Is there God?

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

God cannot be blamed for this.

Sure God can be blamed for all the wrong in the world, if there is a God, and it does nothing to prevent evil, that is proof that the entity known as God is itself Evil.

If one believes the Bible to be literally true, God is responsible for many many acts of genocide throughout the ages, from the flood of Noah, to Sodom and Gomorrah, to even the origin story of passover.

So, is there a God? Perhaps, but if there is, it's one sadistic, evil, bastard.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Just because ur pope doesn't like that Gospel, does not mean it does not exist.

Go read the story of Jesus and Zeno. I assure you that the story culminates with Jesus pushing Zeno off a roof to prove his ability to raise the dead.

You god is evil. accept it and move on

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

God cannot be blamed for this.

Sure God can be blamed for all the wrong in the world, if there is a God, and it does nothing to prevent evil, that is proof that the entity known as God is itself Evil.

If one believes the Bible to be literally true, God is responsible for many many acts of genocide throughout the ages, from the flood of Noah, to Sodom and Gomorrah, to even the origin story of passover.

So, is there a God? Perhaps, but if there is, it's one sadistic, evil, bastard.

You sir, are a charlatan! And I am glad to make your aquaintance! People often forget the reason behind the most important Jewish holiday.

Lets not forget the Inquisition either. "Thou shalt not suffer a whitch to live." to bad the little girl couldn't understand that with the molten lead in her ear and all....

Believing in the god of science, is believing in untruths, and will never give answers.
To understand life we have a fully working lab with us at all times. Why would we need to make anyone the authority?
Know thyself.

What is seen in front of you right now is seen.
By what?
Quantum mechanics says that without a conscious observer, every 'thing' is waves of possibilities. Only when it is viewed does it snap into a particle. A particle is what we call matter. Matter does not actually exist. There really is nothing solid here, Newton and Aristotle assumed and concluded a theory and we have based the world on these theories. A world viewed, based on materialism.
Only now with extremely powerful microscopes, it is seen that it's all made of space.
What is the space?
Could it be intelligence energy, awareness, consciousness or call it another name god.

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

Just because ur pope doesn't like that Gospel, does not mean it does not exist.

Go read the story of Jesus and Zeno. I assure you that the story culminates with Jesus pushing Zeno off a roof to prove his ability to raise the dead.

You god is evil. accept it and move on

You know what i find ironic?

People like you, believe nothing in the bible is true. That it is all just a story, make believe.
Yet, you use quotes from books, that is like the bible, just another story, to be the TRUTH.

You find it convenient to quote from the books, when you need too. But if you do not believe in the bible, how can you use to bible to contradict itself? Or are you doing "selective" believing, and conveniently all the things you believe is the truth?

You either believe or not. And if you don't, don't quote from the same text that you are against. It is counter productive.

VvV

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by ugie1028

 

Neuro science and the science pertaining to religion are very different my friend, even though they are both science.

We know for a fact the effects of neuro-cellular and neuro chemical reactions. This is why a medication isn't reformulated for every new patient needing depression pills.

If everyone was completely different, wouldn't there need to be a different field of medicine for every human alive??

Bad argument because the body excretes around 20 different chemicals that regulate how the brain works and operates. these medications limit certain chemicals or partially block them to change the persons behavior. you said nuero-science can explain what a soul is when everyone has a different perception of WHAT their soul is. The soul comes from within based on perception, and not the physical... try again.

Thats not the case. If you have a hard time believing what I say, try harder. Then read the links I have been dropping, as knowledge is good.

I dont need you, or anyone else to believe in what I believe in. All i need is me and my perception; that's it.

there is a difference between the physical (our brain) and the soul (What our perception is of where we come from and why we exist.) which is the metaphysical side. That cannot be measured and that is the difference... and that cannot be studied with our current technology.

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

Do you hail from the Dumb Clan??? That quote doesn't talk about Jesus dying, its talking about somebody that brushed him accidentally in the street.

You need to get it right buddy. Go pray to your baby killing messiah and leave debating to debaters.

