Jared Loughner the alleged Tucson shooter - So many questions - so few answers .

reply to post by Doomzilla


reply to post by Doomzilla


I added a comment to my last post directed at you about breaking change for a 20.

As for drugging him up, possibility, his first mugshot sure looks like he's on some kind of psychedelic.

Let's assume for a moment, that Loughner "knows" what he's doing, that he wants people to obsess about him being an MKULTRA agent. So if this were true, and he had an ATS and other social media accounts, why didn't he predict his shooting in a strange manner? He didn't, besides some obscure poem about a parrot that doesn't seem very straightforward. If he wanted to become the news, why not at least make a prediction about his attack? Obscure enough for the police to not stop him yet easy enough for people to see that he really did it. Of course he would also be saying a message to the world at this point, like the terrorist extremists do who are proud of attacking America. So far, Loughner has ZERO political ideological cause to this shooting spree, except for perhaps some sort of vague obsession with Giffords. No definite reason for hating her, no definite party affiliation, no definite motive for the attacks on indiscriminate bystanders. The only logical motive is MKULTRA. Even psychological insanity doesn't make sense because he would plead insanity and not innocent.

reply to post by filosophia


Yes the change for 20 is suspicious for sure , I mean he didn't try to escape once he'd shot his so called TARGET did he , he "just kept firing at the crowd "

In your new thread , someone claims to be from Tuscon _ I ve asked him some questions but he hasnt replied yet .

Did you hear about "Jareds friend " who was on twitter ?

Originally posted by filosophia
What is more plausible

1. Loughner is proud of his murdering spree, which is why he is smiling, even though he is pleading not guilty in trial twice

2. Loughner is proud of his murdering spree, and even more proud of messing with the minds of the judge and jury by pleading not guilty to a crime he is proud of committing. You gotta stay humorous somehow, what better way than to just **** with the system.

3. Loughner is not Loughner but a double and the double keeps "smiling" because that is the only distinguishable trademark from our elusive lone gunner. They can't even get the hair right so might as well just paste a smile on the double's face so people will say "yep, that's the weirdo alright."

Why did you not list the other option:
4. Loughner is simply bat-poop crazy, and that's why he's smiling.

As to the "not guilty" plea, any lawyer worth his salt would have him plead that way.

The fact that you don't even list that as a possibility causes me to think you're simply trying to twist facts to fit your conspiracy theory.

reply to post by subject x


He is entitled to his opinion as are you the only difference is he is going by research and you are going by gut instinct only .

Every assumption you have made on this thread as of yet is not backed by proof so how can you be sure of anything ?

You take exception to the smallest detail but miss the bigger picture .

Originally posted by Doomzilla
He is entitled to his opinion as are you the only difference is he is going by research and you are going by gut instinct only .

Of course he's entitled to his opinion, as am I. I've read all the research posted here, I just draw different conclusions.

Every assumption you have made on this thread as of yet is not backed by proof so how can you be sure of anything ?

I could say the same thing.

You take exception to the smallest detail but miss the bigger picture .

I think y'all are getting bogged down in pointless details and creating your own "bigger picture".
He's nuts, he went out and shot people. It's that simple.

As we obviously aren't going to agree here, I'll bow out now so as to not clog up the thread with my disbelief.
If it turns out that there's a conspiracy here, I'll come back and post a nice apology for ever doubting.

reply to post by subject x


You dont have to go anywhere you have a right to be here if you wish .


" If it turns out that there's a conspiracy here, I'll come back and post a nice apology for ever doubting. "

Yes and if the opposite occurs I will do the same as I have previously stated .

I didnt think this case would intrigue me this long I thought theyd release proof to shut the few of us who question it up , but the opposite has happened .
As details come out more and more suspicion arises IMO .

We have asked so many questions in this thread and nobody has answered them satisfactorily .

We just have to play the waiting game .

