Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails? I think so.

Can someone please give me a definite explanation of a chemtrail?

reply to post by liejunkie01



I think that's what we are all trying to determine. My guess is it could mean different things depending on what is going on.
All I know is that in my neck of the woods, there are days where air traffic seems heavy and persistent contrails are left that develop into cloud cover and I think it's a bit odd.

reply to post by liejunkie01


I would think the following are in the Chemtrail realm of belief,or have been said to some extent to be labeled as one.


1. If you believe that the governments are flying planes and dumping chemicals on its respective citizens,you are a chemtrailer.

2.If you see planes flying,with contrails,and believe or question what you see coming out of said planes,you're a chemtrailer.

3. If you support the theory of a Government coverup,with said planes,crisscrossing the sky,with contrails,without having proof that chemicals are being distributed,you are a chemtrailer.

4. If you have PROOF of Government study's,and secret programs,that have taken place on the citizens of the world,without their knowledge,and are willing to look outside the box on this,you are a chemtrailer.

5. If you question official storys,or question those on ATS that believe they know all,as they profess to do so on a regular basis,you might get labeled a chemtrailer.

6. If you do not call this a HOAX,and agree with those on ATS that do call this a HOAX,you are a chemtrailer.

I think that covers it.

reply to post by liejunkie01

I am not being dumb here but, I see so many people talking about different ideas for chemtrails. Can someone please give me a definite explanation of a chemtrail? if not definite, what is the accepted definition? I only want to clarify what exactly are we debating here.

I would say a Chemtrail is something that appears to be a contrail but is not..
It is disguised as a contrail...
What it's purpose is in unclear...

BTW, I'm not sure there are Chemtrails but that's how I see them defined..

reply to post by dplum517


I've never understood this whole chemtrail nonsense. One of my favorite things to do as a child was to look up into the sky and watch contrails. There was always dozens of them...sometimes the sky was full of them. Its one of my fondest memories. I didn't live anywhere close to an airport.....its just the way the sky looked in a medium to small town. When I look up in the sky today....I see....the EXACT same thing. I see nothing different. A lot of contrails....just like when I was a kid. Sometimes they would hang in the sky for hours....sometimes minutes...Now unless you believe that the 'Chemtrail' program was going on all the way back then (I'm 36 btw) and that it was going just as strong then, as it is today....then it appears to me that this whole thing is based on nonsense.

reply to post by bhornbuckle75


May i ask how old you are ?? I am mid 30's and watched the skies continously, and can honestly say i never saw trails like the ones now, i even recall seeing contrails from planes that would last a full minute, even was nerdy enough to time them to see how long one would last.

My first encounter with them was July 1998 when on a day that was going to cloudless according to the weather, and WAS, the SUN suddenly darkened when i was outside at a park having beers and bbq with friends, about 20 of us....

We looked up and,, WTF a massive bizarre cloud was right over the park, and then we saw another one...coming out of the back of a jet, incredible, it was like being hammered in the face with something new, we ALL NEW this was whacked and talked about it for hours, then days, and now YEARS LATER it has gotten totally out of hand.

Being outside in the sun every summer all summer long we were all dumbfounded by this, it was before and still is an air traffic corridor, immediately i was amazed and incensed by what i saw, as it got noticeably colder and less enjoyable and stood out like mad against the blue sky.

Me and my 20 friends beg to differ and even call LIAR to people who say they saw these before....PROVE IT, you will find you cannot.

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

Liar huh? Strong words.

Persistent contrails have been around for a long time. For a long time it has been known what they are.

From 1919:

The second German sighting occurred on May 9, 1919, when a pilot flying over Berlin at about 26,000 feet noticed the generation of a cloud stream that extended for about forty miles behind his plane. This stream eventually spread out to form a cloud layer that was about 3,000 feet thick. The pilot saw a similar phenomenon two days later.

www.accessmylibrary.com...

From 1940:

A few months later I witnessed the Battle of Britain taking place over my head in the July, August and September 1940. Being in SE London we had a grandstand view of the titanic struggle going on day aftr day with the intricate patterns of the contrails the most evident witness to the dog fights taking place.

www.bbc.co.uk... Short contrails do not produce intricate patterns.

1944:

So an airplane at great heights leaves behind it, stretching for endless miles, a visible "wake" composed of ice particles so tiny that they do not fall as snow but remain suspended in the air.

Source

From 1947:

Photo taken by Jerry Cole, combat aerialphotographer in the 390th Bomb Group at Framlingham Air Base in England. He is looking for a print from the original negative he shot around January 1944 or before. It shows contrails of P-47's crossing each other in the background and a B-17 in the foreground.

scoutbird.tripod.com...


From 1968:

Daily, for example, hundreds of jet planes crisscross the nation or great parts of it, often leaving fluffy contrails of water vapor, manmade clouds, as a signature of their passage.

Some contrails soon dissapate. Others turn into or are soon followed by high cirruse clouds that can and do influence the earth's heat balance with the sun.

Source




From 1970:

The spreading out of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent conditions exist from 25,000 to 40,000ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.

journals.ametsoc.org...

