Homosexuality is a sin.

reply to post by IAMIAM

The second issue I have is that those commentaries are the words of men who speak only as they see things.

The argument can be made the same towards you. Those commentaries are from Bible scholars, they have studied the scriptures for years as along with the original languages and cultural contexts and histories. Their commentaries are reliable.

You are just twisting scripture to meet your own needs and ends. The previous verses Christ said God created man a woman and brought them together and what God has brought together man should not take apart. Christ never said God brought a man and a man together or a woman and woman together. Only a man and woman. Here is the verses Matthew 19:4-6

You are taking the eunuch thing out of context to make it mean homosexuality when it never meant that or does it now. It's a gross corruption of scripture to do so.

Originally posted by Xerxes1434
The argument can be made the same towards you. Those commentaries are from Bible scholars, they have studied the scriptures for years as along with the original languages and cultural contexts and histories. Their commentaries are reliable.

Perhaps those Bible scholars would understand better what Christ was saying if they did what he said to do, rather than look for a way to not do what was said. That to me, is twisting the word for one's self.

Soon mankind will understand that God created Man in HIS greater image, and that Man cannot make God to conform to his lesser image. The Lesser will never be the Greater.

Originally posted by Xerxes1434
You are just twisting scripture to meet your own needs and ends.

If it was to my own ends that I spoke, would I not simply agree with you. Would it not be the easier path to simply agree that you a Man have the right by God to condemn another Man because of your own interpretation of God's word? That would be the path of self, the lesser, and not the Truth. But I say to you to love all as Christ loved all, to judge none as Christ himself judged none, to do as Christ did in all your works, and for this you say I do work for my own self, for my own needs and ends? Do you then claim that I am Christ?

Originally posted by Xerxes1434
You are taking the eunuch thing out of context to make it mean homosexuality when it never meant that or does it now. It's a gross corruption of scripture to do so.

Then what of this scripture?

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do not break these commandments that follow!

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Are you being more righteous than the scribes (those who write the laws) and Pharisees (those who preach and enforce the law)?

21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Are you angry with a Brother without cause? Has a homosexual done anything to YOU to make you angry with them? Why are you angry then? Don't you know that brings judgement against you? Why do you call me fool and a twister of scripture when it is plain what I say is within Christ's own words?

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Have you rid yourself of all things that offend you? Can't you see that what you find offensive only destroys your relationship with mankind? Cast out YOUR offenses. They are just stumbling blocks that keep you divided from man.

Notice Christ does not say to cast out the offenses you see in others? He says to cast out your OWN offenses. What YOU find offensive about yourself, cast it away.

Am I twisting this?

31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Self explanatory I think.

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Is Christ saying to condemn anyone here? Is Christ saying to find fault? Is Christ saying to turn away a Brother for anything at all?

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Hhhmm Seems to me that Christ wants you to love even those you find it personally difficult to love. I still haven't seen him say to judge anyone. It would seem to me that Christ is explaining to not judge anyone since the Father himself does not judge anyone. Do you presume to think you have more right to decide who is right or wrong than the father in heaven?

Have I twisted something my friend? Do these words suit my own ends or do they suit the ends of all mankind? Do these words suit my ends or are they merely a continuation of Christ's work?

Are you being perfect?

Show me where Christ himself has condmened anyone? If you cannot, then be as Christ, do his work, and condemn no one yourself.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


You are incredibly deceived. You keep hiding behind that 'don't judge' to avoid talking about sin. Romans 3:20 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:31 "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Christ pointed out the sin of others and condemned them.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 12:34
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

Matthew 23:33
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Luke 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 15:7
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you

Matthew 22:18
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?

I'm not going to argue with you any further. You have no desire to know the gospel but instead rather believe a feel good lie crafted by the liberal churches. I just hope you know the true God before the great Throne Judgement.

reply to post by Xerxes1434


It's not as if there's safety in numbers, but I would still like to add my voice in support of IAM.

You write in your recent answer to him, that

Quote: ["The argument can be made the same towards you. Those commentaries are from Bible scholars, they have studied the scriptures for years as along with the original languages and cultural contexts and histories. Their commentaries are reliable."]

While 'experts' ofcourse can add very valuable and relevant information on any subject, I wonder if YOUR final opinion is, that such a difficult interpretated material as the bible eventually should rely on 'expert authority'.

Such 'expert' reliance is possible in e.g. science, as it's possible to reproduce, test and verify every single step in the 'expert's' recommendations. This is not possible on theist grounds, as many of the premises and methodologies are subjective, hence also many 'experts' arriving at different conclusions.