Originally posted by filosophia

The only logical motive is MKULTRA. Even psychological insanity doesn't make sense because he would plead insanity and not innocent.

the insane cannot judge themselves as guilty of being so, otherwise showing them self as knowing right from wrong. It's about being mentally unfit in understanding of charges and innocent until proven to be otherwise.

reply to post by redgy


I know what your saying but they have a confession note .
Right at the start it was said that if he did not speak he would have his videos from his pc used to give him voice .

IF he was insane , then his parents must have known surely with the " evidence " we know about .
Is it wise to keep shotguns and ammo in the garage of a "insane " 22 year old's home .

UPDATE____________________


Interview with one of the court room artist including new sketches .


This part interested me ........


"Her art shows Loughner and his infamous smirk. Keane said for a moment, that smirk turned into a grin when the judge brought up Loughner's YouTube videos.
"He broke out into a big grin and he nodded like he was very proud of having done that and otherwise he sat very still, very stoically and squinted," said Keane.
This is not the first time Keane has sketched Loughner, but it is the first time she's seen him react as much as he did."

So theyre trying to say hes proud of his youtube videos so why didnt he say anything ? why just smile ? Hes infamous now no ?



"The judge said, 'are you Jared Lee Loughner?'  And he said 'yes I am' or something like that."

It would help if they could be more assured lol .



"What's your impression of Loughner's reaction in there?" asked KGUN9 reporter Ileana Diaz. "It's hard to tell if he's reacting to anything specifically because he just kind of sits there and squints at everything," Keane said.


Here are the new sketches note the hair colour .





[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee8ae22131fe.jpg[/atsimg]







[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/30cb94e09943.jpg[/atsimg]




Heres the link

www.kgun9.com...

Originally posted by Doomzilla

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee8ae22131fe.jpg[/atsimg]

Looks like he has blue eyes and not brown eyes like the first mugshot.

As much as this case is interesting on a "conspiracy/MKULTRA" level, it also brings up some key points about how flawed our judicial system is and how secrecy should be thrown out of court cases.

-Search warrants should not be "sealed" and when they are unsealed they should not contain redacted information. What could there be that would harm the case? A search warrant must be open and transparent as the Constitution states what a search warrant must contain, namely the person or thing and the place to be searched. Redactions in a search warrant is secretive and unconstitutional.

-There should be video of court room cases. They are open to the public so why not the media? The O.J. Simpson trial was video taped for all the world to see. More secrecy means more unlawful things could happen. With video or photographic evidence, we wouldn't have these various court drawings that contradict each other.

-The court system should act in a "speedy" manner as defined by the Constitution. If there is video surveillance of the shooting, and a confession letter, what is stopping them? 7 months is not a speedy trial. And I highly doubt that a gas station surveillance video will show anything beyond a reasonable doubt, so all the more reason that the FBI should not confiscate video that would otherwise prove someone committed a crime, the secrecy gives the FBI a chance to alter the video- highly illegal.

-The fear of an impartial jury will always exist, it's not hard to pay off 12 people to vote a certain way. If the trial was open to the public, even if the jury was paid off and voted a certain way, the truth will be seen. Juries can be manipulated even without paying them off; they can pick people who are more prone to capital punishment as opposed to someone who may feel like the system should sympathize rather than execute potentially insane individuals.

reply to post by subject x


There are zero life points for dismissing everything as lunacy.

Stop twisting facts to make it seem that way.

Originally posted by filosophia

Originally posted by Doomzilla

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee8ae22131fe.jpg[/atsimg]

Looks like he has blue eyes and not brown eyes like the first mugshot.

As much as this case is interesting on a "conspiracy/MKULTRA" level, it also brings up some key points about how flawed our judicial system is and how secrecy should be thrown out of court cases.

-Search warrants should not be "sealed" and when they are unsealed they should not contain redacted information. What could there be that would harm the case? A search warrant must be open and transparent as the Constitution states what a search warrant must contain, namely the person or thing and the place to be searched. Redactions in a search warrant is secretive and unconstitutional.

