On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

reply to post by King Seesar


none of that is true. It comes from Bill Schnoebelen. who if you study his llife's accomplishments, it would be very hard for anyone who wasn't a complete and utter MORON to believe his stories.

Here is a timeline of Bill's work from his own site.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0d1a5dd7abdc.jpg[/atsimg]

Is he a truth searcher, or is he looking for money in telling stories? You decide for yourself.

Ok, I just spent 3 days in NYC doing an unrelated event that happened to be in the basement of the NYC Masonic lodge on 23rd St.

Very interesting place.

I went to their 60,000 book library and read some of their books. The core teachings are all about the idea of living good lives and self-improvement.

Of course there are wack jobs in their organization. Just like there are wack jobs in both parties.

My grandfather was a Shriner and rode a Harley in the motorcade, and visited hospitals and did stuff for kids who were burn victims.

reply to post by network dude


My own theory on all the proof from both sides is to say that if anything it was a different era, the book that Lucifer777 uses is old and there might of been a lodge of european orgin from a while back that did some extreme and (to say the least) eunique hazing rituals but i don't think it's commen place in most of todays United States lodges, if so we would of heard more on it trust me....

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by network dude

 

My own theory on all the proof from both sides is to say that if anything it was a different era, the book that Lucifer777 uses is old and there might of been a lodge of european orgin from a while back that did some extreme and (to say the least) eunique hazing rituals but i don't think it's commen place in most of todays United States lodges, if so we would of heard more on it trust me....

edit on 3-5-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

Those pictures that Lucy posts are from a catalog that caters to groups , clubs and fraternities unrelated to Freemasonry . If something like what he states does happen , it would be the exception but FAR , FAR from the norm . There is absolutely NO hazing in my Freemasonry . The only place these stories reside are in Lucy's own twisted mind as he seems utterly fixated on this as can be seen by his constant posting of this subject matter . He is doing nothing more than trolling and "flooding" each thread , no matter the topic , with this crap .

I agree that you would have heard of it before because if this was going on in our lodges then there would be more reports of it coming out almost constantly seeing how anything and everything eventually makes its way to the internet .

Originally posted by Lucifer777
they refer to their Masonic Lodges as Masonic Lodges, such as: "Oasis Shriner's Masonic Lodge ( events.charlotteobserver.com... ) for example.

The link was to a user-created page with no evidence said user was a Shriner. Here's how the Oasis Shrine Temple actually refers to itself:

The first meeting was held at what was called Shrine Hall in downtown Charlotte on January 18, 1895. The next day, with the assistance of Acca Temple repersentatives, 18 new nobles were initiated into the newly-formed Oasis Temple.

But hey, any source is credible when it agrees with you, right?

I think that there is more than adequate evidence in this thread to etablish that the claim that such rituals do not happen in Masonic Lodges is clearly a fraudulent claim.

I still haven't seen evidence that any of this ever occurred in a blue lodge; Scottish Rite lodge, chapter, council, or consistory; or mainstream York Rite chapter, council or commandery. I think "more than adequate" has a higher bar than that.

Originally posted by whenandwhere
. There is absolutely NO hazing in my Freemasonry .

I have found the general response of Masons on the thread to be a mixture of contradiction, abuse and cult denialism. I would describe "cult denialism" as the attitude of a cultist or cult apologist who is unable to accept criticism of their cult even if the evidence that such criticism is valid is overwhelming and who will simply deny the all argument and evidence regarding such criticism. This is absolutely "typical" cult behaviour and indeed the Scientologists refer to this as "Fair Game" and have a stated police of "not" defending against criticisms of their cult, but instead of merely attacking the critics.

To sum up this thread;

I think that it is safe to say that it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that "hazing rituals" occur in 1: The Shriners, 2: The Jesters, 3: Prince Hall Freemasonry and 4: York Rite Masonry; all of which are Masonic organisations.

Since Masonry is sectarian (many "sects" or "sections") I do not wish to suggest that "all" Freemasons are York Rite, Prince Hall, Shriner or Jester Masons; nor would I wish to suggest that no hazing takes place in other Masonic sects, merely that there does not yet appear to be any evidence of such that I am aware of, and since we are dependent on the testimonials of Masons who break their oaths to reveal such hazing rituals, such testimonials may not be forthcoming, and with regards to the York Rite Masonry, which is a major sect of Masonry, the discovery of bizarre hazing rituals is not based on testimonials of such rituals but on a police report of a murder which happened during one such hazing ritual which was meant to be a simulated execution ( hazingmasonic.blogspot.com... -47-shot-during-mick-rite.html. )

Generally an argument stated by Masons who seek to distance themselves from embarassing hazing rituals is approximately "I am not a Shriner, Jester, Prince Hall or York Rite Mason" or "my lodge does not have hazing rituals." This may well be the case that some Masonic Lodge franchises do not have such rituals, but I think it to be innapropriate to simply take a Freemason's word for it since they are under oath not to reveal such "secrets." Further, denials of such sacred and holy hazing rituals are also commonly based on the "argument from ignorance" which is usually stated as "such and such a hazing ritual did not happen to me, so therefore it could not have happened to anyone;" I would not wish to suggest that "all" Freemasons are deemed worthy to receive the most holy and sacred rite of having whipped cream and stawberries applied to their genitals and further there are so many different forms of these holy and sacred hazing rituals that I doubt if most Masons would be considered worthy to be put through through all of these most sacred and holy rites.

The Secrets of Freemasonry and Demystification.

In the modern academic field of the "Study of Religion," a general phenomenon which I have observed is that both students and academics tend to become rather "anti-religious," and I think this is quite a natural process, since as Martin Luther observed, "reason is the enemy of faith," and once one subjects the organised religions of the world to the analysis human reason, they generally come to be viewed as rather ridiculous and an insult to human reason.

Commonly, for example, a hypnotised and indoctrinated Christian will have no problem with applying human reason when it comes to ridiculing other faiths and may ridicule the Islamic offer of 72 virgins in the afterlife, or the ridiculous myths and miracles attributed to Hanunam (the Hindu monkey god) or Ganesha (the Hindu elephant god), and yet due to the process of religious hypnosis and indoctrination they are able to supend human reason and critical thinking when it comes to the myths and miracles of their own faith, and may consider it to be perfectly normal to believe, for example, the their god (Jesus) impregnated his mother in order to give birth to himself and that he and a group of first century religious fanatics could miraculously cure leprosy and blindness and raise the dead.

Similarly with Freemasonry; while non Freemasons may consider laughable, the holy and sacred Hula Hula Bull Dance, or the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals, or Masonic recruits being stripped, blindfolded and having to simulate oral sex with a sausage while being jabbed in their ass with a sharp object (as has been alleged on: www.withoneaccord.org... , it does seem to be the case that Masons take their rituals rather seriously and consider them to be somewhat holy and sacred.

The "secrets" of Masonry.



