Homosexuality is a sin.

Originally posted by TinFoilHatMan55

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
Im a Christian myself and do believe homosexuality is a sin, but what about the people that say they are born gay or born lesbian, how should they live their lives, what if they indeed were born homosexual, is it their fault or God's or what?

People aren't born homosexual. Read Genesis, God made man and woman so they could come together and be one flesh.

People choose homosexuality as a lifestyle choice and reject God. The Bible says you can't serve two masters, you either love one and hate the other. You can see by the replies in this thread that people hate God and love the world. I will pray for everyone here that has posted, may Christ guide you to the light.

You know I find this to be the dumbest argument of all and fundamentalist love to repeat it. If it was a choice
everyone would chose to be heterosexual because choosing to be homosexual would put you in a position to be
attacked and discriminated against from a lot of intolerant people and if you cross the wrong bigoted people it could possibly cost you your life. There have been many people who have thought and denied their homosexuality in order to fit in and conform so to say it is a choice like choosing what color shirt you are going to wear today or what relgion you are going to choose to believe in is moronic and bigoted.

Originally posted by nahsik
Wait how do you explain all those animals that have homosexual tendencies
source - en.wikipedia.org...

Are they sinful? Or your explanation is that they have no soul? So humans are the only animals who have a soul in this universe? What are you going to tell me next? Aliens are demons? There are supposedly 500 million planets in this galaxy alone that can support life. Are you going to tell me they all inhabit demons?

Here watch this about your noah's ark

Hinduism is one the oldest religion in the world and sanskrit is one of the oldest languages in regards to religion. I don't think your christianity and your pompous belief that everything after the birth of jesus christ is the only relevant thing necessary to understand in life.

edit on 21-2-2011 by nahsik because: (no reason given)

I never got an explanation to my post by you bible wielders.

reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55


I'm not saying you're gay, that was not my intention, but I was asking you what if you were? You wouldn't be so quick to say something as cynical as 'you aren't born gay' And what makes you think I'm not a Christian? I AM a Christian, I was raised a Christian, I went to a Christian school, I have a Christian family....but I'm opposed to the happy-clappers such as yourself...it makes me sick.

And I say ignorant, because you have just proven my point exactly....you aren't born gay? how do you know? What divine blessing has been bestowed upon you to know such things?

p.s. don't bother with all the endless pages of scripture you paste in the bottom of the arguments, no one reads them.

I think calling people trolls because they post on controversial subjects is pretty weak and avoids rebutting the claims made.

I have not posted on here that much but I have been a viewer of the site for awhile now. Turning on each other with name calling isn't going to improve the site any. This isn't recess time where go outside and call each other childish names and point fingers at one another.

Most of us are adults here and should be able to carry out a well thought out and intelligent debate on such topics. Can we please stop the name calling and move on with the discussion or let it die and be buried in the board.

That is all, good night.

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


Nice of you to assume that I was making a useless point. The OP is creating inflammatory threads geared towards this topic for attention.

The thread was dead for over 16 hours before your post resuscitated it.

Originally posted by Brad-H
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55

 

I'm not saying you're gay, that was not my intention, but I was asking you what if you were? You wouldn't be so quick to say something as cynical as 'you aren't born gay' And what makes you think I'm not a Christian? I AM a Christian, I was raised a Christian, I went to a Christian school, I have a Christian family....but I'm opposed to the happy-clappers such as yourself...it makes me sick.

And I say ignorant, because you have just proven my point exactly....you aren't born gay? how do you know? What divine blessing has been bestowed upon you to know such things?

p.s. don't bother with all the endless pages of scripture you paste in the bottom of the arguments, no one reads them.

I quoted scripture because it stands by itself and backs up the topic at hand, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." -2 Timothy 3:16-17.

All I do is get accused of "trolling," which isn't what I was doing. If you want to reject what the Bible says that is fine. Each one will be accountable to God on the Day of Judgement. Read the prophetic books, even the people of Israel rejected the prophets of God when they tried to warn and rebuke them. This is no different. I'm trying to save souls as commanded by God.

