EXCLUSIVE "What in The World Are They Spraying" Chemist talks to ATS about Geoengineering.

Update:

He's having computer problems.

I got an email from him presumably from his cell phone.

Richard - my computer crashed - no guess if it can be fixed. Will try to get back onsite soon - please let the other folks know, they have my apologies.
Lenny
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

reply to post by pianopraze

Thanks for the update

He's having computer problems.

Somebody's gonna say it so..... maybe there are efforts to stop the truth going on here!
Sabotage the mans computer so he can not participate in discussions that may illuminate the public!
Just a little humor here, but you know how some of our minds work around here, suspect first, find answers later!
I hope he can work it out....

spec

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Someone else has to say it.
There are two sides to that line of speculation.

I am having some severe computer problems, but i will try again to respond. Thank you for the positive input.

The first thing to address is what to do about breathing the air. The best thing to do is to eat well. Taking in a good diet with an eye toward healthy food is extremely important. This means giving up fast food and carbonated beverages. If your metabolism is normal, you can eliminate what comes in fairly fast. I personally take no big pharma products - not even aspirin.

As far as the spraying goes, i cannot confirm that the material comes from spraying, but process of elimination takes away most of the other possibilities. The geo-engineering seems to be worthless from an albedo lowering point, but i have problems believing that TPTB would poison themselves deliberately. The china smokestack theory falls apart when you compare Mt. Shasta data to Mt. St. Helens data - they are not similar. I looked at the snow melt data that Francis had - it was from a certified analytical lab with proper quality control.

Speaking chemistry - barium and strontium are both alkali earth metals - similar to calcium and magnesium. They are larger than the normal divalent biological metals, but should not be toxic by themselves. Barium is used as an image contrast agent, Aluminum on the other hand is a major threat, at both low and high pH. I do not think that the spraying drives the pH in either water or land - just not enough mass present.

The problem with aluminum is two fold. First, it is a 3+ cation and so when it substitutes into bio-systems it replaces a calcium and another atom of sodium or potassium, in order to balance charge. This leaves a hole, which gets space filled by changing protein folding. This creates prion diseases, like mad cow and CJD. It is also strongly implicated in Alzheimer's disease. The second problem is that at physiological pH, aluminum is deposited as a precipitate Al2O3. This chemical is very inert. So inert that the bio-mechanisms of the body have no ability to remove alumina from the system. The only things that will remove it are physical processes, body chemistry is stuck. Enough and you start getting arteriosclerosis and blood pressure problems.

This is a start - i will read all the other posts and continue answering tomorrow. Realize, i would like the answers too. The geo-engineering theory is based on solar radiation prevention; i do not think it has any chance of being effective. We are having some magnetic anomalies and spraying metals in the air just creates a huge atmospheric capacitor. The discharge could wipe out all electonics - so we better get our answers quickly.

thanks for listening and please do ask about statements that require more depth.

lemme

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


i have to agree - i believe that i have been harassed for the past four years, mebbe longer. Today, i had my last post delete itself twice - once in the crash and a second time on this back-up computer in a two key swish - one tap highlighted everything, the next erased it all. Very frustrating for a touch typist.

Well this is getting kind of interesting, just giving this thread a bump. Don't really have any questions really but here goes one. To lemmehowdt if this conspiracy has some facts to it, would all the chemicals that you say you found in your samples, what do you think would be the effects on human bodies/biology if it gets circulated on mass throughout the environment, basically who would this effect first and the most? If it is dangerous at all, and on what level?

Also "off topic" whats with the ormus gold? you say your working on, from what I read on that stuff, the stories go anywhere from the really out there things, like it makes you transgress reality, to it rejuvenates your skin. That is all, peace out.

reply to post by lemmehowdt

Welcome back. I hope it lasts.

Thank you for addressing the pH issue. In your opinion, the rise in pH discussed in the movie is not related to spraying.

Please address the fact that the aluminum levels found in the Lake Shasta area do not seem to be unusual when compared to historical data from other locations or an overall average of aluminum content in soils.

Have you found historical data for the Lake Shasta area which indicates any increase in aluminum or the other metals of concern. If there is no baseline for the natural metal levels in the region, how can any outside influence be considered at all?

On a side note. It seems that the spraying of metals into the atmosphere would not create a capacitor effect, rather it would seem to be more likely, if anything, to create a circuit between the ionosphere and the earth. It would let the electrical potential more readily flow rather than arc.

Thank you for addressing the BSE connection as that was
going to be my question. It's difficult to find information relating
to Aluminum or soil.

Ektar

Thanks OP S & F, been trying to go back & forth between the threads.

reply to post by defcon5

Did you take the samples directly from the aircraft exhaust? Did you acquire an aircraft to directly sample the contents of the contrails themselves?

Did you watch the video??
If so you'd know the answers are no and no..

It's not often we get someone from a popular video to come onto ATS to discuss directly and agree to anwer questions..