-There should be video of court room cases. They are open to the public so why not the media? The O.J. Simpson trial was video taped for all the world to see. More secrecy means more unlawful things could happen. With video or photographic evidence, we wouldn't have these various court drawings that contradict each other.

-The court system should act in a "speedy" manner as defined by the Constitution. If there is video surveillance of the shooting, and a confession letter, what is stopping them? 7 months is not a speedy trial. And I highly doubt that a gas station surveillance video will show anything beyond a reasonable doubt, so all the more reason that the FBI should not confiscate video that would otherwise prove someone committed a crime, the secrecy gives the FBI a chance to alter the video- highly illegal.

-The fear of an impartial jury will always exist, it's not hard to pay off 12 people to vote a certain way. If the trial was open to the public, even if the jury was paid off and voted a certain way, the truth will be seen. Juries can be manipulated even without paying them off; they can pick people who are more prone to capital punishment as opposed to someone who may feel like the system should sympathize rather than execute potentially insane individuals.

Your correct about the transparancey , like I said they could have shut us up by now .
They only tell us that which backs up the official story and its never proved just told .

Yes why are there no cameras in court ? Or even real photos not just sketches .

The more they hide from us the more it makes be suspicious.


-"The court system should act in a "speedy" manner as defined by the Constitution. If there is video surveillance of the shooting, and a confession letter, what is stopping them? "

Yes I ask this question constantly , in whose interest is to delay the start of the trial till 2013 ?

They have all the evidence they need there should be nothing stopping them from proving him guilty .

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Hi there Getsmart . your right about JFK' s autopsy , surely they are not the same person . In regards to the letter that Christophe has , I too thought it had information regarding the assassination of JFK .
Whats your take on the E Howard Hunt confession .

What do you think about the start of the Loughner case being delayed till 2013 ?

Hi Doomzilla,


Regarding the letter here is a video clip where his lawyer shows the actual the letter itself, sealed and signed by Christian David twice across the seal. He stated that it was not to be opened without his express authorization as long as he was in prison. What seems to come across from that interview is that the letter may have been returned to Christian David upon his release to be kept elsewhere, disposed of (i.e. destroyed) or attached to new instructions - these may be the reason why he is still alive and going about his life.




Respective to the links to the JFK assassination this segment also refers to the Corsican Mob aka the French Connection getting booted out of Cuba and winding up in Montreal, a place today overrun by the Russian Mafiya. We can wonder if there isn't a similar Mob Connection here. JFK's Corsican assassins were reportedly greeted at the Mexican border by a member of the Chicago Mafia who spoke Italian, so this would presumably be a Sicilian Mafia member who was part of their US operations.


What would remain to be determined in the Giffords Shooting and Hit against Judge Roll is whether there wasn't alsl a Mafia connection in addition to the CIA MK Ultra Manchurian Candidate used as a scapegoat? I think Jared is just that, a fall guy for a CIA/Mob hit. We have the Mexican Drug Cartels, who have been constantly battling away with countless murders directly to the South of Tucson, which happens to be the first road nexus for shipping drugs to the rest of North America. Which MOB is involved is anyone's call


A Mexican Cartel who which Commander Amado of PIMA Community College is somehow associated? Another Crime Syndicate, such as the one William Daley, Obama's new Chief of Staff of the notorious Chicago Syndicate DALEY Family with a key role in the "OUTFIT" ? This is the family who has had a stronghold on Mob City Chicago for the past half century. Michele Obama worked 8 years for his brother Richard Daley then Mayor of Chicago, while her husband Barry Soetero was evicting their tenants from flop houses. Is this why there are the ongoing Mexican Cartel Wars? Is the Daley Mob moving in on the Bush/CIA Drug Running? Is that also why they sent the former United States Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel from the White House into the Chicago Town Hall as its new mayor, playing musical chairs with a DALEY? This could explain the hit against Democratic Party associates of those opposing Godfather Bush's total control over the international drug trade. And Rahm Emanuel's new role as Chicago Mayor could outline a deal struck between the Chicago "OUTFIT" and the Mossad to move in against the historic drug running team of the the CIA and the Sicilian Mafia's American "Pizza Connection" ?!?


