$100,000+ Salaries for School Teachers?

Reply to post by intelinside451

OP, bravo! I personally feel as though you are correct. I have a 6 year old in 1st grade, andrecently I had to hire a tutor(paid) to make sure he passes the state required testing at end of year. I don't understand why I am having to pay someone to do his teachers job. He is not a stupid kid, not by a long shot. But requires hands on and someone to explain to him his classwork. I would if I had time but I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week. All it would take his teacher is five minutes during school, and I wouldn't have to pay someone to do her job. Yet at parent-teacher conference she blamed it on my child and not her lack ofwork ethic.

Not to mention, american students are way below average on the international education levels. I believe pay should be based upon student performance. Then maybe they would put in more effort to educate. Just my 2 cents


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by crimvelvet

 

No, I didn't miss it. Who do you think bought and raped those smaller corporations? Unions? The greenmailers like T. Boone Pickens, with the whole-hearted cooperation of banks and bigger corporations. They are the one who chose to outsource, they weren't forced to by the government or by labor.

Your comment trigger a couple of interesting thoughts.

When I read up on leveraged buyout I ran across these interesting tidbit:
the 1982 Supreme Court decision striking down state antitakeover laws

...many states adopted amendments to their corporate codes that codified directors' fiduciary duties, so-called "constituency statutes". In general, these provisions made it clear that a director need not "maximize shareholder value.".....lawprofessors.typepad.com... ....

Now think about it . The whole idea behind the ideology of "capitalism" is to take some of you excess wealth and invest it to build more wealth. For example a farmer will "invest" some of his wealth on a second well and an irrigation system, a new green house or tractor or barn or a superior bull or ram. The whole idea of "maximizing shareholder value" via literal destruction of the corporation for a large short term profit is the exact opposite of that ideology and is also not in the best interests of the normal everyday stock holder.

So the second question is why the "stock holders" are voting to tear apart the company they invested their money in and that is where it gets really really interesting. (In most leveraged buyouts, the raiders do not gain 51% of the shares, they gain enough shares to force a vote instead)

Apacheman, you make another comment:

I think if you really peek behind the curtain of dummy corporations you'll find the same group of families constantly finagling the banking laws in their favor, finding a different way to loot the economy about every generation or so, to set up the youngsters in business, sort of a rite of passage.

Guess what the answer to my second question shows you are correct.

Let's take everyone favorite corporation Monsanto
When you look into it 85% of Monsanto is held by mutual funds and Institutional(financial) Holders. Divisions of Fidelity hold total shares: 39,127,443 or 7.15% The founding Johnson family controls (and there for VOTES) most of Fidelity and Edward C Johnson 3rd is chairman of the group. That was just the first pass.

On second pass I found this:

Members of the family of Edward C. Johnson 3d, Chairman of FMR LLC, are the predominant owners, directly or through trusts, of Series B voting common shares of FMR LLC.... FMR LLC and an investment adviser registered under Section 203 of the Investment Advisers Act of 1940, is the beneficial owner of 26,388,306 shares or 4.816% of the Common Stock outstanding of Monsanto Company

...FMR LLC's beneficial ownership includes 191,725 shares, or 0.035%, of the Common Stock stock outstanding of Monsanto Company, beneficially owned through Strategic Advisers, Inc.

....Edward C. Johnson 3d and FMR LLC, through its control of PGALLC [Pyramis Global Advisors, LLC], each has sole dispositive power over 262,080 shares and sole power to vote or to direct the voting of 262,080 shares of Common Stock owned by the institutional accounts or funds...
Power of Attorney to vote Fidelity Management & Research Company (FMR LLC0 shares in Monsanto

This means although members of the general public bought and paid for the shares in Monsanto the Johnson's VOTE those shares for a healthy slice of the pie!

And then we take it a step further:

WASHINGTON -- A recent analysis of the 2007 financial markets of 48 countries has revealed that the world's finances are in the hands of just a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations. This is the first clear picture of the global concentration of financial power, and point out the worldwide financial system's vulnerability as it stood on the brink of the current economic crisis....
www.insidescience.org...

