Why hasn't the US made a formal apology to the Native Americans?

reply to post by superman2012


Your question is "why haven't they..." and the answer is obvious. Manifest Destiny. They actually believed that the US was symbolic Israel, that white people were symbolically the chosen people, and in the name of God, they annihilated everyone in their way. For that reason alone, I welcome God's coming judgement against this illuminati/masonic experiment called the USA. Add all of the other sins, (have you ever heard of the School of the Americas?) and you may understand why this nation is on its way down. The worst part of all is that it was done in God's name. I don't think He's happy about that. I say, bring it down, Lord. Let all of those yuppies who sat silent as we bombed the living daylights out of innocent women and children have a taste of the fruits of their silence!!!!!!!

Originally posted by IAMIAM


How long do you think the earth can bear this burden of Man fighting for her resources? With the weapons Man possesses today, he could destroy all of creation in the blink of an eye. For what? For things that do not belong to him anyway? Don't you realise how temporary you are?

People must die because Man has decreed it so. We could be developing technologies to prolong our life and sharing this knowledge with all so that we could explore the stars, but instead we fight with the gifts that we are given.

Spoiled children are we. We have forgotten the father, the giver of these gifts, and the mother, earth, who never ceases to yield up her bounty. If you think this creation was made just so Man could destroy it you are sadly mistaken.

Mankind is just learning to submit to God's will. Love one another.

With Love,

Your Brother

I know how short my life is compared to that of Earth's existence. I realize that, to me, my life is the most important thing. As for things belonging to someone: If someone says that something is theirs', and you can't take it away, guess what? They can say so.

People must die because livings things must die. To have a beginning and end. That's the cycle of life. We could prolong our years, but we still have to die one day. FACT OF LIFE.

Also, not everyone sees things your way. There is no father or mother. I think Earth was made because of the Sun existing. Without that, we wouldn't be here. No gravitational pull to keep the rocks together that formed into a ball.

To me, there is no god. Just learning to submit to a gods will, LOL. What religion do you follow, and which book, specifically, because there's so many versions of different books, do you read?

Originally posted by hollyavila
reply to post by superman2012

 

Your question is "why haven't they..." and the answer is obvious. Manifest Destiny. They actually believed that the US was symbolic Israel, that white people were symbolically the chosen people, and in the name of God, they annihilated everyone in their way. For that reason alone, I welcome God's coming judgement against this illuminati/masonic experiment called the USA. Add all of the other sins, (have you ever heard of the School of the Americas?) and you may understand why this nation is on its way down. The worst part of all is that it was done in God's name. I don't think He's happy about that. I say, bring it down, Lord. Let all of those yuppies who sat silent as we bombed the living daylights out of innocent women and children have a taste of the fruits of their silence!!!!!!!

Sorry I posted quite a bit on here, and I don't know what you are referencing.

Originally posted by Gnarly
Seems like another religious debate in here. GUESS WHO DIED? THE INDIANS. WHY? THAT'S PART OF LIFE. THINGS CHANGE. DEAL WITH IT.

No, it is a political debate, since the demand for an apology is a political demand. And please, don't shout at us, we are not deaf, you know. Apart, from that, your answer seems to be motivated by Social Darwinism (which ultimately gave raise to fascism). You know, survival of the fittest and all that. So, to you a genocide is part of life and happens every day, right?

Originally posted by Gnarly
Anyone can claim land to be theirs, so long as no one takes it from them. If I beat you up, I can own your land if I want. I've earned it.

See, above my comment about Social Darwinism. Is it OK then, if I beat you up and rob you of all your possessions? Is that the society you want to live in? One where the stronger dictates everything to the weaker ones?

Originally posted by Gnarly
You people also blame the wrong people. Didn't people from Central and South America kill the tribes, just as well? Why not just ask an apology from the whole freaking planet? Most major nations back then were all over the world. China could've tried settling over here.

Yes, Europeans all of them. It began with the Spanish and Portuguese and it was continued by the Anglo-Saxons in North America. Yes, the Spanish and Portuguese governments should also apologize. No argument there, but we are talking about Native Americans in the US in this thread, so no we are not blaming the wrong people. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Gnarly
In life, ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR.

To an amoral person, yes. But to civilized people with morals there are rules both to love and war.

