What the Bible teaches about homosexuality.

All I know is that folks have been having sex since they climbed out of the trees. I myself like women in the normal way. I understand that there are people that will get turned on in ways I can't get turned on by and thats ok (if it is not against the unwilling or mentally challeged or children under the age on consent "set by the law of the land", etc..)

Life is too short to worry about Charlie Sheen, peoples choices and what not.

We as a society just have to be logical.

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
I listened to your links.

But, it's not true.

He is only a man and is misunderstanding the faith.

Men are prone to folly.

You're going to have to do better than that. Quote sources. Just saying 'it's not true' doesn't make it so. Back up your statement.

If the right eye offends thee, pluck it out.
If they left hand offends thee, cut it off.

It is your own judgement of what is offensive that clouds your vision. You will always see a homosexual as beyond your unconditional love as long as YOU find it offensive. Because of this judgement, the world will judge you back. That is why Christ admonished his followers to NOT judge. Judge not, lest ye be judged, and by what measure ye mete, so shall be measured against thee.

With Love,

Your Brother

What I'm saying is I don't care what John MacArthur said.

He is not Christ - never will be Christ - Can't compare to Christ.

I care what Christ said - What Christ did.

Christ preached to a whore and loved her. That's pretty sexually immoral.

Christ preached to a drunkard and loved him.

Christ preached to a murderer and loved him.

Christ told a theif that he would go with him to paradise and loved him.

Christ asked God to forgive the very people who were killing him. Why? Because he loved them.

I don't remember seeing a scripture that said, "Behold, Christ came upon a homo and hated him. Scorned him and told him he's going to hell. Threw rocks at him and called all those who would come to hate the homo."

reply to post by CLPrime


You're a preacher? Really? You clearly haven't attended any seminary or biblical school. I can appreciate your disagreement with the author's point of view but please don't make such claims about the inaccuracy of the English translations of the scriptures.

If you have a point to make about the unreliability of English translations of the Bible then show examples from original texts in original languages, Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic and prove your points.

I suspect you are in no way a preacher that is associated with any church or denomination. I'm glad you feel yourself a preacher but I'm afraid you preach to a congregation of one each Sunday.... no disrespect intended.

The Bible (a book of many contradictions and plot holes) Is a mish mash of other books and writings, Some were good guidelines for the day and others good stories, It is often miss quoted and has been the cause of much death and misery over the century's (and still does to this day)..it is an old fashioned book and long out of date.
I have read the bible and found it bares no relation to me or my way of life today (I am not homosexual for the record), It is a convenient tool for bigots to aim their bile at other people whom they do not approve of, there for automatically making the said book useless.
I care not a jot how people interact sexually..it really is there business and not yours.
This topic often crops up and honestly is dull as a dish water...my advice is simple, Get a life and let others get on with theirs and the world would be a better place for it.

and we wonder why the prince of peace will come back to this earth spewing fire and death to those save hiselected.

I can picture the father right now raising his eyebrow at Jesus, giving that look of seriously you gave your life for them. I mean we even gave them a book and they cant get it right..still 2000 yrs later picking a choosing what to believe. You either read and understand the bible in its entirety and believe or dismiss it all as false. There is no middle ground except insanity. Also scripture must be taken in the context of the chapter atleast sheez. I have seen so much taken from one scripture a twisted to mean something that totally contridicts the spirit of the entire chapter.

Jesus will return for one simple reason I believe and that is not to correct the evil in men for there fate is already sealed but to correct the ones who claim to speak in his name but are actually trying to manipulate people for there purpose. anyone wants to know about GODS intent read Iasaih 58 then start reading Jesus's rebuking of the "considered elect" in the gospel. Then when you understand what jesus was trying to do. Read Acts and you should understand who you are by then.

The whole homo thing is just a distraction to keep people in the pews. Which is sad because they are battling the very thing they preach to protect. That is the holy spirit is crying out for people to change there ways, yet we continue to let our flesh, hate guilt, condemnation spew forth.

Remember when to stand together in prayer god is in the midst of them. That 2 isnt you and I. its you and your holy spirit. Jesus said the kingdom of god will be in us all, also he said the reason for this was that man isnt to teach gods ways anymore, that he will send his messenger to do this to dwell with us and guide us.

