes my point that the Masons are generally ignorant of such matters which tends to be "hidden" in confusion from he majority of Masons.

This could have been a rather interesting piece except you mix in your prejudices get the best of you. You're clearly blinded and thus will never attain that which you seek.

I am clearly critical of Masonry; and you are clearly a victim of cult mind control; any person criticising your cult is likely to be considered to be prejudiced and "blinded" by you.

If you view those that follow God as slaves then you are as misguided about the relationship than you are with Freemasonry, which is a great deal.

The Grand Master of the UGLE is not the representative for Freemasonry around the world! How do you not get this?

It is quite fair to judge a cultist by his cult leader, just as we would judge the Korean Moon cultists by Moon himself; people who join Masonry in the UK arr not unaware of who the puppet cult leader is, although I do concede that the Duke of Kent is only the "puppet" aristocratic leader, and that most of you have no idea who your actual cult leader is. If I told you that person X, Y or Z was your cult leader, you would have no way to confirm or deny that.

Not everyone joins to further their career. Maybe a few, but not the majority.

In the UK there is simply no other reason why anyone would join the Masons; it is the essentially the cult of establishment Capitalism.

The wives are not "pets and sex slaves". How dare you say such a thing about someone you know nothing about. You assume too much.

You and I are coming from two different traditions; my background is the British Neopagan and Neowiccan movement, which is predominately female, whereas yours is Freemasonry which is paternalistic (male supremacist) and exclusively male; you have no preistesses and your brand of spirituality is thus imbalanced; I simply consider you to be Kabbalistic heretics with an antiquated Capitalist cult in the business of buying and selling pompous titles. Your wives, strippers and prostitutes whom you employ for your Masonic functions are simply submissive slaves, who seem to have no part in your cult's rituals.

Yes, most Masons are good moral men of God. I'm pretty sure the Bible even speaks about men of your caliber in the Bible. I think in Revelations you pop out of the ocean at some point. God, you must have done a lot of drugs.

In Biblical terms, there is simply no such persons as "good moral men of God," as far as I define the term "good." You are simply using religious doublespeak, as far as I am concerned; a person who revers the psychopathic, genocidal human hating definition of the Biblical deity is obviously psychopathic themselves, and morally subhuman, worthless and wretched in my judgement.

Lux

edit on 13-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Additional response

Originally posted by Lynda101

Ever since Christianity was coupled to our royalty with its stronghold on our politics, a form of slavery that British pride probably cannot admit to itself has been going on.

Unfortunately; Messianic Judaism and Christianity, are monarchistic faiths; after all, a "Messiah" is simply a saviour king; but this also begs the question of who is to be saved and who is to die, and the Biblical laws are very specific about that.

One of the things I don't think you mentioned, sorry if wrong, was that a large number of Mason's come from the Police, which means all the necessary 'equipment' to maintain this basically 'laugh at you general public' attitude, was put in place long ago.

Yes, in the UK they are a Capitalist gang who have encouraged recruitment among the police and military. This is quite normal for Capitalist gangs.

The level of penetration of crime in Russia is unprecedented. An article on the front page of Izvestiia on January 26, 1994, reported that the Russian Mafia now controls 70 to 80 percent of all private business and banking. The Russian Mafia seems even more pervasive than its Sicilian counterpart
www.questia.com...

The Kremlin's spy agencies have such a close relationship with top organised criminals that Russia has become a "virtual 'mafia state'," the cables say. The gangsters enjoy secret support and protection and in effect work "as a complement to state structures".

A senior Spanish investigator alleged to the US that Moscow's strategy was to use "organised crime groups to do whatever the government of Russia cannot acceptably do as a government". Recent operations included gun-running to the Kurds "in an attempt to destabilise Turkey" and "arms trafficking" in the mysterious Arctic Sea cargo ship hijacking in 2009..........

On 13 January 2010 Gonzalez, a special prosecutor for corruption and organised crime, .....said Russia, Belarus and Chechnya – the Muslim republic of Russia run by a pro-Moscow president, Ramzan Kadyrov – were "virtual 'mafia states' ". Ukraine was "going to be one", he predicted. He spoke shortly before presidential elections in Ukraine won by the pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych. The country is now back under Moscow's sway.

"For each of these countries … one cannot differentiate between the activities of the government and OC (organised crime) groups," Gonzalez told the US delegation.

...He further alleged there were proven ties between the Russian political parties – all of which support the Kremlin – and "organised crime and arms trafficking".

www.guardian.co.uk...

In Russia, just like in the UK, there is very little conflict between the police and the major Capitalist gangs of bankers, drug money launderers etc., simply because the major Capitalist gang recruits the police. It makes perfect sense for any Capitalist gang to recruit members of the government, the police and the judiciary, and almost all major Capitalist gangs do this, from the Mafia to the Triads, to the Yakuza.

I don't have a problem with Christ himself, from the perspective of some of his reputed teachings. He seems to me to have fought the Priesthood.