I honestly can't fathom why YOU would post such obviously STUPID questions..
If we wish people like this to come on more often do you not think it would be nice to treat them with a little respect??

The fact you are a Mod only increases the crime..

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by speculativeoptimist

 

Someone else has to say it.
There are two sides to that line of speculation.

Yep and it's well noted what side of the line you are on..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by defcon5

 

Did you take the samples directly from the aircraft exhaust? Did you acquire an aircraft to directly sample the contents of the contrails themselves?

Did you watch the video??
If so you'd know the answers are no and no..

It's not often we get someone from a popular video to come onto ATS to discuss directly and agree to anwer questions..

I honestly can't fathom why YOU would post such obviously STUPID questions..
If we wish people like this to come on more often do you not think it would be nice to treat them with a little respect??

The fact you are a Mod only increases the crime..

This is a good point. This is a prime chance for ATS to shine. I am in talks to get the rest of the film producers to come in here.

Everyone please be on your best behavior and be respectful, even if you have strong feelings one way or another. This is a rare opportunity.

If you disagree please do so civilly. ATS is a very civil place normally, but lets step it up a notch. Let's leave any bickering to other threads. These are guests of some notoriety. How we treat them reflects on ATS as a whole and will help or damage future efforts to get quality guests here.

I love ATS and am doing my best to help it flourish. I know a lot of you feel the same.

reply to post by lemmehowdt


I was very interested to read your concerns regarding aluminium; I was researching the effects of mercury on humans, and came across some info regarding mercury contamination which referenced the EPA's stance on Aluminium. They state they do not consider it a toxic element, so do not have any restrictions, limitations or suggestions regarding its effects on the environment?

Basically, the EPA will impose restrictions on how much mercury can be dumped in our environment, but they won't even consider thinking about restrictions on how much aluminium can be dumped in our environment.

Prion diseases are serious!

If this is the case (that alum contamination leads to prion disease), why would you suppose the EPA won't implement restrictions on outputting the element into the environment? Could this lend credence to the suggestion that the dispersion (whether accidental or deliberate) of this element is not restricted, as it is vital in geo-engineering projects?

Here's the official EPA spiel regarding aluminium:

Aluminum

Toxicity information about aluminum is generally lacking. It has been determined that fish tend to be more sensitive to aluminum toxicity than aquatic invertebrates (Sparling et al. 1997). Aluminum can cause pulmonary and developmental problems. Aluminum toxicity has been linked to soil pH--the amount of soluble aluminum, rather than the total aluminum concentration in the soil. Soils at a site with a pH greater than 5.5 can generally be considered non-toxic in terms of aluminum.

(my emphasis)


Source: EPA toxicological profiles


It seems the EPA doesn't take aluminium too seriously... In comparison, here's their statement (from the same source) regarding arsenic:

In plants, arsenic has been shown to cause wilting, chlorosis, browning, dehydration, mortality, and inhibition of light activation (Eisler 1988a). Arsenic is a carcinogen (cancer-causing), teratogen, and possible mutagen (causing mutations in genes/DNA) in mammals (ATSDR 1993). Chronic exposure can result in fatigue, gastrointestinal distress, anemia, neuropathy, and skin lesions that can develop into skin cancer in mammals. It can cause death in soil microbiota and earthworms. Cancer-causing and genetic mutation-causing effects occur in aquatic organisms, with those effects including behavioral impairments, growth reduction, appetite loss, and metabolic failure. Aquatic bottom feeders are more susceptible to arsenic. In birds tolerance to arsenic varies among species, but effects include destruction of gut blood vessels, blood-cell damage, muscular incoordination, debility, slowness, jerkiness, falling, hyperactivity, fluffed feathers, drooped eyelids, immobility, seizures, and systemic, growth, behavioral, and reproductive problems (Stanley et al. 1994; Whitworth et al. 1991; Camardese et al. 1990).

Note the correlation between a public perception of toxicity and the amount of info they put into their statements?

EPA staff writer: "EVERYONE knows that arsenic is toxic, so we'd better list a load of studies and details of illness caused by the substance. Conversely - aluminium is used in soda cans, so people don't believe it's toxic. Therefore, we can get away with a blase statement pandering to the public's preconceived notions, conveniently ignoring the horrific diseases that alum dispersion can apparently cause..."


My questions:

Are there any significant journal studies supporting the links between aluminium and prion disease? Why are the EPA able to get away with BS science in this way? Why are more scientists not questioning their failure to identify and highlight the dangers of aluminium toxicity?

My preliminary conclusion regarding the above questions - within the context of everything else I'm learning about the chemtrailing subject - is as follows: Aluminium is useful for geo-engineering, and as a result, 'someone' has leaned on the EPA to ensure that a 'fluoride-like-scam' is repeated over the next 50 years or so while they chuck a load of aluminium into the atmosphere...


