China launches new type of sub, American intelligence "suprised"

Originally posted by Kozzy
Are you kidding? The amount of firepower a those ships can bring to bear is enormous. Crusiers and Destroyers can pretty much deal with any threat, air, sea, or sub. A Frigate is a more specialized ASW platfrom, which is soon to be outdated.

Subs don't operate as lone wolfs, they are intergrated with each other and surface ships.

Add, UAVs, helicopters, recon planes, satellite imagery, radar, and towed sonar. This is a #load of sensor power, that takes some serious tricks to get through.

cruisers i are really designed for ground support and air the destroyers tend to be more ASW work and air work. a frigate wont be outdated just the ships will be there is still a purpose for frigates ,yes i agree that frigates are good ASW work but they work better in groups.
are you kidding me? the purpose of a sub is to be stealthy u cant be stealthy working with surface ships . they are designed as lone wolfs to hunt and track bad guy subs en of story.
yes the helicopters and planes and stuff would catch a sub MOVEING through the group but a sub just needs to rest on the bottom and wait the carrier out. also yeah it could be possible to do it but would be difficult.

Originally posted by Kozzy
The chances of a carrier being completely destroyed are pretty unlikely too. One might be seriously damaged and return to port for repair. Plus, that's why we have 16 of them.

one nuke up its tail and it is dead along with most of the fleet.
several HIGH powered torps would sink it and if one was destroyed you could see the US military rethinking thier stratagies.

Can anyone help to find the news and post it here ? I remember an event
happened maybe 5 (?) years ago in Japan Sea, there is a carrier group
there, but 2 Russia Su-27 hiddenly approach the carrier and suddenly
appeared in the sky above the carrier. They fly pass the carrier several
times, took the pictures and even sent the pictures to US navy by
email, the pictures also showed the status on carrier like a mess because
people never expected another countries aircrafts can fly above them,
they fall into panic. Later Pentagon warned Russia that this is not funny
and don't repeat the stupid game again.

But many people feel curious how these 2 Su-27 can avoid detection
and hiddenly approach the carrier, some people think that Ruissans must
have studied the dead corner of carrier force very carefully and they
are making use of their weakness.

I will try to find the news and post it here.

one nuke up its tail and it is dead along with most of the fleet.

I feel sorry for the country that launches that nuke is all I have to say. The citizens of that country better thank their government for killing all of them!

No need for Nukes. A single Oscar II SSGN can sink a single CVBG in a short while, while being 600kms away.

Thats a very possible senario necro, subs always do have the advantage. Just watch out for the 688's that will be lurking around the battle group!

This is the news

www.worldnetdaily.com...

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS
Russian flyover takes Navy by surprise?
Ship personnel say incident more serious threat than Pentagon admits

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Jon E. Dougherty
� 2000 WorldNetDaily.com

A pair of Russian warplanes that made at least three high-speed passes over a U.S. aircraft carrier stationed in the Sea of Japan in October constituted a much more serious threat than the Pentagon has admitted and were easily in a position to destroy the ship if the planes had had hostile intentions, say Navy personnel.

According to reports, a Russian air force Su-24 "Fencer" accompanied by an Su-27 "Flanker" made unopposed passes over the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) on Oct. 9, as the carrier was being refueled.

Russian fighters and reconnaissance planes made a second attempt to get close to the carrier on Nov. 9 -- a repeat performance for which the Pentagon, as well as eyewitnesses aboard ship, said the carrier was prepared. But it was the first incident in October that caused alarm.

Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said during a regularly scheduled press briefing Nov. 30 that the Russian fighters were detected on radar well in advance of their high-speed passes. Naval officers aboard ship who spoke of the incident on the condition of anonymity agreed.

However, at the time the carrier's combat information center alerted the ship's commander, Capt. Allen G. Myers, that the Russian fighters were inbound, none of the carrier's fighters were airborne. The ship carries 85 aircraft, according to Navy figures, and has a crew of over 5,500.

Edit: it is not neccessary to post entire articles, just a snippet and a link, please.

[edit on 23-7-2004 by Spectre]

Kind of sounds like propaganda. I just find it hard to believe somebody in the Navy would say

"the entire crew watched overhead as the Russians made a mockery of our feeble attempt of intercepting them."

Just doesn't sound like a Navy man to me!

Maybe some words in this article like a propagada, but the event is true,
the newspaper of many countries reported this event.