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. -Matthew 10:14-15 This thread has descended into circular arguments and I feel like I have no need to keep debating it further. It has gotten no where and stagnated. So I shall shake the dust from my feet and go no further with this topic. I just hope you people will let the scales fall of your eyes and see the Light before great and terrible day comes.

May Christ touch your heart. I will pray for you and God bless. I will no longer reply to this thread.

Yours in Christ,
-TinFoilHatMan55

reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55


You wrote:

["I quoted scripture because it stands by itself and backs up the topic at hand, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." -2 Timothy 3:16-17."]

So you're down to circle-argumentation now.

ANYTHING can be 'proved' that way, and amongst the emotionally unstable, the next step is often physical or verbal violence.

Your own most recent post points in such a direction:

The post was removed, so I also remove my quote from it.

The topic of this thread is "Homosexuality is a sin."

All comments should pertain to either supporting or refuting that assertion. Continued insults, explicit commentary or further off-topic derailing will not be tolerated.

ATS seeks to foster civilized discussion and it's expected that members will post as such.

Sodom and Gomorrah come to mind. The bible says God destroyed the two cities specifically because of the rampant sexual sins going on, and specifies homosexual relations as one of them. The cities were burned at such a devastating heat that the buildings turned to ash while still holding it's form. The buildings can still be seen today, and the bible said it would remain as a sign to all.

Anyways, arguing what is a sin and what isn't is useless. Just read it in the bible. If you don't believe the bible, then why do you care if it is a sin?

This is a comment from another thread which is very pertinent to this one. Forgive me mods for copying most of it rather than rewording a fresh reply.

One day I decided to sit down and actually read what Christ was all about. I was amazed. He never says how he was born, you would think he would but he didn't. He never says how he grew up. Christ comes on the scene at a time when the people were oppressed by the Romans on one side, and the Priesthood of various cults on the other. He comes in as a revolutionary Rabbi and immediately starts a peaceful revolution against the powers that be.

His first sermon, The Sermon on the Mount, was a direct attack at the Priestclass and government. He starts telling people a different doctrine than what both have been teaching.

Read this direct confrontation with the Priests of the Temple:

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is as rebellious as it gets my friend. Imagine someone standing in the public square today and saying something like this:

You have heard it said that if a Man fornicates with a Man, then he will surely be condemned to hell. But, I say to you that a Man who does not love his fellow Man will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I say again, Love one another.

You have heard it said that if a Man commits an evil, they must come before the church and confess their sins or they shall be condemned to hell. But, I say unto you, if a Man does an evil he should confess it to his Brother who he has harmed, and that Brother should forgive him. I say again, forgive one another, or do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

You have heard it said that a Man must bow before Christ and accept him as your savior, or you will be condemned to hell. But, I say to you that you should see Christ in your fellow man, and reach out to them when you need to be saved, and he being reached out to should be as Christ, and do they Brothers bidding. I say again, Love one another, even as Christ Loved you.


I mean, could you imagine the balls someone would have to have to say such things? Can you imagine how the powers that be would react?

How about if it was taken a step further:

What should we do about all these damn taxes the government keeps taking from us?

Give the government back all the worthless crap it has given you. Give them back there worthless paper. Give them back the money. Give them back the paper which your laws are written on. Give them back the paper which says they own your house. Give them back the authority over your lives.

Give to God, the divine spirit within all man, that which belongs to God, your love, devotion, and mutual aid and assistance in this world. Stand up and be Kings and Queens working together in the Kingdom of God.

Yeah, someone who would say such things, just might be labeled a heretic, nailed to a cross, and distorted in the history books.

Sun God? NO. Son of God? YES. And, if you believe Christ was, he believed you were too. If you believe I am, I believe you are too. If you stand with me, I will stand with you. If you love as Christ did, the world will love you too.

Well, not TPTB.