The dumb clan????? what no of course not .. as for my intellegence im not an idiot.

hey bro listen im a mother of 4 girls and i dont believe in baby killings at all . before or after birth .
as for my personal messiah shes dead , been dead for the past 5 months and 4 days .....

lets get back to the so called jesus shall we ?

like i said in my other reply i dont believe in him . that doesnt mean that i dont believe in a god .

i was not raised with the bible so i dont know exactly whats in it nor do i care to find out ..

but from what i do know this jesus person never killed anyone . contary to your belief that he did ....

end of my debate .. have a nice day

Originally posted by alysha.angel

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

Do you hail from the Dumb Clan??? That quote doesn't talk about Jesus dying, its talking about somebody that brushed him accidentally in the street.

You need to get it right buddy. Go pray to your baby killing messiah and leave debating to debaters.

The dumb clan????? what no of course not .. as for my intellegence im not an idiot.

hey bro listen im a mother of 4 girls and i dont believe in baby killings at all . before or after birth .
as for my personal messiah shes dead , been dead for the past 5 months and 4 days .....

lets get back to the so called jesus shall we ?

like i said in my other reply i dont believe in him . that doesnt mean that i dont believe in a god .

i was not raised with the bible so i dont know exactly whats in it nor do i care to find out ..

but from what i do know this jesus person never killed anyone . contary to your belief that he did ....

end of my debate .. have a nice day

Lets say you DO believe in Jesus. Isn't he "God" incarnate? Now, lets address some of the things "God" has done with all of his "love."

"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

We never stop and realize that all there ever is is 'this'.
We talk about the bible, god, jesus and creation as though it was a long time ago. Or god is in the future when we die.
Creation is happening now, the big bang is now. God is now.
Is there really any other time or place, or is it all appearing presently?

reply to post by ugie1028


Perception is a function of physical abborations that take place within the skull. Good argument.

20 differnent chemicals? I wonder how they figured that out?

Not with a bible, I assure you.

The "soul" must certainly be energy. Energy cannot be either created nor destroyed. It may only switch frequency or density. Newton in ya face

reply to post by SunTzu22


The way that you are quoting the bible, left, right and centre, is almost making it seem like your argumenting for the bible, instead of against it.

The bible is a book mate, a collection of written thouhts. It will not give anyone faith. You either have faith or not. The bible is not the alpha and the omega of faith.

vvv

PLEASE READ
This post has been updated to reflect THIS THREAD I put together on my view

No matter what science or religion discovers or uses to explain the begining you can still ask yourself the question - what came before that? What made that happen. What caused the big bang clycle to start?...
And with religion you can always ask - where did god come from?
Both sides have the same problem, We as humans can not understand how something can come to exist without first being created.


The biggest argument used towards supporting the God pov is having faith - but faith also has a huge flaw that it shares with science because it is based on our understanding of this reality. Our faith is based on our experiences, what we learn from others and even what's in our 'heart'.
The problem is how do we even know this is not a dream? or a dream within a dream. Then we are just feeling the heart within our dream, and having faith in our experiences from within that dream.
How do we know that a past or a future even exist, for all I know i could have been typing this post over and over for a thousand years and my memories of what i have done before this were simply created - we would not know.
IMO before we can answer the question of "is there a God?" we must first answer the unanswerable question of what is reality. Because nothing we can feel, learn or observe will have any effect if this is not the true reality.


The reason we can not answer the question of is this reality is because we are inside it - if we found the true reality how would we know it is the true reality. Remember we can not use our memories etc as any form of evidence, because we have no way of proving they really existed without including this 'reality'. Lost yet?
A fish in the ocean can study the ocean all it likes but it will never understand the ocean is on earth which is in space if it can not leave that ocean.
Science and religion can't claim to be right because they, just like you, are part of this reality so can not answer the question of "is this reality?". Sadly both are blinded by their faith in this reality and can not seem to comprehend that neither can explain anything outside of their experiences within this reality which does not matter if it is not the true reality.
I often wonder if I am but mere energy, having a dream of being human. Perhaps I am the basic lifeform in the primoridal soup dreaming of being advanced or maybe i am the dream that created dreams
I also find it funny how dreams always make perfect sense until you wake up - this is because that dream became your reality, and it is very hard to question your reality when you do not realise you need to.


The conclusion - believe what you want to believe, there is no right or wrong answers because in being part of this reality we can not see past it to know the truth.

