$100,000+ Salaries for School Teachers?

reply to post by DanDeath

...What they should have really cut is all the stupid sports (especially football) they're putting a ridiculous amount of money in, or at least just cut the spending by half....

So how about completely cutting the sports programs after school and use volunteers instead... Oh then we would have to find real jobs for the washed up has been jocks that did not make the cut in professional sports... /sarc

reply to post by kozmo

After 6 years one must complete 9 semester hours of approved coursework - that's 3 classes! By 12 years the teacher has to complete 9 more credit hours OR obtain a Master's Degree - again, 3 more classes! Oh, by the way, these can be completed ONLINE at an approved university. It ain't that hard folks!!!

And I had to do 18 semester hours every three years for ever more to keep my certification!!!! AND I did not get ANY extra time off to do so. I really really got sick of night classes.

I did not read all the pages, having given up after the umpteenth posting of people griping about high pay for teachers and 3 months off, etc..First , teacher pay is variable state by state. Right to work states tend to have less pay because they are not union states. Wisconsin is a union state. I work in Florida, a right to work state. This is my 35th year of teaching. Teaching requires a college degree, and I have a Masters Degree as well. I make less than 54 thousand a year. I also pay for my health insurance, and I must renew my certificate every 5 years. This usually means workshops after hours or college classes. My district does not pay any of that for me. This is all my expense. My husband teaches as well. We scrimped and saved and did without to send our children to college because we did not qualify for any loans as we had worked hard and had a house. We told our children do not go into education because of low pay, long hours and increasingly violent children.Teachers are also seen as people who cannot do anything so they teach; which is sooo opposite ! Try teaching two weeks and then say it is easy. But teachers are regarded as people incompetent to do anything but teach.
My retirement is not going to be a whole lot. Why did we stay in this low paying field ? We loved teaching children and we were able to be with our children when they were home. By the way, we do not have 3 month summers here ! So I guess the point of all this is that one cannot make blanket statements about high paying teachers . Thank you all for reading this and giving me a chance to vent.

reply to post by macman


It is sad, you must see the whole or greater picture before you will understand.
Teachers are an important instrument in our future they are the students "parent" for 8 hours a day and sometimes beyond that.
I place teachers right up there with police (good ones), firefighters, doctors, (the dedicated ones), Etc.
I chose plumbing as my "career" why? Because any monkey can be a plumber and make as much as a doctor, all of that without spending 400k on school (albeit i spent quite a bit on tools).
Any job that helps another human being or works to relieve pain, struggle, Etc. i hold as a revered position.
So, say what you need about teachers, and oh yeah, thank the teacher that helped you figure out how to write your post while you're at it.

reply to post by firepilot

....I am for well compensated teachers, but I want good teachers. Not just people warming a seat in the classroom. And I want bad teachers fired.....

Tell me about it. The last teacher I had at the community college (3rd semester Accounting) was so bad I ended up teaching the course to the rest of the students after she left each evening. After a weeks of that, the rest of the students and I went to the Dean and finally got her fired. Accounting is math and it is right or it is wrong and boy did that teacher have it really mucked up.

Originally posted by firepilot
They deserve good pay for good results, not just for having a certain job.

I kind of agree there are some bad teachers out there, but now let's look at them from inside their own shoes.
Say you are a cabinet maker and you are given scarred lumber and are expected to build masterpiece cabinets.
Ok i am quite a good woodworker and i can make some nice things, the trick is knowing what to hide and where, how to use shading and at times just use wood putty.
Problem is it takes alot of extra time.
These teachers do not get ALOT of extra time, and some of the kids just watch the clock untill they can leave.
Now a teacher just like a police officer i truly believe for the greatest part decides on their career to help, problem is along the way they find it is almost impossible to do their job with all of the forces working against them.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by macman

 

It is sad, you must see the whole or greater picture before you will understand.
Teachers are an important instrument in our future they are the students "parent" for 8 hours a day and sometimes beyond that.
I place teachers right up there with police (good ones), firefighters, doctors, (the dedicated ones), Etc.
I chose plumbing as my "career" why? Because any monkey can be a plumber and make as much as a doctor, all of that without spending 400k on school (albeit i spent quite a bit on tools).
Any job that helps another human being or works to relieve pain, struggle, Etc. i hold as a revered position.
So, say what you need about teachers, and oh yeah, thank the teacher that helped you figure out how to write your post while you're at it.