With Love,

Your Brother

If you actually take the time to learn just a little bit about Christ from his disciples and your OWN heart, You will be amazed at the lies people have told in his name.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Sir, I appreciate your patience! Over many posts, you have proven steadfast to your beliefs!

But do you believe being homosexual is wrong? I'm sorry, I didn't have time to read over all of these posts
Thanks

Originally posted by chancemusky
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Sir, I appreciate your patience! Over many posts, you have proven steadfast to your beliefs!

But do you believe being homosexual is wrong? I'm sorry, I didn't have time to read over all of these posts
Thanks

Yes, homosexuality is wrong, for ME. I love my women, what can I say. However, I cannot say what is right for YOU.

I love homosexuals as much as I love heterosexuals. In fact, I find the labels simply ridiculous. Do we really need labels to throw upon us to tell others who we are sexually attracted to? A simple "no thanks" would suffice to any would be suitor.

We are a mixed up species drowning in our desire to label any and everything. Labels do not matter for anything!

They were not here before we came, and they will not remain once we leave.

Labels only serve to divide!

I AM

With Love,

Your Brother

Listen my friends, it is time to crawl out of your graves and understand this world you inhabit.

You are NOT these silly labels you continue to toss about. They are merely body armor to protect that vulnerable loving piece of the divine that inhabits your very being.

You are not heterosexual, that is a sexual preference.
You are not homosexual, that is a sexual preference.
You are not man, that is the flesh you inhabit.
You are not woman, that is the flesh you inhabit.
You are not American, Israeli, Nigerian, Pakistani, or none of those other labels of division, that just happens to be the culture you were born into.
You are not a Mechanic, a Seamstress, a Fisherman, a Carpenter, a Mason, those are trades you learned.

Know thyself!

Who are you? It is ok to look. Go within and discover WHO YOU ARE!!!!!

Once you do you will see just how vulnerable you are.
Once you do you will see just how much you NEED love.
Once you do you will NOT need the labels.
You will NOT Judge others!

Judging is THE Sin. It is what creates these divisions we have. It is what creates this hate and discord.

LOOK within.

With Love,

Your Brother

If you knew what it felt like to 'get it on' with another woman, you'd realise it's no sin! Or if it is, send me to hell, i'll go happily!

(i'm sure the same can be applied to male-male, but, it's not like i can speak from experience on that ;p)

reply to post by IAMIAM


This is a response to one of your post about being born a eunuch means being born gay. I have to disagree with that. Let me quote a commentary on Matthew 19:12.

From the Wycliff Bible Commentary:

12. Some are incapable of marriage because of congenital defects; others because of injury or restrictions imposed by men. Still others may forego the privilege of marriage in order to devote themselves more completely to the service of God (e.g., Paul, 1 Cor 7:7, 8, 26, 32-35).

Link

Being born as eunuch means being born with a defect that prevents the man from sex or being able to get aroused and has nothing to do with being born a homosexual. No where in the Bible does it advocate homosexuality or says people are born that way.

Here is another commentary I found:

I have heard all sorts of strange explanations of this passage, even some which would seek to use it to justify homosexuality! So what exactly is Jesus getting at here? The short answer is that Jesus is simply stating that celibacy may well be an option for some of his followers.

Of course in first century Jewish culture this was a pretty radical concept. Jews back then considered marriage and the bearing of children to be a duty. The unmarried Jesus would have been a rare exception in that culture. Marriage is certainly God’s norm, but as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 7, both marriage and singleness are gifts of God.

As to the three categories of eunuchs which Jesus mentions, the first two are to be understood in a literal sense, while the third is evidently metaphorical in intent. The first category has to do with those who are born without the physical capability – in other words, those who are, for various reasons, impotent.

....

As R. T. France states, it is of course anachronistic to read back modern Western notions of homosexual orientation into this passage. No first century Middle Easterner would have thought in those terms. Also, back then homosexuality most often meant what we today call bi-sexuality: primarily men who had sex with both women and other men. There was no thought of people being born with some inherent, unalterable homosexual orientation. (The Gospel of Matthew, Eerdmans, 2007, pp. 724-725.)