I think that most Christians should concentrate on the core message of the New Testament...the good news of Jesus Christ and his power to transform one's life. Far too many "religious" people get caught up in things that don't really help the human condition. They are the first to point out what is wrong with everybody else yet have the lack of conviction to look into one's self. Maybe, just maybe if all the people who picket outside of abortion clinics, rant and rave about homosexuality etc. spread the powerful word about Christ, this world would be a better place!!!

This is coming from a born again christian who is really questioning the whole framework of organized religion at this moment in time.

Just my .02

i'm sorry, but the bible is a piece of fiction.

I am a proud gay lad and if this book of fairytales dont like it then i dont care, i thought this was a conspiracy theory website not religious nuts anonymous!

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


CLPrime is the only person I see in this thread so far that actually shows knowledge of the Bible and shows that he actually studied it. Neither you, nor the OP have provided any of your OWN analysis of the scripture.

I know the Bible pretty well, and no, I don't claim to be a preacher nor did I ever go to seminary school, but in 9 years of private school, where we studied the Bible every day, as well as many many years of attending church and listening to the ordained ministers, the instances of me interpretting the Book differently then what was being told to me from the pulpit were greater than not. Just because CLPrime's interpretation doesnt match with what some other preachers have been spewing for years does not make it incorrect.

Deny ignorance, remember?

Originally posted by SalemWitch
I think that most Christians should concentrate on the core message of the New Testament...the good news of Jesus Christ and his power to transform one's life. Far too many "religious" people get caught up in things that don't really help the human condition. They are the first to point out what is wrong with everybody else yet have the lack of conviction to look into one's self. Maybe, just maybe if all the people who picket outside of abortion clinics, rant and rave about homosexuality etc. spread the powerful word about Christ, this world would be a better place!!!

This is coming from a born again christian who is really questioning the whole framework of organized religion at this moment in time.

Just my .02

If you question it my friend, then do not doubt the word inside you. Christ is within YOU. His church is the Brotherhood of Man. None did he deny his heart. It is up to us to look within and find the gift he gave us.

Freedom and love.

With Love,

Your Brother

What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality

This same kind of biblical ignorance is all too present around the topic of homosexuality. Often people who love and trust God's Word have never given careful and prayerful attention to what the Bible does or doesn't say about homosexuality.

For example, many Christians don't know that:

* Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
* The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
* Only six or seven of the Bible's one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way -- and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it's understood today.

Most people who are certain they know what the Bible says about homosexuality don't know where the verses that reference same-sex behavior can be found. They haven't read them, let alone studied them carefully. They don't know the original meaning of the words in Hebrew or Greek. And they haven't tried to understand the historical context in which those words were written. Yet the assumption that the Bible condemns homosexuality is passed down from generation to generation with very little personal study or research. The consequences of this misinformation are disastrous, not only for God's gay and lesbian children, but for the entire church.

Originally posted by la2
i'm sorry, but the bible is a piece of fiction.

I am a proud gay lad and if this book of fairytales dont like it then i dont care, i thought this was a conspiracy theory website not religious nuts anonymous!

Perhaps you should read some of the post by these "religious nuts" who are claming Christianity - including myself, and realize that some of us are trying to defend you against those who would hate you.

Like I said in another post - I don't agree with your lifestyle, but I'll love you none the less.

But, I understand why you are upset - you have probably gone your entire life with people judging you. You are probably always on the defensive.

reply to post by SalemWitch


I love it when a witch tells a christian how to live lol

reply to post by Layla


Sorry, but he simply doesn't know the Bible. I appreciate your passion in your feelings, but feelings don't make the argument. All I asked him to do was provide examples where there were errors in the English translations as he has claimed.

And as for the difference in your understanding of scripture and what the ordained ministers have said...well, good for you. But I doubt your understanding of the Bible is somehow superior to that of those who have studied it for years.

By your own words you show intolerance to the view points of those whom you disagree with.

My challenge to you is back up your passions and beliefs with some substance. Show why you believe what you believe. Is that so hard to ask in a forum such as this?

Originally posted by CLPrime

 

Okay, being a preacher who never trusts modern (per)versions of Scripture, I have to reply to this. I usually stick to the Physics, but I'm temporarily crossing over. Do not take English translations at face value. Ever.
I wrote something regarding this and posted it as a note on Facebook a couple weeks ago. Here's what the Bible says:

No matter what you say, someone will always be offended by it. As members of the body of Christ, if we stop speaking whenever our words might spark outrage, we would be a silent, and ineffective, witness. We cannot spread His Word with our mouths shut, or with any regard for our own sensibilities and physical wellbeing. When something needs to be said, we must say it.