Originally posted by WalterRatlos

Originally posted by Gnarly
Seems like another religious debate in here. GUESS WHO DIED? THE INDIANS. WHY? THAT'S PART OF LIFE. THINGS CHANGE. DEAL WITH IT.

No, it is a political debate, since the demand for an apology is a political demand. And please, don't shout at us, we are not deaf, you know. Apart, from that, your answer seems to be motivated by Social Darwinism (which ultimately gave raise to fascism). You know, survival of the fittest and all that. So, to you a genocide is part of life and happens every day, right?

Originally posted by Gnarly
Anyone can claim land to be theirs, so long as no one takes it from them. If I beat you up, I can own your land if I want. I've earned it.

See, above my comment about Social Darwinism. Is it OK then, if I beat you up and rob you of all your possessions? Is that the society you want to live in? One where the stronger dictates everything to the weaker ones?

Originally posted by Gnarly
You people also blame the wrong people. Didn't people from Central and South America kill the tribes, just as well? Why not just ask an apology from the whole freaking planet? Most major nations back then were all over the world. China could've tried settling over here.

Yes, Europeans all of them. It began with the Spanish and Portuguese and it was continued by the Anglo-Saxons in North America. Yes, the Spanish and Portuguese governments should also apologize. No argument there, but we are talking about Native Americans in the US in this thread, so no we are not blaming the wrong people. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Gnarly
In life, ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR.

To an amoral person, yes. But to civilized people with morals there are rules both to love and war.

edit on 5/3/2011 by WalterRatlos because: grammar and spelling and syntax

I wish people would read all the comments on this thread....oh well.

The subject matter has been apologized for, by the US and Canada...we have been talking about whether that is enough for the last...24 pages.

Canada Apology

Catholic Church Apology

U.S. Apology

Originally posted by superman2012
I wish people would read all the comments on this thread....oh well.

Sorry, but that is just in the nature of the beast. Fast moving threads with many replies, nope, I won't wade through tons of pages, just in case I missed something.

Originally posted by superman2012
The subject matter has been apologized for, by the US and Canada...we have been talking about whether that is enough for the last...24 pages.

Canada Apology

Catholic Church Apology

U.S. Apology

Ok, cool, I didn't know that. For me, yes, it is enough of an apology. Case closed.

I've read of lot of nonsense in this thread about the "technological superiority" of the Euros that fails to take into account the fact that there are different fields of technology. Their superiority lay only in the technology of war and the ruthlessness with which they waged it.

The focus of the nations in the Americas was on sociological and agricultural technologies. True democracy was invented by the Haudenosaunee, and imperfectly copied by Americans, who couldn't bring themselves to accept women as equals for another two centuries. The Greek form of "democracy" was not democracy at all, but rather a patriarchy. If the roots of American democracy were truly Greek, why didn't true democracy emerge in Europe?

www.iroquoisdemocracy.pdx.edu...

Sociologically, North America was far in advance of the Euros. One aspect of the superiority is the disparity in standards of cleaniness between the cultures: Euros were literally filthy, stinking savages who rarely bathed. Their unclean habits brought wave after wave of epidemics. Another aspect is illuminated by the different degrees of tolerance for psychopaths: in Native societies they were rarely elevated to the positions of power they filled throughout the European system.

"Hints" is a trilogy, presented as SPAP Reports Nos. 3, 4, & 5. Part One described the Native trade-wars; Part Three will consider the European usurpation of Native independence. Here in Part Two disease is discussed. Together, these three calamities form an intertwined triple threat against the Native Americans in the Gulf of Maine region. Unfortunately we lack specific details of inland affairs in this early period of "The Encounter" (as Red/White interactions are collectively termed). The view from the coast gives only hints of the hinterland surrounding the Sebago Lake drainage basin.

With no immunities to Old World diseases, Native Americans were totally vulnerable to contagion from encounters with any Europeans sick with anything. During 1617-18 a major European-disease epidemic struck the Native peoples from Cape Cod Bay to Penobscot Bay, killing off entire communities in some places. How or where this epidemic began is uncertain; sick fishermen off-shore seem likely. There were only a few Europeans actually residing in the area at the time, temporarily manning fishing-stations, or still exploring preparatory to attempting yet other colonial settlements that really would last (earlier attempts having failed).

