Why hasn't the US made a formal apology to the Native Americans?

Originally posted by kro32


The reason you shouldn't be compensated for your grandfather being held prisoner is that your life was not adversly affected by his imprisonment whereas the native americans can directly trace their current situation to their handling by the U.S. government.

My original point was not to question the legitamacy of their claims now but rather the belief alot of tribal people hold about the origination of their blame.

No. My life and others, were not adversly affected by his or any other of our ancestors imprisonment and the reason is that my grandparents, parents and myself want our children to have things easier and better than their own generation did. My grandparents dealt with it, and started over. With nothing but 5 kids. Don't tell me that the Indians are in their current situation by the handling or rather mishandling by the US gov't.

Whether or not the US gov't was to blame in the past is no reason to blame them for current problems...yes, they should, and did, apologize for the ignorance and massacre in the past...but "white man" never got an apology from the Indian Nation.

Every LITTLE thing that happens in your and anyones life has to do with the choices of the individual. If you can't control the physical, change your mental being.

Maya Angelou said it best, "If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude."

I got the 30,000,000 deaths of Native American Indians from the invasion of the Europeans off the web. That is the estimate of 150 years of war. By 1800 the census taken as near as they could get. there were about 100,000 American Indians left. Some tribes had very few left in them.
Now below is including North and South America.
(The number of Indigenous people who died, because of the European invasion Columbus initiated, is incalculable. The closest number one can estimate, when taking into consideration that the slaughter started in 1492, is several hundred millions. And, the vast majority of the millions who are the remnant of the original great civilizations that once prospered across the two continents, live a poverty stricken existence. )

How would an apology benefit you? Would it change your life or would you go about your usual business? I'm pretty sure you'd go about your usual business. I know I would. I have indian blood running through me, but I can't remember what kind. Seeking an apology just makes it look like you're being arrogant. Ya, it sucks what happened to indians, but I feel the same way about apologizing to indians as I do about apologizing to african americans about slavery. It's meaningless and won't change the fact that it happen. Everyone will live regardless of if there's an apology or not and noone will say "Well crap, they finally apologized so it's time to make a change!"

I know someone is going to reply to this and be like "It's the principle of the fact." But it's thinking like that which is going to tear this country apart more than it already is. Forget the past and look at the future, it's going to happen regardless if you hear an apology or not.

I’m so sick of this high and mighty “people of the earth” crap from anyone who claims to have one ounce of “Indian Blood”. What do you think the Pilgrims had when they came to America, a bunch of generators and computers? No, they had to make their own forts (to protect themselves from the savage Indians) and they made their own houses, farms, plows, and even ships. They didn’t have it any easier than the Indians did, they just were a hell of a lot smarter about using their brains to invent the tools that they needed to prosper.

Not all Indians lived in Tepee’s, just the ones who followed the herds around the plains. In the book Guns, Germs, and Steel the author explains that innovation occurs in all societies in response to demands and supplies. The Egyptians used papyrus for writing because they didn’t have many trees. The Island natives ate fish and were better sailors due to a lack of arable land. The plains Indians lived in portable tepee’s because they followed the ever moving herds of buffalo across the plains.

There is nothing noble about not being innovative enough to create better tools to do the jobs at hand. In fact, it was their savage, constant murdering of their neighboring Indian tribes is the precise reason that they never developed greater technologies. Being constantly on the move and constantly defending themselves from their neighbors placed severe limits on technological innovation. As well, religious ideologies also limit innovation as referenced in many societies once the dominant religion changes (example Islam gaining dominance in the birthplace of Algebra.

So any plight of the Indians were brought about by their own hand and they are the ones to blame for it. Even today, innovation among Indian tribes lacks because their sleep on the dirt and like it attitude prevents them from creating for themselves better living conditions. The fact that many of these tree hugger Indians today live in brick homes getting their food from the grocery store only proves that technology does not destroy their beliefs. Ones mindset is not dominated by ones living conditions. It is a factor, yes, but history proves that many intelligent persons only grew in their ideologies in response to severe changes in living conditions. Gandhi, Many Catholic Priests and saints, and Nelson Mandela are perfect examples.