There is a major popular misconception regarding this matter which is clearly stated in the Gospels, his objection to the religious establishment was not that they were too liberal, but rather that they did not adhere sufficiently to the letter of the rather primitive, savage and potentially genocidal (were such laws to be reintroduced) Mosaic Law; this is clear to anyone who has read the Gospels, but the Christians do not like to be reminded of this since they only cherry pick the Mosaic Law for things which suit their own personal prejudices and bigotry.

It was actually the Priesthood who had adopted Yahweh whom initially the people did not want on his own. However that Pagan Pantheon was deliberately made up of 12 Gods/Goddesses whose contributions balanced and thereby aided the synergistic blend of Godhead. This put the Godhead out of kilter by unleashing only one concentrated aspect from that pantheon.

The Roman and Greek pantheon, for example, certainly had much more balanced male and female astrological and psychological archetypes, but the Biblical deity was deity who demanded totally exclusive worship on the penalty of death.

IMHO that is why Christ worked to teach compassion, care for our neighbours etc that had clearly been forgotten.

You wil find ethical humanist teachings such as the Golden Rule in all the three major religious texts (the Koran, The Bible and the Vedas), and in the writings of many philosophers, but our three major world religions all have genocidal war gods, they are all primitive blood sacrifice cults and have numerous other barbaric aspects which are entwined with such humanist ethics; this makes them all the more dangerous. Similarly one could criticise Hitler, but a Neonazi may speak of his humanitarianism, his social reforms and his great "love" for the German people. Similarly with the Bible, when one points to it's barbaric laws, and it's psychopathic, genocidal tribalistic war god, just like a Nazi, the Christian Neofascist will generally point to some other totally innocent passage. We do not judge persons harshly by the innocent things they do and say, but by the evil things they do and say, and we should apply this to the Biblical texts also.

Apart from Biblical passages which are downright evil; many of the Biblical laws are just downright stupid; such as Jesus command that no person should every eat figs.





Lux

From: www.evilbible.com...


The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



1) Capital Punishment Crimes:



Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)




Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)



Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)



Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)



Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)



Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)



2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)



Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)



Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:



Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)



God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)



Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



3) Murdering Children



Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)



God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)



Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)



God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)



Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)



God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)



More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



4) Miscellaneous Murders



More of Samson's Murders

(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)



Peter Kills Two People

There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)



Mass Murder

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)



You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)



The Danites Kill the Next Town

But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)



God Kills Some More

Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)



God Promises More Killing

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)



The Angel of Death

My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)



Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)



Killing at Jericho

When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)



God Kills an Extended Family

"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)



Mass Murder

The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)



The Angel of Death

That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)



Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)



Kill the Family of Sinners

And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)



Kill Followers of Other Religions

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)



Murder

At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)



Kill All of Babylon

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)



Micah Kills a Whole Town

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

reply to post by Lucifer777

But your opinion of the quote is misplaced. You are taking the quote out of context. You're opinion is unfounded nor are you qualified to say what is accredited and what is not in regards to Freemasonry.

It may be your judgment, but it is an opinion nonetheless, and an opinion is not fact. I take criticism of Freemasonry when its due, but not from the likes of you.

The Duke of Kent has no authority over me. What part don't you get that he is only in charge of the British Freemasons? He has no authority over my Grand Lodge nor any other Grand Lodge than the one he was elected to preside over. There is no global Master over all Freemasonry.

I can list all the presiding officers in the Masonic bodies.

Freemasonry is a fraternity, but instructs to be chivalrous to women. Freemasonry is not a religion and thus does not have any need for Priestesses. That is very rude to call my Brothers' wives whores and prostitutes!! My girlfriend would knock the # out of you for saying such a thing.

Well, your moral compass is so off, I'm not surprised you are confused about who is moral and who is not.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

But your opinion of the quote is misplaced. You are taking the quote out of context.

This is simple contradiction; it is not sufficient as an argument, to make the case that the quotation was taken out of context; an argument would show "how" the quotation was taken out of context and explain the true context.

Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity.

The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehensible as the Sohar.

So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray. There is no sight under the sun more pitiful and ludicrous at once, than the spectacle of the Prestons and the Webbs, not to mention the later incarnations of Dullness and Commonplace, undertaking to "explain" the old symbols of Masonry, and adding to and "improving" them, or inventing new ones.

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma.
www.sacred-texts.com...

With regards to Pike's "Morals (correct action; good behaviour, etc.) and Dogma (correct teachings)," I am aware that anti-Masons, most of whom probably have not read the text, use selective quotes from the text; however I have a different judgement of the text to the anti-Masons. I conisder myself to be merely ideologically anti-Capitalist and opposed to all forms of organised religion, rather than wishing to be defined as an anti-Mason.