(To anyone who reads this: ignore the world and its influence, if just for these next few minutes. And, perhaps more importantly, ignore the assumptions and distortions that have permeated denominationalism for centuries. “He who has an ear, let him hear.”)

Today (February 1, 2011), Illinois legalized same-sex civil unions, joining several others that stop short of legalizing same-sex marriage. In Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont, as well as in the nation’s capital, same-sex marriages are legal. In contrast, 31 states have constitutionally restricted “marriage” to be between one man and one woman.
Outside the US, ten nations have federally acknowledged the legality of same sex marriages, including Canada, and many others are currently debating the topic. Whether the union, and marriage, of same-sex couples should be recognized is a hot topic, with strong opinions on all sides. Those who know me, however, know that there is only one side I’m interested in. So, let’s take a look at what that side has to say.

Fundamentalist Christians (and, in the political arena, Conservatives – together representing the Archie Bunkers of this world) are well-known for their vocal opposition to same-sex marriage, as well as homosexuality or gender reversal of any kind. I have a significant respect for anyone who passionately bases their views on Scripture. This is a rare trait, and, not coincidentally, it is also the only way to truly know where to stand. This also leads to an important detail: where the Bible is silent, we should also be silent. As Christians, our opinions on topics such as this can only be Biblically supported if, in fact, the Bible speaks of that topic. If God saw fit to overlook certain subjects, then why should we assert our own prejudices?

What we need to do, then, is take a serious look at what Scripture has to say concerning homosexuality and related issues. If the Bible presents a side, that is the side we should take; if the Bible is silent, then we have no right to speak anymore than our own opinions. If all we have, in the end, is opinion, then we have no right to use those opinions to influence the lives of others.
That being said, there are a couple go-to passages that almost any fundamentalist/Conservative Christian will immediately recite in opposition to same-sex marriage:

Leviticus 20:13 (KJV) – “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Deuteronomy 23:17 (KJV) – “There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”

Romans 1:26–27 (KJV) – “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

Jude 1:7 (KJV) – “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

Notice that two of these rely on an interpretation of what happened in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is described in Genesis 19. A thorough analysis of this event would be space-consuming, but even just an overview of that chapter leads to an interesting realization. Traditionally, we have been taught that the crime of these two cities was a grab-bag of sexual immorality. However, a re-read of what happened should reveal that this was, in fact, not what incurred God’s wrath. Genesis 19:12–13 reads, “And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.” This judgement was following an incident in which the people of the city were hostile against Lot, and was the pivotal moment that led to their destruction. Why? Because this was an exceptional violation of a very specific commandment: “Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Exodus 22:21, KJV). The sin of Sodom was not of a sexual nature (although the land did represent much of what God detested in heathen nations); rather, it was a sin of antagonism against a stranger in their land. This is confirmed by Jesus, Himself, when he tells His apostles, “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.” (Matthew 10:14–15). Just as Sodom and Gomorrha, the sin of those Jesus spoke of was a refusal to accept His people.

Consequently, the term “sodomite” has come to refer to someone who is sexually perverse, but this term is deceptive, and its use in Deuteronomy 23:17 is, therefore, also deceptive. The original Hebrew word which is translated as “sodomite” in this case is qadesh. Note that this has no connection with the name Sodom, which is from S(e)dom. Qadesh, instead, refers specifically to male prostitutes engaging in ritualistic sex in Pagan temples. It has no homosexual connotations and to be translated as such is a distortion of Scripture.
Additionally, the feminine equivalent of qadesh, quedeshaw, is often (loosely, but more accurately) translated as “whore”. This clearly has no homosexual connotations.

