$100,000+ Salaries for School Teachers?

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
EVERYONE should know the law regardless if you plan on breaking it or not.
How many people are arrested or imprisoned because they dont know law?? A lawyer only knows part of the law...hence they arent judges.
We are bound by these laws...shouldnt we know them? Shouldnt we be taught how to be a law abiding citizen and how to avoid being on the wrong side of the law? The reason we are not is simple...crime makes the government and corperations big money. If people could fight the system on their own...there would be no system.

Sorry but that's nonsense. While i agree people should educate themselves of the various laws they don't need a thorough understanding of criminal law because a lawyer acts on your behalf to make sure all laws are followed. Yes they specialise in certain areas and they do that so they know the law back to front, better than your average person could hope to. The average person won't break the law because it's all very obvious, not killing people, not stealing, not growing drugs, these are all easy things to follow without an education.

All most people need to be educated on is their rights during stops, searches, arrests and interviews. Remaining silent is the best strategy in most cases as the police rely heavily upon confessions. This is also where innocent people get sent to prison as they crack under the intense psychological pressure and just admit to crimes they haven't committed to get out of the situation they're in.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I would have learnt how to read, write, add, subtract etc without the years at school.

Really? Well good for you however in the past many people who didn't have access to education couldn't do those things and that is why state education came into being.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
If you live in your native country and speak the native language you will learn how to read and write no problem if given some help by family members. I dont think it requires 16 years to learn how to speak and write english if your from an english speaking nation.

During the victorian period many people couldn't read or write so i'm sorry but your argument is flawed, and how many parents would bother to educate their children? There are council estates packed with people in the UK who think that education is worthless, and that's also where most crime comes from. There is a direct correlation between low education standards and crime.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I was never a fan of school...the last 4 years i rarely attended but still managed to attain good grades, kinda shows that the stuff being taught was of no use to me.

Maybe not but it gave you the knowledge to take your education further. Imagine going to college without any understanding of covalent bonds or basic algebra, it would take a year to get you up to speed.

Originally posted by PlanterZ
Well, my mom is a second grade teacher and I think that all teachers deserve this pay. Teaching is a very tough and time consuming job and unless you've done it, or know someone who has done it, you never really know how much work goes into it. My mother is constantly working on lesson plans, grading papers, writing reports, coping with the stress factor that comes with the job.

I also believe that teaching is one of the most crucial jobs out there. Come on, what would you do without teachers? They deserve that salary.

By the way, teaching is a "highly skilled job".

edit on 20-2-2011 by PlanterZ because: (no reason given)

Really buddy second grade teachers have a hard time coming up with lesson plans. Lets be real here your mom is a glorified baby sitter at best my aunt makes 90 grand doing the same thing because she learned to work the system. First off its not an 8 hour day second you get the summer off and every holiday known to man. Plus they almost never work weekends! Not only that they have piss poor results to boot. Let me guess your mom got tenure and then got her masters bang 90 grand for life teaching kids how to spell 4 letter words and do basic math. While i will have to work for the next 10 years to get to 80 grand in the information security field and if one person get's a virus or the system goes down its my job. Then if i get my masters i might get up to 110 maybe but its wishful thinking and at anytime i could lose my job. Plus i will have to study all the time just to keep up with the tech coming out. But no your mom and her basic education masters should get 90 grand a year even if she is only teaching 7 year old's how to barely read and write.

reply to post by intelinside451


This article is biased - they are saying how much the average teacher earns + benefit's but they make no comparisson to other professions and they do not consider how many years the teacher has spent in training, and on the job when convincing you they are paid too much.

Teachers work hard - they not only baby the rotten kid's of the modern age, they have to spend their days teaching lessons and the nights preparing them - they do not get paid for all the prep they often have to do. Teachers also have to stay late and on weekends at times for meetings etc

Teachers often stay in their jobs for many years - if you compared it to people staying with companies for the same time I bet they would earn close to the same if they stayed in the one job.

If you also took in to consideration ALL the hours worked - including lesson planning/marking etc that took place in addition to their classroom work I bet their are not many jobs that would not pay a similar salery.

Teacher's carry out the jobs a lot of modern parents can not or do not do themself - consider it child support.

I would also bet the reason the results are low are a combination of teachers having too many numbers, time spent disaplining because of class disruptions resulting from kid's lack of disapline at home, Kid's hyped up on junk food due to parents giving them money for lunch. Kid's having poor sleep due to lack of rules at home, the list goes on - but everyone just wants to point the finger at the teachers... well that obviously got tiresome for them so they decided to charge you a heap for the crap society puts them through

reply to post by mikellmikell


I worked 80 hour weeks for 25k a year,doing physical labor and i was happy with what i got.