In the introduction to Morals and Dogma, Pike admits that the writings are not his own, but are a mere compilation borrowed from numerous other sources; thus avoiding the charge of plagiarism, without using the established academic method of citing sources. Thus the work should be considered to be a compilation of writings and ideas which Pike admired and added to. If Morals and Dogma can be taken as an insight into Pike's general philosophy and beliefs, then it is flattering to Pike.

I have a separate essay on Morals and Dogma, which I may post, once revised. The text of Pike's compendium is certainly a "Great Work," and a syncretism of philosophical knowledge, political philosophy, moral maxims, and aspects of the knowledge of the ancient mystery religions, thus I consider it unworthy of the work to deal with it in a brief response hidden in the many pages of a debate on other matters.

Unfortunately I do not consider the behaviour of the Freemasons of the 20th and 21st centuries to accord with the general philosophical and religious thesis of Pike's compendium; on the contrary I consider the modern Masons in general to act quite contrary to the general principles expressed in Pike's work, and I could give numerous examples, but that is another essay; much of which would probably merely be a summary of Martin Short's "Inside the Brotherhood" which concentrates on the financial activities of the Masonic gang.

You're opinion is unfounded nor are you qualified to say what is accredited and what is not in regards to Freemasonry.

It may be your judgement, but it is an opinion nonetheless, and an opinion is not fact. I take criticism of Freemasonry when its due, but not from the likes of you.

We shall, therefore, be just in judging of other men, only when we are charitable; and we should assume the prerogative of judging others only when the duty is forced upon us; since we are so almost certain to err, and the consequences of error are so serious. No man need covet the office of judge; for in assuming it he assumes the gravest and most oppressive responsibility. Yet you have assumed it; we all assume it; for man is ever ready to judge, and ever ready to condemn his neighbour, while upon the same state of case he acquits himself. See, therefore, that you exercise your office cautiously and charitably, lest, in passing judgement upon the criminal, you commit a greater wrong than that for which you condemn him, and the consequences of which must be eternal.

Morals and Dogma

A judgement is a subjective discernment of good and evil; a judgement is never a material fact, but a conclusion based upon observation and evidence.

You do "not" appear to take criticism of Freemasonry when criticism is due. You responses on the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters," on: www.abovetopsecret.com... appear to indicate that. When I posted that essay on a British "secret societies" forum, the British Freemasons on the forum distanced themselves from these two organisations and condemned them, whereas the Masons on this forum have generally rushed to defend these organisations, and have attempted to portray endemic misbehaviour and corruption as the work of a few bad apples, and you have taken a similar position on that thread.

As regards to whether I am "qualified" to sit in judgement upon Masonry, there is no academic qualification which gives one person the right to judge another; I believe my judgement on Masonry to be fair; they are most certainly not the "worst" of the Capitalist gangs; they are only one of many, though Freemasons in the UK tend to be "the" most economically powerful of the gangs of Capitalism, and thus are bound to attract attention and criticism.

The Duke of Kent has no authority over me. What part don't you get that he is only in charge of the British Freemasons? He has no authority over my Grand Lodge nor any other Grand Lodge than the one he was elected to preside over. There is no global Master over all Freemasonry.

The Duke of Kent is the overt "cult leader" of a major established body of English Masons; I have not suggested that he is the "actual" Messianic "King of Kings" of the cult, since by the definition of the term "Secret King," the identity of the secret king of Masonry would be a secret. There has been widespread speculation about who this secret Masonic “Christ” is, and I don't wish to join in that speculation; the Royal Secret is of no major interest to me; once your secret King of Kings dies, he will be replaced by another and another; his name is not important; my own claim to such a title is merely satirical. I have never went through the Masonic degree system and I hold most modern Masons in contempt, as I consider the central motivation of most Masons to be the accumulation of Capital.

Freemasonry is a fraternity, but instructs to be chivalrous to women. Freemasonry is not a religion and thus does not have any need for Priestesses. That is very rude to call my Brothers' wives whores and prostitutes!! My girlfriend would knock the # out of you for saying such a thing.

I did not refer to Masonic wives as "whores and prostitutes," however I do commonly refer to the institution of marriage as "legalised sex slavery" or "legalised prostitution;" that is not an arbitrary derogatory insult; it is a descriptive position taken by many radical feminists, polyamorists and Anarchists, and if this offends male supremacists and the supporters of the instuitution of slavery, it is intentional.



In many parts of the world, especially in the Islamic and Hindu worlds, and in much of the Third World, marriage is an extreme form of enforced sex slavery. In Western Christendom, marriage is an economic arrangement where the women agree to cease to follow their heart and their nature, and to devote themselves to a life of enslavement by a single male; it is an unnatural state for a woman, who find themselves in slavery due to economic necessity and established custom.