So yes, the control is in "the hands of just a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations"

Here are strategic profiles of 11 of the principal companies that constitute the Anglo-Dutch-Swiss food cartel. LaRouche and F. William Engdahl show how through "incest" and the IPC, created in 1987 explicitly to drive home the GATT agriculture rules of WTO, an international Cartel has set out to gain complete control of our food supply. With the willing help of bought and paid for politicians of course.

I think if anyone checked they would find the same dividing up of the "world pie" by many different cartels, each with a market niche. Then take a look at the board of directors and you will see the same names over and over.

When I was young I thought teachers needed to be paid better so they would care more about what they are doing. Now I am aware of the teachers unions, and the NEA. First, the NEA has been a tool for Socialism, and probably was created for that purpose, and even on their site they proudly proclaim their support for Obamacare(more Socialism). Then there's the actuall stuff that's being taught. No more is the emphasis on teaching the elements of math, English, and American history. Now the curriculum is full of programs using values clarification(designed with the express purpose of putting a wedge between children and their parents values), and outcome based education, plus sex education involving promotion of alternative sexual mores and practices. If you dont believe me, why did this Prez appoint a member of GELSEN to be the school safety czar? I could go on and on about all this corruption of the school system before we even get into what's really going on with this protest. It's directly tied into the protests in the Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, and elsewhere. The labor unions have been involved in these protests and even someone in SEIU posted proudly on Craigs list that they were involved in the Egypt protests. It's all connected to the International Socialist movement.
The public school system was designed to implement the ideas of John Dewey, and the late Professor Antony Sutton explains the agenda here www.american-buddha.com...
This is all orchestrated by the Intl Socialist movement

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Sorry but that's nonsense. While i agree people should educate themselves of the various laws they don't need a thorough understanding of criminal law because a lawyer acts on your behalf to make sure all laws are followed. Yes they specialise in certain areas and they do that so they know the law back to front, better than your average person could hope to. The average person won't break the law because it's all very obvious, not killing people, not stealing, not growing drugs, these are all easy things to follow without an education. All most people need to be educated on is their rights during stops, searches, arrests and interviews. Remaining silent is the best strategy in most cases as the police rely heavily upon confessions. This is also where innocent people get sent to prison as they crack under the intense psychological pressure and just admit to crimes they haven't committed to get out of the situation they're in.

The whole legal system is corrupt because of this. How can you argue the law without knowing it? How can you trust that what the lawyer and judge are saying are lawful (not legal thats different) and accurate? The judge works for the state...normally its the state who puts you on trial, no such thing as a fair trial.
The whole point is...if you were taught law...you could avoid a lot of hassle and expense if the police did try and arrest you for something unlawfully.

Not growing drugs?? since when was that a law?? A statute isnt a law but we all know that right...perfect example of ignorance to law And the exact reason it should be taught.

During the victorian period many people couldn't read or write so i'm sorry but your argument is flawed, and how many parents would bother to educate their children? There are council estates packed with people in the UK who think that education is worthless, and that's also where most crime comes from. There is a direct correlation between low education standards and crime.

We arent in victorian times...theres a thing called the internet ya know
My argument is far from flawed. There were many people that could read and write which never attended school, as there are today in society.
The low education standards and crime is total bunk to. Who commits more crime...joe blogs who steals a bottle of cider from a supermarket....or Bernard Madoff who steals billions from individuals??
You dont see uneducated people pulling off massive fraud....or paying to have competition bumped off.
Just because its not reported doesnt mean it doesnt happen...the biggest criminals are in government, banking and natural resources...im guessing they all are pretty educated.

Maybe not but it gave you the knowledge to take your education further. Imagine going to college without any understanding of covalent bonds or basic algebra, it would take a year to get you up to speed.

My further education was in mechanical engineering...i had no use for any of it. The french classes never helped me make parts, the music classes didnt give me a fine eye for detail..etc etc

You see education as the greatest thing since sliced bread....i see it as a waste of time and money for the most part.
French, German, Spanish, Art, Cooking, religious education...all worthless subjects which are a complete waste of everyones time and tax money.