Regarding E. Howard Hunt's confession, let us remember that he is not a reliable witness. He was as close as you can get to a SPOOK which means that he is a professional liar and traitor. He might be telling the truth but there is no way of relying upon that so I only can accept such testimony as a potential source of leads to investigate but seldom as having any guarantee of trustworthiness unless there is an overwhelming reason to believe otherwise.


And the request for a delay until 2013 for trial could have to do with the Heat being generated by the Buzz on the Internet about the fallacies of the Giffords Shooting and the trumped up case against Jared Loughner. There is a rapidly spreading suspicion which could extend into public opinion, much like the general awareness has grown about the 9/11 attacks. This could have reached the tipping point whereby it becomes counter productive for TPTB to pursue a public trial therefore using a subterfuge, for visible purposes alleged to be motioned by the Defense, to postpone the trial. That way maybe they hope that our adamant pursuit of the truth will either run out of steam or lose any interest among the general public as this becomes old news with nothing of interest forthcoming in the near future?


GS

reply to post by Doomzilla


the "shotgun and ammo" that were never used for purpose in his crime as commited, plays no part to conjecture presented in being unsafe as stored. whether his parents forsaw any waranted behavioral changes or not to their son, who knows, it still doesn't deem him a danger to society before such fact to occur.

If sane, was he just stringing everyone along in a mindgame of various posts and videos made, presented for sole purpose as formulation of premeditated plot to fool the ptb, why all the indiscriminate killing, why no plan of escape, why the "confession" and left behind found evidence, why act the fool in likeness to insanity if he isn't just as likely insane. Does he think he can really beat the system.

Do not Witnesses play a role in evidence, is not their testimony given as first hand account to what went down or who is who. Surely all evidence must point to him being guilty, if not insane as well. Whatever his reasoning, he'll get what is deserved for his kind, something that might just wipe that smile off his face.

Originally posted by Getsmart

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Hi there Getsmart . your right about JFK' s autopsy , surely they are not the same person . In regards to the letter that Christophe has , I too thought it had information regarding the assassination of JFK .
Whats your take on the E Howard Hunt confession .

What do you think about the start of the Loughner case being delayed till 2013 ?

Hi Doomzilla,


Regarding the letter here is a video clip where his lawyer shows the actual the letter itself, sealed and signed by Christian David twice across the seal. He stated that it was not to be opened without his express authorization as long as he was in prison. What seems to come across from that interview is that the letter may have been returned to Christian David upon his release to be kept elsewhere, disposed of (i.e. destroyed) or attached to new instructions - these may be the reason why he is still alive and going about his life.

He was in jail for killing a cop which he denies , he was offered a job to kill JFK but turned it down .

Respective to the links to the JFK assassination this segment also refers to the Corsican Mob aka the French Connection getting booted out of Cuba and winding up in Montreal, a place today overrun by the Russian Mafiya. We can wonder if there isn't a similar Mob Connection here. JFK's Corsican assassins were reportedly greeted at the Mexican border by a member of the Chicago Mafia who spoke Italian, so this would presumably be a Sicilian Mafia member who was part of their US operations.


What would remain to be determined in the Giffords Shooting and Hit against Judge Roll is whether there wasn't alsl a Mafia connection in addition to the CIA MK Ultra Manchurian Candidate used as a scapegoat? I think Jared is just that, a fall guy for a CIA/Mob hit. We have the Mexican Drug Cartels, who have been constantly battling away with countless murders directly to the South of Tucson, which happens to be the first road nexus for shipping drugs to the rest of North America. Which MOB is involved is anyone's call