So, the evils of technology have done little to destroy Indian beliefs, in fact, one can argue that they have done more to promote them then recently than at any other time in history. So, basically, the pilgrims had it just as tough, were just as tough, and were more benevolent and kind than the Indians were. It was only after many decades and constant Indian attacks that they defended themselves from Indian terrorism by pushing them all the way to the sea. They started the fight with settlers over land that they said that no one even owned, including themselves, and they simply lost the war completely. There is no apology necessary except on the part of the Indians themselves who started the war in the first place and have lied about their own beliefs and philosophies when it suits them including the idea that no Indian owns land and therefore no one can trespass upon their lands. When the Indians apologize for their constant hundreds of years warfare against others, including other Indians, then and only then should anyone apologize to them.

reply to post by gabbermatt

I am Creek Indian and Cherokee , a mixture of Irish, French and Russian. My ancestors from
Europe could probably be some that helped with the demise of some of my ancestral American Indians.
The same with many of you. You also have ancestry on both sides. I am trying to speak for the Indians for it seems they don't have very many advocates on their side.
The the death toll of Europeans had to be very high also. (I say Europeans because some object to the term white man) I couldn't find an estimate of the deaths on that.
Below is something that Little Wolf of the Northern Cheyennes said...1879
WE have been South and have suffered a great deal down there. Many have died of diseases which we have no name for.Our hearts looked and longed for this country where we were born, There are only a few of us left, and we only wanted a little ground where we could live. We left our lodges and ran away into the night.The troops followed us. I rode out and told the troops we did not want to fight: we only want to go North, and if they would leave us alone no one would get killed.The only reply we got was volley. After that we had to fight our way, but we killed none who did not fire at us first. MY brother, Dull Knife, took one half of our band and surrendered at Fort Robinson. They gave up their guns then the whites killed them all.
This is not a battle between me and you, this learning about what happened then and pray it never happens again.

reply to post by Hot_Wings


The Colonists wouldn't have survived the first winter without help from the Indians. Where are you getting your history? The Sarah Palin School for Unwed Mothers?

You ask me, that is where the Indians made their first mistake. Well, their second mistake. The first was letting any of the Europeans disembark at all. They should have had much stricter immigration laws.

And you should write your own history books.
You are pretty creative and seem to have a knack for manufacturing stories. None of them are close to the truth but, what the heck...Does the truth really matter anyway? Apparently not.

reply to post by TheForgottenOnes


Wow, "royalty" at between 14-19%. My grandmother was full blooded. Her family disowned her for marring a white man. I have always wished I had been exposed to her culture, that my kids might know it.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
I’m so sick of this high and mighty “people of the earth” crap from anyone who claims to have one ounce of “Indian Blood”. What do you think the Pilgrims had when they came to America, a bunch of generators and computers? No, they had to make their own forts (to protect themselves from the savage Indians) and they made their own houses, farms, plows, and even ships. They didn’t have it any easier than the Indians did, they just were a hell of a lot smarter about using their brains to invent the tools that they needed to prosper.

No, smarter has nothing to do with it; the white Europeans who invaded Turtle Island, what we call North America, were technologically more advanced. The First Nations or the People of Turtle Island lived in harmony with nature. They did not rape and pillage Mother Earth each chance they got, like the white European invaders. Yes, the pilgrims had it as hard as the Native Americans, that's why out on the frontier you had friendships develop between white settlers and Native Americans. And no, the People of Turtle Island were not savages. That's a nice label the more advanced, scientifically and technologically, society put on them to have an excuse to exterminate them.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
Not all Indians lived in Tepee’s, just the ones who followed the herds around the plains. In the book Guns, Germs, and Steel the author explains that innovation occurs in all societies in response to demands and supplies. The Egyptians used papyrus for writing because they didn’t have many trees. The Island natives ate fish and were better sailors due to a lack of arable land. The plains Indians lived in portable tepee’s because they followed the ever moving herds of buffalo across the plains.

