Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails? I think so.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment
the only way to know for sure is get a balloon wait till yup see the chem trials hope the wind is right and send it the balloon off and wait for it to come down . now you have a collector in the tether of said balloon take it to a lab and have it the air sample analyzed. then you will know.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Very interesting picture,but one problem with it as what you think is a chemtrail in the pic is really contrails... let us look at your pic shall we.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b68e4e729edd.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is a link to where this picture can be seen along with many more contrail pics...

flickrhivemind.net...

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Very interesting site, the problem is it shows a hell of alot of chemtrails.

flickrhivemind.net...

reply to post by Gerizo

Sometimes the sun hits at the correct angle in the sky in the "trail" and you can see what almost looks like a "rainbow" effect in the sky(not a sundog). Sort of like when you see the sun reflecting of the water that has oil in it.

Well here is an interesting picture that shows exactly what you are talking about....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fa44c7edf924.jpg[/atsimg]

The funny thing here is that what you see in the pic above was actually a rainbow effect with a contrail. Here is a link to more contrail pics.

flickrhivemind.net...

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

Very interesting site, the problem is it shows a hell of alot of chemtrails.

You see what is happening here don't you? This is the problem with many believers, they seem to want to think they can tell a chemtrail is being sprayed because the grid pattern and length of trails in the sky. Well you have a link to contrails and yet you still think they are chemtrails.

reply to post by phiktion


Fuel additives can also have an effect on the colour of engine exhausts. For example the Russian Tu-160 has a distinct engine exhaust colour due to the additives to preserve engine life.





Some aircraft engines are just smoky. These MiG-29s are not deploying display smoke, but that is just the characteristics of the engine producing smoke at different power settings.



TJ

Anyone have a pic of a very well defined contrail over 160 miles long???/

Originally posted by backinblack
Anyone have a pic of a very well defined contrail over 160 miles long???/

BiB,

Not the 'Californian Missile' again?

Try measuring some of these on Google Earth?

See satellite image labelled 'Contrails in the Arabian Gulf'

www.nrlmry.navy.mil...

From

www.nrlmry.navy.mil...

For example the one east of Kish Island that runs from the Iranian coast through Abu Musa Island and down into the United Arab Emirates.

Hasn't this already been covered on the Californian missile threads several times? That is where your '160 miles' reference comes from, correct?

As already pointed out in this reply to you with the Mount Everest scenario. With the airliner cruising at 39,000 feet the contrail would be visible at such a distance. Also see how 'What size contrail can be seen in a satellite image?' contained in the post.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

TJ

reply to post by tommyjo


Last comment I promise..

Fuel additives can also have an effect on the colour of engine exhausts.

So much for the skeptic position of 'fuel additives would cause untold stresses on the engines'...

That's a wrap for now. Enjoy the ongoing argumentalism.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Gerizo

 

Sometimes the sun hits at the correct angle in the sky in the "trail" and you can see what almost looks like a "rainbow" effect in the sky(not a sundog). Sort of like when you see the sun reflecting of the water that has oil in it.

Well here is an interesting picture that shows exactly what you are talking about....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fa44c7edf924.jpg[/atsimg]

The funny thing here is that what you see in the pic above was actually a rainbow effect with a contrail. Here is a link to more contrail pics.

flickrhivemind.net...

Listen here Jester, the only thing funny was you photoshopping a rainbow over a picture which showed one "chemtrail" line and some wispy clouds. What you posted and what I have seen in the sky are in NO way shape in form the same. Unfortunately, the ATS media site will not allow me at this time to upload my picture to post it for all too see. But, I have included a link which shows "exactly" what I was talking about and as soon as the ATS media is working again I will include this picture in a post. My picture is nothing like what you posted. If you actually bothered to read this whole thread, you would have known in my previous post that I stated in my opinion the difference between the two terms. But again thank you for attempting to imply that your made up picture is what my mind's eye saw and for providing a link to really drive that "contrail" point home.

i174.photobucket.com...

Originally posted by backinblack
Anyone have a pic of a very well defined contrail over 160 miles long???/

Not sure if its exactly 160 miles but from my viewpoint the trails covered the whole skies as far as I could see on this day. Again as soon as the ATS Media site is working again I will post the pictures in my future posts.


i174.photobucket.com...

i174.photobucket.com...

i174.photobucket.com...

How sad it is...to see how many ppl here still loves to be trolling the topics. or just are so ignorant and blind that no matter what, all they can talk is if this subject is a fact or not!!
In hundreds of posts here, just a few are trully about the subject the OP brings to us!