The WWW and the bookshops of Capitalism are littered with essays and books on the "secrets" of Masonry, and such studies are important in contributing to the demystification of Masonry, though many such titles are speculative and ahistorical. There are numerous bizarre accusations regarding the Freemasons which include accusing them of "Satanism" and "human sacrifice," however it seems to me that the "secrets" of Masonic ritualism are far more mundane, and that the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and other rather silly hazing rituals are hardly "Satanic," and could be more accurately described as rather childish gang initiation rituals.



It would seem entirely natural that Masons would wish to keep such sacred and holy rituals "secret," if only to hide their embarrassment from non Masons and also to keep the element of surprise alive for Masonic initiates.

From a "rational" persepctive virtually all forms of religious ritual would appear to be bizarre and even silly. Having observed numerous Hindu and Christian rituals it seems to me bizarre that adults would worhip what is often essentially just an elaborately dressed plastic or wooden doll or a lingam (a phallic shaped stone which usually represents Shiva) or a statue of the "Blessed Virgin," however these are religions which are taken seriously by hundreds of millions of people.



Ultimately the sacred and holy Masonic rituals such as the "Hula Hula Bull Dance" or the "Golden Shower simulation (using a plastic penis and water)" may be considered as ridiculous as any other religious ritual, however such rituals are often not considered ridiculous by the religious fanatic themselves, who are often willing to pay to be included in such rituals; this is simply all part of the memetic virus that is religion..

Holy, holy

His Imperial Satanic Majesty
Lucifer

"Special offer: I will beat any price on Masonic hazing rituals or double your money back in the afterlife, plus 144 virgins. I will not be undercut on price for ritual humilations, cagings, forced enslavement, collaring (using a Cabletow), floggings, blindfoldings, electrocutions, beatings, mock executions, "Golden Shower" simulations, sissification (dressing the slave up as a woman), animal play (usually where the slave plays the role of a puppy dog) asphyxiation, bloodsport, body modification, branding, caning, crucifixion, caning, pony training and of course, the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals."
.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
I think that it is safe to say that it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that "hazing rituals" occur in 1: The Shriners, 2: The Jesters, 3: Prince Hall Freemasonry and 4: York Rite Masonry; all of which are Masonic organisations.

In my opinion, of those four, the only one I would agree with is the Shriners. I've seen no evidence whatsoever concerning the initiation rituals of the Jesters, nor evidence of hazing ritual in the York Rite. (I don't recall seeing specific proof of hazing in Prince Hall either, but I tend to ignore the bulk of your useless posts anyway.)

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Lucifer777
I think that it is safe to say that it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that "hazing rituals" occur in 1: The Shriners, 2: The Jesters, 3: Prince Hall Freemasonry and 4: York Rite Masonry; all of which are Masonic organisations.

In my opinion, of those four, the only one I would agree with is the Shriners. I've seen no evidence whatsoever concerning the initiation rituals of the Jesters, nor evidence of hazing ritual in the York Rite. (I don't recall seeing specific proof of hazing in Prince Hall either, but I tend to ignore the bulk of your useless posts anyway.)

There are 266 posts on this thread and there is ample evidence to suggest that hazing rituals occur in 1: The Shriners, 2: The Jesters, 3: Prince Hall Freemasonry and 4: York Rite Masonry; however since you admit that you are replying to posts which you either have not bothered to read or that you do not have sufficient literary skills to allow you to read, I will consider your response to be the "usual" contradiction and abuse which is typical of the Masonic gang here.

However thank you for your admission that hazing rituals occur in Shriner Masonry (in addition to their prostitute and stripper parties), an organisation which "approximately" a third of all US Freemasons belong to.

Just as a reminder; for example:

1: Prince Hall Masonry

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Although this thread is about the financial corruption of two Masonic side degrees, the Shriners and Jesters, it has also become an opportunity for Masons to express their cult denialism that hazing rituals occur in Masonry.

The following story appears to indicate that holy and sacred "paddling" rituals are also part of the "Prince Hall" Masonry

Mannheim soldier’s death has element of Masonic mystery

www.stripes.com...

GI found dead hours after scheduled secretive rite

European edition, Sunday, February 12, 2006

Questions loom involving the details of Spc. Donald Anthony’s death. An autopsy was inconclusive.

Masonic history 101

The Masons are a secret society that dubs itself the world’s oldest and largest fraternity. Masons rise in rank by performing degree-work.

Prince Hall Masons, made up primarily of black men, began in Massachusetts about 200 years ago as an offshoot of the early Masonic lodges in America. The African Lodge was organized on July 3, 1776, with Prince Hall as the worshipful master.

The African Lodge grew and prospered to such a degree that Prince Hall was appointed a provincial grand master in 1791. Out of this grew the first Black Provincial Grand Lodge.

In 1847, out of respect for their founding father and first grand master, Prince Hall, the three existing African lodges changed their name to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, the name it carries today.

Today, some 5,000 lodges and 47 grand lodges exist that trace their lineage to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge, Jurisdiction of Massachusetts.

The Prince Hall lodge to which Spc. Donald Anthony Wilder belonged in Mannheim, Germany, falls under the purview of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington and Jurisdiction. Prince Hall lodges under the state of Washington grand lodge can be found in Germany, Iceland, Japan, Okinawa, South Korea, Turkey and the United Kingdom. The office of the Prince Hall in Kuwait is listed at Camp Arifjan.

The Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Maryland has jurisdiction over several lodges in Germany that have their meetings on military installations. Installation commanders determine if private groups — such as the Masons — can meet on military facilities, said Air Force Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Department of Defense spokeswoman.

Most scholars believe Masonry arose from the guilds of stonemasons who built castles and cathedrals of the middle ages. In 1717, Masonry created a formal organization when four lodges in London joined to form England’s first Grand Lodge.

The Masons perform charitable services as well. The Shrine Masons (Shriners) operate the largest network of hospitals for burned and orthopedically impaired children in the country, and there is never a fee for treatment. The Scottish Rite Masons maintain a nationwide network of more than 150 Childhood Language Disorder Clinics, Centers, and Programs.

— Steve Mraz

Sources: www.princehall.org, Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington Web site, Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Maryland Web site, Grand Lodge of Virginia Web site.

MANNHEIM, Germany — Weeks before Spc. Donald Anthony Wilder was found dead in a barracks shower, his parents say, he told them he knew he was going to be beaten.

On Jan. 7, Wilder, 21, was set to become a third-degree Mason with the Prince Hall Masons in Mannheim. A radio communication security controller repairman with the 512th Maintenance Company, Wilder had become active with the Prince Hall Masons in the fall of 2005.

The Prince Hall Masons are a predominantly black, secretive brotherhood. Similar to other branches of Masons, the group offers networking opportunities and performs community service. Several U.S. troops in Europe and around the world belong to the Prince Hall Masons.

In order to become a third-degree Mason, Wilder knew he would have to endure being beaten on his buttocks with a paddle by fellow Masons.