....

Looked at in this way, Matthew 19:11-12 is not too difficult to understand. Sure, there will always be theological revisionists who will seek to distort such passages in order to promote their agenda, such as the homosexual activists. But usually each text, considered in its context, and compared with other biblical passages, can be found to be more clear and straightforward than first thought.

Link

and another commentary:

Calvin's Commentary

12. For there are eunuchs Christ distinguishes three kinds of eunuchs Those who are so by nature, or who have been castrated by men, are debarred from marriage by this defect, for they are not men. He says that there are other eunuchs, who have castrated themselves, that they may be more at liberty to serve God; and these he exempts from the obligation to marry. Hence it follows, that all others who avoid marriage fight against God with sacrilegious hardihood, after the manner of the giants. When Papists urge the word castrate, (eunouchisan) as if at their own pleasure men might lay themselves under obligation to continence, it is too frivolous. For Christ has already declared, that God gives it to whom he chooses; and, a little afterwards, we shall find him maintaining, that it is folly in any man to choose to live unmarried, when he has not received this special gift. This castration, therefore, is not left to free will; but the plain meaning is, while some men are by nature fit to marry, though they abstain, they do not tempt God, because God grants them exemption.

Link

Here is another source that mentions being born a eunuch means being born with a defect(s)

which were so born from their mother's womb;
meaning, not such who, through a natural temper and inclination of mind, could easily abstain from marriage, and chose to live single; but such who had such defects in nature that they were impotent, unfit for, and unable to perform the duties of a marriage state; who, as some are born without hands or feet, these were born without proper and perfect organs of generation; and such an one was, by the Jews, frequently called, (hmh oyro) , "an eunuch of the sun F14": that is, as their doctors F15 explain it, one that from his mother's womb never saw the sun but as an eunuch; that is, one that is born so; and that such an one is here intended, ought not to be doubted. The signs of such an eunuch, are given by the Jewish F16 writers, which may be consulted by those, that have ability and leisure. This sort is sometimes F17 called (Mymv ydyb oyro) "an eunuch by the hands of heaven", or God, in distinction from those who are so by the hands, or means of men, and are next mentioned

Link

reply to post by Xerxes1434


Thank you for offering the other side of the debate on the term eunuch my friend. It is always wise to see all sides of a thing to truly know what that thing is.

Now it makes one wonder, was sexual dysfunction so very popular at the time of Christ that he felt it worthy of mentioning to his disciples? If that is true, surely there must have been a plague upon mankind at the time for it to be worthy of his consideration.

What we do know is that the word "homosexual" did not exist at the time. We know that "homosexuals" existed for there was the penalty of death for any man who fornicated with another man. Thus this had to have been a regular occurrence which had to be suppressed, but where is sexual deformity mentioned any where else in the Bible? For it to have been so popular, surely it was mentioned. Christ was after all, bringing in a new testament which contradicted the old. Why mention sexual deformity at all if it wasn't an issue to those laws of old?

The second issue I have is that those commentaries are the words of men who speak only as they see things. They have not put themselves, nor can they, into the body and mind of one who is drawn to his fellow man in that way. They cannot judge him lest they be hypocrites because they truly do not know. Furthermore, whether they admit it or not, there are desires within their own heart that if shown the light of day would suffer them to the very same condemnation that they, from the cover of darkness, toss upon others.

These men we call hypocrites.

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Lastly, I must wonder where have the values of Mankind gone when they will condemn a Man for Loving a Man while those same Men show so little Love to the Women they profess to cherish? Has the institute of Marriage proven the love between Man and Woman more sacred than all other Love? No, I say we are to Love one another and tend our own Kingdoms, do your works to glorify the father within you, and let him be your own guide in all your worldly endeavors while leaving HIM to guide other men in theirs.

With Love,

Your Brother