Masonry is clearly a prefeminist, antiquated, paternalistic (male supremacist) cult, and this is entirely obvious. Your women play no role in the pantomime, male only, rites, and appear only on ladies nights to present themselves as obedient (to the male) dutiful wives and mothers; domestic slaves and exclusive sex slaves essentially. They are not the modern, feminist, liberated Babalon archetype of the New Aeon movement; they are domesticated creatures and quite the opposite of the High Priestess. Masons here do not seem to find the idea of American Masonic functions where strippers and prostitutes are in attendance to be objectionable, however if their stay-at-home wives were to behave in such a way, I am quite sure that this would not be considered a model of a good Masonic wife.

Well, your moral compass is so off, I'm not surprised you are confused about who is moral and who is not.

Yes we obviously have different definitions of "correct morals" and "correct dogma;" the guardians of the esoteric tradition are not the modern Masons, whose usefulness has been surpassed with the coming of the New Aeon movement. In my younger days, I could not help but walk into a bookshop and see the vast array of Masonic titles written by both Masons and anti-Masons, and I consider this to be part of my ancestral and memetic legacy. I have had to come to my own judgements on the matter, and I have had different esoteric and cult influences in my life to most lifelong Masons, whom I consider merely a pantomime cut and a Capitalist gang. I don't consider it appropriate to place anyone beyond criticism, especially myself, however what I find here on this forum, are Freemasons engaged in cult defence, by any means necessary, and who exhibit the usual kind of "groupthink" and gang mentality of a cult religion, and who simply cannot accept criticism of their cult.

The inability to accept criticism and to be over-defensive is not the sign of a great mind, and my judgement on the American Masons in particular is not positive overall; it just seems like a silly, male only, cult for paternalists to behave badly and to to hang out with prostitutes and strippers and which have rather inane rituals and hazings. We are all guilty of misbehaviour and foolishness, but this appears to be endemic in American Masonry; it is just business as usual.

Men Behaving Badly

Even if the many positive philosophical ideas and moral edicts of Pike's "Great Work" were adhered to by Masons, I would still be critical of the essential paternalism of the work, and his paternalistic view of God; it is a perspective which most of our male ancestors we guilty of however. The Masons seem to be trapped in the past, and seem to be a very hypocritical organisation, since Masonry seems to be antithetical to the more progressive elements of Pike's syncretic (derived from numerous sources) mixture of wisdom.

The kings of old often left their sons to be foolish and pursue their whims, and chastened their path over time. We are all in that process. We are kings all queens of the earth who have been cut out of the rough stone of the fool. Of course it all ends up with judgement and death. We are imperfect and flawed because we are designed that way. We were all fools as children and have carried some of these aspects into adulthood. None are wise who were not once fools, and there is "no fool like an old fool;" however foolishness, malevolence and incorrect ideology seems to define the modern Mason. My impression thus far in 52 years here, is that the Masons seems mostly to be old fools, who can quote a line or so from numerous philosophers to justify their foolishness, but they seem to have descended into institutional foolishness and selfishness. It is a sad state of affairs. The fool become king often cannot bear criticism, and the Masons are certainly kings of Capitalism, but the wisdom of the ages seems to have little effect on their behaviour. I judge them generally as arrogant, pompous and selfish old fools whose God is the God of Capitalism, and my judgement of them is fair and based upon their behaviour.

Though Masonry is identical with the ancient Mysteries, it is so only in this qualified sense: that it presents but an imperfect image of their brilliancy, the ruins only of their grandeur, and a system that has experienced progressive alterations, the fruits of social events, political circumstances, and the ambitious imbecility of its improvers. After leaving Egypt, the Mysteries were modified by the habits of the different nations among whom they were introduced, and especially by the religious systems of the countries into which they were transplanted. To maintain the established government, laws, and religion, was the obligation of the Initiate everywhere; and everywhere they were the heritage of the priests, who were nowhere willing to make the common people co-proprietors with themselves of philosophical truth.

Because true Masonry, unemasculated, bore the banners of Freedom and Equal Rights, and was in rebellion against temporal and spiritual tyranny, its Lodges were proscribed in 1735, by an edict of the States of Holland. In 1737, Louis XV. forbade them in France. In 1738, Pope Clement XII. issued against them his famous Bull of Excommunication, which was renewed by Benedict XIV.; and in 1743 the Council of Berne also proscribed them. The title of the Bull of Clement is, "The Condemnation of the Society of Conventicles de Liberi Muratori, or of the Freemasons, under the penalty of ipso facto excommunication, the absolution from which is reserved to the Pope alone, except at the point of death." And by it all bishops, ordinaries, and inquisitors were empowered to punish Freemasons, "as vehemently suspected of heresy," and to call in, if necessary, the help of the secular arm; that is, to cause the civil authority to put them to death.