EDIT: Id just like to add.....many entrepreneur's came from council estates and have made millions with little or no education.( Alan Sugar for example...worth £750 million)
Education is not always a precursor for sucess

reply to post by Bunyipboy

It is interesting to see that in an age where our civil liberities and even our quality of life are being erroded away so significantly, the current level of unrest in the world wide population must be causing them, the ruling elite, a great deal of concern.

The middle east today, Australia, the US and UK tomorrow?

As I said in a post just before you, the Elite are such long range planners it is truly frightening. They seem to think in terms of Dynasties and Generations. They have not only planned for "unrest in the world wide population" they probably CAUSED it! Actually they have TRAINED activists to think only in terms of protests. I explain to college students what is happening with the Federal Reserve and the first response is "We need to protest" They are so well trained, they remind me of Pavlov's dogs!

For examples of how the Elite maneuver Nations into war, read: Days of Infamy and The War on Terrorism Then read my thread: Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack with the other recent threads on ATS in mind.

Heck why do you think Bush came up with the Patriot Act not to mention the U.S. Northern Command: Canada Command established new bilateral Civil Assistance Plan allowing Canadian troops to be used to "respond quickly to the other nation's requests for military support of civil authorities,” and the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 repealed Posse Comitatus.

And before that Clinton wrote Executive Order #12919 :

First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919:

10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US;
10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private;
10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment;
10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires;
11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private;
11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft;
11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds;
11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private;
11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency").

These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items... www.millennium-ark.net...

Remember these are the people who Bankrolled the Bolshievik Revolution! Euopean and American bankers who literally created the "Cold War"... and profited from it.

Interesting comments from all. I will agree that money is many times spent foolishly. Let me give you an example. In our school district last year the schoolboard decided to cut staff and do away with any teacher raises



















Interesting comments from all. I do agree that money is many times spent unwisely by school boards(boards not teachers). Our local school district decided to cut staff and not give raises to any teachers ( teachers raises no, Administrators yes). While this was going on, the board decided to build a 3 million dollar indoor practice football field!!!! This facility is not for public use just for the sports teams. I live in a very small rural community and couldn't believe this waste of money!! Is the public outraged? No they think its wonderful! What a shame when you only have a handful of concerned parents show up for conference meetings but on Friday night the whole damn town shows up for a sporting event. Last time I checked our country needed more doctors,scientists and engineerers, not quarterbacks and receivers. If you' re a teacher and try to give the star QB a failing grade because they earned it, you'll be getting a visit from a "concerned principal and coach". Do the same thing to a non-athlete and no one seems to care. Just another example of out of whack priorities. Former teacher commenting here. Thanks for the chance to comment.

reply to post by ClearlyAwake

You wait and see when your kids are glued to computers all day, everyday "learning" with a single "teacher" to "facilitate" 50 plus students. You'll have a bunch of shildren that really have no critical thinking skills and a lack of creative thoughts. They'll be little machines, ready to do what they're told.

That is the goal of "Progressive Education"

...John Dewey who is usually characterized as the father of progressive education....

Dewey's philosophy had evolved from Hegelian idealism to socialist materialism, and the purpose of the school was to show how education could be changed to produce little socialists and collectivists instead of little capitalists and individualists. It was expected that these little socialists, when they became voting adults, would dutifully change the American economic system into a socialist one.

In order to do so he analyzed the traditional curriculum that sustained the capitalist, individualistic system and found what he believed was the sustaining linchpin -- that is, the key element that held the entire system together: high literacy. To Dewey, the greatest obstacle to socialism was the private mind that seeks knowledge in order to exercise its own private judgment and intellectual authority. High literacy gave the individual the means to seek knowledge independently. It gave individuals the means to stand on their own two feet and think for themselves. This was detrimental to the "social spirit" needed to bring about a collectivist society..... www.ordination.org...

People reject the idea that this is the real goal of "Progressive Education" but all one has to do is LOOK at what has happened to education.

"For 10 years, William Schmidt, a statistics professor at Michigan State University, has looked at how U.S. students stack up against students in other countries in math and science. ... by 12th-grade, we're at the bottom of the heap, outperforming only two countries, Cyprus and South Africa."
:Source

You do not have a system deteriorate to that extent without malice afore thought and John Dewey's influence was certainly malicious in regard to the welfare of students and the USA. He set up a system to produce good little worker bees for the Corporate cartels who are very happy to embrace "socialism" and twist it into Neofeudalism!