The few Englishmen who commented about the epidemic from either their own or their workmen's experiences of it tell of vacant villages, unburied dead, and "plague sores". English explorer Captain John Smith blamed the victims, in doggerel: "They say this plague upon them thus sore fell, / It was because they pleas'd not Tantum well." (Tantum or Tanto supposedly was the southern New England Algonquian peoples' negative "god" of woe.) Indeed, only the natives were stricken; the few English who were living with or nearby the natives did not sicken.

And so, in 1620, King James I of England's "Great Patent (charter) of New England"--the land-lease for the Plymouth Colony Pilgrims--declared that God had killed-off the Indians to make way for large-scale English colonization, which started immediately, continued with Mass. Bay Colony Puritans, and never stopped thereafter, pushing ever-more-northeasterly into Maine.

This was not the first epidemic--Micmac chief Membertou had told the French at Port Royal colony (in NS) his remembrances about late-1500s effects of European diseases from the Gulf of St. Lawrence--nor was it the last to strike the Wabanaki peoples. Each deadly wave of disease may have been different from the one before it, because Native Americans lacked relative immunity to all European diseases. However, for our region, the great epidemic of 1617-18 was a defining event, even if modern scholars still are not sure what this disease was. The best-reasoned suggestion I am aware of is hepatitis. This idea is presented in an article titled "New England Pandemic of 1616-1622: Cause and Archeological Implication" by Arthur E Spiess and Bruce D Spiess, in pages 71-83 of Man in the Northeast, Number 34, Fall 1987.

www.lakesregionofmaine.gen.me.us...

Until the coming of the Europeans, the New World was free of smallpox, typhus, cholera, and measles--the focus of this article. When Cortez came to invade Mexico, he had with him a silent ally more potent than his small Spanish army. That insidious ally was infectious disease, to which Aztecs and other Native Americans had no immunity.

When he finally entered Tenochtitlan (Mexico City today) in 1520, the year after he first arrived in the New World, he found half of the inhabitants infected with smallpox. In just the first epidemic, nearly 50% had died. Eleven years later, a second epidemic devastated Mexico, and this too was introduced from Spanish ships. By 1595, over 18 million people had died of smallpox, mumps, measles and other European diseases. (For a further narrative, see Cartwright amongst the resources below.)

www.uic.edu... ean%20Disease%20in%20the%20New%20World.htm

Throughout history the movement of people has played a major role in the transmission of disease. Migration, trade and war have allowed diseases to travel from one environment to another, often with far-reaching social consequences. The devastation of Native American populations, for example, was one such consequence of European settlement in the Americas.

European diseases probably reached Wisconsin before European explorers themselves. In the 50 years following Hernando de Soto's invasion of the lower Mississippi in 1539, disease killed 90 percent of the Indians living in the middle Mississippi Valley — Indians with whom Wisconsin's Oneota culture had traded for centuries. Many archaeologists have thus speculated that epidemics of measles or smallpox may have swept through Indian communities in Wisconsin long before Jean Nicolet stepped ashore in 1634.

When the French arrived and began living in Indian villages in the 17th and 18th centuries, diseases once again broke out. "Maladies wrought among them more devastation than even war did," wrote contemporary French visitor Bacqueville de la Potherie, "and exhalations from the rotting corpses caused great mortality."

Epidemic disease was not confined to Indians, however. Malaria (known at the time as intermittent and remittent fever) was common among French, British, and later American troops, and often reached epidemic proportions in the summer months. Military posts on the Wisconsin frontier in the 1820s and 1830s usually had a hospital and surgeons' quarters, though the service was often poor and inadequate. At Fort Crawford, 154 of the 199 men stationed there in the summer of 1830 had malaria yet, despite its high occurrence, few men actually died. Cholera, on the other hand, was a far more dreaded disease that spread with frightening speed and exacted a far higher death toll on Wisconsin residents.

Smallpox continued to rage through many Indian communities in the 1830s. Introduced by white explorers in 1760, smallpox epidemics repeatedly decimated Indian tribes. Surgeon and naturalist Dr. Douglass Houghton administered more than 2,000 vaccinations to Indians in the Chippewa region over the course of his two months exploring with Henry Schoolcraft in 1832, undoubtedly saving many Indian lives. Houghton estimated that the disease had appeared among the Chippewa at least five times in the previous 60 years.

www.wisconsinhistory.org...

De Soto's excursion to Florida was a failure from the point of view of the Spanish. They acquired neither gold nor prosperity and founded no colonies. Nonetheless, it had several major consequences.