When the thirst for wealth becomes general, it will be sought for as well dishonestly as honestly; by frauds and overreachings, by the knaveries of trade, the heartlessness of greedy speculation, by gambling in stocks and commodities that soon demoralizes a whole community. Men will speculate upon the needs of their neighbors and the distresses of their country. Bubbles that, bursting, impoverish multitudes, will be blown up by cunning knavery, with stupid credulity as its assistants and instrument. Huge bankruptcies, that startle a country like the earth-quakes, and are more fatal, fraudulent assignments, engulfment of the savings of the poor, expansions and collapses of the currency, the crash of banks, the depreciation of Government securities, prey on the savings of self-denial, and trouble with their depredations the first nourishment of infancy and the last sands of life, and fill with inmates the churchyards and lunatic asylums. But the sharper and speculator thrives and fattens. If his country is fighting by a levy en masse for her very existence, he aids her by depreciating her paper, so that he may accumulate fabulous amounts with little outlay. If his neighbor is distressed, he buys his property for a song. If he administers upon an estate, it turns out insolvent, and the orphans are paupers. If his bank explodes, he is found to have taken care of himself in time. Society worships its paper-and-credit kings, as the old Hindus and Egyptians worshipped their worthless idols, and often the most obsequiously when in actual solid wealth they are the veriest paupers. No wonder men think there ought to be another world, in which the injustices of this may be atoned for, when they see the friends of ruined families begging the wealthy sharpers to give alms to prevent the orphaned victims from starving, until they may find ways of supporting themselves.



When a nation becomes possessed with a spirit of commercial greed, beyond those just and fair limits set by a due regard to a moderate and reasonable degree of general and individual prosperity, it is a nation possessed by the devil of commercial avarice, a passion as ignoble and demoralizing as avarice in the individual; and as this sordid passion is baser and more unscrupulous than ambition, so it is more hateful, and at last makes the infected nation to be regarded as the enemy of the human race. To grasp at the lion's share of commerce, has always at last proven the ruin of States, because it invariably leads to injustices that make a State detestable; to a selfishness and crooked policy that forbid other nations to be the friends of a State that cares only for itself.
....
No one will say that the Inquisitor who has racked and burned the innocent; the Spaniard who hewed Indian infants, living, into pieces with his sword, and fed the mangled limbs to his blood-hounds; the military tyrant who has shot men without trial, the knave who has robbed or betrayed his State, the fraudulent banker or bankrupt who has beggared orphans, the public officer who has violated his oath, the judge who has sold injustice, the legislator who has enabled Incapacity to work the ruin of the State, ought not to be punished. Let them be so; and let the injured or the sympathizing be the instruments of God's just vengeance; but always out of a higher feeling than mere personal revenge.

Albert Pike. Morals and Dogma

Pike's admonishment of selfishness and avarice (extreme greed for wealth and material gain) of the Capitalism system and his opposition to tyranny and despotism sounds very good in print, but with regards to modern Masons it is an admonishment which appears to fall upon deaf ears. The modern Masonic City (The City of London) is built around the principles of such selfishness and avarice; the central tenet of their religion appears to be merely the accumulation of Capital, whatever the cost, and their God, the God of Capitalism, merely a definition of a "Capitalist Devil."



Modern Capitalism is no longer the economic system criticised by Marx; he would have to modify his analysis were he to be alive in the 21st century; modern Capitalism is now no longer predominately the production of property, but rather merely "gambling."

The value of all derivatives contracts is now 20 times global GDP and thus Capitalism is 95% gambling and 5% the sale of goods and services. While hundreds of millions of people live close to the point of starvation, the devils of Capitalism gamble on price of commodities, currencies or whether the war will break out, or on whether it will rain tomorrow, or on whether millions of people will default on their mortgages; and if they lose their gambling bets, they can simply turn to their governments to be bailed out, and if it is at the cost of mass unemployment and government welfare cuts, it matters not, for Capital is their God, avarice a virtue, and concern for the suffering of the billions of the children of the gods appears to be a sin; and in the UK at least, it is the Masons who are the kings of Capitalism; they are essentially the Capitalist Mafia in this nation and they have a global impact on the world..

Men are brought together, first to differ, and then to agree.

Affirmation, negation, discussion, solution: these are the means of attaining truth.

Even intellect condescends to intellectual jugglery, balancing thoughts as a juggler balances pipes on his chin.

Let Masonry use the pen and the printing-press in the free State against the Demagogue; in the Despotism against the Tyrant. History offers examples and encouragement.

Rhetoric, Plato says, is the art of ruling the minds of men

And the maxim is no less true than old, that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

Edicts which emanate from the mere arbitrary will of a despotic power, contrary to the law of God or the Great Law of Nature, destructive of the inherent rights of man, violative of the right of free thought, free speech, free conscience, it is lawful to rebel against and strive to abrogate. For obedience to the Law does not mean submission to tyranny; nor that, by a profligate sacrifice of every noble feeling, we should offer to despotism the homage of adulation.

Morals and Dogma

Again these are all useful truthisms and edicts, but they appear to fall on deaf ears with regards to the modern Masons. We live in a world under the control of the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" which is a very real economic dictatorship, and it is the Capitalists and bankers who are the new Demagogues, the new Despots, and Freemasons in general tend to be those who seek to rise to the top of the food chain of that system

.
Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Apart from Biblical passages which are downright evil; many of the Biblical laws are just downright stupid; such as Jesus command that no person should every eat figs.