This leaves a pair of passages: those in Leviticus and Romans.
The two verses in Romans are the key Scripture used to present an anti-homosexual stand based in the New Testament. When we read them, however, two things need to be taken into consideration. The first is the context in which they were written. The second is the use of the word “nature”.
First, the author of Romans was writing at a time in which homosexuality and, to an even greater extent, bisexuality were rampant within the Roman Empire, especially within the persistent Pagan temples of those who had already heard the Word of God.
Second, what was the “nature” of those who practised this form of gender-bending? Obviously, this nature was that of heterosexuality. But, the significance of this can only be seen when we combine this with the context of the passage. When we do this, we see that the writer of Romans was not condemning homosexuality. He was, however, condemning the homosexuality present in Pagan temples, which was for the purpose of prostitution and went against the nature of those practicing it. These were “straight” men acting “gay” for the purpose of making money within the temples of Pagan gods; this was not an explicit condemnation of individuals who were (or are, even today) homosexual by nature.

Finally, in Leviticus, we have an explicit pronouncement of death should any man “also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman.” Save for the death penalty, this is a reiteration of Leviticus 18:22. Admittedly, the simplest interpretation of this Scripture, taking both the context and the original language into consideration, remains one of anti-homosexual sentiment. Here, it is clearly stated that a man who “lies” with a man as with a woman is guilty of an “abomination”. Regardless of the definition of “abomination”, the meaning is obvious, but, for the sake of utmost clarity, let’s dig a little deeper.
What, exactly, is an “abomination”? The Hebrew word here is to’ebah. This carries a connotation of Pagan condemnation, and suggests that the cause for condemnation was ritualistic uncleanness. Whether something was “clean” or “unclean” was of utmost importance to the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant.
Why was it important whether something was clean or unclean? Because the actions of the Israelites were ultimately the source of their salvation. They performed ritualistic sacrifice to cleanse themselves of sin. Anyone who was not cleansed in this way was guilty of violating the Law, as were those who brought unclean acts into the land of Israel. Therefore, anything that was unclean was called to’ebah – an abomination.
What else was unclean? Here are just a few examples:

pork, shrimp, and lobster (Leviticus 11);
menstruation, any bodily discharge of fluid, and anything or anyone these fluids came into contact with (Leviticus 15);
meat with blood, crossbreeding, shaving, and tattoos (Leviticus 19).

And this is where the vast majority of Christians fail to understand the significance of Jesus and the New Covenant. We no longer live under the Law. Today, we live under Grace, and our actions are no longer a means to salvation. Instead, our salvation rests on the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God. It no longer matters whether a thing or action is clean or unclean. What matters now is faith, repentance, and baptism into the Kingdom of God.

How can we effectively testify to that Grace if we spend our time and effort decrying varying definitions of gender and judging individuals who are living according to their nature (recall Romans 1:26–27)? Homosexuals, bisexuals, transsexuals, and heterosexuals all live their lives by this nature, and to deny all but the social “norm” the most basic of rights – the right to be free in the mind and body they were given – is not in the job description of God’s people. This is our duty: to encourage all people to be faithful in the work God has for each of us. Anything beyond that is insolence to the Grace of God and the saving power of His Son.

Great information, thanks.

Coincidentally, just 30 minutes before you posted this, I posted:

Oh, regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, their sin was inhospitality. The traditions of these tribes, being accustomed to a dangerously arid and lifeless landscape, held the visitor as sacred. They were to be fed and cared for. The locals wish to rape the "angels" was the ultimate manifestation of inhospitality. Lot's goodness was proven by him inviting the angels into his home, feeding them, and even going to the farthest extreme; offering the mob his daughters to rape in order to keep his guests safe.

Sadly, people reading the bible are all too often only aware of the meanings modern Christianity has put on its contents. This tradition of hospitality, which should be remembered by all those who base their beliefs on the bible, has long been forgotten by many of today's Christians. However it was so important to Jesus that he expanded it, initially by illustrating with his parable of the good Samaritan that this hospitality was due to all we meet who are in need, not only those who we have invited inside, and then making such care for others the basis of his final judgement, as illustrated in his sermon on the separation of the sheep from the goats.


I look forward to reading more of your posts on Christianity.
- (and on physics)

reply to post by zeevar


Your statements on the validity of the Bible are ones we have heard before many times. The funny thing is, when I challenge people like yourself to show examples of these gross contradictions and errors, guess what?

None are ever posted. LOL

Look, I'm not trying to make you mad here but I am putting you up to the challenge to prove your point.
Show us errors and contradictions in the Bible and let's have a good debate on those.

Show us why you believe what you believe.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


First of all, I never stated what I believe either way, did I? I also never said that my understanding of the Bible is superior to anyone elses.