Henry Wadsworth Hinkle, hired man down on the farm with Uncle Clarence and Aunt Martha, looked skyward a few days ago and was awed by the multiplicity of "vapor trails," as he called them. That's the old name. Now they are called contrails-short for condensation trails-resulting from the condensation of heat flowing from high-flying jet engines.

Source

A 43-year-old novice sailor said today that he followed jet contrails over the Atlantic to help him navigate after his sextant was smashed six days out of Pymouth, England.

Source He didn't follow jets, he followed contrails. You can't follow a short contrail.

1972:

Then there is the matter of cloudiness. The familiar contrails often left by high-flying planes might persist for a long time under some conditions.

Source


From 1973:

Often, after several clear days, high flying jets begin leaving condensation trails in the sky. These "contrails" are the result of the condensation of water vapor that accompanies engine combustion at high altitudes.

Source

He occasionally looked out the window at the earth and noted geographical locations. "We're coming over Europe and I've never seen so many jet plane contrails in my life," he reported

Source

Shore was no naïf; he recognized the irony of many of his images. One of the cleverest is "U.S. 97, South of Klamath Falls, Oregon, July 21, 1973," which depicts a desolate spot of road where a billboard displays a snowcapped-mountain scene — against actual mountains in the distance. The billboard image seems to emerge from the land itself. Along with a cattle gate and a sky with blown-out contrails, the billboard is a tired and shabby advertisement for America itself.

www.pitch.com...

Contrails have to be around for a while to be "blown-out".

Then there's this 1965 Outer Limits episode. You only need to watch about 30 or forty seconds of it.


The only difference now is that there are a lot more contrails because there are a lot more jets.

For all the skeptics out there - there is plenty of documentation, if you are just willing to do the due diligence.

Perhaps they have moved this to the Skunk forum, because it truly sucks what they are doing, and people are truly waking up to this. Even my own parents are questioning the patterns they see in the sky.


G. Edward Griffin has an excellent DVD out on this subject. He also has regular coverage of this in his weekly 'Unfiltered News - www.realityzone.com...


Here is a letter to Florida Air National Guard regarding Chemtrails.

lib.store.yahoo.net...

reply to post by Phage

The only difference now is that there are a lot more contrails because there are a lot more jets.

Then chemtrailers would say, all the better to hide chemtrails...

reply to post by backinblack

No.
The "chemtrailers" say that contrails do not persist.
The "chemtrailers" say that contrails cannot spread.
The "chemtrailers" say that contrails cannot form a cloud deck.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by backinblack

 

No.
The "chemtrailers" say that contrails do not persist.
The "chemtrailers" say that contrails cannot spread.
The "chemtrailers" say that contrails cannot form a cloud deck.

Do they ALL say that??
I seriously doubt that.....

reply to post by Phage


The contrailers say, everything is a contrail, everything is normal,

Contrails are cool.

Contrails should be enjoyed for their beauty.

Contrails are good for us.

Nothing unusual about chemicals in a contrail.

Contrails are completely harmless, they are just exhaust and they can grow continously without end sometimes due to the chain reaction they set off.

But best ever, Contrailers get mad at chemtrailers...like they feel threatened.

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

The "contrailers" say that contrails can persist.

The "contrailers" say that contrails can spread.

The "contrailers" say that contrails can can form a cloud deck.

The "contrailers" say that this has been occurring since aircraft could reach the altitudes at which the water vapor in their exhaust can freeze.

The "contrailers" say that the possible influence of contrails on climate has been a topic of study for decades.

The "contrailers" say that there is no evidence that contrails are anything other than frozen water vapor.

The "contrailers" present evidence for the things they say.

The "chemtrailers" present none.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by GrinchNoMore

 

The "contrailers" say that contrails can persist.

The "contrailers" say that contrails can spread.

The "contrailers" say that contrails can can form a cloud deck.

The "contrailers" say that this has been occurring since aircraft could reach the altitudes at which the water vapor in their exhaust can freeze.

The "contrailers" say that the possible influence of contrails on climate has been a topic of study for decades.

The "contrailers" say that there is no evidence that contrails are anything other than frozen water vapor.

The "contrailers" present evidence for the things they say.

The "chemtrailers" present none.

Ahh so now you say it's the contrailers that say those things..
Now that I'll accept.

reply to post by dplum517


can someone tell me how to start a thread please because i am sitting on the patents for HAARP and can't figure out how to publish them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really need to get this info out there now

Originally posted by agentblue
reply to post by dplum517

 

can someone tell me how to start a thread please because i am sitting on the patents for HAARP and can't figure out how to publish them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really need to get this info out there now

At the top right of this thread it says "new thread"..
Click that...And post...

I am a NYC Fireman. Just wanted to share my opinions. What I do EVERYTIME I see chemtrails activity is call the FAA hotline and report suspicious activity over my house. I also on occasion call 911 and report I saw a plane flying over ( unmarked) spraying a substance, which does not require a response by emergency workers but if EVERYONE DOES THIS, we might get somewhere. I also have photos to post on here but am not allowed so if someone can give me their email address I will send them to you so you can post them.