Oh and by the way, and here's their little snippet about Barium:

Barium

Elevated levels of barium can induce a wide range of effects in mammals including gastrointestinal distress, muscular paralysis, and cardiovascular effects. Barium is does not bioaccumulate, and concentrations in higher species rarely exceed 10 mg/kg (Moore 1991).

Note the poor grammar! Maybe someone was in a rush to edit something...


************************** *****************************


Also, while checking sources for this post, I came across a neat little article about the EPA and HHS reversals on their 'fluoride is good for you' stance (a little off-topic, but useful to show the type of collusion that can exist as the result of a little industrial lobbying):

EPA and HHS Reverses Stance on Fluoride – i.e. They Finally Admit that Your Tap Water is Poisoned

60 years later and we finally realised that adding fluoride to the water was a scam - to allow for widespread dumping of a toxic industrial byproduct into the water-table??? The guy who represented the industry at the time became the head of the HHS after the arguments? We are dumb with a capital 'D'.

Some little gems in that article, worth checking out.


Thanks to PianoPraze for the thread, and to Dr Lenny Thyme for taking the time to join us here in the midst of these most controversial of discussions. Star and Flag.!!!


Fly.

reply to post by leaualorin


Lowering the tone a bit there matey, especially considering PianoPraze's gentle reminder in the post before yours.

Leave the accusations of 'disinfo agent' out of this thread (it makes ATS look a bit silly), and let people come to their own conclusions based on the evidence and information being shared.

We have the opportunity to discuss chemtrails in a civilised thread for once - let's keep it civilised!

reply to post by Phage


Phage - I appreciate that you're trying your darndest to be polite; however, do you not think it's a bit 'obvious' that you are focusing on phrasing your posts so keenly to secure support for your debunk of the Mt Shasta data from this particular video?

What questions might you have of his otherwise highly relevant professional experience regarding aerosol dispersion technologies, the infrastructure necessary to promulgate the technologies, and the scientific rationale for their use?

I agree that the Doctor's input in the video is relevant and to be addressed, but I feel that this is also a chance to get some wider contextual information (from a relevant and verifiable professional's opinion on the SUBJECT of aerosol dispersion and geoengineering/ chemtrailing - a subject which many at ATS have tried hard to thoroughly ridicule in times past...)


EDIT TO ADD - sorry Phage, I see that you have asked a relevant question about another aspect of geoengineering at the end of your post. Still, let's keep the subject as open as possible to make sure there's a free-flow of thought. Fascinating chance for everyone to get along politely in a thread about chemtrails!

I suggest people wanting to discuss with phage keep on doing that in the thread he pasted here. He, like others should be able to ask questions in this thread, and it would be really beautiful if we could keep this thread pointed towards Dr. Thyme, as it was meant. He is obviously able to do several two-way discussions at the same time, and in my book that is the way it should be. If you don't agree with Dr. Thyme, this is really the place to discuss, but if you don't agree with phage or any other people in this thread, there are several other threads you can go on discussing that.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by speculativeoptimist

 

Someone else has to say it.
There are two sides to that line of speculation.

Yep and it's well noted what side of the line you are on..

there are two side to that speculation and asking questions does not put you on either of them sides. the questions are relevant and add to the value of the discussion. the doctor should be able to answer them and if he cant fit them in with his theory will need to re-evaluate it. that is how good discussion works it is not about sides.

Truth has no sides..

kx

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by leaualorin

 

Lowering the tone a bit there matey, especially considering PianoPraze's gentle reminder in the post before yours.

Leave the accusations of 'disinfo agent' out of this thread (it makes ATS look a bit silly), and let people come to their own conclusions based on the evidence and information being shared.

We have the opportunity to discuss chemtrails in a civilised thread for once - let's keep it civilised!

edit on 3-3-2011 by FlyInTheOintment because: spelling

You know what?
Have your " civilized discussions" HERE , while the moderators keep deleting my posts , let "mister Phage" destroy /debunk /whatever in BOTH topics (first his shamless topic in wich even has the nerve to ask "ARE THEY SPRAYING ANYTHING?" ... Now here , in this one... ) !
I'm not gonna be "bothering you all" , I'm sick of your perverted characters and shameless behaviour!
This whole forum is a BAD JOKE!
I admit , when I joined this forum I had other expectations , but seems I was wrong all alone!

Simple question: If such geoengineering is actually happening, then we would expect to find similar increases in aluminium in all parts of the world. What evidence is there of this?

(we'll worry about how the geoengineering is being undertaken later)

I read that this spraying of metals will change the elektro-magnetic values/ properties in our atmosphere. This scientist wrote:

"-We are having some magnetic anomalies and spraying metals in the air just creates a huge atmospheric capacitor-"

Maybe our atmosphere is being altered so that certain, maybe giant spaceships or other alien stuff can operate.

It is a lot out of the box and crazy thinking but hey..that is what we humans can do. The fact that TPTB would not poison themselves and consider spraying this stuff necessary says something about their determination and need to have these chemicals up in the air.

Just my silly thoughts..