On one hand, the expedition left its traces in the areas they traveled through. Some of the swine brought by de Soto escaped and were the ancestors of razorback pigs in the southeastern United States. De Soto was instrumental in contributing to a hostile relationship between some Natives and Europeans.

When his expedition encountered hostile Natives in the new lands, more times than not, his men instigated the clashes.

More devastating than the battles, however, were the diseases carried by the members of the expedition. Because they lacked immunity to Eurasian diseases, the indigenous people suffered epidemic illnesses after contracting infectious diseases, such as measles, smallpox and chicken pox. Several areas which the expedition crossed became depopulated by disease caused by contact with the Europeans. Many natives fled the populated areas which had been struck by the illnesses and went towards the surrounding hills and swamps. In some areas, the social structure changed because of losses to epidemics.

The records of the expedition contributed greatly to European knowledge about the geography, biology and ethnology of the New World. The de Soto expedition's descriptions of North American natives are the earliest-known source of information about the societies in the Southeast. They are the only European description of North American native habits before the natives encountered other Europeans. De Soto's men were both the first and nearly last Europeans to experience the Mississippian culture.

De Soto's expedition led the Spanish crown to reconsider Spain's attitude towards the colonies north of Mexico. He claimed large parts of North America for Spain. The Spanish concentrated their missions in the state of Florida and along the Pacific coast.

en.wikipedia.org...

The book is brimming with shocking information like the fact that the city of Tiwanaku, in what is now Bolivia, had 115,000 people living in it in 1000 A.D., a population that Paris would not reach for five centuries. Among other surprises we learn that Pocahontas means "little hellion" and there are less people living in the Amazon now than there were in 1491. Mann points out that the British and French, not the indigenous people, were the savages. The Europeans arriving in North America smelled horrible; some of them had never taken a bath their whole lives. On the other hand, the indigenous people were generally very clean, strong and well nourished. The first section of the book deals largely with new revelations about the sicknesses such as small pox and Hepatitis A which ravaged the native populations of the Americas shortly after the arrival of the Europeans. The death toll is as surprising as the size of the populations before Columbus. When Columbus landed, there were an estimated 25 million people living in Mexico. At the time, there were only 10 million people in Spain and Portugal. Central Mexico was more densely populated than China or India when Columbus arrived. An estimated 90-112 million lived in the Americas, which was a larger population than that of Europe. Mann also pointed out that the Incas ruled the biggest empire on earth ever. In their prime, the kingdom's span equaled the distance between St. Petersburg and Cairo.

The bloodshed unleashed by the Europeans had a lot do with killing off of these populations. Yet sickness played perhaps an even larger role. Smallpox hit the Andes before Spain's Pizarro did, killing off most people and plunging the area into civil war. The sickness is thought to have arrived to the region from the Caribbean. Hepatitis A killed off an estimated 90% of the population in coastal New England in 3 years. Within first years of European contact, 95% of native populations died. These numbers seem hard to believe, but Mann's exhausting research draws from decades of investigations from dozens of scientists and archeologists.

While reading this book, I realized how inaccurate it is to describe the Americas as the "New World." Nothing could be further from the truth. The Americas were inhabited by people 20-30,0000 years ago. Europe, on the other hand, was occupied by humans more recently, 18,000 years ago at the most.

upsidedownworld.org... nternational-archives-60/320-1491-the-truth-about-the-americas-before-columbus

When the Europeans arrived they described the Eastern woodlands as park-like, managed to maximize the productivity of the forest.The primitive European forestry and agricultural practices devastated the lands reducing the output to such an extent that it never recovered until the middle of the last century. Mexico still hasn't recovered to Pre-Columbina levels. The population explosion of the 16th through 19th centuries in Europe was fueled by just a few of the myriad of food plants develpoed by Native agronomists. Those who think the American continents as having smaller populations than Europe at Contact would do well to ponder the implications of that fact.

Recently, city after city, town after town is being uncovered by satellitte photography in Bolivia, and some scholars are seeing evidence that the entire Amzon basin was terraformed by A huge civilization centuries before contat...destroyed utterly by European diseases long before they could reach them, and lost to history until just recently.


That illustrates one of the problems of Native history: the Americans and Canadians have little stomach to discover how much was destroyed, how high the civilizations were that their ancestors annihlated to make room for their descendants. Research languishes, especially that which contradicts the mythology, which is pretty much everything.