Ok, no disagreement there. Until the US government wanted to build a railroad and the buffalo's and the natives who hunted them were in the way. Then they butchered the buffaloes, taking only the pelt and sometimes the tongue, by the thousands. The natives would never do that; because they had learned to live from the buffaloes. Did you know that after processing one such huge animal absolutely no garbage was left, because everything was recycled: the bones became tools and arrow points etc., the pelt for clothing, blankets and for the tipis etc.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
There is nothing noble about not being innovative enough to create better tools to do the jobs at hand. In fact, it was their savage, constant murdering of their neighboring Indian tribes is the precise reason that they never developed greater technologies. Being constantly on the move and constantly defending themselves from their neighbors placed severe limits on technological innovation. As well, religious ideologies also limit innovation as referenced in many societies once the dominant religion changes (example Islam gaining dominance in the birthplace of Algebra.

That's just rubbish! They already had developed all the tools they needed and were doing just fine, before the supposedly more advanced Europeans invaded their land. No, you just don't want to admit that the natives had found possibly a better way of life. Oh the horror, how can "savage Indians" have a better way life.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
So any plight of the Indians were brought about by their own hand and they are the ones to blame for it. Even today, innovation among Indian tribes lacks because their sleep on the dirt and like it attitude prevents them from creating for themselves better living conditions. The fact that many of these tree hugger Indians today live in brick homes getting their food from the grocery store only proves that technology does not destroy their beliefs. Ones mindset is not dominated by ones living conditions. It is a factor, yes, but history proves that many intelligent persons only grew in their ideologies in response to severe changes in living conditions. Gandhi, Many Catholic Priests and saints, and Nelson Mandela are perfect examples.

Right, blame the victims! :wowriceless! So, it was the Native Americans fault that the whites traded blankets infested with small pox? It was the Native Americans fault, that they were slaughtered in one massacre after another? Get real!

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
So, the evils of technology have done little to destroy Indian beliefs, in fact, one can argue that they have done more to promote them then recently than at any other time in history. So, basically, the pilgrims had it just as tough, were just as tough, and were more benevolent and kind than the Indians were.

I think you have been watching too many Hollywood Westerns. No, they were not more benevolent than the Native Americans. Hell, the pilgrims from the Mayflower would not have survived the first winter, if the natives did not help them out.

Originally posted by Hot_Wings
It was only after many decades and constant Indian attacks that they defended themselves from Indian terrorism by pushing them all the way to the sea. They started the fight with settlers over land that they said that no one even owned, including themselves, and they simply lost the war completely. There is no apology necessary except on the part of the Indians themselves who started the war in the first place and have lied about their own beliefs and philosophies when it suits them including the idea that no Indian owns land and therefore no one can trespass upon their lands. When the Indians apologize for their constant hundreds of years warfare against others, including other Indians, then and only then should anyone apologize to them.

"Indian terrorism", you gotta be kidding me right? Just face it that the whites were the invaders and the natives had every right to defend themselves and the land they hold sacred. Did you know that the Cherokee had assimilated completely into the US society, they had plantations, were rich, had black slaves, like the whites, did. Yet, one day it was decided that all Native Americans should be relocated to what was called back then the "Indian Territory". That's what the trail of tears and the trail of broken promises is all about; treaty after treaty was just declared void, even if it said "for as long as grass grows this shall be Indian territory".

Native Americans have nothing to apologize for; they never attempted genocide. Go fetch some numbers: how many natives were there when the whites arrived and how many were left by 1890? Just face it US government and the white supremacists and "manifest destiny" people taught the world what genocide is and how to exterminate undesirables from society. Deny Ignorance is the motto of this site, but you seem to have embrace ignorance wholeheartedly.

reply to post by ellieN


Everything you spoke of makes a point. That it is hard, but necessary for survival. My grandmother washed laundry for the auto plant workers in her rooming house for pennies during the Great Depression. It was hard, but necessary to feed her family.

