Fallen Marine's father says anti-gay pickets will draw gunfire

Ol WBC, stirring up the pot as usual I see.

Pretty sure God doesn't hate what he creates.The WBC folks are very confused, and are clearly having a hard time adapting, and keeping up with the evolution of our country. So many people for them to claim God hates, you name it. Soldiers, miners, 9/11 victims, breast cancer victims, YOU... Sheesh, after all this hating, does their "church" ever exercise a lil love?

They all will be judged as well perhaps, and when their turn is up... He will have some questions about them and their hate mongering in His name I am sure. ;-P

At least their signs are colorful!

So it’s okay for everyone in this thread to spew hate speech against Westboro Baptist and wish for their deaths, but when they call someone gay it’s wrong?

Actually I am defending you.

You have a right to protest what you see as wrong.

But you do not have a right to openly speak in favor of killing someone. (Trampling their Liberty)

Free Speech is for us all. (Liberty)
Thankfully the Supreme Court agrees, 8-1.
Proof

How often do you see landslides like that in the Supreme Court? Almost Never....

Originally posted by Epiphron
So it’s okay for everyone in this thread to spew hate speech against Westboro Baptist and wish for their deaths, but when they call someone gay it’s wrong?

Exactly.

It's extremely ironic.

And it is exactly what the problem with society is today.

Why not reply to my posts ?
Can you find argument there ? Probably not.

Freedom of Speech does not include what WBC are doing during these protests. I find it upsetting that the US high courts allow them to do what they do, which is opposite of what is written in law.

WBC has something like 20 to 100 members and most are his family members. I think this is an example of a loophole lunatic opportunist with no shame. I do my very best to ignore this troll but he makes it impossible. Thanks to Phelps and family most states are being forced to pass laws to prevent protesting at funerals. What a waste of energy on this POS. If there is a hell Fred will be there. Insane hatred at a funeral is wrong I don't need an amendment to tell me that.

reply to post by SMR


I have replied to you, in a generalized fashion.

I did not hit the "reply-to" button because I was actually replying to all sorts of people at once.

They are not breaking the law.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Law, the greatest and most important Law in the United States, the First Amendment to the United States Constitution
clearly protects these liberties.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I too am shocked at the irony in here. Then to top it off, people have the audacity to claim that since their hate-driven speech is the majority, that it's right and okay. All it means is that we have a whole lot of irrational people on here who are no better than those they claim to hate.

reply to post by muzzleflash


There seems to be two different conversations taking place.

You seem to be hell bent on arguing in favor of the constitutionality of what the WBC is doing.
You are making this about the WBC vs. The Government/Laws.
when in fact, it is the WBC against the PEOPLE!
Whether or not it is Constitutional for them to do it is not the issue.

WHEN WHEN WHEN, the PEOPLE decide they've had enough of this B.S.
The constitution isn't going to be thick enough to stop that .50 Cal Round to the head.

There is LEGAL
and then there is MORAL!

What the WBC is doing MAY be leagal but it is not moral.
What a SNIPER will do WILL NOT be legal NOR moral,
But,
The protests that are causing mothers and fathers untold heartache

WILL END!!!!

and Parents/Family will once again enjoy the freedom to mourn their Fallen heros without being harrassed.

I will say it again,

YOUR RIGHTS END,
Where MINE BEGIN!!!!!

I have the RIGHT to mourn my loved ones in peace without being harrassed.

THE END!!!!

Edit to add:
Before anyone decides to put words in my mouth,
I NEVER said I support or condone these actions. I merely see them as inevitable and
can see the obvious outcome of said actions when they occur.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Really ? That's funny ... since you DID NOT read my post (otherwise you wouldn't have just posted what you did) I will post it again:

Laws prohibiting hate speech outside of obscenity, defamation and incitement to riot are illegal in the United States.

An obscenity (in Latin obspenus, meaning "foul, repulsive, detestable") is any statement or act which strongly offends the prevalent morality of the time, is a profanity, or is otherwise taboo, indecent, abhorrent, or disgusting, or is especially inauspicious. The term is also applied to an object that incorporates such a statement or displays such an act.

Just to make this clear. It IS illegal to prohibit hate speech laws. However. When it involves obscenity, defamation and incitement to riot, it is not. Therefore it is a crime.

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation.

"Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).


You're looking at the bold print in your "Freedom of Speech" when you should be reading the entire thing.

Originally posted by Screwed

I will say it again,

YOUR RIGHTS END,
Where MINE BEGIN!!!!!

I have the RIGHT to mourn my loved ones in peace without being harrassed.

THE END!!!!

No you don't. Not at an outdoor funeral. That just isn't how it works. Rights can't overrule other rights. That's like saying I have the right to go grocery shopping in peace and quiet. Sure, if I go at 3 in the morning I might be able to achieve that, but I can't prohibit other people from talking while I'm there just so they don't disturb my peace.

Originally posted by Screwed
You are making this about the WBC vs. The Government/Laws.
when in fact, it is the WBC against the PEOPLE!
Whether or not it is Constitutional for them to do it is not the issue.

Thank God this isn't a Democracy.

Thank God we are a Republic.

The Constitution instructs the Government about what it's rules are, and it's mandates.

The Government has to, by Law, protect and uphold the Liberty of it's Citizens from other Citizens seeking to trample it.