A Mexican Cartel who which Commander Amado of PIMA Community College is somehow associated? Another Crime Syndicate, such as the one William Daley, Obama's new Chief of Staff of the notorious Chicago Syndicate DALEY Family with a key role in the "OUTFIT" ? This is the family who has had a stronghold on Mob City Chicago for the past half century. Michele Obama worked 8 years for his brother Richard Daley then Mayor of Chicago, while her husband Barry Soetero was evicting their tenants from flop houses. Is this why there are the ongoing Mexican Cartel Wars? Is the Daley Mob moving in on the Bush/CIA Drug Running? Is that also why they sent the former United States Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel from the White House into the Chicago Town Hall as its new mayor, playing musical chairs with a DALEY? This could explain the hit against Democratic Party associates of those opposing Godfather Bush's total control over the international drug trade. And Rahm Emanuel's new role as Chicago Mayor could outline a deal struck between the Chicago "OUTFIT" and the Mossad to move in against the historic drug running team of the the CIA and the Sicilian Mafia's American "Pizza Connection" ?!?


Regarding E. Howard Hunt's confession, let us remember that he is not a reliable witness. He was as close as you can get to a SPOOK which means that he is a professional liar and traitor. He might be telling the truth but there is no way of relying upon that so I only can accept such testimony as a potential source of leads to investigate but seldom as having any guarantee of trustworthiness unless there is an overwhelming reason to believe otherwise.

I understand your caution but as you say , he was behind watergate, was in Dallas the day of the JFK hit and he was in the tramp photo , there is also evidence he may have been part of operation 40 which included a plot to kill Commandante Castro .


And the request for a delay until 2013 for trial could have to do with the Heat being generated by the Buzz on the Internet about the fallacies of the Giffords Shooting and the trumped up case against Jared Loughner. There is a rapidly spreading suspicion which could extend into public opinion, much like the general awareness has grown about the 9/11 attacks. This could have reached the tipping point whereby it becomes counter productive for TPTB to pursue a public trial therefore using a subterfuge, for visible purposes alleged to be motioned by the Defense, to postpone the trial. That way maybe they hope that our adamant pursuit of the truth will either run out of steam or lose any interest among the general public as this becomes old news with nothing of interest forthcoming in the near future?

Yes I think you may be right here . Since 9/11 they know people like us question events hence why they may have planted this "internet persona " of Loughner . There is a chance as we have discussed that all the alleged evidence is planted and that Loughner is just Oswald mark 2 .


GS

Originally posted by subject x

I think y'all are getting bogged down in pointless details and creating your own "bigger picture".
He's nuts, he went out and shot people. It's that simple.

Hi Subject x,


Debunking conspiracy theories is a dangerous occupation in a conspiracy website. But we all take our chances and take our knocks accordingly. I shall try to reply in a congenial tone and hopefully illustrate how your comments might be perceived by others who have their own reasons for believing that possibly Jared is innocent and was framed as a patsy..


I also venture that you're not actually drawing any picture at all although I hope you shall take a moment to disprove this assumption as incorrect.


It sounds as if you have "outsourced" this task of drawing a picture of what actually happened to official sources relayed by the Mainstream Press, which has a proven history of being a tool for whoever exercises editorial power. You are of course free to let some hack journalist peddling propaganda draw the dots and connect them for you. And granted that this may be no worse than letting some crackpot conspiracy theorist with arbitrary convictions and little critical analysis feed you their version of hogwash.


But here we're not imposing a picture on anyone. The very title of the thread states this. We are trying to examine the dots one by one, and find out whether there are any "Potential" connections between them. We are also examining whether the Official Picture presented by those controlling the media remains plausible or even possible when certain of the connected dots are proven to be false.


When you say: "He's nuts, he went out and shot people. It's that simple." this opens the door wide to others who use as little logic. After all, we could do likewise and say similarly: "Subject x is clueless, he went off and believed an official hoax. It's that simple." What stops us from saying that is that even if this appears to be the case, we would have no concrete basis for making such a statement.


It is only an unfounded statement of opinion based upon personal bias without any critical thinking applied, just as your own statement was. For all we know you may have a lot of very good reasons for believing what you said, but simply didn't feel the need to share them with us here. If so please expose your dots and how you connect them as this would possibly enlighten us?