The average American or Canadian knows so little of the Pre-Columbian history of the Americas as to be effectively zero.

The ignorance is overwhelming.

But they will vociferously declare their superiority over that which they know nothing.

Amazing....baffling, but amazing.

edit on 5-3-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)

reply to post by apacheman


Would it matter if the Europeans came over and wiped out all the Indians!? Then what would they apologize for? and to whom? Yes, they were better equipped for war, shelter, transportation, etc., and I don't think anyone was denying they were a dirty little bunch and caused diseases that were not known to the Indians. Btw, ignorance is both ways, and unless you lived through it, you might as well believe the bible.

ps- never said I believed I was superior, just saying that I want Equality.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Thank you my brother. Im beginning to see more anger and animosity and accusations here than love, kindness and understanding.

You and I both know the reality. It is their journey to find the same. Within-without and all is love. Its too bad many try to bring the spirit down.

Again, you and I know the course...and will continue trying to reach those here who do not. It is my destiny, and yours as well....we cannot change the world...but we can hopefully mend it a bit...

Peace IAMIAM-

MS

reply to post by Gnarly

"What about the Spirit? You're personifying nature, thus creating a deity."

Interesting you say that. I (we-us-you-people) are not personifying anything, nor creating a deity. The "deity" already exists. That is the point. You cannot create or personify the Creator. Our point is that very thing that you are making a generalization of. We are little next to the Creator-God-Great-Spirit, and we accept it as such. So as we see why you-see it...we differ immensely in our observations.

There are still many problems with your line of thought, and those of todays "common-man" (and yes, we are all common-men). We only live and breathe what we all were given whether white, red, black or yellow. It is mine and yours equally. Understand?

We certainly understand your point, but you need to understand ours. We need not fight or die for it. One day, it will be so. We, like you, believe we all have equal rights to life...and death. No one can own the sky, the trees, lakes or mountains.

One day...sometime, somewhere...you as we will assume our place as pieces of the "whole" or "God" or "Great Spirit" as like many small atoms making one whole. I do understand your point as it is of this world now as it is...though we have never looked at it that way. The Native American never refers to the "now' ...only to the "as-is-and-always-was" of the gifts given to us all.

As long as man fights and kills for that which is already his....the precepts will never change. And we understand that. And hope that you do as well....

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Thank you my brother. Im beginning to see more anger and animosity and accusations here than love, kindness and understanding.

You and I both know the reality. It is their journey to find the same. Within-without and all is love. Its too bad many try to bring the spirit down.

Again, you and I know the course...and will continue trying to reach those here who do not. It is my destiny, and yours as well....we cannot change the world...but we can hopefully mend it a bit...

Peace IAMIAM-

MS

Hang on for the ride my friend. I have a feeling anger and animosity are about to get a bit more heated in our world as it drifts further from understanding. Harsh times have a tendency to cement people in their positions. Fear paralyses leaving one unable to move.

I received a strange message in a dream last night. I do not speak of my dreams to others, but this bit rattled my nerves a bit and is probably the most profound insight I had ever received from a dream. Perhaps you will find the message of use.

I will forgo the whole scenery of the dreamscape, as it is only relative to my understanding. Here is the the final line from the voice within.

"Knowing who you follow is not near as important as knowing who you lead. You must decide who you will lead."

As you seem to be aware, perhaps that is advice you will find of value.

Personally, I found the advice to be somewhat unsettling, and will take some time off line to contemplate it.

Be well my friend!

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Thank you. I too have been having dreams of homes and houses( these represent self) that cannot be locked or are in need of repair. These too...Im am in contemplation over.

Your dream seems to imply that GOD, Budda, Mohammed, Jesus, Krishna, Yahwe etc....whomever...as long as it is the GOD-HEAD we follow...it is more important to bring others to the fold.

The Supreme Being-being relevant...goes by many different names, and it matters more whom we lead to it...since we are already believers in Higher Power.

I will tell you this my friend...I feel my own personal time in this life may be short, so Im trying to better understand if Ive made any difference while here. I'd like to think I have, and others will swear I have done so...but while I still have some time, I'd like to know for sure.

Perhaps this comment is my own way of verifying in the end...of my place here. I will continue while I can, wherever I can, to make a difference and enlighten people. Im a bit depressed now at those Ive lost recently, and I am trying to justify going on.