Originally posted by Fdny714
What I do EVERYTIME I see chemtrails activity is call the FAA hotline and report suspicious activity over my house. I also on occasion call 911 and report I saw a plane flying over ( unmarked) spraying a substance,

I'm surprised a firefighter would do anything like this. Thee FAA guys must love you. Do you really call 911 to report chemtrails? I'm amazed you haven't gotten into trouble for abusing the 911 system. Someone in your position should know better. 911 is for emergencies, and you're wasting their time and resources with this?

This actually makes me doubt that you are, indeed, FDNY.

reply to post by liejunkie01


This is the thing LJ, nearly all the pseudo-skeptics on this site go to extreme's when trying to debunk chemtrails. They often automatically state chemtrailer's think the government is intentionally spraying them to kill them. This is deception. It's just not true. It's manufacturing a false opponent.

As far as I'm aware, chemtrails refer to something that only fits two criteria.

1. unknown particulate matter that's dispersed from aircraft.

2. aircraft is large and travels at high altitudes.


I think it's geo-engineering, plain and simple. I think the fallout is causing symptoms in some. I think there may have also been various biologicals dropped on some areas over the last decade or so, as well. None of this is truly that out there for the 21st century.

reply to post by unityemissions


Ummmmm.....

As far as I'm aware, chemtrails refer to something that only fits two criteria.

1. unknown particulate matter that's dispersed from aircraft.

2. aircraft is large and travels at high altitudes.

#1? Particulate matter that is dispersed from aircraft....is not "unknown" to everyone. Maybe to those who aren't educated in the technology and details. "Particulate" matter can be pesticides for crops. Released at LOW altitudes, and very obvious as to intent, and the material is known to those who are handling it. Recently, in the Gulf of Mexico, the oil dispersant --- controversial, yes, but was deemed necessary to assist in cleaning up/managing the oil spill. THAT one, BTW, is of valid concern and even faux outrage....may want to focus your efforts more finely.

Other obvious "dispersion" activities are the "cloud seeding" methods, also well-documented, easy to research, and ALSO having nothing at all to do with normal, everyday contrails. Just a few examples, there are others. Fire fighting (water usually, sometimes chemicals), etc......


#2? Large aircraft at high altitudes. Bingo!! 95% (approximately, just a wild guesstimate) are regularly scheduled passenger and cargo carrier airliners. Of course, there are also large military transport jets on occasion (the C-141, C-17) and either USAF or ANG squadron air-to-air refueling tankers (KC-135, KC-10). A troop transport will be point-to-point, and generally to overseas destinations, obviously. (Also, the government frequently charters regular U.S. commercial airlines too, in order to augment their troop movements. Especially since the Middle East heated up, back in Desert Storm One).

In the case of tanker activity, when in the U.S. is almost always conducting training. Pilots have to "drill" (Guard pilots referred to as "Weekend Warriors", since they are committed to one weekend per month when active duty ANG. Most of those guys are airline pilots, as their "other" job). So, air-to-air practice refueling occurs often, to stay "current" and sharp. It's routine in the aviation business....you are always getting tested, and practicing and getting tested again.

Finally....with ALL of that going on, the normal, routine day-to-day flying and training and recurrent instruction and testing....AND, in addition, the normal duty time limits, and required rest periods have to be adhered to....this is why the layperson's ("Chemmies") ideas are hogwash. There simply are NOT enough pilots to be doing what is claimed!!!

The "chemmies" are woefully misinformed, or willingly ignorant and SO wrapped up in their "beliefs", that no amount of information, evidence and logic to contrary gets through their thick skulls....hence, the continued postings on their many websites, the continued production of crap, idiotic and incredibly MIS-informational videos, and this hoax keeps rollin' along....to the sheer delight of those hucksters, charlatans and criminals who are making profits off of the gullible out there.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Weedwhacker is right.

I am a humbled quasi-ex-chemmie.

I had been convinced for some time that we've been being sprayed like bugs. I was so sure of myself I started two threads about it, and then I tried to lie to myself by saying I was only "investigating' a suspicion, when in fact I was only looking for validation, not proof.

I don't doubt for a second that the government is engaged in all kinds of nefarious activity. I am certain TPTB wouldn't hesitate to spray us like bugs, and they may well be doing so, and I may well have witnessed it in action in years past, but so far the only proof I've been able to supply has shown the opposite.

Using the tools and the information provided by guys like Weedwhacker, Aloysius, FirePilot, SolyentGreen, etc., I put my suspicions (read: convictions) to the test by using sounding data and the Appleman chart to compare my suspicious-looking pictures to the weather conditions for the day the photo was taken. All I've shown is on the days I took the photos of "sky-crossing grids and lines", the conditions at altitude were optimal for persistence.

Of course there is probably a weather modification program...the rat bastards at the top would have no problem with that...however I am lacking any objective proof to support that hypothesis. At this time I can only prove I'm deeply suspicious of criminal government.

Be skeptical, but verify.