His plan was to get so drunk for the Jan. 7 ceremony that he wouldn’t feel the pain of the beatings, according to a friend, Spc. Tony d’Ercole. His mother, Diane Wilder, said her son told her that if he got so drunk that he passed out, his fellow Masons would take his blows.

On Jan. 8, just hours after the evening ceremony that took place inside Mannheim American High School at Benjamin Franklin Village, Wilder was found dead in a friend’s shower in the barracks at Spinelli Barracks in Mannheim.

An autopsy performed last month at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center was inconclusive, pending further studies, which are due back next week. Marie Shaw, a Landstuhl spokeswoman, said preliminary findings show Wilder experienced a “sudden, unexpected death.”

Wilder’s actions during the days leading to his death have been outlined by a friend, d’Ercole and his mother.

The Prince Hall grand lodge that has jurisdiction of the lodge with which Wilder was active issued an edict against hazing just 10 days after Wilder died.

“Be it hereby known and acknowledged that there will be no hazing or un-Masonic conduct of any sort tolerated during degree work within the Jurisdiction of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington and Jurisdiction,” the Jan. 18 letter stated. “Any such behavior that is determined to be inappropriate will be dealt with swiftly and unequivocally per our code on un-Masonic conduct.”

The letter was signed by Wendell O. Hutchings, the lodge’s grand master.

In a telephone interview, Hutchings said his group is investigating what happened at the initiation ceremony. He said paddling is forbidden.

He called what happened Jan. 7 an isolated incident and said it was not reflective of the Prince Hall Masons as a whole.

“Those individuals responsible are certainly going to be dealt with swiftly,” he said. “We are going to make a decision on those individuals who participated in that initiation.”

Last days

Donald Wilder’s parents say their son told them quite a bit about the Masons, except for the group’s secrets. He talked about the good work he did with the Masons. The group raised money for Hurricane Katrina victims and for the college funds of children of U.S. troops killed in action. He told them about the roughly $1,000 in dues he paid since September to be a Mason.





Also, he told them about the paddlings he took when he became a first- and second-degree mason last fall: how he would lie in his bed at Spinelli Barracks in Mannheim, icing his body after the paddlings, his mother said.

“He talked about the beatings a lot … and he was very afraid of them,” Diane Wilder said from her home in Seal Rock, Ore. “Prior to the … ceremony, he was throwing up because he was so nervous, that’s what we were told.”

He said the beatings were to show the other Masons just how badly you want to be a member.

“ ‘If you can’t put up with a little discomfort for a little while in order to do some good for people, you don’t want it that much,’ he told us,” she said.

On Christmas, Diane Wilder talked to her son twice. During those conversations, she says, Donald Wilder expressed concern about the paddlings he knew awaited him.

“His plan was to get so drunk that he wouldn’t have to take all the beatings,” Diane Wilder said.

His parents told him not to go through with it. They would pay for him to join the Masons in Texas where he was set to be reassigned by the Army.

“There was something about it, obviously, we didn’t like,” Diane Wilder said. “It made us nervous. It just didn’t seem right.”

The week before his death, the Wilders talked to their son every other day. On Jan. 5 — three days before he died — Wilder promised his mother he would not go through with the third-degree ceremony, she said.

Donald Wilder would not stay true to his word.

“I think he just decided not to tell us because we disapproved,” Diane Wilder said.

Also on Jan. 5, Wilder went to Murphy’s Law Irish Pub in Mannheim. He met friends that evening, including Maria Testai, a German acquaintance, and d’Ercole, a soldier in Wilder’s unit who served with him in Iraq.

The two soldiers talked for about an hour at the bar, d’Ercole said, and Wilder seemed relaxed. Testai said Wilder told her that he would like to go to a movie with her during the coming weekend.

On Jan. 6, Wilder ate dinner with a friend and the friend’s wife. It was there that he told the couple his plan about getting drunk for the following evening’s ceremony, d’Ercole said.

On Jan. 7 — the night Wilder was set to become a third-degree Mason — he called Testai around 8 p.m. and told her he was going to the “party,” she said.


“I have another friend married to an American,” Testai said. “She told me about the Masons. She told me that they would beat up the people and drink a lot when they have parties. I didn’t like it so I didn’t ask for more.

“He sounded, I don’t know, not really nervous,” Testai said. “He talked a lot. I don’t know if excited is the right word.”

The initiation ceremony took place inside Mannheim American High School. The group initially requested to use the facility on Jan. 6. Because of school rehearsals, the high school was not available, said Dennis Bohannon, public affairs officer for Department of Defense Dependents Schools-Europe.

A key to the school was checked out to the Masons on Jan. 5. The group used the key to enter the facility without authorization on Jan. 7, Bohannon said.

When asked how school officials knew that the Masons were in the facility on Jan. 7, Bohannon said, “someone in the school has personal knowledge.”

After the ceremony, Donald Wilder went out clubbing, his mother said.

Sometime during the morning of Jan. 8, Wilder was found lying unconscious and unresponsive in the shower of a friend’s room at Spinelli Barracks, said Diane Wilder. Medical professionals, military police and the German police were called to the scene.

Shortly after noon, Spc. Donald Anthony Wilder, a 21-year-old veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, was pronounced dead.

Officially speaking

To date, no charges have been preferred against anyone in relation to Wilder’s death. Until further autopsy studies are complete, it is unknown whether Wilder died of alcohol poisoning or something else.

Officially, the command that Wilder’s unit comes under is working with the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command, known as CID, to find out what happened.

“We have multiple, ongoing investigations to ensure that the facts are known and everything that can be done to prevent this from happening to other soldiers,” said Maj. Allen Hing, 21st Theater Support Command public affairs officer.

To protect the integrity of its investigation, CID is not releasing details of the investigation at this time, said Christopher Grey, CID spokesman.

Soldiers are not prohibited from joining such groups as the Masons. D’Ercole estimated about six or seven soldiers in his roughly 250-man unit are Masons.

2: York Rite Masonry

Specifically "Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493."

Guillotines and Guns

A Ritual Gone Fatally WrongPuts Light on Masonic Secrecy
By PATRICK HEALY
Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2004

hazingmasonic.blogspot.com...

PATCHOGUE, N.Y., March 9 � The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge here had been bathed in secrecy over the years. The climax of Monday night's ceremony was to be a simple prank. A new member of the Fellow Craft Club, a select group within the lodge, would sit in a chair while an older member stood 20 feet away and fired a handgun loaded with blanks.



That ritual went terribly wrong inside Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493, in a basement littered with rat traps, tin cans, a 9-foot-tall guillotine, and a setup designed to mimic walking a plank.

The shooter, a 76-year-old Mason, Albert Eid, was carrying two guns, a .22-caliber handgun with blanks in his left pocket, and a .32-caliber gun with live rounds in his right pocket.

He reached into his right pants pocket, pulled out the wrong gun and shot William James, a 47-year-old fellow Mason, in the face, killing him, the authorities said.