David Rockefeller: "..the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." Translated he wants the elite to rule the world without input from the serfs.

“What unites the many different forms of Socialism.. is the conception that socialism (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) must be handed down to the grateful masses in one form or another, by a ruling elite which is not subject to their control...” marxists.org

In reality "Capitalism" died a century ago and what we are seeing now is the fight over who will be the "intellectual elite" in control of the "socialist" government that decides everything for us.

If you find that an uplifting feeling do not forget on the one side you have the elite like the Rockefellers who are behind the eugenics and on the other you have people like this:

GRATHWOHL INTERVIEW
Grathwohl: I brought up the subject of what’s going to happen after we take over the government. You know, we become responsible for administrating, you know, 250 million people. And there was no answer. No one had given any thought to economics. How are you going to clothe and feed these people? ....

They also believed that their immediate responsibility would be to protect against what they called the counter-revolution. And they felt that this counter-revolution could best be guarded against by creating and establishing re-education in the Southwest where we would take all of the people who needed to be re-educated into the new way of thinking and teach them how things were going to be. I asked, “Well, what is going to happen to those people that we can’t re-educate, that are die-hard capitalists?”

And the reply was that they’d have to be eliminated and when I pursued this further, they estimated that they’d have to eliminate 25 million people in these re-education centers.

And when I say eliminate, I mean kill 25 million people. I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of whom have graduate degrees from Columbia and other well-known educational centers and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people and they were dead serious. Larry Grathwohl and Frank Reagan, ed., Bringing Down America (New Rochelle, New York: Arlington
House, 1976).

I find both sets scare the C.... out of me!

What we have in the US is not an "Educational System" is an "Indoctrination System".

How it works;

They take kids away from there parents in their formative years, for atleast 5 days a week 8 hours a day from ages 5 to 18.

The Government madndates what can and cannot be taught. Teachers relay the information the government wants taught to the student, and only when the student can tell the teacher correctly what the teacher has told them are they rewarded with good grades.

If the student is successful at regurgitating the information that is presented to them, they are then allowed to go on to higher education(college) where the system again repeats.

They system is not set up to turn out intellegent, innovative, free thinking members of society, It is set up to only reward and advance those members of society who will willing not challenge the propaganda that is spoon fed to them.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

...Most people don't need to understand the law tbh, if they get in trouble they can hire a lawyer to do that for them. But schools right now do teach things which benefit you throughout your life, being able to add and ubtract must surely be useful to you in some way, as is the ability to write and make yourself understood....

I agree math as well as reading and writing skills are very important. I would also add students today should take four years of Science in high school. Bio, Chemistry, Physics and geology. Students also should study the Constitution and Federalist papers as well as the more important laws passed since then.

You make the statement "Most people don't need to understand the law tbh, if they get in trouble they can hire a lawyer to do that for them."

BOY are you WRONG!!! If you do not know the basics of law, especially Contract law, you are in REAL trouble. My husband and I could have saved our selves $500,000 or more (Our life savings) if we had had a better understanding of the law.

Also never ever depend on a lawyer. I went through FIVE lawyers, who were actually in cohoots with the "other side" before I finally found an honest one!

I took two law courses at the community college for about $200 each and it is the best investment I ever made!

reply to post by AntiNWO

The difference here being that private schools are many times more innovative in dealing with troubled students than public schools. You can blame the government all you want for this, but the fact remains that private school competition encourages creativity in dealing with every kind of challenge that your fertile imagination can come up with.

Amen to that, I know of THREE guys who were so much trouble the public schools could not handle them so they were placed in private schools. All three did much better in the private schools and went on to college and a good life.

Public schools ignore students that are troubled or as was done to a neighbor's little girl, drug them out of their minds so they sit in class like zombies!

