[Macho's ONLY!] A gun is a VERY WEAK attitude to carry! Whats the matter with you? Be a Man OK!

I personally wish firearms were never invented. I read somebody's post asking about a "What if Kimbo Slice.." situation. How about what if some scrawny stranger pulled a gun out on you and pointed to your head? I rather get beat down by Kimbo Slice then to be shot by some unknown loser.

Another thing too is when people have such weapons like firearms, then people tend to live in fear, people can't live like they used to. People are killing people behind childish pranks.

Teen Murdered For Egging Vehicle

It's ridiculous. Just think about it.

OK, you're tough. Congrats. The following was sent to me in an email. I don;t know if it is true or not as far as the author goes, but it is certainly a sentiment to be shared. I don't think I can attribute it any better, so I'll just quote it:

"The Gun Is Civilization"

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...

And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

I guess that's a long-winded way of saying an armed society is a polite society. But I also like the sentiment that my 100 pound sister does not have to dep[end on some macho knuckle-dragging dude for protection. She's a good shot, is well-trained, and can handle herself.

And that's a very good thing.

reply to post by schuyler


That essay was actually written by Marko Kloos and is available on his blog The Munchkin Wrangler. He has a couple of good essays.

The Second one I like is, Give Them Nothing

Give Them Nothing

A long time ago, I had a discussion with my former mother-in-law about my desire to carry a gun for protection. She was very much opposed to the concept, to put it mildly. When I asked her what her plans were if she ever got robbed at gun- or knifepoint, she replied that she’d try and talk it out with her attacker, or just give them what they want.

“Everybody wants to be respected,” she said. “We’re all just human beings.”

I told her that she was nurturing a very dangerous misconception, one that could very well get her hurt or killed someday.

There are people in this world to whom you’re not a human being. They don’t want to be respected by you. They don’t care about you–they’re not even really aware of you. They only care about the food you represent, the money that’s in your pocket. You’re not a person to them, but an obstacle. You’re just in the way of the reward, like a wrapper around a candy bar, and these people are willing to discard you just like that wrapper in order to get what they want.

If you don’t believe that, if you are one of the people who think that “everyone wants to be valued and respected”, you are deluding yourself, to put it mildly. There are literally hundreds of surveillance camera videos out on the Internet that show criminals injuring or killing people for the transgression of not handing over the money or opening the safe fast enough. For those of you who think that “if you give them what they want, they’ll go away”, there are almost as many videos out there of people getting hurt or killed after handing over the goods, simply because they’re now witnesses to a crime that allows for a lengthy jail term. Leaving you alive greatly increases the chance of getting caught, you see, and the extra ten years for shooting you don’t enter the thug’s mind. Besides, few people ever commit a crime expecting to get caught.

Whenever I see the camera footage of some poor convenience store clerk getting shot at point-blank range just because the robber is angry at the lack of cash in the drawer, or the fast food manager being shot as he is lying prone in front of his safe after the robbers have already removed the cash, I get angry. I feel anger at the thought of these low-lifes, people who have never known another way of making a living than to take what they want from others by force. I feel anger at the sight of someone casually taking another’s life over a few hundred bucks–taking a husband from his wife, a son from his parents, or a father from his children, just because they’re in the way. Can you imagine your life ending tonight, with you taking your last breaths on the dingy linoleum floor of some convenience store, just because you had the bad luck of drawing third shift? Can you imagine what it would be like to have everything taken from you in a few moments–your history, your knowledge, your hopes, your dreams, your consciousness–all over a few pieces of paper? If you can, don’t you, too, feel white hot anger when you think of the person who would do such a thing to you without a second thought just so they can get a fix, pay the rent, and get a new game for the Playstation?

It’s mind-boggling to me that there are people who perpetuate the dangerous myth that you can rely on the humanity and reason of a person who is already threatening to kill you over the contents of your wallet, an entirely inhumane and unreasonable act in itself.

“Violence begets violence”, they say, as if that’s somehow a bad thing. In the words of the late Jeff Cooper, I would certainly hope that it does. That’s the whole point of self-defense: when reason doesn’t work anymore, then naked force is the only thing that’s left other than abject surrender. It would be a great and awesome world where the majority of criminals are the ones who end up in the body bag, and not their victims. Appeasement doesn’t stop the bully or the thug, and neither does submission. What stops them is the knowledge that they’re likely to bite off more than they can chew, which is why they invariably pick their targets among those who are perceived as meek or soft.

Think about it for a second, and pretend you’re someone who makes a living by sticking guns in people’s faces. Which kind of society would encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing–one where you know people are being told to “give them what they want and don’t resist”, or one where people refuse to go quietly into that good night, and where they will fight back with anything that comes to hand?

No, the appropriate response to violence is not submission. Submission encourages the thugs, and it gives them absolutely no incentive to consider a career change. When you preach submission, you only guarantee more of the behavior that takes advantage of that submission. The only appropriate response to violence is white-hot anger. When someone sticks a gun in your face and threatens to kill you over the contents of your wallet or your register, your response ought to be rage. The very thought of some low-life thug threatening to snuff you out and make your children orphans for no reason other than the money you carry ought to make you furious.

And then you need to put that fury to good use. Yield nothing, not an inch, not a penny, not a hair on your head, without fighting for it tooth and nail. Do your level best to ensure that if someone has to end up in a body bag this hour, it won’t be your body in that bag. And even if it should happen to be your turn to take your seat in Valhalla, you might as well put your best effort into making sure that you arrive there with your attacker in a firm headlock.

Marko Kloos; Give Them Nothing

reply to post by Mizzijr


The funny thing is that most gun owners wish that there was no need for a gun. If I could wake up and wish every gun in the world away, I would. If I could wish every violent impulse away , I would. The sad truth is that I can't. So, I refuse to allow those that follow their most base and violent urges to prey upon me and my family.