Mr. Eid, a World War II veteran who had a license to carry his own pistol and often did, pleaded not guilty Tuesday afternoon to a charge of second-degree manslaughter and was released on $2,500 bail. He was wearing his blue Masonic jacket during his arraignment in Central Islip.

Suffolk County Police called the shooting an accident, the consequence of one man's confusion. The fatality exposes this secret society, centuries old, to a rare degree of public scrutiny.

Late Monday night, police carried evidence and ritual objects out of the Masons' one-story lodge in Patchogue. All day Tuesday, television reporters and curious neighbors examined the club's bricked-over windows and peered into the front door to glimpse a bulletin board announcing the order's recent charity efforts.

Masonic leaders statewide were quick to disavow the ritual and shooting, saying it was not Masonic custom to shoot guns at other members. Ron Steiner, a spokesman for the New York State Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, which oversees all Masonic lodges in the state, said the social club was not officially tied to the Masonic organization.

"This is so far beyond the concept of reality it's mind-boggling," Mr. Steiner said. "I've never heard of anything like this."

Mystery and suspicion are woven into the history of the Freemasons, who trace their roots to the stone workers' guilds that built medieval Gothic cathedrals. The guilds evolved into secret clubs over the years with secret handshakes and rituals, and symbols like an all-seeing eye, pyramid and compass.

Over the years, the Southside Masonic Lodge members developed their own initiation rituals for the social club in the lodge that set them apart from most other Masonic organizations, members said. No members of the lodge could remember pistols being used in the rituals (they are not allowed in inside Masonic clubhouses), but some described initiations that were part prank, part exercise in trust.

One member, Michael Paquette, said that when he was initiated into the group five years ago, two mouse traps were placed before him, and he was told that one worked, and one was broken, he said. Another member tested the broken trap, then told Mr. Paquette to touch the live one. He did, and discovered that it, too, was a dud.

"It was really harmless things," Mr. Paquette said. "It was just for you to be there and realize you were in good hands, and you didn't have to fear anything."

On Monday night, Mr. James and Mr. Eid were among 10 men who set to performing the club's initiation.

Mr. James, the first to be initiated, sat down in a chair, and two tin cans were placed on a shelf by his head. The idea was for Mr. Eid to fire two blank rounds, and a man standing behind Mr. James would knock the cans down with a stick. And then it happened.

"This is a tragedy," said Mr. Eid's lawyer, James O'Rourke. "He is absolutely beyond grief-stricken. This is a mistake, not a criminal act."

The Southside Masons are mostly middle-aged or retired men who come from middle-class backgrounds. The group once included about 500 members, but membership here and at other Masonic lodges has fallen over the years, and the group now has about 150 members, said Peter Berg, a member. There are about 67,000 Masons across New York State, and their numbers rose slightly last year, for the first time in a decade, Mr. Steiner said.

Orders like the Southside Masons seem more concerned today with Christmas parties and raising money for blood drives and children's charities than ritual.

While Mr. James had only joined the Southside Masons in December, Mr. Eid had been a member for more than 30 years, other members said.

"He's always there," Mr. Paquette said of Mr. Eid. "He put most of his free time into the lodge."

Fewer Masons knew Mr. James, but officials with the Town of Brookhaven, where he worked for the Planning Department, described him as a friendly man who seemed deeply devoted to his family. Mr. James's wife, Susan, said she had no idea what was happening at the Masons' lodge the night he was shot.

"This is so very sudden, and I'm just very upset," she said outside the couple's home in Medford. "To me, it was just a social thing."

3: Jester Masonry

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by no1smootha

 

DeMoulins Bros side degree paraphernalia

Whats that?

www.phoenixmasonry.org...

Many side degrees will thrust an application form your way at the slightest hint of any interest so be prepared for that!
www.thefreemason.com...

Sicne the thread is on the "Shriners and Jesters," the Shriners and Jesters are "side degrees;" they are organisations that one cannot join unless one first joins a "regular" Masonic lodge; it has been said that many men join Masonry simply in order to join such "side degrees," such as the Shriners and Jesters where they can enjoy functions with strippers and prostitutes which are paid for with charity funds.

In Masonry there seems to be cults within cults within cults, for men who have masochistic tendencies and who like to by humiliated, degraded, abused and made submissive by other men.

Lux

ROJ Wives Club says:
August 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm
After 30 years of marriage to a Shriner I finally realized what a life I wasted with someone who lies, cheats and deceives me. My husband joined the Freemasons after we had been married about 5 years and being the narcissist that he is things quickly got out of hand –he is currently a member of 15+ organizations. It doesn’t stop with the Shrine there are spin off organizations they join such as the Royal Order of Jesters, Order of the Q, Billiken Clubs, Jesters on Wheels, etc. that keep them gone on weekends and will drain your bank accounts. These organizations promote immoral activities that are published as STAG events that include prostitution. Over the years while doing the wash I found call girl cards, phone numbers, Viagra, and other memorabilia in my husband’s pockets after he returned from the “Books”. These Books are nothing more than excuses to leave your wife and family and do whatever you want – your marriage vows are checked at the door. What goes on behind the secret Shrine/ROJ curtain stays behind the curtain. They will lie to your face and in court to protect each other. One protection they can’t offer is from HIV – Jester Girls should be tested more often. I recommend to other wives that you have your husband HIV tested regularly if he joins any of these organizations or your life will be in danger and not just from his threats. The Sam Houston email regarding the Royal Order of Jesters is not isolated to Texas and New York this behavior exists in every state under the fraternal cloak of darkness. They are brainwashed to acknowledge Hiram Abiff as their savior and to believe in a supreme being that is not Jesus Christ. Like they say SO LET IT BE


