Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Well first what plane was it UPS flight 902 or AWE flight 808? And why didn't anyone have a clue what it was for so long and still don't really?

www.dailypaul.com...

Things are not always what they seem to be, but you can always count on the government and the military to be absolutely clueless as to what is really going on!

It was US Airways flight 808
I did a lot of extrapolation of what flights could be at the right position (off the coast) at the right altitude (for contrail formation) and came down to two possibilities: UPS flight 902 (UPS902) or US Airways flight 808 (AWE808).

Why is there no official statement from UPS ? Why do I find statements like this on....
contrailscience.com...

ElPaso2010 says: November 13, 2010 at 7:50 pm Unbelievable that anyone would go to so much trouble to “explain away” what was obviously a missle launch. It makes one wonder why, if it was a plane, all of which are closely monitored in an area such as LA, no one can say which plane. The previous long list of comments — which seems to have disappeared — contained a lot of good arguments to the contrary. Why are those posts being suppressed now?

Florida Resident says: November 14, 2010 at 3:24 pm Anyone who lives near the space coast in Florida can tell the difference between a contrail of a jetliner or military jet, and that of a missle. Since there are numerous missle shots from the Cape, both shuttle launches and military launches, you get where you can recognize a “missed shot” or a “shot in action”. Notice, that the “explainer” here shows ONE shot that has the barely visible light of a jet’s engines in one picture. However, pictures of this contrail clearly show a wide “fan-out” fuel-burning fire, typical of missles. Also, as in missle shots, as the missle enters the stratosphere and above, there’s no water vapor nor other atmospheric elements to create a contrail, so seconds (maybe 90-120) after launch…the missle exhaust becomes clear with nothing other than space to disperse the heat of the exhaust. Again, a jet…uses oxygen out of the air, which equals contrails at the highest levels (think B-52)…whereas a rocket uses internal oxygen, which equals NO contrail as it gets out of the atmosphere (look up shuttle launch videos if you have any doubt). This is CLEARLY a missle launch…and please, don’t try to explain it away! The U.S. will, eventually, come clean on this, and the real issue is WHY did it happen when it did? G20 conference, exercises in the China sea by U.S. military and it’s allies…and China’s newfound strength militarily plus it’s simultaneous downgrading of the U.S. debt rating from AA to A+…THAT is the real story. China is flexing it’s muscle, and the U.S. Government is scrambling to minimize the damage and denying it to avoid showing its embarrassment over the incident.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Well first what plane was it UPS flight 902 or AWE flight 808? And why didn't anyone have a clue what it was for so long and still don't really?

The fact that some people were clueless as to what it was does not make it any less likely to be a "contrail at sunset".

There is a lot of ignorance in the world. There have been several threads over the years on ATS about contrails at sunset/sunrise that people thought were missiles, or meteors, or a plane on fire falling to the ground, or whatever. Just because all those people on ATS could not identify it as a contrail at sunset/sunrise doesn't mean that it wasn't.

As to your assertion that people "still don't really know": that's your opinion.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Well first what plane was it UPS flight 902 or AWE flight 808? And why didn't anyone have a clue what it was for so long and still don't really?

The fact that some people were clueless as to what it was does not make it any less likely to be a "contrail at sunset".

There is a lot of ignorance in the world. There have been several threads over the years on ATS about contrails at sunset/sunrise that people thought were missiles, or meteors, or a plane on fire falling to the ground, or whatever. Just because all those people on ATS could not identify it as a contrail at sunset/sunrise doesn't mean that it wasn't.

As to your assertion that people "still don't really know": that's your opinion.

What is the official statement ? contrailscience.com claims it was UPS902

Here is another thread I found on militarytimes.com

www.militarytimes.com...

Seems that a lot more military personnel disagree that it was a plane contrail.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Why don't you tell us instead of playing "connect the dots"?

I suspect I know why you don't tell us, but I'm going to give you the opportunity to say something definitive, backed by evidence, that supports a sustainable conclusion.

I know....it's a victory of unreasonable optimism over experiance....but I'm that kind of guy

reply to post by MathiasAndrew



On a quick count by eye I think 9 people posted, 1 on behalf of her "military husband". 1 said outright it was a commercial a/c, 2 seem unconvinced either way, 1 clearly hadn't read all the info (asked why the FAA hadn't said anything when in fact it had said that it spotted nothing unusual on radar), and the last post is on behalf of Jim Cash, a retired USAF general who states categorically that it was a missile launch.

Cash's letter was posted on 14 December, the others stopped posting 15 November.

So that's 10 ppl who have had some input to the thread, and no great followup.