I had teachers that would flip out on kids in school and the old hags just make you sick when you grow up and find out they are making this kind of money to babysit us.

The problem with this argument is that you are stereotyping all teachers as lazy. Some teachers barely deserve 1/5th of the money they are paid and make the others look bad. Most teachers work hard and earn their pay, but unfortunately, there are a lot of teachers out there that are incompetent fools.

I've worked in that sector before and, lots of bureaucracy and lots of imbalance on roles and responsibilities among individuals. There definitely needs to be some fat trimmed from that sector.


EDIT: I change my mind, most teachers ARE lazy and they dont deserve the amount of money they get paid. Not to mention how EASY it is to get a teaching degree... and the masters program is a joke these days. .. Yeah... simple # man... maybe I should go into teaching. lol

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


"Lets be real here your mom is a glorified baby sitter at best my aunt makes 90 grand doing the same thing because she learned to work the system."

There you have it! With attitudes like this it is no wonder that "teacher bashing" has become the fastest growing blood sport in the world. I am afraid that I see this sort of attitude all to often from parents, you can almost see them doing cartwheels out the front gate when they drop the little savages, oops sorry, cherubs off in the morning. You want to try getting an interview with this sort of parent about their child's progress or behaviour, it can be next to impossible, even when you know they don't work.

As far as being a glorified baby sitter goes. Hmm, no programs or reporting to parents, no work on weekends, $50 dollars a day per child (what it costs me for my son) multiplied by an average class of 28 ($1,400 per day before tax), people actually grateful to have their child being looked after by you.

Sounds great! Where do I sign up?

Peace,
Bunyipboy

P.S. Sorry for the bad quoting, still getting into posting.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by puppy12
I'm sorry, but teachers in most states in the south do not make half as much as that Milwaukee bunch. What's interesting to me is that teachers get bad reputations because the country performs low compared to many others. The problem stems back to political correctness. In my school we do not offer many advanced classes, because of fear of hurting the feelings of parents whose kids don't qualify. Heaven forbid we pull special ed kids away from class to help them with one on one while providing kids who do not struggle more detailed instruction that they can use later. Even if I work my rear end off to help a kid who lays out of school twice a week because mom or dad doesn't make the kid go and fail that kid due to lack of effort guess who is forced to change that grade to passing grade so that the child can move on unprepared...I guess my arguement is that each state has its own regulations for schooling and our country is too big for that. The curriculums do not match up at all from state to state.

Another reason to abolish the ridicules "No child left Behind Act", and get rid of the Dept of Education. Let the states control it, and scope it down to the local level.
Also, sounds like you need to move to where the teachers have a cushy life.

Let the states control it now that's a laugh. Where are the states going to get the money for the schools? Most states are broke or close to it and that's without paying 100% costs of the schools.

Originally posted by Bunyipboy
There you have it! With attitudes like this it is no wonder that "teacher bashing" has become the fastest growing blood sport in the world. I am afraid that I see this sort of attitude all to often from parents, you can almost see them doing cartwheels out the front gate when they drop the little savages, oops sorry, cherubs off in the morning. You want to try getting an interview with this sort of parent about their child's progress or behaviour, it can be next to impossible, even when you know they don't work.

In fairness the teachers who look after young children don't deserve the high pay because it's not a difficult job, they really are glorified baby sitters. I don't have teacher training and i could do that job very easily. It requires a GCSE understanding of subjects, something most adults in the UK have and a firm nature to keep them behaving. Young kids tend to obey teachers.

Once kids get to 12 years old then teachers pay should increase, but before that age it's a very simple job.

Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
Really buddy second grade teachers have a hard time coming up with lesson plans. Lets be real here your mom is a glorified baby sitter at best my aunt makes 90 grand doing the same thing because she learned to work the system. First off its not an 8 hour day second you get the summer off and every holiday known to man. Plus they almost never work weekends! Not only that they have piss poor results to boot. Let me guess your mom got tenure and then got her masters bang 90 grand for life teaching kids how to spell 4 letter words and do basic math. While i will have to work for the next 10 years to get to 80 grand in the information security field and if one person get's a virus or the system goes down its my job. Then if i get my masters i might get up to 110 maybe but its wishful thinking and at anytime i could lose my job. Plus i will have to study all the time just to keep up with the tech coming out. But no your mom and her basic education masters should get 90 grand a year even if she is only teaching 7 year old's how to barely read and write.