This is about the Government protecting WBC from the people's tyranny.
This is about upholding Constitutional Law.
This is about learning True Freedom, the Hard Way.
By respecting Phelps right to protest, you are respecting the sacrifice that US Soldiers are making with their very Lives.

The Soldiers of this Nation fight to protect Liberty. They pay for it in their blood. And I Salute Them. This protest is a celebration of their sacrifice and a celebration of Liberty.

You may not realize that yet, but when your Freedom is being stripped from you, and you are being attacked for it, you will remember this.

And I will be there to defend you. The Constitution will be there to defend you.

It's called "Disturbing the Peace" and is an offense.
Just because they have picket signs and their "Freedom of Speech", doesn't mean they can make that law go away.

muzzleflash,
Lets for a second, move the whole "Freedom of Speech" thing to the side.
Do you feel what the WBC are doing, morally wrong in any way ? Lets just go with right and wrong here. Morals.

reply to post by SMR


OK. Constitution 101.
Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution

The Supremacy Clause is a clause in the United States Constitution, article VI, paragraph 2. The clause establishes the U.S. Constitution, Federal Statutes, and U.S. treaties as "the supreme law of the land." The text decrees these to be the highest form of law in the U.S. legal system, mandating that all state judges must follow federal law in the face of conflicting state law or when a conflict arises between federal law and a state constitution.

This means that every time you pass a "hate speech law" that conflicts with the 1st Amendment, it is Unconstitutional and the Supreme Court will overturn it.

You cannot make a law higher than the Supreme Law of the Land.
These "hate speech" laws are clearly being trumped.

With the power of freedom comes a responsibility to fellow man.

It is sad to see how the Westboro folks are behaving irresponsibly with their powers.

My fullest condolences to the family of the fallen.

There is no way to curb the din of irresponsible others, not should if we are to protect our freedoms.

A solution would be to have the hallowed ground upon which the fallen and mourners deemed temporary private, and those irresponsible with freedom can stay the hell far away, which cannot drown out the silence necessary for the mourners to remember the precious gift of live the fallen had touched while alive.

Trespassers have no right on private property, more so over fallen victims were mean much to the mourners, for the gift of life is precious no matter what he had done, and with death only comes the rememberance of the good the fallen had touch other lives in his own way, a private and sacred affair no others not involved should trample upon...

Originally posted by SMR
muzzleflash,
Lets for a second, move the whole "Freedom of Speech" thing to the side.
Do you feel what the WBC are doing, morally wrong in any way ? Lets just go with right and wrong here. Morals.

It is right morally to speak your opinion on public property.
It is right morally to respect other's rights to do the same.

I may not agree with WBC, but I clearly defend their Liberty.
As I shall defend yours.

Defending Liberty is also morally right.

reply to post by SMR


Disturbing the peace? With a picket sign? 300 yards away?

Are they forcing the funeral goers to go totally out of their way to look at the sign and be disturbed?

They didn't disrupt at all. Actually, the father of the dead soldier didn't even know they were there until he saw it on TV later on. Shows how much his peace was disturbed...

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SMR
muzzleflash,
Lets for a second, move the whole "Freedom of Speech" thing to the side.
Do you feel what the WBC are doing, morally wrong in any way ? Lets just go with right and wrong here. Morals.

It is right morally to speak your opinion on public property.
It is right morally to respect other's rights to do the same.

I may not agree with WBC, but I clearly defend their Liberty.
As I shall defend yours.

Defending Liberty is also morally right.

I could squeeze a fart from a sewn up fleas ass easier than getting a straight answer from you.

DO YOU FEEL IT IS RIGHT that someone holds up a sign that reads "Pray for more dead soldiers" at a soldiers funeral ? If you looked over and saw that, would you feel it is MORALLY right regardless of any law or right given by that law.

Originally posted by Epiphron
reply to post by SMR

 

Disturbing the peace? With a picket sign? 300 yards away?

Are they forcing the funeral goers to go totally out of their way to look at the sign and be disturbed?

They didn't disrupt at all. Actually, the father of the dead soldier didn't even know they were there until he saw it on TV later on. Shows how much his peace was disturbed...

Yes. Disturbing the peace.
Disturbing the peace is a crime generally defined as the unsettling of proper order in a public space through one's actions. This can include creating loud noise by fighting or challenging to fight, disturbing others by loud and unreasonable noise (including loud music), or using offensive words or insults likely to incite violence.

You also need to read before posting. From the article:

"When my son died, I knew two days ahead of time that they were coming," Snyder said. "I had other children that I had to worry about that didn't know what was going on."

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Isn't it funny that people hate Westboro more than Westboro hates gays?

I just think people are turning into tyrannical psychopaths.

That's the nutshell right there.

We emulate psychopaths because they are our business and government leaders, they're on TV and movies, they are the military. The more convincing an actor is at projecting false emotion, the more we call him genius.

Ever wonder why basic training is needed at all if killing is such a great way to solve problems? Basic training exists because we humans, at least the sane ones. are hardwired to not want to kill each other. Most of us would rather die than kill, so to be good soldiers (read: functioning psychopaths) we need to be brainwashed into killing other humans. This is what the military calls basic training...it should more accurately be labeled psychopath training.