For those that are so entrenched in this reality they need a scientific view - before he died, Einstein said "Now Besso [an old friend] has departed from ...this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us ... know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."

In fact, it was Einstein's theory of relativity that showed that space and time are indeed relative to the observer. Quantum theory ended the classical view that particles exist if we don't perceive them. But if the world is observer-created, we shouldn't be surprised that it's destroyed with each of us. Nor should we be surprised that space and time vanish, and with them all Newtonian conceptions of order and prediction.


Think about it - We know nothing if we can not know that what we know is something.


Leigh Reily

Source (extract in italics)

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Yea, im rallying FOR the Bible... anyways..

A billion people use that book to guide their "faith". A BILLION!

If I can convince just ONE that they are being misled, then I am doing my job as a human.

You know your bible is crap, if you don't.... READ IT!

reply to post by SunTzu22


When god is known, it is true all things will be swept away.
When god is known, it is realized that there is nothing.
No thing.

There is sensation.
Life is sensation appearing as form.
Appearing as form to the formless.
The formless is what sees all form.
Form can not appear without the formless.
This is creation, life, god.

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

Yea, im rallying FOR the Bible... anyways..

A billion people use that book to guide their "faith". A BILLION!

If I can convince just ONE that they are being misled, then I am doing my job as a human.

You know your bible is crap, if you don't.... READ IT!

Well, mate, STOP QUOTING THEN FROM THE BIBLE, THAT YOU DESPISE SO MUCH.

Why do you want to convince someone that their believe system is wrong? Are you the messiah?
You will never succeed in this, for anyone's whose faith is strong, will not just be convinced by your arguments.

Oh, and believe me, i have read the bible many times. Probably more than you. So do not tell me what to do.

I do not force my believes on you, yet you feel the need to CONVINCE others their believes is wrong.

VvV

reply to post by SunTzu22


ah excuse me but i thought that i was done with christianty class in 8th grade , and i hated it .....

so why are you forcing bible quatations on me when im not asking for it ?

which leaves the true question of what you really believe in? like my friend vvv said you claim not to believe in it yet your forcing these quates down our throats and we dont appreciate it at all.

im not forcing my beliefs on anyone but i do give my opinion on these things . so if i were you id give it up now and move on to a different forum or topic.

reply to post by SunTzu22


No its a bad argument. The soul is metaphysical, Beyond the skull, beyond our brain; Something that IS NOT physical... something that cannot be measured.

So all you can resort to is to take pop shots huh? shows how much you truly know, surely shows how mature you are.

reply to post by alysha.angel


why is it so hard for you christians to eat of your own fruit?

those verses are the word of your "Lord".

Your class clearly didn't have para-professionalls to assist your limited learning ability

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

 

Yea, im rallying FOR the Bible... anyways..

A billion people use that book to guide their "faith". A BILLION!

If I can convince just ONE that they are being misled, then I am doing my job as a human.

You know your bible is crap, if you don't.... READ IT!

Well, mate, STOP QUOTING THEN FROM THE BIBLE, THAT YOU DESPISE SO MUCH.

Why do you want to convince someone that their believe system is wrong? Are you the messiah?
You will never succeed in this, for anyone's whose faith is strong, will not just be convinced by your arguments.

Oh, and believe me, i have read the bible many times. Probably more than you. So do not tell me what to do.

I do not force my believes on you, yet you feel the need to CONVINCE others their believes is wrong.

VvV

If your a Christian, then you are going to hell if you don't attempt to convert people to your ideaology, violently if necessary. Look it up since your so well versed.

call me anything, just not a messiah. To some of us, that is a word of disgust.

your big letters make you look 12 ...

BY THE WAYYY!!

Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

why is it so hard for you christians to eat of your own fruit?

those verses are the word of your "Lord".

Your class clearly didn't have para-professionalls to assist your limited learning ability

I am not christian, catholic or any of those kind of religions . whatever gave you that impression about me ? ha my limited learning ability? i think not ... my knowlage about the bible may be limited but that does not make me retarded .....

i know a lot about a lot of different subjects thanks to my mother and how i was raised as well as what type of books that iv read over the years ....

other then the bible when was the last time you read a non fiction book? or a novel based on history?