Getsmart

Originally posted by redgy
reply to post by Doomzilla

 

the "shotgun and ammo" that were never used for purpose in his crime as commited, plays no part to conjecture presented in being unsafe as stored. whether his parents forsaw any waranted behavioral changes or not to their son, who knows, it still doesn't deem him a danger to society before such fact to occur.

His parents had Pima county college officers attend their home to tell them their son was barred from college unless he had a medical assessment .
I find it hard to believe that his teachers and friends predicted he'd shoot someone but his parents didnt .


If sane, was he just stringing everyone along in a mindgame of various posts and videos made, presented for sole purpose as formulation of premeditated plot to fool the ptb, why all the indiscriminate killing, why no plan of escape, why the "confession" and left behind found evidence, why act the fool in likeness to insanity if he isn't just as likely insane. Does he think he can really beat the system.

Yes I totally agree IF he is sane the fact that he has confession notes but pleaded not guilty is bewildering to say the least. As is the fact that he shot others than his alleged "target " .

Do not Witnesses play a role in evidence, is not their testimony given as first hand account to what went down or who is who. Surely all evidence must point to him being guilty, if not insane as well. Whatever his reasoning, he'll get what is deserved for his kind, something that might just wipe that smile off his face.



The " evidence " does point to him being guilty but bear in mind we have not seen any evidence whatsoever with our own eyes . We have only their word for it .

Thanks for your response !

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Yes I think you may be right here . Since 9/11 they know people like us question events hence why they may have planted this "internet persona " of Loughner . There is a chance as we have discussed that all the alleged evidence is planted and that Loughner is just Oswald mark 2 .

Hi Doomzilla,


It is difficult to dismiss the troubling similarities with the JFK assassination. This is also a good time to verify if we've learned anything from that event, and the way it was covered up by the FBI, the CIA and the Judicial Court system with Mafia and Police Department complicities. The only conclusions if we assess this as having happened is that those who run the country are criminals or that at minimum a faction of criminals have penetrated most government agencies sufficiently deeply and at high enough levels that it is a hard call as to whether there are rogues within the agencies or whether they are de facto "rogue agencies".


To respond to your observation that "Loughner is just Oswald mark 2" I noticed something disturbingly "Oswaldish" about the latest Court Portrait drawn of him this March. So I copied the drawing, gave it the same tilt and placed it right next to the most famous photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. The result is disturbing.


Lee Harvey Oswald next to Jared Lee Loughner


Feel free to copy this picture and post it elsewhere.


There are, to my mind, only 2 conclusions which I feel comfortable considering to explain this resemblance not so much of physical traits but of the "published image" of a framed criminal. Either Jared is Oswald's secret son with certain traits and behavioral characteristics in common, thus Lee as his middle name, or the same teams who retouched Oswald's mugshot originally to give him that "guilty look" did the same tricks to Jared's court drawing. I find the later hypothesis more likely, given that Jared's sketch had the top of his head chopped, presumably to get us to focus on the facial expression as well as to remove from our view his skull shape which would lessen the 'similarity impact'.


FWIW


Getsmart

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Interview with one of the court room artist including new sketches .

This part interested me .......

Hi Doomzilla,


You might do well to be very suspicious of anything that courtroom artist says. I happen to no longer believe anything he'd/she'd say given how they appear to have actively engaged in the manipulation of his image in the above drawings. Art enables one to emphasize features and add visual characteristics to the "rendering" at will. Words can do very much the same. Just a few 'innocent' comments will get people who weren't there to believe that he's a madman acting creepy. This is not sworn testimony, and if that court artist is a SPOOK then they'd have no qualms about lying under oath, just like Oliver North.


GS

Did you guys know that the congresswoman that was shot had subscribed to Jared Loughner's youtube account before she got shot? She had subscribed to 2 people, another congressman and him.. That really puzzles me