HEATHER J. says:
September 24, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I am divorced after 30 yrs of marriage to a ROJ member. He was a respected educator esteemed by the community where we lived, worked, farmed and raised our children. We were not wealthy but he was accepted as a member of the ROJ on the recommendation of his very wealthy brother and on the condition that he do the “secretarial” work for his court. He did not like this job since he felt it was demeaning. When I once asked him why he agreed to do it, his response was “because I would not be able to be a Jester any other way.” He is a Mason and rose to respected leadership and honour in that order. He subsequently joined the Shrine. I had always been a supportive partner in all of his extracurricular activities related, inter alia, to Masonry and Shrinedom. Our marriage had been one that was based on love, hard work, trust and mutual respect. But then my husband joined the ROJ. He was away many weekends, out of the country and at Books of the Play in our country. These diversions strained our budget in a huge way. Over time, our relationship, and my husband’s relationship with our aware and intelligent teenagers began deteriorating. He was aloof, often in a bad mood, uncommunicative and unsupportive of anything to do with mutual or family activities. He acted like he did not like any of us anymore. (It was himself he didn’t like anymore!) He did, however, always tell me upon returning from a ROJ event, of all the activities that went on there – much of which has been written about on various related websites recently. I could not condone this behaviour of the many men I knew who were Jesters, but at that point, I still believed my husband when he said he did not engage in any of these activities. I often directly challenged him on how he could purport to adhere to the morals and principles espoused by Masonry and still turn a blind eye to the behaviour of his “Masonic” friends and family members who had become members of the ROJ. One day he informed me that he did not want to be married anymore. I could not understand why, initially. It was when we were well into the legal separation stage that my son, of all people, told me what his father had been up to all this time. My husband had earlier in the year taken our son into his confidence and subsequently to one of the out of country weekends to educate him as to what went on at these events – I guess as a means of educating our son in the ways of manhood and manly activities. At that point, my husband was having an affair with a woman in the US and also having affairs when in home country ROJ territory. Some educator! Some education! I was appalled, angry, disgusted, betrayed and completely ambushed and damaged by this information. The rest is very painful history and now belongs in my past – not my present. My children are now married with children of their own. Their father is part of their lives once again, but that is due to their initiative and courage to engage with him in recent years. He is still a very active Jester and travels to the BOP’s many time a year. He and I still must connect politely at family gatherings. He still seems in need of my friendship from time to time and I remain detached and cool, but I keep the peace. I have paid a very painful price for this peace. No, I do not have anything good to say about Jesters or this organization of primarily very wealthy (but incredibly selfish and narcissistic hedonists), influential men from around the world. I know too much. And many of the Jesters I know, know I know too much. The behaviour of adult, seemingly successful and intelligent men at the various venues of the ROJ does nothing but bring sadness to my soul. I thought, rather naively I suppose, that overall male intelligence and moral decency had risen considerably above the level of the “the other head” in recent generations. How wrong I feel about that now. I do not understand why a group of men must have a “secret” and exclusive club to engage in deviant sexual (as morally and legally defined) behaviour and other non-mainstream activities such as cock and dog fights. There are surely enough other venues, opportunities and freedom of choice these days for any adult man or woman to have their non-mainstraim needs met. Why the need for disguising as “phun” and secretly condoning such behavior in a group comprised mainly of so-called “elitists”? Sick, sicker and sickest. There is, IMHO, absolutely no merit to this Masonic/Shrine offshoot organization whatsoever. Thanks for the opportunity to rant.

www.freemasoninformation.com...

But sources close to the investigation and former Jesters from other parts of the country tell a different story, one of bizarre activities — including routinely hiring prostitutes for gatherings, sex competitions and degrading initiation rites for new members — at many Jesters outings, with off-duty police hired to keep nonmembers away......

Last August Martin (the Jester's president) sent a directive to all 191 local chapters, forbidding the following conduct during initiation ceremonies:

• “Any type of physical brutality, such as whipping, beating, striking, branding, electronic shocking [or] placing of a harmful substance on the body.”

• Sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement to small spaces, or other activity that subjects Jesters to “an unreasonable risk of harm.”

www.noonehastodietomorrow.com...

I think that in the above example it should be obvious that if the cult leader of Jester Masonry sent a "directive" to all Jester Masonic Lodges forbidding “Any type of physical brutality, such as whipping, beating, striking, branding, electronic shocking [or] placing of a harmful substance on the body.” and Sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement to small spaces, or other activity that subjects Jesters to “an unreasonable risk of harm.” that it is quite obvious that such hazing rituals had been occurring.



I am really rather annoyed that no Freemason on this forum has yet taken up my offer of lower prices for being whipped, paddled, branded with hot irons, electrocuted and sexually humiliated.

I would like to assure all Masonic slaves here that I am not a virgin to the world of gay BDSM and that I can be much more sadistic that the rather tame and silly descriptions of Masonic hazings, simulated executions, mild electrocutions and sexual humiliation, and that I have a fully equipped torture chamber available for their every need at much lower prices than offered by the Masonic masters for such ritual submission and humilation and that I can be utterly deviod of mercy towards religious cultists, submissives and Capitalist gang members. I should also add that I have soundproofing so that no neighbours will complain about the incessant screaming, and that I have video camera equipment which will allow me to film and distribute the ritual humilations in order that "public humiliation" can also take place. I think that this is a much better offer than anything offered by the Jester Masons, Shriner Masons, Prince Hall masons or York Rite Masons.

His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

"No Mercy on they who deserve none"

reply to post by Lucifer777

Maybe I missed the post, but I don't remember you talking about hazing in the York Rite? You don't have to repost, just tell me page or give me the link.

Actually that shooting took place outside the power of the Lodge and the Order. It was not a recognized club. It was a local little club where a prank went horribly wrong. Guns or shooting has nothing to do with any Masonic ritual.

reply to post by Lucifer777

Well, I'm just going to speak on the York Rite here. Where do I begin? For one, the York Rite uses such terms as Chapter, Council, and Commandery, not Lodge. If you are talking about Lodge you're usually talking about the Blue Lodge (or Craft Masonry and sometimes referred to as a Symbolic Lodge). As a Past High Priest of the Royal Arch and an elected officer of the Council and Commandery, I will say we do not use a guillotine

Masonic leaders statewide were quick to disavow the ritual and shooting, saying it was not Masonic custom to shoot guns at other members. Ron Steiner, a spokesman for the New York State Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, which oversees all Masonic lodges in the state, said the social club was not officially tied to the Masonic organization.

Like I said above, this was a club made up by the locals. This was very much a localized problem, not a mainstream club.

This story though has nothing to do with the York Rite. So, please I'll wait for you to show me where we haze someone in the York Rite.

As i'v stated i think some of these hazings have happened but i don't think it's widespread trust me if History Channel or other networks got storys of this stuff we would here about it and would be way to juicy not too....

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Maybe I missed the post, but I don't remember you talking about hazing in the York Rite? You don't have to repost, just tell me page or give me the link.

Actually that shooting took place outside the power of the Lodge and the Order. It was not a recognized club. It was a local little club where a prank went horribly wrong. Guns or shooting has nothing to do with any Masonic ritual.

reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Well, I'm just going to speak on the York Rite here. Where do I begin? For one, the York Rite uses such terms as Chapter, Council, and Commandery, not Lodge. If you are talking about Lodge you're usually talking about the Blue Lodge (or Craft Masonry and sometimes referred to as a Symbolic Lodge). As a Past High Priest of the Royal Arch and an elected officer of the Council and Commandery, I will say we do not use a guillotine

Masonic leaders statewide were quick to disavow the ritual and shooting, saying it was not Masonic custom to shoot guns at other members. Ron Steiner, a spokesman for the New York State Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, which oversees all Masonic lodges in the state, said the social club was not officially tied to the Masonic organization.

Like I said above, this was a club made up by the locals. This was very much a localized problem, not a mainstream club.

This story though has nothing to do with the York Rite. So, please I'll wait for you to show me where we haze someone in the York Rite.

Carl Fitje, grand master of the New York State Freemasons (search), issued a statement Tuesday denying that guns play a role in any officially sanctioned lodge ceremonies.

"We don't use pistols," Steve Mayo, who described himself as a senior deacon of the lodge, told reporters Tuesday. "This is not a Masonic ceremony where we bring pistols."

