[Macho's ONLY!] A gun is a VERY WEAK attitude to carry! Whats the matter with you? Be a Man OK!

reply to post by Pervius


True their are situations like that which would be required. But i hope for your sake you dont pull out your gun if you and another man got i and disagreement or road rage incident and he puts up his dukes. Been many a people that went to prison for shooting unarmed men when their was no need to or because they were scared of duking it out.

You know what, now days people act in irrational ways.
If confronted by someone, in the world today, if drawing my weapon will stop them and make them think about what they are doing, it provides the ability to withdraw.
I have the right to protect myself. If you come to attack me and you are unarmed, sounds like you chose the wrong person to mess with.

reply to post by macman


Yep and when you go to prison where their are NO guns we will see how long you last

reply to post by ker2010


A fight can turn fatal even if the person is only attacking you with their fists. My uncle's biological father accidentally killed a man in a bar fight. He punched the guy in the face, the guy fell down and hit his head on the curb. The man died just a few minutes later due to enternal bleeding.

People that think when a person gets in to a fight all that happens is they get a black eye and a bloody lip are seriously misinformed. People end up dead, crippled, or worse because of fist fights. That is why many states list threat of serious bodily injury as an acceptable factor in using lethal force.

If some Brock Lesner looking guy has me on the ground and is pounding on my ribs. I might shoot him. A broken rib can kill. If I get in to a fight and I get beat, but I don't fear for permenant damage or death, then I am not pulling my gun. A punch to the nose should not be met with gun fire. In almost every state that would be murder. Repeatedly getting kicked in the head can very well justify lethal force in many states. The potential for brain damage and death are severe enough to warant extreme measures.

You are right though a gun is nothing to brag about. Owning a gun should be like training in martial arts. It should be something you do with the intention of protecting your life and the lives of others. It isn't something you broadcast to the world in hopes of intimidating others or to stroke your ego.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by ker2010

 

A punch to the nose should not be met with gun fire. In almost every state that would be murder. Repeatedly getting kicked in the head can very well justify lethal force in many states. The potential for brain damage and death are severe enough to warant extreme measures.

You are right though a gun is nothing to brag about. Owning a gun should be like training in martial arts. It should be something you do with the intention of protecting your life and the lives of others. It isn't something you broadcast to the world in hopes of intimidating others or to stroke your ego.

Then we agree

What an interesting perspective you, or...it has on guns.
This is a most unique Prtrie dish here, but who's science experiment is it?
I will flag this thread as i believe everyone should read this, it is quite the read, and a tribute to awakening.
Btw i am pro gun, i enjoy killing that my offspring thrive, i also enjoy just spending as many rounds as fast as i can at times.
Does this make me macho?
Well that depends if i am wearing my boots or my tennis shoes.

Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by macman

 

Yep and when you go to prison where their are NO guns we will see how long you last

Depends on the State. If i am attacked and I fear for my life and safety, I can respond with force.
It also depends on how well you, as a victim of an attack, can verbalize your fears.
Man who attacked me was of larger build then I, both fists where balled in a fist, he was yelling "I'm going to kick your butt" and there was no one there to help me.
No issue in UT and most states don't have the ridicules cowarding laws like CA.

Some of these comments are surprising to say the least.

I don't fist fight nor do I get into confrontations - I use words to deescalate them and have never had to use my weapon (I have CCW permit) to resolve an issue. I'll do a lot even say - "yeah you are too much man for me", "you are right I'm a pussy", etc. I don't care if a dip # who wants to relive his glory days of high school wants to scrap... I have nothing to prove to anyone.

If you are getting into fist fights after the age of 15 you have issues plain and simple.

That said; if someone regardless of his size assaults me I am going to assume that he intends to kill me and he had better hope he does before I can get my weapon out and shoot him. I don't have time to determine if the guy is the incarnation of chuck Norris or Jacky Chan nor am I going to wait till it's too late to figure that out.

I am going to reduce the threat to the lowest possible level as quickly as possible which is to say have the enemy laying prone and bleeding uncontrollably.

There are no "playground rules" for honor for adults in a fight - I don't and won't "fight" someone for some kind of badge of manliness - I only reduce threats.

You can tout your manliness all you want but having been in SF for most of my military career I can tell you this; he who fights fair fights no more....