But that was a digression from what I essentially want to say. The original OP contains the postulate of 'homosexuality as a sin', based on a literalist interpretation of the bible. The author of the OP eventually lost his marbles and became abusive on the subject, clearly demonstrating that literalist attitudes CAN lead to unacceptable excesses.

Social negative attitudes and consequences for homosexuals are or have been a fact (depending on cultural background), as manifested by the OP author.

So the question is, how literal is a literal bible-reliance supposed to be. Are there e.g. literal cherry-pickers, saying that it's OK to hide inside one kind of christianity and from there derogate a minority, but at the same time disregarding the command in lev 20:13 of killing homosexuals. Why one and not the other?

I'm not asking this question from a contemporary, liberal perspective. My question is: "How does a 'true' christian read and relate to the bible?"

PS I'm aware, that we eventually will end with Melchizedek as a moot-point, but let's take things in their order.

Originally posted by Xerxes1434
You are incredibly deceived. You keep hiding behind that 'don't judge' to avoid talking about sin. Romans 3:20 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:31 "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Interesting. Do you take the words of Christ as truth, or the word of those who NEVER knew Christ? Romans, an appropriate label for the book. Much to do about the Romans, and little to do with Christ.

Originally posted by Xerxes1434
Christ pointed out the sin of others and condemned them.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 12:34
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

Matthew 23:33
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Luke 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Matthew 15:7
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you

Matthew 22:18
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?

Funny!! He was talking to the Pharisees, the priests who felt they were righteous enough to cast judgement on others!! LOL..

Too funny my friend. You come as a Pharisee, supported by the works of Pharisees, and condemn the words of Christ himself just as a Pharisee. Should history be repeated, would you be calling for the crucifixion of Christ as well because he would say something you disagreed with?

Originally posted by Xerxes1434
I'm not going to argue with you any further. You have no desire to know the gospel but instead rather believe a feel good lie crafted by the liberal churches. I just hope you know the true God before the great Throne Judgement.

You obviously do not know who I AM.

I do not come representing a church.
I do not come representing another Man.
I come speaking Christ's own words and revealing them for all through the deceptions that foolish men would put on them.

I AM.

Count your flock my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


I wish I knew more people who loved like that haha

I've never been able to wrap my head around how so many Christians can go around denouncing homosexuality like it's different from any other sin. We all sin, even those of you who sit mighty high on your pedestals and shake your fists -- feeling better about your own sins the more you put down gay people and homosexuality.

Yes, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. But it also says that swearing is a sin. It says that even looking at another women with unjust thoughts in your head if you're married is a sin. It says that a lot of things are a sin and you can bet your behind that we all sin multiple times throughout our daily lives. It's in our nature -- we're human. It's why Jesus had to come and die on the cross for us in the first place!

The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Per Matthew 12, verses 31-32:

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”

It's almost as if the people you see on the news violently protesting against gay people don't even bother to read their Bible's. Indeed, I'm certain this is mostly true for the vast majority of them. We're all Brothers and Sisters in Christ -- even those of us who are not saved. We all sin and none of us is better than any other. God is most assuredly displeased of us when we exhibit hatred of any kind. Feelings and the outpouring of hatred against anything or anyone is most certainly not from Heaven and will definitely not lead you down any paths even closely resembling riotousness.

Again, let us quote a verse from the Book of Matthew, chapter 7, verse 3:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

And we as Christians really wonder why we're despised so much when trying to spread the Word? Perhaps it's because we're coming off as blatant hypocrites, talking down to everyone who is not saved as if we're somehow better than them in every conceivable way. I'm afraid to admit that all of this behavior disgusts and saddens me a great deal. There's no way anyone will be receptive of the Gospel when it's promoted to them in such a way.

All in all, the "Christians" that spend their time spewing hatred and informing all homosexuals that they're most certainly going to Hell may want to take a step back and look at themselves in the mirror as they've obviously become completely unhinged from everything that made them a Christian in the first place.

Tis just my opinion.