Totally taken out of context. Also it was not stupid. Its a passage of metaphor that relates very strongly to the Parable of the Sower in Matthew. Where Jesus said that those who have more will have more given, and those with little will have the little they have taken from them. He also said, that we're all blind, but gave the way directly there, that if we asked Father/Family above to heal our vision, we would be healed and become aware and see.

This passage about the fig tree is a direct reference to those who are serving other, STO, and doing good works, providing nourishment to others, physically, mentally, emotionally, guiding, helping, loving, forgiving, and those who are not doing this, but living for themselves.

Metaphor! And a good one at that.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Apart from Biblical passages which are downright evil; many of the Biblical laws are just downright stupid; such as Jesus command that no person should every eat figs.

Totally taken out of context. Also it was not stupid. Its a passage of metaphor that relates very strongly to the Parable of the Sower in Matthew. Where Jesus said that those who have more will have more given, and those with little will have the little they have taken from them. He also said, that we're all blind, but gave the way directly there, that if we asked Father/Family above to heal our vision, we would be healed and become aware and see.

What blasphemy and heresy is this? If the incarnation of God on earth condemned the evil of fig eating, then obviously fig trees must be evil and it is forever forbidden to eat this evil and ungodly fruit which Jesus cursed.. It is obviously the failure to avoid fig eating that is reponsible for all manner of evil in the world. If only people would stop eating figs, heaven would appear on earth. Terrible and Dreadful shall be the judgement on Christians who defend this diablical practice of eating figs.

This passage about the fig tree is a direct reference to those who are serving other, STO, and doing good works, providing nourishment to others, physically, mentally, emotionally, guiding, helping, loving, forgiving, and those who are not doing this, but living for themselves.

Metaphor! And a good one at that.

It is quite clear that the teachings of Jesus and Moses are impossible to follow, and that even if a person did attempt to follow them, they would end up being judged by most human beings as being criminally and genocidally insane. Such a person would have to become a homeless, sholess, moneyless (having sold all their posessions and given all to the poor), wandering exorcist, with only one robe and promoting strict adherence to the Judaic Law and the prophets; which even considering the first 10 commandments alone, of which 9 are executable offences, and two of which are genocidal offences (worshipping competing tribal deities), the consequences for applying such laws would be totally genocidal. Furher the person attempting to follow the teachings of Jesus would have to be able to substantiate that they could miraculously cure leposy and blindnesssimply by a laying on of hands or by "casting out evil spirits;" leprosy and blindness are essentially incurable even with modern medical technology, however it is quite clear that they are impossible to cure by miraculous means.

Since most Christians anyway reject the teachings of Jesus and Moses, the professional hypnotists of the Jesus business ahve developed a "faith only" theology as a marketable product for the multi-billion dollar Jesus business, which is based merely on a "quote mining" and "cherry picking" of the Bible to suit their own particular beliefs, misinterpretations and prejudices. Anything which they find to be disagreeable in the text, they simply reject or refer to as "metaphorical," nd they seem to have a myriad of excuses for such hypocrisy.

The First Commandment - No other gods



The 10 Cs were allegedly given to a man who was alone on a mountain for 40 days and nights, hearing voices in the clouds and having visions of bright lights, and who claimed to have spoken at great length, and in great detail, with the the creator of the universe.

Besides the tablets, Moses was given explicit instructions for the construction of a storage chest, a table, a lampstand, and a tabernacle- which required a LOT of curtains and milled wood, which one would think would be hard to come by in the desert - with an alter for burnt offerings, and a large courtyard. God was also very explicit regarding the fabrics, colors, and ornamentation of the priests garments. Likewise in the details of the slaughtering of sacrificial animals, the sprinkling of the blood, the handling of the internal organs, and the burning of the carcasses. At this time, godhisownself demanded that Moses conduct a census and that every Israelite must pay a "ransom for his life" [Exodus 30:12, KJV]. Then there was more detailed instruction regarding a bronze wash basin, anointing oil, incense, and some staff appointments by name. This all takes 7 full chapters of Exodus (24 - 31 KJV).
When Moses came down off the mountain and found a party going on, he destroyed the tablets before actually delivering them. Then, claiming god said so, he commanded the men to go through the camp and kill "brother friend and neighbor". Three thousand were killed. This rated only two verses - Exodus32:27-28. The killers were then blessed. The survivors were struck with a plague and run out of town. As a parting shot, god told Moses that he would not accompany them to the "land of milk and honey" because they were "stiff necked" and if he spent any time with them he would probably end up killing them all.


Deut. 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

Penalty: Death or worse for 3-4 generations of your descendents who had nothing to do with your problem.