I learned some unarmed stuff but I will never use it unless I am naked in an empty room because the first rule of hand to hand is to remember almost anything is harder than your hand.

I have never had the occasion to "tussle" with another grown man outside of combat for any reason since I was about 15 years old. I did take knife from a PDF guy at a roadblock during Just Cause but that was after he'd been shot so he wasn't much of a fight at all - couple jabs to the leg wound and he surrendered pretty quick.

So once a person raises a hand to me he will get a face full of .45 and a warning – once… I’m going to ask him if he wants to fight me or kill me…

First I'll laugh and explain fighting is for the playground - and that I haven't fought a man since I was 15 years old. Then I'll advise him to not bringing his fist or a knife to a gun fight is not a smart move...and go from there

If he says he wants to kill me I’ll take him at his word and assume he can do it and blow him away.

I'll fire a warning shot if he advances...into the ground so it can be recovered for evidence.

Then he gets the .45 in the face with the "look at me - you think I won't?" "You won't be the first..."

reply to post by Golf66


Yep yep, star for you.
Same attitude from my defense tactics instructors.
My job is to go home, plain and simple.
Fair fights are for boxing and wrestling matches.
Doom on those that come to fight me unprepared.

Originally posted by Golf66
Some of these comments are surprising to say the least.

I don't fist fight nor do I get into confrontations - I use words to deescalate them and have never had to use my weapon (I have CCW permit) to resolve an issue. I'll do a lot even say - "yeah you are too much man for me", "you are right I'm a pussy", etc. I don't care if a dip # who wants to relive his glory days of high school wants to scrap... I have nothing to prove to anyone.

If you are getting into fist fights after the age of 15 you have issues plain and simple.

That said; if someone regardless of his size assaults me I am going to assume that he intends to kill me and he had better hope he does before I can get my weapon out and shoot him. I don't have time to determine if the guy is the incarnation of chuck Norris or Jacky Chan nor am I going to wait till it's too late to figure that out.

I am going to reduce the threat to the lowest possible level as quickly as possible which is to say have the enemy laying prone and bleeding uncontrollably.

There are no "playground rules" for honor for adults in a fight - I don't and won't "fight" someone for some kind of badge of manliness - I only reduce threats.

You can tout your manliness all you want but having been in SF for most of my military career I can tell you this; he who fights fair fights no more....

I learned some unarmed stuff but I will never use it unless I am naked in an empty room because the first rule of hand to hand is to remember almost anything is harder than your hand.

I have never had the occasion to "tussle" with another grown man outside of combat for any reason since I was about 15 years old. I did take knife from a PDF guy at a roadblock during Just Cause but that was after he'd been shot so he wasn't much of a fight at all - couple jabs to the leg wound and he surrendered pretty quick.

So once a person raises a hand to me he will get a face full of .45 and a warning – once… I’m going to ask him if he wants to fight me or kill me…

First I'll laugh and explain fighting is for the playground - and that I haven't fought a man since I was 15 years old. Then I'll advise him to not bringing his fist or a knife to a gun fight is not a smart move...and go from there

If he says he wants to kill me I’ll take him at his word and assume he can do it and blow him away.

I'll fire a warning shot if he advances...into the ground so it can be recovered for evidence.

Then he gets the .45 in the face with the "look at me - you think I won't?" "You won't be the first..."

edit on 22/2/2011 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

If your waving your gun around thinking it makes you look cool after 15 you have issues as well buddy.

Oh Jesus H Christ. Thats one reason america is so screwed up. You got teenagers getting in fights one gets his butt kicked and instead of taking it like a man runs and gets a gun and blows the victors head off. Same mentality as a street gang your no different. You dont realize your not the only one who owns a gun and if my goal is to kill you ill shoot you in the back before you even have time to draw your weapon. After all their is no honor or fair fights right? So ill just shoot you when you turn to walk away :|



Just like what happened in my home town 2 years ago. Guy known for being a obnoxious asshat in clubs gets thrown out for trying to start fights with people. Goes gets gun drives by shoots and kills 2 innocent people.

How many everyday normal people or trained mma fights go out looking to beat someone up? None that I know of.. I dont think you guys have to worry about a Brock Lesnar or Bas Rutten starting a fight with you.