IMHO ATS have failed in it's primal objective as a "Conspiracy debating forum", the day they erradicate the "shapeshifter reptilian" theme! and more recently it's the chemtrails one...this is a extremely arrogant position, because in the end true 100% proofs can not ever been presented about this 2 "Theorys", but they are treated in ATS as hoaxes or at the least, something that is not a true fact at all. Well ATS, maybe you can just pass to the skunks the inteire site, because in the end no matter what theory ppl are debating, no absolute real proofs exists for none!

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but in ATS it's moto "deny ignorance", it's no more for some years now!, it have changed for sure! Because the day in where some conspiracy theorys start to be censored, and other ones start to be labeled as true or false, it's the day where the old ATS moto ends for sure!

I truly believe that ATS must change and adopt a new kind of theme or name, like a "royal academy of sciences" or something like that.
ATS had entered in a kind of "truth Fanaticism age". And that have terminated his primal objective to be a good and free site where all could speak freely about "all" conspiracy theorys.

In the end, this will be just a place where ppl will only talk about politics, religion, and war against terror and so on, because nothing more will be allowed here due to the fact that no true proofs axist to support a theory.
How sad it is, realy... ...just miss the old ATS!

IMHO the OP is right, and if ATS wants to mantain is good name, at the least aliens and chemtrails topics must be traited in the same way. so create a chemtrail especific forum sector or just trash in the skunks all the aliens sector!!

reply to post by Gerizo


Those are all perfectly normal, recognizable condensation trails. Yet again.

Once formed they will remain....just as clouds will, too. Have you ever see the sky covered, horizon to horizon, by clouds? No contrails...just clouds. Well, have you? Ever?

Ever seen satellite photos of Earth...from orbit...of any number of cloud patterns. Hurricanes/cyclones for instance (extreme example, because they are the largest organized cloud structure formations). How large are they? How far do they extend?

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by tommyjo

 

Last comment I promise..

Fuel additives can also have an effect on the colour of engine exhausts.

So much for the skeptic position of 'fuel additives would cause untold stresses on the engines'...

That's a wrap for now. Enjoy the ongoing argumentalism.

Well, yeah, they can be useful too. But, saying that additives designed specifically to make an engine run better means there are additives to cause chemtrails? Stretching it a bit far. Especially since the amounts needed to make a massive chemtrail, consisting of the additive (presumably by itself) would be more voluminous than the fuel itself.

reply to post by apex


Good point....has been raised many times, how often need it be repeated?? Logic, people!:

Especially since the amounts needed to make a massive chemtrail, consisting of the additive (presumably by itself) would be more voluminous than the fuel itself.

backinblack earlier specified an 'exact' theoretical number --- "160 miles".

OK....let's examine this. Let's play "Devil's Advocate" and presume we wish to 'spray' a 'substance' that will then make a visible trail. What about dimensions? In order to be clearly visible from seven miles below (37,000 feet approximately seven statute miles, yes??)

So, the proposed desired length, already established by bib -- 160 miles (844,800 feet).
How wide must it be, then, to be visible? Well....you can use many variables, there. Depends on the flavor you prefer.....but, just going from air-to-air photos of airliners forming contrails.....an engine nacelle (cowling) diameter is from 8 to twelve feet. Contrails bloom and spread a bit, increasing their diameter. But, to stay conservative (and use round numbers) let's say 20 feet diameter.

A column, not a square or rectangle.....the math to calculate the volume of a curved object is more complicated(because, volume is the next thing to determine) but let's check the Webz for help. Everyone remembers the way to calculate the area of a circle, yes? Well, it's easy when you just, then, add the extra dimension:

How to Measure a Cylinder

Radius=r
pi = 3.14159 (approx.)
Area=A
Height=h
Volume=v
First calculate the area of the circle: A=pi*r*r
Then multiply by the height to attain volume: v = A*h = pi*r*r*h
Source

Now, I could do it the hard way ....or, THIS way:

www.online-calculators.co.uk...


Plugging in radius = 10 feet, and length = 844,800 feet result: 265,508,571 cubic feet.

265 MILLION cubic feet. 9,833,650 cubic yards. Or, 7,518,365 m³

Almost 10 million cubic yards. Or, seven and a half million cubic meters.

We've no doubt heard the phrase "The whole nine yards"....generally attributed to a reference to a concrete mixer truck capacity:

The most common truck capacity is 8 cubic yards (6 m3).

en.wikipedia.org...


Well, y'all can contemplate this, and do more math on your own.....OH, one more thing, of course. The concentration of the particles, in the trail, in order to make it visible? This is harder to figure. BUT, now that you have an idea of the volume of space you need to fill, you can toss in some numbers, and figure it out for yourselves??

reply to post by network dude

now this I just have to see. is there any chance at all, even a very remote possibly, that you could provide me a link to suggest that someone has taken a large jet and made it remote control? I am not saying it can't happen, just that I don't think it has. unless of course you can show different.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/38df927d77ca.jpg[/atsimg]

if they can fly this by remote control, what makes you doubt a larger plane couldn't be controlled by remote?

the space shuttle is pretty big

The approach and landing phase can be controlled by the autopilot

en.wikipedia.org...

autopilots great, no driver needed...just computer

reply to post by apex


Dammit - this is very frustrating. I want to walk away, but every time I do, something gets said that I just have to comment on.