I don't carry a gun looking to shoot anything. I carry a gun so that I am prepared if somebody puts my life in danger or endangers the life of my family. Submission does not mean survival and only encourages the predatory behavior. Just look at England. Violent crime has risen since 1997 when they banned handguns. Women have recieved the brunt of it with increases in domestic abuse and rape. (Let us not forget there are still over 7,000 firearm offenses per year in England.)

You are actually more likely to be violently attacked in England and Scotland than in the US. The predators understand that the week can not level the playing field. They know that the women, the old, and the infirmed are easy targets. So, they attack without consideration of fear.

I refuse to be a victim, I refuse to give even one inch to anyone that believes it is their right to kill the body, soul, or spirit of my family or myself. I will fight to the death, with all I have, for those I love. That doesn't mean simple assault will be answered with a gun. It means that when someone puts a reasoanable fear of sexual assault, death, or serious bodily injury in my mind and in my heart, I will react with enough force to stop them.

I refuse to be a victim. As a law abiding, peace loving, and contributing citizen of planet earth I have the right to go about my life unmolested. I have just as much if not more right to live, breathe, and enjoy the fruits of this planet as any predator out there. I will not let them deny my family or myself of those rights.

reply to post by MikeNice81


I agree with your point of view.

I'm 19, can't carry a pistol yet, but I will once I'm 21.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Yeah go on you keep lifting weights, running those miles, training in that MMA stuff, I`ll keep loading my .44 and will see who comes out on top. Just because you carry a gun doesn`t make you any less of a man. You can be the strongest fighter in the world but that wont stop me from using my 12g to see what guys like you had for breakfast. So when you`re corned in an alley with some homosexual steroid addicted street gang finds you, you`ll be wishing one of us gun toting, freedom loving, god fearing, musclecar/truck driving, southern rednecks just happens to be walking by. `til then go get a gun.

Alright...Alright...Alright...easy guys...easy....easy now......back off.

Catch a breath.

I am not sure if you guys can see past your egos but this is not the place or time for "unzipping" and showing who has the biggest one.

That stuff too most of us left back in high school...back in the acne days.

Alot of us have long left that kind of behavior years ago...gun or no gun ownership,



I have to go along with the outline of what Golf 66 declares..and if I may take the liberty of paraphrasing what he said..

Many of us out here are under certain disciplines in our private lives. In the basic outline, we don't want to bother anyone ..and don't want to be bothered. We want to be left alone.

If you want to phrase it another way....we are "sectarian"...separated from most peoples and very private in our personal lives. We are also choosy about the company we keep. Another way of phrasing it ..is that we are somewhat anti social. We don't like being around undisciplined peoples...gun ownership or not. We will separate ourselves quickly from such.

Most of this world prefers "non sectarian" or social type peoples. That means that we must needs join in whatever "cluster you know what" is fashionable today. Most of us are not interested in this. We are not interested in keeping up with constantly changing winds. We are private ...and often "anti social and we don't care who knows it or approves or not approve. It is not that we are totally unsocial..but are choosy about the company we keep..even among other gun owners. No wildlife need apply!! We make no apologies for this. The rest of the world and it's "cluster you know what" can take a hike/get lost.
Not only that ...as Americans and Yanks..we have a fundamental right to think this way and live our lives in this manner. Gun ownership or not.

Also ..;people of discipline and real life experiences..do not want to ever pull their gun...but they know by these disciplines that it may not be their circumstance..but circumstance beyond our control...and we will only get one choice at the moment. Choose wisely.
We also know not to default this choice over to another when our own welfare/lives are at stake.

This is an American way...and we have no desire to default this knowledge to Englishmen...The English government, nor our own government. That in itself is a "walking cluster you know what!!"

For those of you unwise in this knowledge and discipline of history and governments...all you have to do is observe what is going on right now in several Mid Eastern Nations where the governments are turning their military on their own people...many of them totally unarmed. Libya comes to mind as well as Egypt.
You have to go to school and get a public/television/movie education and get sufficiently dumbed down not to comprehend what is going on there and also be dumb enough to think it cannot happen in your own nations.

For I know that even in this nation...the military has done drills/exercises where they enter and take over towns and disarm the populace...take over civil functions..all communications...etc etc. I am not deceived by this Love Love Love viewpoint of a Utopia or Eden...for it too is a "cluster you know what." A pipe dream.

Hope this helps to clarify how many of us think and believe..also want to be left alone..

Orangetom

.- - ... / --- .-. .- -. --. . - --- --

reply to post by orangetom1999


'Hello, we're from the Guv'ment, and we're here to help you, feed you, give you deep muscle massages and generally protect you from yourselves! Just relax and believe everything we tell you as to how to act, eat, sleep, believe, copulate and anything else we think will benefit our agenda and all will be well with the world!!'

Ya, I believe that.......OH and just to let you know I'm going to be elected the next Pope and I ain't even Catholic! honest..no kidding, really!! I'm just as truthful as our generous benevolent guv'ment!

Zindo

Zindo,

'Hello, we're from the Guv'ment, and we're here to help you, feed you, give you deep muscle massages and generally protect you from yourselves!

LOL LOL LOL...Zindo..I am trying very hard to keep a straight and serious face here.

Ronald Reagan did indeed put that phrase on the map for many Americans.

On the serious side. I did mean what I stated in my post above. Most of us want to be left alone...by almost everyone and particularly by government. We don't think government can decide our private affairs as well as can we and for our own purposes.
And gun ownership is only one facet of this "Privateness/Private Affairs.

Thanks for the laugh,
Orangetom