My point is if me and you are standing in line and I think you broke in front of me. You say differently and we started to tussle, what are you gonna do? Pull out your gun and shoot me ? End up in prison for shooting a unarmed man then we will see how tough you are with no gun being Tyrone's little b*&^% the rest of your life.

Thats what it sure sounds like bud.

You trigger happy gung ho people who think this is the wild west and your Pat Garrett is whats wrong with guns. Not the guns themselves.

reply to post by ker2010


There is a major difference between the 15year old getting his butt whooped, and coming back with a gun as compared to self defense as stated.
(Head Slap repeatedly)

As for teenage boys fighting? So what. Fists to fists, one on one, I see no harm.

reply to post by macman


Ok let me rephrase that, said teenager is packing and shoots unarmed teenager when they get in altercation... thats what you guys seem to be justifying

A) I try to rob you (gun justified)

B) I come at you with a deadly weapon knife, bat, gun etc (gun justified)

C) Multiple attackers coming at you from all sides (gun justified)

D) Big crazed 250 lb drugged up man beating you within a inch of your life, can tell he is trying to kill you, you fear death (gun justified)

E) Road rage incident, breaking in line etc. We argue and start to fight. Its just a fist fight. You pull out gun and shoot me.. (Not justified)

I think the laws in most states would agree too.

Originally posted by ker2010If your waving your gun around thinking it makes you look cool after 15 you have issues as well buddy.

Actually, I have never had to pull my weapon (not gun) from its holster...and I have not been in a fight since 15 other than in the Army.

Originally posted by ker2010You dont realize your not the only one who owns a gun and if my goal is to kill you ill shoot you in the back before you even have time to draw your weapon. After all their is no honor or fair fights right? So ill just shoot you when you turn to walk away

If you have a gun and are initiating a fist fight then you are just friggin stupid because the presence of the gun with an assault weather drawn or holstered is a deadly threat and justifies lethal response. It is fairly obvious to the trained who is carrying a weapon and who is not. No one with a CCW is going to start a fist fight while packing because they will lose that CCW in about 10 seconds after the police show up to never have one again.

If you draw first and win then it’s just murder and while I'll be dead you will likely be as well within a few years. If I have to draw on you for being a douche bag pugilist with an attitude you can bet I won't be turning my back on you. You will be the one walking away or being carted away or we can explain to the cops how you wanted to "beat me up" and I defended myself by using a weapon which resulted in no one being hurt. I might be cautioned I might not - here where I live I bet not since that is the point of a CCW permit to begin with to protect yourself and your property.

Originally posted by ker2010 How many everyday normal people or trained mma fights go out looking to beat someone up? None that I know of.. I dont think you guys have to worry about a Brock Lesnar or Bas Rutten starting a fight with you.

I am under no obligation to determine a man's skills or intent when I make the decision to defend myself in the state of Missouri. The law here is based on the presumption of threat and I am under no circumstances required to give ground nor am I limited to the level of force that you chose to use. I only have to be threatened.

Originally posted by ker2010 My point is if me and you are standing in line and I think you broke in front of me. You say differently and we started to tussle, what are you gonna do?

The tussle will never happen...once you advance into my space you will be at the point of Mr. .45. If you persist in assaulting me I will be justified in shooting you - end of story. I do not live on the left coast and being a thug here is frowned upon. The only decision I would have to make is do I want to kill you or wound you and how afraid or distraught I need to appear when the cops come.

Besides, you are talking about fighting over line cutting as a grown man - damn, just do us all a favor and shoot yourself.

Originally posted by ker2010Pull out your gun and shoot me ? End up in prison for shooting a unarmed man then we will see how tough you are with no gun being Tyrone's little b*&^% the rest of your life.

Except for the prison part you got it - I will pull it and then if you assault me I will kill you. Your assault is a threat and I can meet that threat as I see necessary, I don’t have to wait for you to actually pick something up to try and kill me or to assess that you can do it with your hands.

If need be - I am very sure I can argue in court that I view getting pummeled in the face with a fist while sporting several pins, screws and retained medical devices is a threat to my life as my doctor (and likely others) will attest as well.