Not exactly a lot IMO.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


There is only one person here who shows no evidence, that doesn't understand, nor have the proper critical thinking skills to realize the many, many deluded videos, made by the many, many delusional people who are self-promoting, and trading on ignorance.

Only one person who continues on this ignorant course.

Ironically, you wrote this.....and it describes yourself to a "T":

... because you refuse to accept any of the evidence....

I know you think that each and every thing you posted was "evidence"....but, what is so tragic is that NONE of it withstands actual scrutiny....not by the people who live in a world where they possess knowledge and expertise to see through the baloney. Review the VAST "reams" of garbage posted....you shot-gunned these threads with just about every darned video you could find on YouTube...regardless of whether any of them even agreed with each other!!!

(Because, in that zeal, apparently did not notice that many of the "theories" out there are mutually conflicting....the "evidence" you trumpeted destroyed its/their own credibility!!).

_____
Again, the irony.....if you would only look into a mirror, as you attempted to "DIS" me:

Just because you live in denial.....
..... Just because you are illogical....
..... Just because you are unreasonable.....

(I think we have seen the results of the actual "denying, illogical unreasonable" attitudes here.....).

It continued....again, the sweet irony:

All your "facts" have been debunked and derailed.

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a SLEW of people who are trying valiantly to properly inform and "break through" to you....short of an intervention, since there is no physicality here. It is up to YOU, and YOU alone to have that breakthrough realization. It has happened, already....to another. HE was able to pull his head out of the "chem"-trails, shake it clear, and recognize the HOAX that had been woven to fool him.

_____
When the rest of us who know better about the science and reason involved on this topic say that the "chemmies" (some of them....the gullible ones, NOT the intentional HOAX pushers) aqre nearly in a religious frenzy of "belief"....it isn't said lightly. Looky here:

I am on a mission to prove the existence of chemtrails to as many people as I possibly can.

(My emphasis).

This is a bit like someone who attends a very good Magician's performance, and comes away "believing", afterwords, in "magic" and "miracles"....because of what they saw, and perceived...(and, due to a fantastic SALES PITCH as well). It is ALL about the marketing. These HOAX pushers are slick, and know how to manipulate their target audiences. It takes a bit of "spin", and "showmanship" and generally a reliance on the gullibility...and, yes, ignorance of some people (because, not all people can be well-versed and knowledgeable in all things. That's why we rely on specialists, in many fields. It is when the charlatans find a topic that is WIDE OPEN to being mis-used with pseudo-scientific double speak and babbling drivel? Ahhhhh...to them, a "gold mine" of opportunity).

But, "why" are you on a "mission"??

Ah, here again....you have seen what you didn't fully comprehend, and THEN lacking a foundaiton of experience and the critical tools, fell for what "seemed" to be an 'explanation':

Because I know for a fact that they are real. I have seen the proof with my own eyes.

"proof"?? Again, you have been asked to provide that, and have fallen short every time. You say with "my own eyes"?? Of what? Contrails? NO, you cannot determine what is contained in the contrails, just by "looking" at them! Your "proof" must be tangible, scientific, and undeniable. ALL you have is hearsay, and poorly-judged personal biases......

If you want to come to California and look for yourself.

LOL!! Dude! First, I was born and raised in California!!! I have spent just about the last forty years flying airplanes....gaining the experience and knowledge to KNOW what is real, and way isn't....in terms of aeronautical phenomena. That experience includes, of course, California (the rest of the country, and Internationally as well)....MANY hours and hours and years and years of observations, and all from the perspective of a PROFESSIONAL....not some amateur.

_____
Back to your "hearsay"....because, I read this and I know, without a doubt, that YOU aren't seeing what you think you see. It is your lack of experience that results in these false impressions:

Come watch them fly in ridiculous flight patterns criss crossing the sky. Stopping before reaching a mountain range and then turning back around.

No.....I assure you that you suffer from the same misconceptions that plague the other "chem"-trail believers.....you are NOT seeing the same airplanes. You are seeing a variety of airplanes, all purposefully going about their business of "Point A to Point B" and various different airplanes have paths that cross one another. you have been shown this repeatedly!! (See above, about the accusation that I am in "denial"!

_____
NOW!! Hey, this one statement is quite correct (although I doubt you understand why, just yet):

They are not up there training.

No....very little actual training in the actual airplanes is conducted, anymore...simulators are cheaper, safer and so much better, they have replaced the old "aircraft trainers" of many years ago. At MOST airlines.....( Which, BTW, was always done very late at night...when the airplanes were on their "down time" in between flying the regular schedules. But, it is expensive in fuel and maintenance costs. "Wear and tear"....).