Apex - to a point, I agree with what you said - additives can be designed that will enhance the engine's performance.

If additives can be designed that will enhance an engine's performance, why could additives not be designed that would not affect the engine's performance and yet still cause the desired aerosol dispersion of specific chemical cocktails??? It's absolutely no stretch on the imagination/ science to say that such additives could be designed. For example - sheathing the molecules with compounds that 'lubricate' the substance through the engine, and also act as an 'anti-catalyst'..? Chemical engineering is fascinating and the possibilities are there, I have no doubt.

Summary of my position (or, "Why I think chemtrails are a definite possibility, despite the protestations of skeptics"):

- Governments have tested chemical and biological agents on their own citizens in the past.
- A radical shift in operational ethics within the corporate-political / military-industrial infrastructure is unlikely to have occurred, in light of recent wars and economic shenanigans.
- Chemical engineering is an extremely versatile discipline, full of innovation - 'designer molecules' are always being developed, and there is every chance that a specific molecule for dispersion could be chemically sheathed in order that it does not interfere with the operation of a jet engine.
- Data is being changed retrospectively, possibly under the guise of 'correction' (not yet investigated this, don't quote me yet)
- Many people have found the strangely secretive increase in 'cloud-seeding activities' to be just that - strange. They are usually placated by self-proclaimed 'contrail specialists' on these types of forum.
- Certain big firms, with dubious records when it comes to conspiratorial shenanigans, are designing genetically modified seeds that are resistant to barium/ aluminium salts (etc)
- We are seeing a shift in all areas of food/ medicine production in favour of big corporations and against the little producers (think vitamin regulation and whatnot)
- People in the insurance business, who specifically insure against crop-loss, are concerned that crops are failing due to a novel problem, namely the apparent chemtrailing / cloud-seeding activities in the US skies (possibly other nations too, not checked yet).
- A smear campaign, with a focus on the ridicule of anyone who expresses a belief in chemtrails, is evident across all forms of media. It is one of the few conspiracies that inspires ongoing skepticism from sources whose allegiance to the 'official story' in conspiracy discussions is irrational when considering the (for example, American) government's historical abuse of its own citizens with chemical/ biological agent testing.


I refuse to get involved with a distracting argument while my knowledge of this issue is at the formative stages. There are enough indications to show me that the 'chemtrail issue' is worth investigating. I'll deliberately ignore any further responses until my conclusions are more concrete. Still, feel free to raise questions - I'll happily respond once my understanding of the issue is enhanced. I deny pseudo-skepticism as well as ignorance.

Why do the skeptics keep saying that the those who believe in chemtrails think the government is deliberately trying to poison us? Why is that so frequently mentioned.

NO!

It doesn't have to be that in the least. Stop trying to deceive people by mentioning the worst possible thing first. Why do you find the need to do this, over and over again?

Why can't the trails simply be geo-engineering? This solves more than one aspect of the debate.

If we plug in the premise that the government and scientific community knew things would get bad soon enough, and decided to covertly, preemptively work to buy civilization as we know it more time to technologically progress, then perhaps the picture becomes more clear.

Perhaps the chemtrails are meant just to reflect some of the radiation back to space, and as a consequence the dust comes back and screws up crops and slightly poisons us. It's not that the government deliberately wanted to weaken some of us, rather the only way the party could keep on going.

That's what I see as a somewhat probable scenario. I don't know it to be true, but when I plug it in to many factors over the last 10+ years, it seems as if it could fit.

reply to post by unityemissions

Why can't the trails simply be geo-engineering?

More rational than "poison".

But of course, stillnot true. Just, at least not as "woo-woo"...

Oh, BTW....WHEN/IF geo-engineering projects are actually underway? YOU, and everyone else, will know.

reply to post by vermonster


Sure. UAVs exist. They are well documented.

Now....research the payload capacites. Range. Duration. Combinaitons of all three factors. Oh, and altitude capablity.

The aircraft that are remotely pilotable can be researched, easily. Numbers, deployment arenas, etc. (Hint....most are in the Middle East Theater).

THEN....you also have every tool possible, online, to actually watch the live airplanes in flight, on your computer, and you see them visually in the sky above you.

Why won't a "chem"-trail believer just do that simple experiment?? No, they prefer not to....don't want to destroy their fantasies....