However, (detective) Fitzpatrick said members told police the rite involving a gun goes back at least 70 years.

hazingmasonic.blogspot.com...

What I think is ocurring here is rather typical cult denialism and obfuscation (confusion, intentional ambiguity),

Clearly the "Grand Master" of New York Freemasonry also had a spate of denialism, and yet cult members of the particular lodge are reported to have told police that the rite involving a "gun" goes back at least 70 years; further since there was also a guillotine in the lodge, we know from the Demoulin side degree catalogue that such equipment was being sold to lodges in the 1930's.

Masonry, Freemasonry, Freemasons and cult Obfuscation.

Clearly the terms "Masonry" and "Freemasonry" can be used as abstract terms; "Masonry" can be simply a Mason's mental concept of what "Masonry" is to the particular cultist or what it should be, just as the the useage of the term "true Christianity" by Fred Phelps is a mental concept which may have little to do with the concept of Christianity held by other competing religious fanatics in the multi-billion dollar Jesus marketplace. Nevertheless "Masonry" has no indpendent existence apart from "Freemasons (i.e., persons who are Freemasons) and it is quite clear that "Freemasons" engage in rather silly hazing rituals.

Thus for the sake of avoiding cult obfuscation and denialism, let us just say that "Freemasons" are involved in hazing rituals and in Masonic hazing initiations, and that such initiations are very much a part of Freemasonry as far as such cultists are concerned, even if persons such as yourself prefer to go into fits of denialism over the matter.

Thus your statement "Guns or shooting has nothing to do with any Masonic ritual." is clearly a false statement and if we were using the rules of evidence of a court room, I would demand that you be charged with perjury for that simple statement alone, and that "all" of your cult apologetics be considered to be the ramblings of an established perjurer.

Consider the following use of language..

New York Mason failed initiation - shot dead

A Freemason was killed during an initiation ceremony at a Masonic Lodge in New York earlier this month.

www.theinsider.org...

With regards to "New York Mason failed initiation" firstly it is clear that the men involved were Masons and that the shooting ritual was some form of Masonic cult "initiation," and further the term "during an initiation ceremony at a Masonic Lodge" would appear to be accurate since the initiation did occur in a "Masonic Lodge"

Eid, a World War II veteran who had a license to carry his own pistol and often did, pleaded not guilty Tuesday to a charge of manslaughter. He was wearing his blue Masonic jacket during his arraignment. The Suffolk County police called the shooting an accident, the consequence of one man's confusion during a decades-old ritual.

www.theinsider.org...

Again it is clear that "Eid" was obviously a Freemason and that the ritual is described as being a "decades-old ritual," thus establishing that it was not a one off event; further the Demoulin side degree catalogue from the 1930's does have a variety of imitation guns for sale and some of the illustrations describes their use in cult hazing initiations.

One member, Michael Paquette, said that when he was initiated into the group five years ago, two mouse traps were placed before him, and he was told that one worked and one was broken. Another member tested the broken trap and then told Paquette to touch the live one. He did and discovered that it, too, was a dud. He also had to cross an elevated plank without looking down and was told that if he fell he would tumble into "a bed of fire."

www.theinsider.org...

I should point out that such rituals really seem to have more in common with US college fraternity and sorority pranks and would appear to me to be rather silly and childish as opposed to "Satanic" or diabolical in any way.

There are many different jurisdictions of governance of Freemasonry, each sovereign and independent of the others, and usually defined according to a geographic territory.

...........


Lodge buildings have for many years been known as Temples. In many countries this term has now been replaced by Masonic Centre. (Shriners and their Temples.)

In North America, Masonic Lodges are typically known as "Blue Lodges", and are the foundation of a collection of further "appended" Masonic groups or bodies: York Rite, Scottish Rite and The Shrine. To be a member of these other bodies, a man must pay dues to a Blue Lodge. The Blue Lodge and its ceremonies establish the fundamental bond which makes all Masons "brothers", and is the cement which binds all other appendant Masonic bodies together.

Some specific specialist lodges exist within many Masonic jurisdictions.

www.crystalinks.com...

Of course, because we have all these different Masonic sects (sections) then when one Masonic sect or side degree can be shown to have bizarre initiation rituals, a member of a competing Masonic cult franchise can say "Oh that is nothing to do with Masonry" however this is clearly a false statement, just as if "Fred Phelps" was to claim that the Roman Catholics are not Christians,

Mondays ceremony (when the shooting ocurred) was an initiation into the Fellow Craft, which is the second degree within the Masonic system. Masonic officials described Fellow Craft as a social organization within the club, involving active members who participate in fund-raising and other charitable activities.

www.masonicpaedia.org...

Mayo said the Monday night ceremony was an initiation into the Fellow Craft (search), which is the second degree within the multilevel Masonic system.

hazingmasonic.blogspot.com...

The York Rite.

My understanding was that Albert Eid who fired the fatal bullet at the second degree Southside Masonic Lodge initiation ceremony in New York was a York Rite Mason; however having searched Google, I can no longer find the source of this and thus I think it better to restate this as "American Blue Lodge Masonry" rather than "York Rite Masonry."

Thus my amended and updated statement would read:

"I think that it is safe to say that it can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that "hazing rituals" occur in 1: The Shriners, 2: The Jesters, 3: Prince Hall Freemasonry and 4: American Blue Lodge Masonry; all of which are Masonic organisations."

I hope that this meets with your satisfaction. I would further like to thank you for your hard work, assistance and cooperation in filling this thread with myriads of Masonic keywords and pushing it on to Google front page for many "Masonic" related searches. I would like to encourage you in your continued efforts with your cult denialism, deception and obfuscation.



Religious Fatigue

It is my view that the more one studies the rtuals and beliefs of the many religious cults in the world today, often the more and more jaded one becomes with the study and that the academic field of the "Study of Religion" which often begins as a serious academic study, usually transforms into "The Study of Human Stupidity," and the "Study of Mass Hypnosis and Indoctrination." Generally for those who take their religoius cult membership seriously there are generally two categories of persons, A: The perpetrators: those who profit by organised religion and B: The victims: those who are vulnerable to religious hypnosis and indoctrination. However unfortunately many of the victims become perpetrators and seek to spread their memetic virus to others and among such types appear to be many of the cult apologists and "trolls for religious cultism" who populate the Internet.

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner

Lucifer, please, just for me, reveal to us all what your true incentive is on these threads because the more you inult and throw insults at the masons the more I can't help but think that you aren't telling us the full story. You have had a bad experience with these guys, I think. Why not tell us the truth behind what powers these attacks?

I would really be interested to hear that story...

Just to restate, my interests are in "describing" the Masons from the perspective of the scientific "Study of Religion" which is a "describing process" which has to take into account the perspectives of Masons, anti-Masons, apostate Masons and critics of Masonry; otherwise I could be accused of lacking in objectivity; I think that the responses from Masons on this thread adequately establishes that they typically practice obfuscation, deception and cult denialism and frankly almost all religious cultists are like this in my experience; they are able to criticise competing cults, but they often suspend their critical thinking and prctice deception when it comes to their own cult.