Ritalin is given to millions of children every year, with the amount growing. Psychiatry has convinced a majority of the public that up to 20% of our children are "mentally ill" and need these drugs to correct their "brain imbalances". Strangely, the behaviors the psychiatrists cite as evidence of the disease have been around as long as children have been getting into cookie jars...
www.sntp.net...

reply to post by intelinside451


I am not sure about the salaries, that should come with one proving oneself to be an elite teacher. But, I do know, that education should be the number one top priority no matter what. Money should always go to education first. No exceptions. Back in my day, education was forced down your throat. I am glad for this, as it has improved thinking and problem solving abilities. Schools are run down, and to many times teachers and principles are quick to give up on a student. Which they're solution always seems to be to throw them out on the street.

Originally posted by PlanterZ
Well, my mom is a second grade teacher and I think that all teachers deserve this pay. Teaching is a very tough and time consuming job and unless you've done it, or know someone who has done it, you never really know how much work goes into it. My mother is constantly working on lesson plans, grading papers, writing reports, coping with the stress factor that comes with the job.

I also believe that teaching is one of the most crucial jobs out there. Come on, what would you do without teachers? They deserve that salary.

By the way, teaching is a "highly skilled job".

edit on 20-2-2011 by PlanterZ because: (no reason given)

Yeah but teachers are failing. It's like saying a surgeon should make big bucks because he/she saves peoples lives, while in reality almost half die or suffer serious complication because of gross negligence. If teachers want to make the big bucks they got to earn it through the only measure that counts, are kid's learning?

reply to post by Bunyipboy

....I really wish the people who say we are glorifies baby sitters would come and spend a day at school doing parent help.....

It depends on the school. My spouse taught 7th, 8th and 9th in Massachusetts and it was mostly a babysitting service. He has also taught here in the South and there is an attempt to actually teach.

He says the Unions and government are the major reason for bad education.

reply to post by Bob Down Under

I teach part time in detailed joinery building and constuction in Australia as well as run my own business and to be honest most school teachers have a breeze not like us Tech teachers and we are on half that salary and some.

We have to pick up the pieces after bad teaching through most high schools

As a former lab manager and present small business person I hardily agree with you. Rotten parenting coupled with bad teaching and a "you OWE me a living attitude" learned from the socialist loud mouths get real old real fast.

I am no fan of multinational corporations, but that does not give me the right to have a poor work ethic. If I made a "contract" to do the work for a set amount of pay then I am morally obligated to DO that work, not come in late, leave early and whine when my boss tells me to get to work.

And fountains of fruit punch for students. Hallways made of gold. Desks made of marble. Invest in education today folks! It's our future!

If teachers were paid according to merit, not union demands, it would work itself out.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

TOTAL COMPENSATION is just that.
A teacher does not get a vehicle? They are not required to drive from Salt Lake City to ST George for their work.
They don't get placed on 24 hour on call.
Do you want me to cry for them now, or later?
Bonuses? Then maybe they should not be a teacher. Cry now, or later?
I do not make $80 a year, never said I did. Where you by chance educated by one of these WI teachers?
Even if my COMPENSATION number was high, and should be lower, that just shoots your argument down even further.
By all accounts, I should be making more then the average teacher.
Again, boo hoo for the teachers. Do you want me to cry now, or later?
They are Govt employees, paid from tax dollars. The tax payer has spoken and you don't like it.
Maybe work where that's not the case.

Please spare me from the poor teacher routine. If they/you don't like it, go find another job. Instead of protesting and whining like a bunch of 5 year olds.

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

edit on 2/20/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)

macman, we work in roughly the same industry for all intents and purposes so I come in peace, but.... you come across as saying in each post that you are more skilled, more qualified than teachers so why do they earn more money than you?

I'm kind of guessing here you believe your credentials are of a much higher quality - these things are all subjective, your qualifications wouldn't make you a teacher, a teachers qualifications (unless highly specialised) wouldn't mean they could do your job. That doesn't make you in any way 'better', nor does it make you 'worse' - just a different job.

Also, you sound like you work in the private sector whereas teachers are in the public sector. Your wage may (and that's a big may) be artificially low as high demand for jobs = ability to pay less. That's a harsh economic fact, but a fact nonetheless.