____
But, alas...you are incredibly wrong, here:

They are not up there flying to any direct destination. They are up there for the purpose of spreading what ever it is they are spreading by whatever means they are using.

Because, as mentioned previously....you need PROOF! Of course, that "proof" does not exist....you have no "fleets" of specially-rigged airplanes, you have no ATC records of the flights, you have no indications of the huge, huge ground operations and support and supplying that would be needed. You (and the ones who fall for this HOAX) also have no concept of the actual physical limitations that airplanes are subjected to: Weight, size, endurance etc.

ALSO....you (and they) do NOT understand the manpower limitations. You don't realize that there are flight time, and duty time limits imposed on pilots...AND mandatory rest intervals...and, the biggie, of course is: There aren't enough "spare" pilots anyway!!!


Face it....you have been fooled. You've been had. You aren't alone in falling for this HOAX. And, there will be other hoaxes perpetrated. The key is to focus on the science, and the critical thinking....and stop believing in every science fiction scheme that is cooked up....the hoaxers are constantly making more up, to keep this fantasy alive.

WHEN or IF any sort of real, ongoing "Geo-engineering" program is underway, and implemented? It will be BIG NEWS!! It will be multi-national in scope. And it will (probably) even then, be controversial. But, the only way it would ever be "started" in the first place is if there were a real, perceived and VERY dire emergency need......

reply to post by weedwhacker


Just more rhetoric and ranting. I'll give you credit for having a creative imagination. But you are still in the minus column when it comes to actually backing up what you have said. Your rant makes me chuckle. I'm finding it hard to contain my laughter. Excuse me....OK

When you're ready to get real and get a clue, then maybe I will decide to respond to something of value if you decide to post something besides more hot air from your big bag of wind.

I think you should take a few more lessons at whatever it is you think you're supposed to be doing. You can't touch this. The truth speaks for itself. There is no amount of smoke you can blow that will hide your lies.

Please stay the course though, I find it quite amusing.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
What is the official statement ? contrailscience.com claims it was UPS902

It looks exactly like a plane contrail in the sunset, so I think it was a plane contrail in the sunset. I don't have enough information to tell you the exact flight number.

I would think there were several planes inbound to LA around that time. Perhaps it was flight 808 and contrailscience misidentified it as an earlier or later plane. Perhaps contrailscience got it right, and the others misidentified it -- I don't know.

What I do know is that it looks exactly like a contrail in the sunset.

OK I haven't spoken in a while but I have been researching and I just wanted to check the information I had been given here by many members as to why contrail's persist and the condition's required to allow a contrail to persist.
Now the fact's I have been given is that for contrail's to persist depend's on the temp of the air the plane is flying through and the moisture level's.
I just wanted to make sure that these where the 2 factors that effect the length of time a contrail will persist.

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a SLEW of people who are trying valiantly to properly inform and "break through" to you....short of an intervention, since there is no physicality here. It is up to YOU, and YOU alone to have that breakthrough realization. It has happened, already....to another. HE was able to pull his head out of the "chem"-trails, shake it clear, and recognize the HOAX that had been woven to fool him.

Is this some kind of threat? "since there is no physicality here"....what you gonna do whack me ? I bet you wish you could. You're losing it Mr whacko. I don't take threats lightly. Why don't you take your head out of your arse and look up. Say hello to my little friend.......

reply to post by weedwhacker


quote:
This is a bit like someone who attends a very good Magician's performance, and comes away "believing", afterwords, in "magic" and "miracles"....because of what they saw, and perceived...(and, due to a fantastic SALES PITCH as well). It is ALL about the marketing. These HOAX pushers are slick, and know how to manipulate their target audiences. It takes a bit of "spin", and "showmanship" and generally a reliance on the gullibility...and, yes, ignorance of some people (because, not all people can be well-versed and knowledgeable in all things. That's why we rely on specialists, in many fields. It is when the charlatans find a topic that is WIDE OPEN to being mis-used with pseudo-scientific double speak and babbling drivel? Ahhhhh...to them, a "gold mine" of opportunity).
I maybe wrong but it seam's to me that you and your fellow experts are the magician's here trying to blind us with your [it can't be happening] double talk imposing every lie with a hint of truth and if that don't work out right veiled threat's.
as I have said before you should direct your attack's on the data and not the person who present's it to you as this a debate of a subject not a debate on personnel character .

reply to post by weedwhacker


Would you please repeat the question Mr Whacko .... I couldn't really make out anything else worth responding to in your page full rant of how you believe in contrails that magically persist for days. What magic show did you attend?



EDIT: By the way ...you are correct....I do believe in miracles.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Mr Whacko, you whole shpeel seems to come directly out of the field operative training manual.