I would also like to state that I do not define myself as an "anti-Mason" but rather as an anti-cultist and anti-religionist and as an opponent and critic of "all" forms of organised religion and "all" organised Capitalist gangs, and I think that this is a commonplace view among all ideological Anarchists and Communists such as myself. If there are Freemasons who are Communists / anti-Capitalists, Anarchists and opponents of organised religion, I would question what on earth they are doing in a Capitalist religious cult such as Masonry.

"The criticism of religion is the premise of all criticism." Marx

The critical analysis of religious cultism is fundamental to the current propaganda war against the memetic virus of religion and of "Capitalist gang culture," which often is entwined with religious and pseudo-religious ritualism. Religious hypnosis and indoctrination tends to produce a religious cultist who believes that they are "good" or on some sacred and holy mission (just as many Nazis believed that they were "good2 Nazis), when in fact, from a Communist perspective they may well be evangelical militant imperialistic Anglo-American state terrorist, narco-terrorist colaborators, and I have found this to be the case with many Masonic cultists and Masonic apologists.


His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer





___________________

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by King Seesar

 

none of that is true. It comes from Bill Schnoebelen. who if you study his llife's accomplishments, it would be very hard for anyone who wasn't a complete and utter MORON to believe his stories.

Here is a timeline of Bill's work from his own site.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0d1a5dd7abdc.jpg[/atsimg]

Is he a truth searcher, or is he looking for money in telling stories? You decide for yourself.

I fully concede that Bill Schnoebelen is a Christian religious fanatic, and I consider "all" Christians to be either charlatans and profiteers of the multi-billion dollar Jesus business, who prey on the sick, the disabled and the vulnerable, religious schizophrenics or simply gullible and vulnerable victims of religious hypnosis and indoctrination.

Christian anti-Masonry

A major aspect of the "anti-Masonry" movement consists of cultists from competing name brands of the multi-billion dollar religion business attacking their competitors in the religious marketplace, where each brand name claims to have a superior product (or non product really, since the selling of salvation is about the selling of "no-thing") and offers a more effective form of hypnosis, indoctrination and "mental slavery." However, the academic "study of religion" is essentially almost exclusively about the study of this kind of stupidity, delusion and profiteering.

Were we to dismiss the claims of ex-Masons who have converted to other name brands in the religious marketplace, then I think this would be unfair; further Schnoebelen's claims of bizarre hazing rituals in Shriner Masonry (which includes participants of numerous other rites, such as the York rite, Scottish rite, etc., all of whom can be classed as having undergone "Blue Lodge" initiations) can be verified from the numerous other sources which litter this thread, including the admission of current Masons who concede that such bizarre hazing rituals do take place.

For example:

Originally posted by Lucifer777

A Scottish Rite "Chaplain's" Testimony of the "Holy and Sacred Rubber Penis" Shriner Initiation.

I was Chaplain in the Scottish rite and a degree master. In the blue Lodge I was senior deacon and preparing to be the junior warden, only two chairs away from the office of worshipful master. I was very busy with all this responsibility.

The following fall however, after the reunion, I decided it was time to enter the Shrine.
Mike had come into the Scottish rite at spring Reunion and now was eligible also.
We went into the Shrine together. I knew that the Shrine initiations got really rambunctious and wondered what might happen when they laid hands roughly on Mike. The initiation was performed in the Coliseum
before a very large crowd of Shriners who came to see the fun.

......

We began the initiation about noon that Saturday. After the medical screening came the hazing, which was very childish. Some of it was not only childish, but downright vulgar. At one point we were placed in a large, mesh cage, and one of the Shriners climbed up on top of it. He exposed a very convincing rubber penis which was connected to a water bag concealed in his clothing and hosed down all of us in the cage to the delighted howls of the spectators.

After the hazing it was time for the serious part, the ritual, and then time to take the oath. We took the obligation, again with terrible bloody consequences if we revealed any of the "secrets" (one form of mayhem we promised to accept was to have our "eyeballs pieced to the center with a sharp, three-edged blade"). And, with the Koran on the altar, we sealed our solemn oath in the name of "Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers." I had taken so many bloody oaths already (one for each degree) that I paid little attention to this one, except to notice that it, like the rest of the ritual, featured desert settings, Arabs and Allah, the Mohammedan god.

www.xs4all.nl...

edit on 25-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Added: "A Scottish Rite "Chaplain's" Testimony of Holy and Sacred "Rubber Penis" Shriner Initiation."

Further, were we to dismiss Schnoebelen's claims based on the unreliability of some of the statements he has made, I think it would only be fair to dismiss all your own cult apologetics here as you have clearly engaged in deception, cult denialism, obfuscation abuse and the constant contradiction of facts presented here; however I consider it to be of some importance that you continue to do so and for me to encourage you in this process; if Masonic cultists such as yourself engage in deception and the denailism of facts, it is important that they be allowed to present themselves in this way; otherwise this would give a false impression of Masonry to other scholars of religion.

It is my view that a critical and analytical (i.e., an analysis of facts, testimonials and accusations) view of Masonry will produce a more reliable understanding of the Masonic cultists themselves, which will perhaps dispel the more bizarre conspiracy theories regarding alleged Satanic rituals, baby eating, human sacrifice cultism and shape shifting reptilianism, all of which I have not found an iota of evidence for; although of course for many proponents of the competing name brands of religion, almost all competitors in the religious market place are essentially often considered to be "Satanists (i.e., "enemies," or devotees of a competing definition of the gods, or of a particular god or a competing "slavation" product) .

I can understand why you would not wish the most sacred and holy rituals of the "golden shower & rubber penis" initiations and the "simulated oral sex and dog urination" rituals and holy and sacred partying with prostitutes and strippers to be revealed to the "profane," as obviously the extreme sacredness and holiness of such behaviour can only be understood by the very elect and are not to be revealed to the unwashed rabble, however it is in the interests f the academic study of religion that such holy and sacred rites be revealed and can by subjected to critical analysis by non Masons.


Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"

it should be noted that anyone with a higher IQ than a grape and can read, could in fact go toDuncans ritual and find out everything that goes on in the fellowcraft degree. They could even read all three craft degrees desperately searching for the use of a firearm in any form or fashion. Upon not finding any reference to a firearm in that source, once might even venture out into the great abyss that is the internet and search for other references of the craft degrees searching for use of a firearm. Only to find that there is none. making any reference to a firearm being used in any of the craft degrees of masonry including that of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, or Master mason, completely false and slanderous.

In a court of law, a lawsuit would be filed and Lucifer777 would be found guilty of slander by a unanimous vote.
game, set, match.


always remember, just because 1 guy said it, doesn't make it true, even if it's what you want to hear.