While i agree that teachers who look after the young children don't deserve high pay, the teachers looking after older kids do deserve it.

However that isn't the reason i am replying to you. What confuses me is that you lament the fact teachers get high pay, point out how easy the job is and point out you are well educated but don't get as much. Surely the logical thing would be to retrain quickly and start teaching if it's so easy and they get such good pay. So why don't you?

As for the hours worked well i'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish and you have no clue what you are talking about. They don't get summers off because those summers are usually filled with further training, planning the lessons for when the kids come back and a ton of stuff inbetween. I know some teachers and they get really annoyed when people make comments about them having summer off because they're kind of busy.

As someone else pointed out teachers don't work 8 hour days either. They usually get to the school 1-2 hours earlier than the first lesson, when the day is done they have marking to do and the next days lesson to plan. From what i've been told by friends this can easily add up to 12-14 hours some days.

This doesn't include dealing with angry parents and abusive kids.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
Really buddy second grade teachers have a hard time coming up with lesson plans. Lets be real here your mom is a glorified baby sitter at best my aunt makes 90 grand doing the same thing because she learned to work the system. First off its not an 8 hour day second you get the summer off and every holiday known to man. Plus they almost never work weekends! Not only that they have piss poor results to boot. Let me guess your mom got tenure and then got her masters bang 90 grand for life teaching kids how to spell 4 letter words and do basic math. While i will have to work for the next 10 years to get to 80 grand in the information security field and if one person get's a virus or the system goes down its my job. Then if i get my masters i might get up to 110 maybe but its wishful thinking and at anytime i could lose my job. Plus i will have to study all the time just to keep up with the tech coming out. But no your mom and her basic education masters should get 90 grand a year even if she is only teaching 7 year old's how to barely read and write.

While i agree that teachers who look after the young children don't deserve high pay, the teachers looking after older kids do deserve it.

However that isn't the reason i am replying to you. What confuses me is that you lament the fact teachers get high pay, point out how easy the job is and point out you are well educated but don't get as much. Surely the logical thing would be to retrain quickly and start teaching if it's so easy and they get such good pay. So why don't you?

As for the hours worked well i'm sorry but that's a load of rubbish and you have no clue what you are talking about. They don't get summers off because those summers are usually filled with further training, planning the lessons for when the kids come back and a ton of stuff inbetween. I know some teachers and they get really annoyed when people make comments about them having summer off because they're kind of busy.

As someone else pointed out teachers don't work 8 hour days either. They usually get to the school 1-2 hours earlier than the first lesson, when the day is done they have marking to do and the next days lesson to plan. From what i've been told by friends this can easily add up to 12-14 hours some days.

This doesn't include dealing with angry parents and abusive kids.

While I agree with the bulk of your agument, the first bit about the young children really requies some thought. It is fact that children learn more in the first 5 years of their life than they will throughout the rest of their schooling. I have seen a number of the "new" things an infant/toddler up to the age of 5 learns everyday and wish I could find it but from memory it is well over 20 new concepts etc they learn. How many nrew things did you learn today? I know I didn't. It is critical in these early years that firstly parents, then teachers stimulate and encourage the children to explore. By the time I see them at 12 years of age, most learning difficulties are far too established to make corrective actions successful. In most school, you can only get a child up to the age of 8 seen by a speech pathologist, otherwise it become a numbers game. While the younger children don't usually have the severe behavioural problems this isn't always true. (Just ask my wife!)

I really wish the people who say we are glorifies baby sitters would come and spend a day at school doing parent help. I know it sounds corny but it really is true; children are our most valuable resource and should be the most heavily invested in. What you see and think about teachers and the job they do is not what it would first appear to be and I would hope that those of you who come here seeking the truth endeavour to do so in this issue.

I teach part time in detailed joinery building and constuction in Australia as well as run my own business and to be honest most school teachers have a breeze not like us Tech teachers and we are on half that salary and some.

We have to pick up the pieces after bad teaching through most high schools and trying to keep students/apprentices employed as well, plus getting hammered from parents because thier brat has been a problem from day one and the prior school system has no disipline whats so ever including thier parents.

So that salary for us tradies/teachers is pie in the the sky.