God gives man freewill. Two men/women of their own freewill enter a loving relationship and YOUR God has the audacity to say that is a sin. What a load of bollocks that only braindead morons would accept or believe. Homosexuality has been around since the year 0. It is as natural as two people of the opposite sex having a loving relationship. It is rarely a choice - in the majority of cases gay men and women were born with these feelings so if anyone is to be blamed or punished then it should be God for being such a hypocrite. I HATE Homophobes as much as I HATE rascists.

reply to post by TattooedWarrior


I like this answer. It starts off saying that god gave man freewill. Then later it says that it is rarely a choice - in the majority of cases gay men and women were born with these feelings.
Which is it?
I say that there is no free will given to man and that is where all the confusion lies. The truth that is being pointed to in all scriptures is that no person has free will.
It is all gods will.
God does a very good job, but man complains all the time.
Gods will, flow with it, or fight it. Live or struggle. Heaven or Hell.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by TattooedWarrior

 

I like this answer. It starts off saying that god gave man freewill. Then later it says that it is rarely a choice - in the majority of cases gay men and women were born with these feelings.
Which is it?
I say that there is no free will given to man and that is where all the confusion lies. The truth that is being pointed to in all scriptures is that no person has no free will.
It is all gods will.
God does a very good job, but man complains all the time.

You must live a very blessed and happy life my friend!

Indeed, it is all God's will! We can either accept it, or bitch about it. We are just watching the show. The more we bitch about it, the more we hate this existence.

If we stop judging it, and love it all, then the world will see the wonders of God.

Well said my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Yeah, i'm just watching the show and it's great. Happiness is my true nature.

reply to post by alysha.angel


As previously stated, "sin" is fun and fulfilling.
And...I have a question...
if homosexuality is a sin...then why do so many priests bang little boys?
Surely there's something, somewhere in the bible, maybe towards the back...that says "thou priests shant bang little boys" or something along those lines.
Right?

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez
Judging people is also a sin.
So is stealing money from people, like most churches do.

The problem is with your statement, is that, the op nor the churches are doing any judging in the op's thread
he is merely showing what the scriptures say, it is the word that judges.

Originally posted by Matthew Dark
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

As previously stated, "sin" is fun and fulfilling.
And...I have a question...
if homosexuality is a sin...then why do so many priests bang little boys?
Surely there's something, somewhere in the bible, maybe towards the back...that says "thou priests shant bang little boys" or something along those lines.
Right?

Your right, and even the bible agrees that sin is sweet for a season, but the end leads to death
so you may continue to be happy in your sin during your very short life here, but what about the eternity
afterwards,which is of course a lot longer than your life span. will it be worth it then?

Originally posted by infojunkie2

Originally posted by Matthew Dark
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

As previously stated, "sin" is fun and fulfilling.
And...I have a question...
if homosexuality is a sin...then why do so many priests bang little boys?
Surely there's something, somewhere in the bible, maybe towards the back...that says "thou priests shant bang little boys" or something along those lines.
Right?

Your right, and even the bible agrees that sin is sweet for a season, but the end leads to death
so you may continue to be happy in your sin during your very short life here, but what about the eternity
afterwards,which is of course a lot longer than your life span. will it be worth it then?

That's assuming that the "afterlife" is as you describe it.
Which, I doubt.

yes, if youre a christian homosexuality is a sin.. we got it. We all got it loud and clear in bright neon flashing lights. Have at declaring everything you denounce as a sin.. there are plenty of xtian sins to go around besides your pet sins you like to rehash every 48 hours. Im happy you arent a homo and hate homos and hope they all spontaneously combust in fiery righteous judgement.

WE UNDERSTAND.. YOU THINK ITS A SIN.

okay, now that we are all on the same page.. do we really need another thread on homosexuality being a sin, homos are going to hell, blah blah blah?

We can NOW MOVE ON to sloth, vanity, taking the lords name in vain, pride, disrespecting parents, covetousness, bearing false witness, blah blah blah and the plethora of other sins the lily white here forget all about?? Condemning people isnt nearly as fun when you choose to make thread after thread concerning the sins you are guilty of too.

reply to post by Advantage


You go girl !!! Woot !

I tottally second what you said . Goodnight.


People it's simple just love each other

reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55

reply to post by infojunkie2


Well then that must make the bible one huge oxymoron because the bible also says "There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor? "

Originally posted by SamTGonzalez
reply to post by infojunkie2

 

Well then that must make the bible one huge oxymoron because the bible also says "There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor? "

Good grief, go back and actually read my post,how do you get that I am judging anybody out of what I wrote?
I said ,that the word of God is what judges, in case you dont know ,the word of God is not me nor any person.

I will try to put it in the most elementary terms for you, it's just like a police officer who,tells you that running a stop sign is illegal, he is not the one judging you,it is the judge in the court room judging you.