Sit on my ass job, alright wise ass.
I have all of UT as my responsibility. From the most north tip bordering ID to the southern city of ST George.
I manage my switch site, and have weekly checks to all 35 COLOs. I am responsible for 50+ manhole locations and several thousands of miles of cable.
I manage not only the switch, but our transport equipment, long haul and backbone. I interact daily with about 6 different ISP companies. I run my own monitoring display viewing the entire state. I have daily reports to go trough for errors in all my equipment.
I have created the walk through and training docs for all news sales reps, nation wide and provide training for other techs as well, nationwide. I drove about 100k miles last year alone. I am at my office from 7am and my day doesn't end until about 5pm. About 75% of the customers here have my desk/cell phone, so yes they are my problem. The other 25% have the other techs info.

Sorry macman, are you saying the company you work for gives your personal phone details directly to 30k end users/consumers of their service for them to contact you directly (based on you saying 40K customers)? Really? No call centre between you and them? Pardon me, but that doesn't sound correct. If it is, then I'd think about working for a company that lets the desk handle the call and the appropriate level 2/3 staff take care of the issues reported.

reply to post by intelinside451


Usually I am very polite but dude, you're an idiot... now let me tell you why....

There are two reasons teachers can be viewed as not effective at their jobs. First, the teachers in the most populated areas, (inner city) have an extremely hard job because typically the classrooms are more crowded, there is not enough funding to get the proper supplies, the administration is apathetic when it comes to teachers concerns, and everything that your are asked to do is seemingly only for one standardized test near the end of the year which determines how much funding the school gets next year. Everyone is chasing statistics instead of trying to accomplish real education. We can thank Mr. Bush for "no child left behind" which is really no child gets ahead.

Second, when any potential employee considers working at a company, they always take into consideration compensation. The more you are willing to compensate, the more extremely talented people will want to pursue that position. If you are going to pay very little, well you'll get very little in return.

Now consider that as a teacher you get treated poorly by:
Parents
Administration
Students
and on top of everything you're only going to make 40K a year to work in dangerous neighborhoods.... what do you expect?

I speak from experience as up until recently I was myself a Math teacher at an inner city school. I was not fun. I tried hard, and I am not some complainer. The only reason I left really was because a kid tried to grab my wife's breasts (also a teacher in the school) in the hall way right in front of me just to get under my skin (he's the school's token bad kid), and when I told the principal what happened, he yelled at me for asking him to talk to the kid about it.

So really think about what you're saying. It takes a lot of education to be a good teacher. It also takes INFINITE PATIENCE to deal with the admins and kids everyday. Do you really want to make these people more miserable by paying them crap?

It's getting very tiresome rading about how evil the unions are just because the people bashing them don't have the same benefits.

That's the whole point of organized labor. To sit down with employers and AGREE to contract terms. Union workers work very hard and deserve evry last thing that they AGREED to. To say anything else is nothing but sour grapes.

Here's an idea. If you feel you're worth more than what your boss pays you.............organize or join a union and pay dues.
That's what they're there for. To prevent corporate America from keeping the working man down in an inferior state. This country has a wonderful history of organized labor and to assume that union workers are stealing when they collect on their benefits is seriously incorrect. They collect on what they agreed to. They are acting on the rights they fought for.

reply to post by loves a conspiricy

The whole legal system is corrupt because of this. How can you argue the law without knowing it? How can you trust that what the lawyer and judge are saying are lawful....

You can't

Anyone who actually TRUSTS a lawyer is a FOOL. I went through FIVE lawyers to find one who was not in cohoots with the other side. Remember YOUR lawyer is buddies with the OTHER lawyers and he is in it not because he has your best interests in mind but because he has HIS bank account in mind! The District Attorney is only interested in pushing as many cases through the system as he (actually it was a she) can because of the backlog. A friend of mind, who studied the law, strongly suggests getting a your own lawyer in any criminal case instead of relying on the DA. After my experience I very much agree.

Once I found an ethical lawyer, a very rare beast, I hustled my buns down to the nearest law library and READ the law and took notes. I was SHOCKED by how much I learned that the lawyer was unaware of. Not only that, but with me having done a lot of the research for him he cut me a great deal on the cost!