I know of one family where the story goes the father as a little boy...used to walk the railroad tracks looking for 1-or 2 PIECES of coal...PIECES. So the family could eat or get warm. They had to choose which....and he walked and walked for miles instead of going to school. He did this every-day.

The ones who know how to survive with little, will survive in the future....

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Thank you for replying to me and being so courteous. Being on ATS has been an eye opener for me and I mean that in a good sense. I have learned more about human behavior on here than I ever have in the public of going about everyday duties all my life. I think people are who they want to be on here and are anonymous to the public. And.. that is a good thing too. This will help many to use this knowledge and "move up the ladder" to being a better person. It has made me realize how very young we are and that we still have so much to learn..a long way to go. Truthfully.. this thread has helped me to see that I am just now beginning my journey upward and I will no doubt stray off. But I am going to try a lot harder to be more tolerant of how people feel.
I guess what I am trying to say is..that our compassion for each other has not developed as fast as our technology has.

reply to post by Hot_Wings

Wow. I feel for you. Such anger. Buy a book or two. The Indians were "savage" and without them, the Pilgrims wouldve starved. Ever heard of the word THANKSGIVING? Look it up, what it was about, and why and how it transpired.

And another thing. You honestly thought the Indians meant the land belonged to no-one? You are absolutely correct..but not how you understood it. The land didnt belong to any-one. How could you miss this? The land belonged to EVERYONE...so...(I see Im gonna have to explain this s-l-o-w-l-y)...NO-ONE could or can own it...it belonged to Mother Earth and provided by the GREAT SPIRIT...so no one took our land...it wasnt ours to begin with. .

I pose to you, we are just as sick and tired of mindless and clueless people that propose they know everything when they exhibit just the opposite. What? Did you watch a movie or something? Opinionated and angry without any basis in fact, history or research shows your lack of potential for any honest conversation.

Go the the library. Its that place with those things called BOOKS. Read a bit. And look up why it is we of Native American blood helped the Pilgrims with our "savage" ways so they could make it on this continent.
Then again...listening to you preach...we all understand now why you are the way you are. The difference is...we accept you that way...whereas...you do not accept us.

Native American (Cherokee), Welsh, Irish, English, Russian, Austrian Heritage flows strong thru my veins...whereas angry and ignorance swells thru yours. Still? We accept you as you are. Now do you understand?

Jump on in supporters...we have to end the hate somewhere.....before they start killing us again.

PEACE

Seems like another religious debate in here. GUESS WHO DIED? THE INDIANS. WHY? THAT'S PART OF LIFE. THINGS CHANGE. DEAL WITH IT.

Anyone can claim land to be theirs, so long as no one takes it from them. If I beat you up, I can own your land if I want. I've earned it. You people also blame the wrong people. Didn't people from Central and South America kill the tribes, just as well? Why not just ask an apology from the whole freaking planet? Most major nations back then were all over the world. China could've tried settling over here.

In life, ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR.

reply to post by ellieN


And to you as well. You speak well, and put intelligent thoughts together. I wish others would speak so, and remove the anger from their statements.

Do you think they even KNOW how they are coming off to people? Its unfortunate. Ill bet there are no mirrors in some of their homes....and there ought to at least be several. Maybe one day, Ms. ellieN, one day......Peace! Thanx!

reply to post by Gnarly

"Anyone can claim land to be theirs, so long as no one takes it from them. If I Ibeat you up, I can own your land...Ive earned it.. You people also blame the wrong people."

Wow! Do you realize what you just said?. Read it back to yourself. V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y. Such idiocy doesnt even deserve a response to someone who lacks the ability to understand.

Oh. and who are "you people"? Never mind. The questions is too hard for you. We understand..thats fine. And this is hardly...hardly a religious topic to argue about...but thats as you see it. We have to consider the source.

Blessings as always to you n all.....

reply to post by mysterioustranger


There was a wise one on here when I first joined ATS that sent me a U2U and he is not on here anymore or I haven't seen any posts from him. I have no idea why he chose to do that. Maybe something I said on a thread somewhere. He said.. "Be very careful what you say on here because it may come back to condemn you one day." I think that could go for a lot of us..myself included. I tend to spout off too...
There is no way at this moment in time that that humanity is going to change.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
reply to post by Gnarly

 

"Anyone can claim land to be theirs, so long as no one takes it from them. If I Ibeat you up, I can own your land...Ive earned it.. You people also blame the wrong people."