The knowledge of ordained ministers who studied under OTHER ministers, down the line, passing on THIER belief of what the information says doesn't make it so.

I'll give you a hypothetical. Lets go to an idea such as in the movie "The Village". Lets say, there's a village of people who have modern knowledge, but the elders choose to live differently and teach the next generations differently. So, (and this wasn't in the movie, I know) let's say they decide to teach math. But they aren't comofrtable with the numbers as they are now. So, the decided that 2 +6 is actually 10, not 8. And they decide that the word multiply actually means divide. They teach this "knowledge" for generations, the people learning under them never knew any other kind of math, so this is what they know, its what they believe, it's what they understand. It is their truth. But it doesn't mean it is THE truth.

My point being, I'm not going to rely on "the church" to tell me how I should interpret the Bible. I'm not going to stop eating meat on Friday's because an ordained Priest tells me to. I'm going to seek out the knowledge myself, and if coincides with what is being taught in the church, then thats fabulous. If not, I'm going to keep seeking, questioning, interpretting, until I am satisfied.

CLPrime gave a very well thought out analysis of scripture. He did go to the root words. You spat out that he was wrong. You did not rebutt him at all. You did not say "Well, the original Hebrew word was actually such and such..." just basically called him a liar.

Point being, if you believe you have more knowledge than him, maybe you should back up your claims with your own input instead of just saying he's wrong, and that he's not a preacher.

By the way, there is a Christian denomination whose numbers are rapidly growing that DO preach what CLPrime has stated. They have actual churches, ordained ministers and everything. But, I bet "True Christians" would call the a cult :/

Originally posted by Layla
reply to post by Rockstrongo37

 

CLPrime is the only person I see in this thread so far that actually shows knowledge of the Bible and shows that he actually studied it. Neither you, nor the OP have provided any of your OWN analysis of the scripture.

I know the Bible pretty well, and no, I don't claim to be a preacher nor did I ever go to seminary school, but in 9 years of private school, where we studied the Bible every day, as well as many many years of attending church and listening to the ordained ministers, the instances of me interpretting the Book differently then what was being told to me from the pulpit were greater than not. Just because CLPrime's interpretation doesnt match with what some other preachers have been spewing for years does not make it incorrect.

Deny ignorance, remember?

I will warn people now, my interpretation of the Bible is rarely the same as the popular opinion...because the popular opinion has been perverted by false interpretations and personal agendas. That's why I rarely speak about it here. It's easier to show the math behind physical laws - it's not so easy to show the false logic behind deceptive doctrines.
I actually study the Bible from a contextual standpoint. I only form an opinion after I know what was meant by the original words and the original context. And thank you for recognizing that

By the way, if anyone wants to see my sermons to judge my preaching abilities for themselves, or for any other reason, you can message me, and I'll be more than happy to tell you how to find me on Facebook. Starting with my last sermon, I am posting every sermon I preach on Facebook from now on, to get the Word out.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


Yes, I am a preacher. And no, I have never had any official schooling in the area. How many of the Apostles attended Bible college? How many of the first Christians that we find in the Book of Acts?
I'll answer that for you: not one. They had authority to preach because they understood the Bible, not because they had a diploma.

I am a non-denominational preacher, and I preach when the regular preacher at the 2 churches here is away, or on certain special occasions. These churches here are not denominations. They are buildings where about a dozen people each gather on the first day of every week for the Lord's Supper, as the early Church did in Acts. We only claim to be fellowships of members of the Kingdom of God. No denomination can claim to be the Kingdom of God.

Also, as far as not trusting modern translations... my point was, we need to go deeper than the English, because the Bible was not written in English. It was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Therefore, we should always know what was being said in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. That's what I do.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
What I'm saying is I don't care what John MacArthur said.

He is not Christ - never will be Christ - Can't compare to Christ.

I care what Christ said - What Christ did.

I don't remember seeing a scripture that said, "Behold, Christ came upon a homo and hated him. Scorned him and told him he's going to hell. Threw rocks at him and called all those who would come to hate the homo."

Christ spoke out against homosexuality here Matthew 19:4-6 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

It's crystal clear on the topic of sex and marriage.

Here is verses of Christ talking about Hell:

Matthew 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Mark 9:48 where “‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Christ spoke about Hell, you just choose to ignore it. He spoke about Hell more than anyone else in the Bible. It's a serious matter.

.