See you never know who is on the other end of your macho rage. I’ll show the MRI’s, and x-rays of the screws and pins and tell the story of how I got them in the service of my country and the thug who just wanted to “kick my ass a bit” was belligerent and I didn’t know what else to do and how I feared for my life because repetitive trauma to the C-spine from wrestling or blunt force trauma poses a real danger to my life and or limb as even a small amount of pressure in the wrong spot could paralyze me.

You, or your family's lawyers more likely can argue that you never could have known that and you just liked to fight a little…and that you were just you know being a man and no reasonable person should have to assume that starting a fight could hurt someone seriously...

Mine will argue that you should not pick fights with armed men and here where I live I am about 99.00 certain my very conservative farmer type friends and neighbors will take about 20 minutes to deliberate to find you messed with the wrong person.

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Originally posted by Xcellante
I agree. I for one never understood this whole gun thing anyway.

I would like to think I'm more unpredictable and probably a bit more dangerous than those with guns.

Growing up here in Northern Ireland, we were brought up to believe those who wield a gun are cowards! Never fear the gun. Just the moron behind it. And like any moron you can out-think, out-wit easily. The last time someone pulled a gun on me was rushed to hospital with 3rd degree burns to their face and neck. Wonderful things aerosol cans and lighters

There are plenty of ways to incapacitate any asailant with a gun. You just have to be inventive! Think of it... By the time they cock the hammer, aim, squeeze... That gives you roughly 3.688 seconds to do what you need to do to get out of the situation. Provided you don't freeze like a statue and poop your pants!

Your posts makes no sense. What argument do you have against guns? You seem to oppose guns for the sake of opposing guns. As you're still suggesting physical violence that could result in serious injury.

Most people against guns are Pacifist scum. You clearly aren't, so where's the issue? Using a gun is easier than making home made flame throwers, and less dangerous too.

Guns being for cowards is state-propoganda. To keep civilians vulnerable and reliable on the state

Originally posted by Quasar_La-Zar
That said I always carry pocket knives now

That's against the law in Britain too. Infact if you stabbed someone, even a minor wound, in your own house, you'd be charged as a criminal and probably see jail time.

Knifes are for cowards, you see. And we should let criminals do what they want because the state will save us

Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by macman

 

Ok let me rephrase that, said teenager is packing and shoots unarmed teenager when they get in altercation... thats what you guys seem to be justifying

A) I try to rob you (gun justified)

B) I come at you with a deadly weapon knife, bat, gun etc (gun justified)

C) Multiple attackers coming at you from all sides (gun justified)

D) Big crazed 250 lb drugged up man beating you within a inch of your life, can tell he is trying to kill you, you fear death (gun justified)

E) Road rage incident, breaking in line etc. We argue and start to fight. Its just a fist fight. You pull out gun and shoot me.. (Not justified)

I think the laws in most states would agree too.

edit on 22-2-2011 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)

Um, yes??!!
Who said it was justified in cases like E? No one.

reply to post by NadaCambia


One has to go to public schools to become sufficiently educated to where one votes into effect, or cheers on laws which inhibit the ordinary commerce of working law abiding peoples in default to the criminal element who dont seem to be affected by these same laws. This is the heigth of mans natural intelligence ...gnostic wise man thinking. The very apex of man's glory.

In otherwords one has to go to public school to install such stupid laws as they have in England and thus subsidize and facillitate the criminal element. This also means that much of the criminal element is in government.

And someone wants to install these same stupid laws here in the States..to make us Englishmen. No thanks.
We are Yanks...not Englishmen.

Whenever you increase the RISK factor to the criminal elements..including government....they quickly migrate eleswhere to easier Prey.
Common sense.

This leaves one free and with liberty to persue their daily commerce.

And being suitably armed is a deterent to all criminal elements..even government. Common Sense again.

An Armed people are a polite people. This can never be said of most armed governments. Armed governments tend to be rude and obnoxious towards their unarmed peoples. Common sense again.

First become armed with some common sense education..... and not pipe dreams.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


Well said and actually the reasons for English Common laws of self protection when first written! They of course were the basis for the Second Amendment as to protection of self and country! The English have since done their best to destroy these principles!