I guess Ive just answered my own question...because I am still here. Pray for mankind my brother...and I, you.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Thank you. I too have been having dreams of homes and houses( these represent self) that cannot be locked or are in need of repair. These too...Im am in contemplation over.

Interesting, I never mentioned anything about homes or houses in my dream, yet it fits...

Allow me to elaborate...

In this dream I was in someone elses house. They did not notice me there, never knew I was present. It was a very well kept house with plenty of light flowing in through the windows. In this house lived an old couple, I'd say they were in their late 50's early 60's by the look of them. Their hair was silvery white and by their clothes, I'd say they were fairly well off. While I was in their house, they spent all their time reading ancient manuscripts together. This seemed to be their only occupation and they loved it. They would read through them together and take great joy when ever they spotted something they never saw or understood before.

I sat in their living room on a couch with a window to my back watching them in their efforts. Every now and then I would peek out the window and see a little white dog, like a Maltese. Some how I knew the dog belonged to them, so I would go out and bring the dog into the house so it would not get hurt. Each time I would tell them to take care of the dog because it keeps getting out. They would never even acknowledge my presence. They just kept on pouring over their documents.

One last time I looked out the window and there was an elderly gentleman standing at the door holding the dog. I opened the door. He had a scowl on his face as if he was fed up with something. I said hello, but just as quick as I could get the words out he brushed me aside and barged into the house. He made his way to the kitchen with the dog in hand and began to scold the couple. He told them their dog kept getting loose and that they needed to love and care for the dog. He was concerned about the dog and did not want it to be injured. He was quite a bit more forceful than I ever was when I gave the same admonition. However, he was not noticed either. The couple kept on pouring over their documents, never looking up.

He came back to the door and gave me a very stern look in the eye. He thrust the dog into my hands and said, "Knowing who you follow is not near as important as knowing who you lead. You must decide who you will lead."

With that he left the area, I turned and looked at the couple, then I looked down at the little dog. I stepped out into the warm sun and closed the door behind me, taking their little dog with me.

Perhaps this dream will clarify the issues you are having with the houses in your own dreams??

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
I will tell you this my friend...I feel my own personal time in this life may be short, so Im trying to better understand if Ive made any difference while here. I'd like to think I have, and others will swear I have done so...but while I still have some time, I'd like to know for sure.

You have cared for other people's dogs while they were not paying attention to them. You have made a difference and will continue to do so.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Perhaps this comment is my own way of verifying in the end...of my place here. I will continue while I can, wherever I can, to make a difference and enlighten people. Im a bit depressed now at those Ive lost recently, and I am trying to justify going on.

That which is lost will be found again my friend. The justification for going on is the search.

Originally posted by mysterioustrangerPray for mankind my brother...and I, you.

See, you have made a difference yet again. In this one simple exchange you have helped me to understand the errors of my ways. Through you, I have learned that it isn't wise to return a stray dog to an uncaring owner. Such a dog is mine to care for.

Thank you once again for a very insightful exchange.

With Love,

Your Brother

Great topic. My grandfather was in the battle of the second Wounded Knee. I think that the Native Americans in this country definatly deserve some sort of formal apology from the government.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Thank you. I know that a small breath each day stokes a fire, while some are always trying to toss a bucket of water on it. That is the course I take and follow. Each day, I try and stoke the flame just a little, and warm a few souls along the way.

Perhaps that is my real destiny...Your dream is interesting in that it represents homes/houses-all versions of self...and the people in them....are dimensions of you as well. The person at the door is a conflict...bringing something(dog?) for you to care for or deal with...and much more as I see it.

I will have to read through your dream to further understand it. But as transcendentalist (meditation) and a Projectionist (astral), I come from a long family line of psychics, preachers and shamans...of which I dont discuss much with anyone...I have a "sight" into things that others do not. Call it an ability, a talent...or curse...I prefer to thing of it as a gift.

So, with that in mind, Ill give the dream a bit to try and interpret it...but may I pose to you this? I propose to you that you already have the answers and definitions and meaning of this dream, because I "see" you with the understanding of it...and this you know as well, and what it means.

On now to stoke the flames further today.............................................

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
So, with that in mind, Ill give the dream a bit to try and interpret it...but may I pose to you this? I propose to you that you already have the answers and definitions and meaning of this dream, because I "see" you with the understanding of it...and this you know as well, and what it means.