Wow! Do you realize what you just said?. Read it back to yourself. V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y. Such idiocy doesnt even deserve a response to someone who lacks the ability to understand.

Oh. and who are "you people"? Never mind. The questions is too hard for you. We understand..thats fine. And this is hardly...hardly a religious topic to argue about...but thats as you see it. We have to consider the source.

Blessings as always to you n all.....

edit on 06-10-2010 by mysterioustranger because: cause

I understand what I said. I stated a very simple fact of life: I must earn what I want. I can not expect to be handed things in life. If I want my nation to prosper, I will do what I see fit. Establish a colony to generate revenue to stimulate the economy? Sure. If my nation needs to survive, I will do what it takes to ensure that happens.

If I want your land, you better be able to fight me back. Otherwise, you're gonna get a big lesson on life. Can't fight back? Aw, so sad. Life doesn't care. People must die.

And for the "you people" I mean you people. The people who are reading this. It's just like saying you guys. Are you that pretentious?

What about the Spirit? You're personifying nature, thus creating a deity.

As long as we are humans, we will continue to fight. Just like lions do for their territory.

Originally posted by PhoenixFire
reply to post by TheForgottenOnes

 

Wow, "royalty" at between 14-19%. My grandmother was full blooded. Her family disowned her for marring a white man. I have always wished I had been exposed to her culture, that my kids might know it.

edit on 4-3-2011 by PhoenixFire because: (no reason given)

by "royalty" I meant that my family came from a very long line of Chiefs and Tribal Council members, everyone on my Reservation knows my last name, so if that's what "royalty" is, then yeah, I guess I am

Basically no truth in this thread at all, why is it continuing?
The indians weren't all love life and happiness, nor are they as innocent as some are trying to portray....but I guess the victim card worked out for the WH, maybe equal success is expected with this drivel.

AZ Senator Albert Hale let his voice be heard and his views known, when he responded to a question addressing illegal immigration at a press conference at the Arizona State Capitol February 22.

Hale is the formor President of the Navajo Nation...

Hale was asked, “what is the position of the Indian nations, indigenous sovereignty of the territories related to the legislation's on illegal immigration?”

His response received a round of applause when he stated, “we understand immigration from a different perspective. We have been subjected to immigration that’s been undocumented since day one, since 1492.”

SO there's your answer all you none Native's better start carrying your green cards (would'nt that be Red card???) or we'll kick you out...

Originally posted by Gnarly
I understand what I said. I stated a very simple fact of life: I must earn what I want. I can not expect to be handed things in life. If I want my nation to prosper, I will do what I see fit. Establish a colony to generate revenue to stimulate the economy? Sure. If my nation needs to survive, I will do what it takes to ensure that happens.

If I want your land, you better be able to fight me back. Otherwise, you're gonna get a big lesson on life. Can't fight back? Aw, so sad. Life doesn't care. People must die.

And for the "you people" I mean you people. The people who are reading this. It's just like saying you guys. Are you that pretentious?

What about the Spirit? You're personifying nature, thus creating a deity.

As long as we are humans, we will continue to fight. Just like lions do for their territory.

How long do you think the earth can bear this burden of Man fighting for her resources? With the weapons Man possesses today, he could destroy all of creation in the blink of an eye. For what? For things that do not belong to him anyway? Don't you realise how temporary you are?

People must die because Man has decreed it so. We could be developing technologies to prolong our life and sharing this knowledge with all so that we could explore the stars, but instead we fight with the gifts that we are given.

Spoiled children are we. We have forgotten the father, the giver of these gifts, and the mother, earth, who never ceases to yield up her bounty. If you think this creation was made just so Man could destroy it you are sadly mistaken.

Mankind is just learning to submit to God's will. Love one another.

With Love,

Your Brother