Also where the hell were the anti aircraft guns and missiles plus the article says that the F/A-18 was the second aircraft in the air but it doesn't say what happened after the F-18 got airborne cuz I imagine the pilot if the F/A-18 didn't now that the Su-27 was not on a hostile mission but did he fire a missile? This just shows a lack of preparing ness cuz they knew the bogies were coming but they didn't get fighters in the air.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Also where the hell were the anti aircraft guns and missiles plus the article says that the F/A-18 was the second aircraft in the air but it doesn't say what happened after the F-18 got airborne cuz I imagine the pilot if the F/A-18 didn't now that the Su-27 was not on a hostile mission but did he fire a missile? This just shows a lack of preparing ness cuz they knew the bogies were coming but they didn't get fighters in the air.

The Russian aircraft actually picked timing deliberately. You see what the
carrier doing at that time ? they are doing re-fueling, the re-fueling pipe
across the runway and actually block the runway and no aircraft can
take off at that timing, that is very vulnerable timing to the carrier.
The pictures the russian took showed that some of the navy serviceman
hurrily cutting the pipe using knife in order to give way to let aircraft
take off.

Originally posted by necro99
No need for Nukes. A single Oscar II SSGN can sink a single CVBG in a short while, while being 600kms away.

I'd say that's being highly optimistic.

Subs, when working with a batte group, provide underwater security and offense. This is best done when working with other vessels. German U-boats during WWII did much better when working in hunter killer packs.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Diesel they have to surface what a joke and trust me the US subs can detect anything we have experience tech and the best trained crew in the world let the chinese get past that.

may i ask? now WHAT was the point of saying something, or are you trying to gain more out of your confidence in being patriotic to "OH AMERICA".
and another thing,
i bet you slammed your fat hands on the keyboard untill you made a name up.

now was that unprovoked or what?

China launches new type of sub, American intelligence "suprised"

• No personal attacks on members
  
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Originally posted by zack

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Diesel they have to surface what a joke and trust me the US subs can detect anything we have experience tech and the best trained crew in the world let the chinese get past that.

may i ask? now WHAT was the point of saying something, or are you trying to gain more out of your confidence in being patriotic to "OH AMERICA".
and another thing,
i bet you slammed your fat hands on the keyboard untill you made a name up.

now was that unprovoked or what?

This is not their fault, US does not study diesel sub for long time, so they
did not pay attention to tech advancement made by other countries. AIP
technology already solved the issue, and can let the sub stay under water
for weeks, although not as long as nuke sub, but enough to complete
an attack mission and flee away. Many people called sub which installed
AIP system as "mini-nuke-sub", which already means it solved the fatalist
weakness compared to the ordinary subs.

AIP tech, the most advanced countries are Germany and Russia. I think
China also made breakthrough on this technology, the new sub is the
best evidence.

Really flee away once they release a torpedo at the carrier our subs will locate it immediately and send it to kingdom come so its a one way mission for the Chinese submariners.

Also "fat hands" Now again with the stereotyping how sad you have to result to petty insults to act tough


[edit on 21-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Really flee away once they release a torpedo at the carrier our subs will locate it immediately and send it to kingdom come so its a one way mission for the Chinese submariners.

"Also fat hands" Now again with the stereotyping how sad you have to result to petty insults to act tough

I really don't want to answer such kind of stupid question, but still I try
to answer it with patience.

Sub and anti-sub if always a cat and mouse game. Know there is sub
around does not mean you can preciously track and locate the sub.
This kind of track-hide game almost play everyday in the world between
the countries. Egypt has bought Chinese 033 class sub and used it
in a joint naval drill with America, and America force found even with this
kind of old style sub, they still often lost tracking of the it. Sub also has
its own tactics to avoid being tracked and located. See another example,
once there is japan navy drill and they detected there is a sub nearby,
they called a P3C anti-sub plane, but when P3C plane comes, they found
they lost tracking of the sub, the P3C plane flied almost 2 hours but still
can not find the sub, so finally it returned back.

We know cat is very smart, but don't under-estimated the wisedom of
the mouse.

Im not talking about the cat and mouse game im talking about if the Chinese subs fire torpedoes this will reveal their position to US subs near by and they will be eliminated by American subs.

Originally posted by Samiralfey
According to the WT-article, China has developed a new type of submarine to the full suprise of US intelligence. These subs are powered by diesel-electric and are so quiet in the water that it is difficult for U.S. forces to detect and track them.

this is complete crap. there would be no way in Heaven or hell that china would invent technology that would surpass ours.