Comments: This commandment has served as the justification for some of the most horrific atrocities ever perpetrated against fellow humans over matters of conscience.
This is identical to the Taliban solution. Were we to enforce this, we would have to kill approx. 80% of the Humans on the planet.
In the United States, under the Constitution, this commandment is not reflected anywhere in our laws and carries no criminal penalty.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Second Commandment - No graven images

Deut. 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Penalty: For breaking these first two commandments, the Alleged Xian Deity (AXD) promises dire consequences for three or four generations of your descendents: (reminds me of Joe Pesci - "I'll kill your whole #in' family!")
Someone, quoting Moses quoting the AXD continues ...


Deut. 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
Comments: Can be and has been construed to outlaw all art. Xians, to this day, brazenly attempt to define art and to punish those who diverge from the biblically acceptable. The Taliban in a similar effort blew up the largest Buddha statue on earth. A few weeks later they were destroyed. (They probably shouldn't oughta done that.) As it does for the Taliban, that usually means death. If the AXD is feeling particularly magnanimous that day it may only mean personal ruination for family and descendents who actually had nothing to do with the offense. The AXD is highly unpredictable in that regard. In the United States, under the Constitution, this commandment is not reflected anywhere in our laws and carries no criminal penalty. This commandment could not be more thoroughly disregarded or irrelevant.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Third Commandment - The lord's name in vain

Deut. 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Usage: This one is almost completely ignored. I'm not sure I really know what it even means.

Penalty: Death

Lev. 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Comments: Only the occasional grandma will give you any pro forma grief over this. In the United States, under the Constitution, this commandment is not reflected in federal law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Fourth Commandment - Keep the Sabbath

Deut. 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Usage: This one too is completely ignored.



Penalty: Death

Ex. 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Comments: I'm not sure, but I think that driving a car to church technically qualifies one to be stoned to death by angry mobs of good solid xians.
There are still a few backwards communities with random and arbitrary blue laws in effect. These are rapidly disappearing and are not required by federal law.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Fifth Commandment - Honor your parents

Deut. 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother.

Penalty: Death

Lev. 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death.
Comments: Widely disregarded and for good reason - we would have to kill every teenager on the planet. As satisfying as it would be, it is a tad harsh in my estimation.
This is not included in our Constitution.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Sixth Commandment - Don't kill

Deut. 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.

Penalty: Death

Comments: Finally, one that everyone can agree on. It is of some interest however that it was only listed as the 5th most important commandment. I think most people would list that as number one.
The prohibition against killing your fellow humans was written law thousands of years and in many places prior to the 10Cs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Seventh Commandment - Don't screw around

Deut. 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.



Penalty: Death. For both parties.

Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Comments: This is the only form of sex outlawed, or even mentioned in the 10 Cs. This may still be illegal in some locales in the United States, but it ain't in the Constitution and it ain't federal law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Eighth Commandment - Don't steal

Deut. 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.

Penalty: Death

Deut. 24:7 If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die;

Comments: Written laws against theft long preceded the ten commandments.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Ninth Commandment - Don't lie

Deut. 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Penalty: Payback

Deut. 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother:
Comments: Actually, this is the first one without a death sentence. It calls for fair retribution. I kinda like this solution. Written laws against lying long preceded the 10Cs. Generally, lying is not illegal except under oath or when reckless disregard for the truth causes injury. Bear in mind that everyone who testifies in court swears, usually on a bible, to be truthful. Half of these people will then lie their asses off.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Tenth Commandment - Don't covet

Deut. 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Penalty: None

Comments: They seem to have run out of steam here. I couldn't find any direct penalty for covetousness, but only a general disfavor and a vague threat of being "smitten". I don't know why they even mentioned it if they weren't gonna go big over it. It is worth noting that our entire economy - the biggest and best in the world - is built on coveting what everyone else has.

www.flamewarrior.com...

Essentially the Biblical Laws were the savage laws of a tribe of Bronze Age primitives; such savages who wish to live by them would do better to emigrate to Afghanistan or regions where Sharia Law is partly enforced.

Lux

reply to post by Lucifer777

All of it, every bit, an assumption regarding my interpretation of the "second coming". Even Jesus is purported to have indicated that his return would not be in any one individual or from any particular direction.

You don't seem to know the first thing about Christian mysticism, do you?

reply to post by Lucifer777


"I have only one commandment. Love one another as I have loved you."

The problem you seem to be mired in, Lucifer, is that of a failure of love, and it's not really anyone's fault. We all f'd up.

Except in my case, I'm prepared to do something about it, using Jesus as a model to be the love that's missing in the world.

I am sorry for your losses and disappointments.

You see, some among us are aware of what drives and motivates us.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Here are some exerts from the same book:

Though Masonry neither usurps the place of, nor apes religion, prayer is an essential part of our ceremonies.

Masonry, by its teachings, endeavours to restrain men from the commission of injustice and acts of wrong and outrage. Though it does not endeavour to usurp the place of religion, still its code of morals proceeds upon other principles than the municipal law; and it condemns and punishes offences which neither that law punishes nor public opinion condemns.