Absolutely my friend. It has long been a habit of mine to give pause to meaningful dreams and to understand what I am telling myself. My dreams are my domain and it is exceedingly rare where another aspect of myself gets to come in and tell me anything, in the way that the elderly gentleman did. When this happens, it is usually because what I feel is correct is way off course and my higher conciousness, my father, God, what ever you wish to call it, must come in and steer me straight.

Subconsciousness, Consciousness, Super-conciousness
Id, Ego, Super-ego
Holy Ghost, Son, Father

What ever one calls it, it remains the same.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Hot_Wings



You're not as bright or as well informed as you believe yourself to be. The native peoples were the ones who taught the Pilgrims how to take care of themselves thru tough times. They taught the Pilgrims how to hunt the indigenous game and preserve it thru tough times, how to grow thier own vegetables and what was good or not good to eat. The history books paint a totally different picture when it came to Thanksgiving as well. The natives provided much food for the celebration but weren't even invited or thanked for their efforts. As for who were the smarter ones? Well, that's obvious. Without the Native's help, your uneducated Pilgrims would have just died off. Too bad they didn't because if they had, pro-nazi idealistic morons like yourself wouldn't be here either. The Native people's also gave them the basic structure for today's American Government. These were a people who were able to feed themselves, govern themselves, and raise their children with proper moral and spiritual ideas They survived thousands of years undisturbed before the greedy Europeans showed up on their door step begging for a hand-out. They were kind, gracious and selfless. Your "homeless disease ridden whiteman" took advantage of a good natured people and exploited/exterminated them for their own greedy means.

reply to post by hollyavila


You obviously hate the USA and want to die, which is fine with me, but who the hell are you to decree that all life in the USA should be snuffed out, all because you think so?

Do you really believe that killing everyone you know, everyone you have loved, everyone who has loved you, is the proper atonement for atrocities committed by people before you were ever even born? Who the hell made you judge, jury, and executioner of us all?

This is a quote from ONE OF YOUR OWN POSTS:
"True love for the self is love for everyone. We are all pieces of each other....I am you as you are me as you are we and we are all together."

What happened in your life to switch your gears from "we are all one" and "love one another" to I WELCOME GOD TO SMITE US ALL?

Like I said, if you are so filled with hate that you cannot stand your world any longer and want to die, then that is your right, but I will be damned if you will lump the rest of us into your emo rage-quit of life.

I am sorry for bad things that were done in the past by bad people, but I am not going to personally apologize, nor be held responsible, for I have done nothing (yet you wish me and my family dead along wit the rest of the country).

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
I'll keep this short and sweet (it's my first thread made)
au.answers.yahoo.com... this is the best quote i could find to answer this...sorry its a yahoo answer

It wasn't till after WW1 when we were "considered" citizens. It wasn't till after WW2 when we had voting rights, in the 1960's and 70's they sterilized 25% of ALL native american women between the ages of 15 to 40. And before the 1970's it was illegal to practice our ceremonies, and speak our languages.

So no, we've never got an apology (obviously we deserve it), and we don't ask for reparations. What I know many want is just for the Americans to one day say "yep, we commit ed a genocide, we ****** up, we're sorry" but I doubt it will ever come.

Coarse American sttitude towards us still hasn't changed much. As you can see, some obviously think that their ways are better, and that we should just drop everything and "assimilate". Well, no; I'm sorry but I like where I am, and if you don't like that then **** off. Simply put. Besides, I've already lived in other parts of the country, so I've seen enough.



I have heard of apologies in the works but have yet to hear something definate

Hell it sucks that your ancestors went through all that. But I didn't do it. Even though it may seem we live in modern times, this genocidal campaign has been done many times throughout history and will most likely happen again. Survival of the fittest and such. Anyways, I doubt the apology will never come, what would they (and by they I mean government) have to be sorry for? The actions of their grandparents or grandparents grandparents? I will never apologize for something I didn't cause myself.

We can't change the past, we can think of ways we wish we could change the past; we can wax poetic upon the past, dwell upon it, rage against it, mourn it and cry upon it. Nothing we do now changes the past. There are those who devote their lives to the writing of history and telling the story to be past on to generations. Part of the lesson is to learn from the past and move on from it, without forgetting it. Learn from it and do better. Do words of apology help? Yes, I believe they can. Hopefully those words can erase the pain, but it's up to the individual to accept the apology. Forgiveness and letting go is something that must come from within our hearts.