Originally posted by Bunyipboy
While I agree with the bulk of your agument, the first bit about the young children really requies some thought. It is fact that children learn more in the first 5 years of their life than they will throughout the rest of their schooling. I have seen a number of the "new" things an infant/toddler up to the age of 5 learns everyday and wish I could find it but from memory it is well over 20 new concepts etc they learn. How many nrew things did you learn today? I know I didn't. It is critical in these early years that firstly parents, then teachers stimulate and encourage the children to explore. By the time I see them at 12 years of age, most learning difficulties are far too established to make corrective actions successful. In most school, you can only get a child up to the age of 8 seen by a speech pathologist, otherwise it become a numbers game. While the younger children don't usually have the severe behavioural problems this isn't always true. (Just ask my wife!)

Sorry but it doesn't take any measure of intelligence to taech children the basic concepts they require to advance in education. It is neither here nor there as to how fast they learn, the principles they are being taught are incredibly easy for an adult to understand and pass on. Teachers who deal with young children don't deserve high pay, they are glorified babysitters.

Originally posted by Bunyipboy
I really wish the people who say we are glorifies baby sitters would come and spend a day at school doing parent help. I know it sounds corny but it really is true; children are our most valuable resource and should be the most heavily invested in. What you see and think about teachers and the job they do is not what it would first appear to be and I would hope that those of you who come here seeking the truth endeavour to do so in this issue.

While i haven't spent time in schools teaching kids i know a few teachers and the ones i know really look down on the ones who teach young children. And the idea of those teachers being glorified baby sitters is i'm afraid an attitude held by teachers dealing with older children, not all teachers or course but the ones i know feel that way.

I don't mean to be rude to you, teaching is important but those who teach young kids do not deserve the same salary as the ones teaching older kids, they don't work as hard. I am sure if you teach young kids you will think otherwise but people are usually very bad as being objective about how hard they actually work.

I have taught kids btw, in various volunteer programs, but not math and science, more bushcraft related stuff, especially plant identification, so i'm not completely ignorant of how tricky it can be.

reply to post by intelinside451


Thanks for writing the dumbest tread ever on ats, seriously, where do you get the ballz to call out teachers lol, do you know what they have to go through to teach little dumb #s that get no education at home, no respect for anything.

Seriously baseball players make too much money not teachers, its not the friggen teachers fault the kids are dumb its the parents that dont have time or dont give a # about there kids..

Thanks for proving to me that theres inteligent rocks and plants out there

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Hey ImaginaryReality1984,

Really enjoying the discussion, nice to have an intellectual conversation, debating the points.

Regarding the idea that what we call kindy, Pre-primary and junior primary teachers (ages 4 to 9ish) should be paid less, I know a few of them, my wife included, who would really disagree with what you have to say. True, with guidance from any competent adult, children will learn many of the necessary skills and knowledge to take them through their school years. Unfortunately, parenting is not what it once was, there are many, many reasons for this and the role these teacher play is vitally important. Many of the best teachers I know work in this area of schooling and they do this through choice. I could not do it, I've been too long in the senior school area and am not sure that the skills I have developed over the last few years would let me survive in a junior grade class.

I am very sorry to hear that your teacher friends look down on the job the junior teachers do. It is certainly a different way of life in the junior grades, much more skills focused but certainly not day care material. In fact the Western Australian government and W.A. Department of Education are seriously investigating and considering having planned school activities for children from birth to 4 years of age. Their arguement is too many children are coming to school without the necessary skills to allow them to be successful in their schooling. There will be far more money spent here in early childhood education than in the rest of the school.

As I say, I just don't see the validity in what you say and I know plenty of people who would be offended if middle and senior school teachers where treated more prefferentially than they were. You'd have armed rebellion almost actually.

Peace,
Bunyipboy

I wonder how many people in ere bitching really have kids lol, kids have a sponge for a brain for the first 5 years, so if your kid is dumb it aint the teachers fault, and whos ever had to deal with more than 2 5 years old is a saint lol, these kids are suposed to be the future, our precise jewels, why would you want an under paid, over worked person taking care of them lol...

I can call you guys a whaaaaaaammmmmmmmmbulance

Originally posted by Bunyipboy
reply to post by pcrobotwolf

 

"Lets be real here your mom is a glorified baby sitter at best my aunt makes 90 grand doing the same thing because she learned to work the system."

There you have it! With attitudes like this it is no wonder that "teacher bashing" has become the fastest growing blood sport in the world. I am afraid that I see this sort of attitude all to often from parents, you can almost see them doing cartwheels out the front gate when they drop the little savages, oops sorry, cherubs off in the morning. You want to try getting an interview with this sort of parent about their child's progress or behaviour, it can be next to impossible, even when you know they don't work.