Several here are talking about Men versus Men who are basically healthy! They ignore the dangerous multiplying aspect of having children with you or your wife with you should you come into contact with more than one perpetrator. The danger to you and your loved ones increases when you must protect from or meet more than one attacker. Macho has not one whit to do with ability in these situations. It is the brain and your maturity and training that has a chance to get an end result that gives you back your liberty! A firearm, legally carried, is the only answer. Remember when seconds count, the police are minutes away! (sometimes hours)

Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

Well said and actually the reasons for English Common laws of self protection when first written! They of course were the basis for the Second Amendment as to protection of self and country! The English have since done their best to destroy these principles!

Several here are talking about Men versus Men who are basically healthy! They ignore the dangerous multiplying aspect of having children with you or your wife with you should you come into contact with more than one perpetrator. The danger to you and your loved ones increases when you must protect from or meet more than one attacker. Macho has not one whit to do with ability in these situations. It is the brain and your maturity and training that has a chance to get an end result that gives you back your liberty! A firearm, legally carried, is the only answer. Remember when seconds count, the police are minutes away! (sometimes hours)

Zindo

Zindo,

Indeed Sir..Indeed!!

I have on my private book shelf a copy of the 6th Edition of Blacks Law Dictionary. If one goes through certain sections of this dictionary there are references going back to English Common Law as well as precedent cases here Stateside where English Common Law was referenced.
In England, as well as here stateside, much of this has gone by the wayside in lieu of today's feel good type laws which put power in the hands of government and away from the peoples.

Strange as this seems Zindo..I have little use for Wildlife in its natural habitat...neither two legged nor four legged wildlife. However I can understand and at times sympathize with the motivations of four legged wildlife better than I can tolerate the conduct of two legged varieties. But that is just me Zindo.
I am not keen on government using/misusing its power to cultivate Wildlife..in lieu of ordinary peoples going about their daily business/commerce....private business.

I do however believe in liberty, private property and the liberty to acquire private property by one's honest labors.
And labor too is property. The process by which this is done is sometimes called commerce.

Self protection of ones private properties and persons was implicit in this common law for the very purpose of facilitating such commerce. For it is common sense that if one is not secure in ones persons that commerce will not be facilitated and the nation will not prosper.

English Common Law was the basis for more than Just the Second Amendment...although the 2nd Amendment is indeed important to us as a fundamental right. So too it is with the rest of the nine Amendments. Historical events have born this out to those who have more than today's public standard education and they still have the historical knowledge untainted by public schools...and wise men educations.

As I have said before...Predators "do" have sufficient education/common sense to go where the pickings are easier....including governments. And this is historically demonstrable. Shame that governments have lost sight of this "Common Sense" and tend towards subsidizing the predators. Shame also that Predators (two legged) have not the common sense to earn a living by honest commerce.

Indeed Zindo..to have liberty and freedom also means being safe and secure in ones family/home/properties. And macho has not one whit to do with it.



I know a man who was robbed at gunpoint in front of his home some time back. He could not let these peoples know who was in his home or that it was his home, They could not be allowed to enter his home.

After robbing him when they told him to turn and walk away towards a hedge of bushes...he thought this was it..the end. But nonetheless he determined that these Wildlifes could not be allowed to know it was his home nor enter therein.
And he was unarmed. There was nothing macho about this. He was willing to bite the bullet to protect those in his home. Fortunately they just wanted to get away without him seeing their license plate. But to him he thought it might be the end. This man had put his life and safety on the line many times for his monies. He was not afraid. There was nothing macho about it. He simply made a decision on the spur of the moment and was prepared to live or die by it and to protect others as do many of us ..daily.

And many men/ males do this every day..in their jobs and occupations..never known, never seen, never understood by those who are the beneficiaries of this RISK Taking. Nothing macho about this. It is simply an extension of disciplines learned and earned. Not macho. Maturity also has a great deal to do with this...correct.

Well Zindo..hope this makes some sense. Thanks for reminding me about English Common Law. And I agree..the English have since worked very hard to destroy these principles and all the chaos has followed. Another generation and there will not be an England.
I am in contact by Amateur Radio as well as by certain blogs with Englishmen who are really torqued about the direction their nation is tending. Some of them are really PISSSSSSED OFF!!!! But they are finding few outlets to voice their views in their heavily rigged system of government and media. Their liberty is fading rapidly.

No desire here to become an Englishman..or a Brit. I'm a bloody Yank and proud of it.

Hope all is well with you and your house,
Thanks,
Orangetom