No, I see it for what it is.
In this case, its Union members pitching a fit over budget cuts.
While Rome is ablaze, Nero is no where to be found.
Also , maybe research Home Schooling and the percentages over the last several years.
Parents are the sole teacher of the child, not a stranger at a building.
Go back to that, and I think society would be better.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by firepilot

 

....I am for well compensated teachers, but I want good teachers. Not just people warming a seat in the classroom. And I want bad teachers fired.....

Tell me about it. The last teacher I had at the community college (3rd semester Accounting) was so bad I ended up teaching the course to the rest of the students after she left each evening. After a weeks of that, the rest of the students and I went to the Dean and finally got her fired. Accounting is math and it is right or it is wrong and boy did that teacher have it really mucked up.

Two questions:

1) Aren't their bad employees in your career field?

2) How do you think teachers should "rated" (since I can't think of a better term right now).

Public indoctrination centers literally "compete" with private schools.

If the goal is to have as many of the low and middle class kept away from private options, then teachers pay should continue to rise, thus causing private tuition to to become something only the elite can afford.

Oh wait, I guess that's already happened.

Originally posted by macman
Go back to that, and I think society would be better.

Throws his hands up in surrender, this i cannot defend as i think it would turn out much brighter students.
Just one problem though, some of our modern parents don't know enough to cook their own meals yet alone teach a child.
But yeah home schooling would turn out, for the ones who did it much smarter people.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

You do realize that a nation does not have to allow products into the country that are manufactured elsewhere, correct? Apparently, you see no connection to "deregulation" and "free trade" and the mass exodus of jobs in the US. ... We COULD only do business with companies playing fair, and treating humans like humans, and the world like our home, rather than a dump site.

Say What????

Did you read what I wrote. The Democrat, President CLINTON ratified the World Trade Organization Treaty. Do you understand what that means??? I am sorry if I did not clarify.

By ratifying WTO the president and Congress AGREED to ship our jobs overseas.

WTO prevents countries from using tariffs or any other sort of trade barriers. The WTO and the Politics of GMO. By F. William Engdahl does a really good job of explaining how very nasty WTO really is. Everyone should read it so you understand how the US government betrayed us.

This is trade agreements as related to food, which was my area of interest.

SPS measures were found in the original GATT Articles, mainly Article XX "General Exceptions," and later in the 1979 Tokyo Round Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade, a plurilateral agreement known as the Standards Code. The intent of the Agreement was to ensure that when SPS measures were applied, they were used only to the extent necessary to ensure food safety and animal and plant health, and not to unduly restrict market access for other countries (James and Anderson, 1998; Roberts, 1998). xstatic99645.tripod.com...

"Measures to trace animals...to provide assurances on...safety ..have been incorporated into international standards... The Agreement on the Application of Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures...Aims to ensure that governments DO NOT USE QUARANTINE AND FOOD SAFETY REQUIREMENTS as Unjustified trade barriers... It provides Member countries with a right to implement traceability [NAIS] as an SPS measure." www.wto.org...

“Development of risk-based systems has been heavily influenced by the WTO Agreement on the Application of Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures ” OIE report Oct 2008 www.oie.int...

Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) introduction of intellectual property rules on plants, animals and seeds under WTO’s Agreement “could damage the livelihoods of these 1.4 billion farmers worldwide and undermine food sovereignty and food security ” Joint Communication from the African Group to the Council for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (2003) www.fao.org...

Originally posted by macman

Parents are the sole teacher of the child, not a stranger at a building.
Go back to that, and I think society would be better.

And on what do you base that? The state of society before public education? Do you happen to have any idea what the state of society was then?

Public education is the minimum. No one is preventing parents from spending a couple hours in the evening with their children and enhancing their education, are they? Good parents do teach their children above and beyond what they learn in school. I could read before kindergarten because my mother taught me to. She bought little workbooks and we did all sorts of stuff to enhance my school work. And she limited TV. For a long time, we didnt have one at all, so we read a lot.

Its not as if there are only two choices, 1) school does everything, parents do nothing 2) parents do everything school does nothing.

There is a huge middle ground, and parents are dropping the ball far more than teachers, imho.