Insult here________place name here_________reverse psychology here____________back pedal here________assert self worth here_________insinuate vague implied knowledge here______________request back up here_______continue jumbled rant here__________quote opposition here___________make threat here_______accuse and insult here__________escalate threat here__________CAPITALIZE LETTERS HERE________ and so on and so forth

You should of used the format from a different page I'm already wise to this technique. Go find your "good cop" partner to back you up. You're gonna need him. I will quote Apu from Sienfeld

"You're a bad man ....a very very very bad man"

reply to post by weedwhacker


Dude....Mondo waves at the Cali coast bro......like let's go hit the lip and like hang ten man ?

weedwhacker, no one is accusing you of flying chemtrail missions. I believe that you are very knowledgeable about aviation. But that doesn't mean you know what going on with military or more covert operations does it?

I don't think that commercial passenger jets are involved with chemtrails. I believe it is being done by military and private contractors. Unless you work for one of those entities you would not have inside knowledge of their activities. I don't know what's going on exactly. I can't prove anything yet. The only reason I even got so deeply involved with this topic is because I noticed the large amount of denial by governments and debunkers.

It is a fact that these activities are being planned and have been studied for a long time now. By common sense a person can deduce that some kind of actual real life test scenarios have to have taken place during the studies of these Geo engineering techniques. They are going to just rely on guesses made by computer models without checking the data in real life.

They had to determine the best qualities and placement of the particulate matter that will be used. They had to of used radar and satellites to help understand how it might work. Does that make s sense?

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Which private contractors then?

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Dude....Mondo waves at the Cali coast bro......like let's go hit the lip and like hang ten man ?

weedwhacker, no one is accusing you of flying chemtrail missions. I believe that you are very knowledgeable about aviation. But that doesn't mean you know what going on with military or more covert operations does it?

Didnt you include the Space Shuttle, and aerial firefighting in your chemtrail operations? I have flown firefighting aircraft, and I was not aware at all that I was part of the conspiracy.

reply to post by djcarlosa


I appreciate the sentiments, but you could not be more mistaken, sorry.

Really.....take some time to study a lot of what is brought in from the rational, practical side of this.

It is really that basic. Here, a rundown:

• Claims of "something" in normal airliner Jet fuel. Was brought up, out of wild desperation, by "chem"-trail believers at one time. A bit of technical facts, and information, disputes and refutes that assertion, once you understand the complexities, functions and limitations of the modern jet engine....and how they actually function.
  
  
• Claims of normal airliners being involved in "spraying something"? Even easier to dispel, and long ago abandoned by the "chem"-trail HOAXers as an 'argument' (if you would note?)
  
  
• Picking up on the above, it is important to note the sorts of failed tactics, over hte year, employed by the "chemmie" promoters. Each time one of their 'claims' is shown to be technically and factually false, they alter the "Script"...and invent a NEW scheme. THIS is a sure sign of a HOAX!
  
  
• Not least, but enough for now...the latest (it seems) boondoggle from "chemmies" is the 'magical, mystical' claim of the "top secret somebody" who is "doing it". You can see it, just above in this very thread.

To address that final bullet point --- I'm not now, nor ever have been, in the military. BUT, have worked with a fair number of fellow aviators who DID engage and get some of their experience that way. Based on what I have learned, as a civilian...with NOTHING to hide, no "allegiances"....just a keen sense of discussion with people.....this idea of a "VAST" program of some sort, that is "SO" secret?? That would actually involve detrimental effects to the entire planet?? (TO INCLUDE, by the way, the people who anyone in the militaries of the World KNOW??).

It is just silly beyond normal levels of paranoid schizophrenia beliefs......

Claims of normal airliners being involved in "spraying something"? Even easier to dispel, and long ago abandoned by the "chem"-trail HOAXers as an 'argument' (if you would note?)

Not if you go to the "aircrap" site, they list several airlines they suspect of spraying chemtrails, even some of the commuter airlines and small cargo companies with a limited number of planes. They are totally promoting the airlines being in on it.

Carnicom used to have a United 757 as a "megasprayer" but I think he has taken that pic down. He did not mention the airline and type, but anyone who can identify aircraft could see.

reply to post by firepilot


I know, I know.......hence, my earlier post pointing out the HUGE disparity in "claims", from "chem"-trail website to "chem"-trail website.

MAN!!! It would take a hundred people thousands of hours to compile all the mistakes and inconsistencies in the "chem"-trail claims....and to "update" the ones who don't seem to be on the "same page" as the others.....YIKES!

What a MESS of a hoax, eh?? Seems to be collapsing (hopefully?) under its own weight of nonsense and garbage piled on, and piled high......