As far as being a glorified baby sitter goes. Hmm, no programs or reporting to parents, no work on weekends, $50 dollars a day per child (what it costs me for my son) multiplied by an average class of 28 ($1,400 per day before tax), people actually grateful to have their child being looked after by you.

Sounds great! Where do I sign up?

Peace,
Bunyipboy

P.S. Sorry for the bad quoting, still getting into posting.

edit on 21-2-2011 by Bunyipboy because: Sorry forgot to wish everyone...peace

What you a failing to mention when comparing the cost of childcare or "babysitters" vs. teachers salaries, is overhead.

A teacher shows up at a School and teaches students, there isnt any additional costs involved.

A person who provides childcare as a business, out of that $50/child you quoted there is quite abit of overhead as with any business. They have to pay for things like, rent/lease of building, insurance, utilities, food, toys, employee salaries, healthcare, etc...

A more realistic comparison would be comparing a teachers salary vs. the salary of a person who works for a childcare facility. Someone who just shows up everyday and babysits children.

And i think you will find that the people who work for childcare facilities make minimum wage or alitte better vs, teachers salary/compensation which can range anywhere from $40,000 to $100,000+

But as a teacher if you would like to start your own school and pay for the facility, insurance, janitors, utilities, etc....i dont think anyone would mind paying you $1400/day to teach 28 students just remember a good portion of that is going to be spent on expenses for running your business.

Why can't a teacher make 100k? I dont think they are giving just any teachers 100k, and I would expect some teachers to be amazing.. the education system, sucks, not the teacher, always... I want my child to be taught by someone whos making enough money to care about what they teach... 100k sounds ok... granted they teach.

reply to post by skull_bones


Very true. It was a highly simplistic statement. Probably what I should have said is that, like any professional area the more qualified a person is, the higher standard of service they generally provide. Like anybody would, I get greatly offended by a person running down my qualifications or telling me what my job is and how easy it is.

Peace,
Bunyipboy

Originally posted by mikellmikell
I have 2 realitives that went into teaching about 6 years ago in Michigan. They are both making over $65k a year and whining about having to put in 7 hour days. They would be part time employees in any other business.

Yeah I had a friend like that, she went into teaching and while she was in her internship she told me how hard her job was, while she was sitting out cutting out projects for her students to do, I offered to help and she let me. Cutting out paper and preparing for the next class was not hard at all. I was finished in less than an hour. She was like how did you do that, and I said cutting out little projects for kids to do is not hard at all, I did it with all three of my kids, plus taught them to read, write, and the basics before Kindergarten. If I let the school teach them to read and the basics they all would have been below school level especially my autistic son, he is reading at an adult level and he's 13. My other two are reading at a middle school level and they are 10 and 9. I think i helped them out a bunch when I took those matters into my hands.

I think giving those teachers that much money is asinine, and absolutely ridiculous!! There may be good teachers out there but no offense to the second poster but most suck a$$. I also don't think the teachers in this area should make much at all, as they can't teach for crap out here. My kids are in the best schools in the surrounding areas here and this school is bad!! My kids don't learn much at all. I would home school but I am in college myself to become a librarian. Hopefully I can make a difference when I get a job.

Originally posted by AntiNWO
The difference here being that private schools are many times more innovative in dealing with troubled students than public schools. You can blame the government all you want for this, but the fact remains that private school competition encourages creativity in dealing with every kind of challenge that your fertile imagination can come up with.

Of course all of this is moot, seeing as the teachers unions have a stranglehold on the politicians in Washington, as well as the states. Plus, considering the fact that the current system is doing a such a stellar job at dumbing down the students and churning out ignorant, passive, obedient cattle, whose biggest concern is when the next video game will be released, things will never change, so you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

You are right about the fact that current system is trying to dumb down students in general, but the fact that somebody still knows when is time to say STOP implies that this job is still not well done. On the other hand, your solution is even worst. Private schools will be more innovative?? Ofcrs, more innovative in making money, but not in educating young people.
Are you so brainwashed that you think profit is measure for everything in life?? Don't you see the future? Private schools, private roads, private police, private firefighters, private water? Ultimately, only those who are so deeply involved in the system will deserve right to live. There will be NO ALTERNATIVE!
ps. I'm always surprised how many Americans see socialism in everything, and problem is exactly the opposite - privatisation of everything is what elite wants and sheeps like you (I apologise if you are rich capitalist, then this is your natural position) will make that possible while thinking they are somehow fighting the elite???
Irony.