Originally posted by Elienne
I did not read all the pages, having given up after the umpteenth posting of people griping about high pay for teachers and 3 months off, etc..First , teacher pay is variable state by state. Right to work states tend to have less pay because they are not union states.

A friend of mine got her teaching degree a few years ago. I think she started out making 30k a year. Last year, she got layed off when the budget cutbacks happened. She was the first to go since it works on seniority. Now she's a counselor at a trade school making like $12 bucks an hour. I have serious doubts about the methodology putting Wisconsin teachers at 100k a year including benefits. What could possibly be worth $4k a month in benefits ? Even the most luxurious health insurance plans don't cost that much.

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by macman
Go back to that, and I think society would be better.

Throws his hands up in surrender, this i cannot defend as i think it would turn out much brighter students.
Just one problem though, some of our modern parents don't know enough to cook their own meals yet alone teach a child.
But yeah home schooling would turn out, for the ones who did it much smarter people.

Then it goes back to what this country was founded on. The individual and not the collective.
So what if some kids would turn out bad, they already do and the citizen pats through the nose in taxes.
My kids are my responsibility, not my neighbors. Nor the Govt nor the tax payer. Mine, and mine alone. I chose to have them.

Originally posted by crimvelvet

WTO prevents countries from using tariffs or any other sort of trade barriers.

I do understand that our government betrayed us. The fact that it was a Democrat that signed free trade agreements into law is beside the point. Both parties are bought and paid for. Partisanship is wasted energy. What puzzles me is you blame unions for this. Not the government who betrayed us, and the wealthy elite who paid them to betray us.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by macman

Parents are the sole teacher of the child, not a stranger at a building.
Go back to that, and I think society would be better.

And on what do you base that? The state of society before public education? Do you happen to have any idea what the state of society was then?

Public education is the minimum. No one is preventing parents from spending a couple hours in the evening with their children and enhancing their education, are they? Good parents do teach their children above and beyond what they learn in school. I could read before kindergarten because my mother taught me to. She bought little workbooks and we did all sorts of stuff to enhance my school work. And she limited TV. For a long time, we didnt have one at all, so we read a lot.

Its not as if there are only two choices, 1) school does everything, parents do nothing 2) parents do everything school does nothing.

There is a huge middle ground, and parents are dropping the ball far more than teachers, imho.

I did a research project from one of my college courses a few years back. I researched the home schooling thing and found that not only were the kids turning out better, but home schooling is becoming more popular.
Home schooling is not just confined with the mom teaching a couple hours a day. There are families that get together and form their own multi-family classes.
Check out the book either No More Prisons or Bomb the Suburbs. Both are by the same author, but one has a large focus on home schooling.
I can do a better job of teaching my own child. I have no Union to deal with. I am in control of what is taught. I have guidelines to follow just like schools. It is not any drain on the tax system. It puts me, the parent back in charge of my child.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by crimvelvet

WTO prevents countries from using tariffs or any other sort of trade barriers.

I do understand that our government betrayed us. The fact that it was a Democrat that signed free trade agreements into law is beside the point. Both parties are bought and paid for. Partisanship is wasted energy. What puzzles me is you blame unions for this. Not the government who betrayed us, and the wealthy elite who paid them to betray us.

I blame them all.
The individual has been sold down the river for a dime.

reply to post by kozmo

If the teachers were truly interested in excellence in their profession, a fair amount of their collective bargaining power would be focused on those types of initiatives but they're not. If it were, then negotiating for better compensation would not be an issue and many of us would be happy to pony up. Until such time that the unions can demonstrate that they are in this for the improvement of the system, as opposed to their own bank accounts, then they can play on my heart-strings and ask for my support. But alas, they won't, which is why I have little to no sympathy.

Well said, The US school system USED to be very good. My Grandmother taught Latin. Dad took Latin and classical Greek in school. When was the last time you saw those languages taught in school??

Think you could pass 8th grade in 1895? Take a look at that exam and compare it to the crap that is taught now.

If Wall Street can sit on their butts and collect millions of $$$ in bonuses not including their pay scale then I would say the teachers are under paid.