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it. The Brahmin, the Jew, the Mahometan, the Catholic, the Protestant, each professing his peculiar religion, sanctioned by the
laws, by time, and by climate, must needs retain it, and cannot have two religions; for the social and sacred laws adapted to the usages, manners, and prejudices of particular countries, are the work of men.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

"I have only one commandment. Love one another as I have loved you."

This is good example of a Christian mistransating a text to suit their own personal beliefs.

The King James translation presents this a "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15: 12)" The American King James version has "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."

However if we reduce this to "I have only one commandment" then we may as well discard the rest of the Bible and various teachings and edicts of Jesus such as:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Mt. 5)

It seems that his criticism of the scribes (the literate persons who could read and write) and the Pharisees is that they did not adhere strictly enough to the numerous Mosaic Laws and of the Judiac prophets.

If a person believes in "love" they might as well claim to be a follower of the authors of just about every song on the radio, which are mostly love songs, or that Michael Jackson or Barbara Streisand are the "Messiahs," or that I am the Messiah, for I too believe in love, but I do not waste my love on human-hating definitions of a deity, such as the psychopathic Biblical deity

It is a statement of the obvious to claim that human beings need to love and to be loved in order to be happy, but this alone does not define the fictional Jesus, who is described as promoter of the Judaic Law and who had numerous other teachings, such as no shoe wearing, nomoney carrying, etc., all of which are generally rejected by Christians..

It seems to me that a Christian is generally a person who claims to represent Jesus, as he is a famous saviour deity and religious celebrity, whom they consider to be more powerful than themselves, much like a person who claims to represent the authority of a tyrant or a government; they claim to represent something much bigger and more powerful than themselves, and this gives them a sense of security; it is for much the same reason that people join gangs. However the Christians are fully aware that their fictional deity is long dead and cannot speak for himself, and thus they seem to feel free to misrepresent him in any way they like; Christianity is essentially a totally hypocritical religion .

The problem you seem to be mired in, Lucifer, is that of a failure of love, and it's not really anyone's fault. We all f'd up.

Hateful, human-nature-hating religious fanatics often claim to represent "love;" it is what Christians commonly do, and I find fault with that; their genocidal, psychopathic deity is far from a definition of love; in fact it is the anti-thesis of a humanist's definition of love. The Christians have had 2000 years to establish a world of love, and often what we find is a history of war, tyranny,slavery, genocides, Inquisitions, etc. And all this they have done "in the name of love;" love is probably the most misused word in the arsenal of religious doublespeak

Except in my case, I'm prepared to do something about it, using Jesus as a model to be the love that's missing in the world.

There are numerous other models of "love" in the history of philosophy or even in the modern world; if one just picks out the "love" teachings or the "Golden rule" one can find numerous other sources of this, however it is not such common sayings which define Jesus and his primitive god; similarly with Hitler who was always speaking of his great love for the German people.

I am sorry for your losses and disappointments. you see, some among us are aware of what drives and motivates us.

I have no idea what you are referring to; my life has been full of love, in a world which is full of hatred, war, human slavery, impoverishment and collective human misery; however there is no great secret to love; as Seneca stated, "If you want to be loved, love." Books regarding human love and the "Art of loving" fill the bookshelves of Capitalism; however the Bible and the Koran, despite a few statements on love, are not about the art of loving; they are more about the art of hating, of war, of bigotry, of slavery, of paternalism.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

All of it, every bit, an assumption regarding my interpretation of the "second coming". Even Jesus is purported to have indicated that his return would not be in any one individual or from any particular direction.

Well there are probably as many different interpretations of Christianity as there are Christians; however the Biblical Messiah predicted in the Bible is described as a genocidal theocratic dictator (a king of kings); thus politically Christianity is a rather dangerous religion; the last thing we need is a global dictator who seeks to impose the laws of a tribe of Bronze Age savages. The Christians in my judgement are the enemies of human progress.

You don't seem to know the first thing about Christian mysticism, do you?

Since I am not a Christian, my understanding of Christianity is limited to the academic methods of study, and the study of the psychology of religion; with regards to "mysticism" I am entirely aware that Christians claim to have mystical experiences with their primitive religious fanatic, Christ, just as Sadhus have mystical experiences with Shiva, just as the Sufis' form of mystical Islam reinforced their Islami faith; such experiences are always subjective (they occur within the human mind) and are based on the person's beliefs; though they usually tend to confirm the person's beliefs.

The human brain is a sensitive electro-chemical apparatus which floods at times with '___' and produces all manner of "spiritual" type experiences. I do admit to a lifelong habit of attempting to induce such experiences by artificial means; certainly such experiences can seem very real. I have gone into this matter at some length on the thread: "The Dangers of Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination: The genocidal faiths of Christianity & Islam" on: www.abovetopsecret.com... . Generally religious experiences can reinforce the faith of even the most fanatical extremists.

Lux