Greetings to all. I am a brand spanking new member here at ATS. I have been reading your posts for several years and have enjoyed the many viewpoints that have been posted here. I respect all opinions whether I agree with them or not. This said, I would like to post my own comments on teaching as a profession since this has come up in this discusion.
I taught in the public school system for 15 years here in an unnamed midwestern state and my wife has 21 years in and is still teaching. I have also worked in the private sector for several years so I think I can provide some good info and comparisons.
To begin let me say something general about students and teachers. In my experience 95% of the students I taught were great kids trying their best and were very respectful of the staff from the principals down to the janitors. The same goes for the teachers. Most were hard working people trying to help students become better people and earning their paychecks just like the rest of us. Although I did encounter a number of teachers who spent half the day reading the newspaper or worrying about winning their next football/baseball/basketball game. Please feel free to gripe about the other 5% (teachers and students) because they did make our lives a living he** on a daily basis.
Some comments made by many do concern me. These are:
1. Teacher salary.
2. Work schedule
3. Working conditions
4. Union memberships

Regarding teacher salary: I have read that average teacher salaries reach six figures. In this part of the country I have never seen a teacher pay scale go above $60,000. And that is only after 27 years experience and TWO (count them, TWO) Master's degrees AT THE TEACHER'S OWN EXPENSE! After receiving my Master's degree in the mid-1990's I received a $2,500 per year raise. This was after spending $10,000 to earn my Master's degree. After taxes (Thank you, Uncle Sam), it amounted to a $24.96 take-home pay per week. I remember commenting to my principal that I made more money mowing my neighbor's lawn than I did from this raise. It took about 8 years at this rate to recoup the money I spent on the degree. Let me add that in most states a Master's degree is REQUIRED in order to keep one's teaching certificate. I am not complaining. I knew what I was getting into. I am just pointing this out.

Regarding work schedule: Teachers are under a contractual agreement to teach a certain number of days per year. In my state it is 186. The three months off during the summer is a myth of yesterday. This doesn't count the work put in after school, at home on weekends, at night, and over breaks. Remember, teachers do not draw overtime. Again, this is a good schedule, but it is not the stroll in the park that some think. Remember, until one earns a Master's degree, school breaks are spent in class. I am from the old school before online courses helped some. We drove to the nearest Universitiy, about 120 miles round trip two nights per week during the school year and four days per week during the summer. You guys and gals who take online classes, be thankful!

Regarding working conditions: In my years of teaching, my wife and I have taught in schools that rivaled the grandest shopping malls in their extravagance. We have also taught in schools that were one strong wind away from collapse. Examples:
1. My wife taught in a classroom that was a former coal bin and had no windows.
2. I once taught in a school with no heat and cracks in my classroom wall so big you could see sunshine
coming through them. During one harsh cold snap I would find frost on my computer screens.
3. I once taught in a school where the upstairs bathroom leaked down into the school kitchen which was
positioned underneath. I won't go into detail, but you can use your imagination. I packed my lunch every day
that I was there.
In the years that I have spent teaching, I have been and seen fellow teachers get hit, spit upon, bitten, kicked, cursed, and threatened by the previously mentioned 5% of students. Additionally, there have been cars vandalized, homes vandalized, and other property damage. Lives and careers are often ruined because of false accusations of physical and sexual abuse. Let me make this perfectly clear: Any adult, teacher or otherwise, who abuses a child needs to be put in a cage full of pitbulls with a steak tied to their genitals. Enough said? But in some cases it doesn't matter what the truth is, school administrators will throw the teacher under the bus in order to save face in the public's eye.

Regarding union membership: This is the straight, Honest-to-God truth: Most teachers do not join the teacher unions if given a choice. In some states they are required to join, whether they want to or not. The reason many join, for the most part, is for the inexpensive liability insurance and legal representation that the unions can provide. Most don't even attend the union meetings or participate in any of their activities.

One more thing if I may. I was a welder from 1983-1985 and made about $35k a year. I took my first teaching job in 1989 and started at $17k. Whether you believe or not not teaching was a he** of a lot harder than welding.

I hope this helps you understand some of the controversial issues surrounding teaching. I think I speak for the vast majority of teachers when I say that we want nothing but good for our students. We want them to succeed in life, find good employment, and to lead happy lives. For those of you that have had bad experiences as a student or teacher, we understand what you are going through and hope that it doesn't cause a bad reflection on those of us who are doing our best to teach and to learn. I would like to thank ATS for allowing me to voice my opinion. Once again, glad to be a new member. I enjoy all of your articles. Good day to all.