Originally posted by Mason mike
it should be noted that anyone with a higher IQ than a grape and can read, could in fact go toDuncans ritual and find out everything that goes on in the fellowcraft degree.

On the most holy and sacred rituals of the military and religious order of the priesthood of the Holy Knights of Solomon's Temple.

Lucifer

Holy, Holy.




I don't dispute that the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation or "simulated oral sex" initiation or the "dog urination initiation" or the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, or the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals do not appear in the printed rituals which appear on Internet sites; however this does not mean that such holy and sacred rituals do not occur; similarly a responsible investigative journalist should not just accept US military propaganda that the US military does not engage in terrorism, torture, assassinations, black miltiary operations and narcotics trafficking, if there is evidence to the contrary; similarly the anti-cult movement would cease to exist and become redundant if they just accepted the propaganda of religious cultists themselves.

Might I suggest that you yourself may not yet be deeemed worthy to be intiated into the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation or "simulated oral sex" initiation or the "dog urination initiation" or the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, or the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals; however you should not assume, merely because of your own unworthiness to have such sacred and holy rituals revealed to you that they are not revealed to the very elect.

Further I find your statements to be entirely heretical, diabolical and blasphemous; your denilaism would appear to demean the holiness and sacredness of the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation, the "simulated oral sex" initiation, the "dog urination initiation" the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals and the holy and sacred sex parties with strippers and prostitutes. I consider your attitude to be thoroughly profane and that of the unwashed rabble who are unworthy to enter the Holy Temple and to have revealed to them the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation, the "simulated oral sex" initiation, the "dog urination initiation" the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals and the holy and sacred sex parties with strippers and prostitutes.



Not all are deemed worthy to have these great secrets of cult initiation revealed to them, as were revealed to our ancient master Hiram Abif by the most holy and most high god Herself in the ancient Temple of Solomon where only the very elect had "whipped cream and strawberries" applied to their genitals and were allowed to understand the secrets of the application of electric shocks to the genitals.

In a court of law, a lawsuit would be filed and Lucifer777 would be found guilty of slander by a unanimous vote.game, set, match.

This is simply the kind of simple abuse and contradiction without argument or evidence that is commonplace among drunks, football hooligans and children in a playground. An "argument" would show where I have made false accusations and offer evidence of that.

always remember, just because 1 guy said it, doesn't make it true, even if it's what you want to hear.

This thread is full of references which include police reports, FBI reports, testimony gven in court under oath, media articles and is awash with testimonial evidence of Masonic hazing rituals from various sources, it is not a matter of "one person" making such allegations.

As a general rule of course, all cult propaganda, apologetics, deception and obfuscation is welcome; anything I can do to assist Masonic cultists and apologists in presenting their generally abusive and cutl denialist behaviour to the world, I am only too happy to assist. Thank your for your continuing assistance.

His Satanic Majesty
Lucifer

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Clearly the "Grand Master" of New York Freemasonry also had a spate of denialism, and yet cult members of the particular lodge are reported to have told police that the rite involving a "gun" goes back at least 70 years...

I personally know someone who was in that lodge (they have since lost their charter). The initiation that they were performing was for a social group called The Fellowcraft Club. In my lodge we have a group called the Craftsmen Club which also, from conversation with my friend, do some similar events; fundraising, charity events, etc. which was the purpose of the club in New York.

The use of a gun is rather foolish and should have been prohibited. I can attest that there is no initiation for our club, there is onyl a $7 a year dues requirement and that the person be a Mason in good standing.

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by Mason mike
it should be noted that anyone with a higher IQ than a grape and can read, could in fact go toDuncans ritual and find out everything that goes on in the fellowcraft degree.

the group above has nothing at all to do with the first three degrees of masonry, or as we who know better like to call it "craft masonry"
But keep posting the pictures, over, and over, and over, and over again. eventually somebody that matters is going to get tired of your crap.

I don't dispute that the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation or "simulated oral sex" initiation or the "dog urination initiation" or the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, or the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals do not appear in the printed rituals which appear on Internet sites; however this does not mean that such holy and sacred rituals do not occur; similarly a responsible investigative journalist should not just accept US military propaganda that the US military does not engage in terrorism, torture, assassinations, black miltiary operations and narcotics trafficking, if there is evidence to the contrary; similarly the anti-cult movement would cease to exist and become redundant if they just accepted the propaganda of religious cultists themselves.

Might I suggest that you yourself may not yet be deeemed worthy to be intiated into the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation or "simulated oral sex" initiation or the "dog urination initiation" or the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, or the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals; however you should not assume, merely because of your own unworthiness to have such sacred and holy rituals revealed to you that they are not revealed to the very elect.

Further I find your statements to be entirely heretical, diabolical and blasphemous; your denilaism would appear to demean the holiness and sacredness of the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation, the "simulated oral sex" initiation, the "dog urination initiation" the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals and the holy and sacred sex parties with strippers and prostitutes. I consider your attitude to be thoroughly profane and that of the unwashed rabble who are unworthy to enter the Holy Temple and to have revealed to them the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation, the "simulated oral sex" initiation, the "dog urination initiation" the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals and the holy and sacred sex parties with strippers and prostitutes.

please, be gay in your mind, in your house, in your closet, bot don't openly exercise your homosexuality on this site. Your rite to be gay, ends with my right to not have to witness it.

In a court of law, a lawsuit would be filed and Lucifer777 would be found guilty of slander by a unanimous vote.game, set, match.

This is simply the kind of simple abuse and contradiction without argument or evidence that is commonplace among drunks, football hooligans and children in a playground. An "argument" would show where I have made false accusations and offer evidence of that.

You have every opportunity to prove that I am incorrect in my assertation that you are a complete liar and a fraud when making claims that craft masonry uses firearms in the ritual. As has been stated, a side club made up of members of 1 lodge did something stupid. It's only relationship with masonry is that it happened in a lodge. It was not part of the ritual as you claimed.

always remember, just because 1 guy said it, doesn't make it true, even if it's what you want to hear.

This thread is full of references which include police reports, FBI reports, testimony gven in court under oath, media articles and is awash with testimonial evidence of Masonic hazing rituals from various sources, it is not a matter of "one person" making such allegations.

again, read slowly for maximum understanding....

nowhere in craft masonry does a handgun get used. Stop lying

Originally posted by Mason mike
it should be noted that anyone with a higher IQ than a grape and can read, could in fact go toDuncans ritual and find out everything that goes on in the fellowcraft degree.

Actually, a close reading of Duncan's will show several important differences between the Duncan work and the actual work of the Lodge. Duncan's ritual has never been actually used by any Grand Lodge or Grand Chapter.

Obviously, there are no firearms in the Fellow Craft degree, or any other Masonic degree. The "Fellow Craft Club" had nothing in common with the Fellow Craft degree except a similar name.

wait a second, in my degree they used a gun. Ummm guys are you sure there are no guns in the fellowcraft degree?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Clearly the "Grand Master" of New York Freemasonry also had a spate of denialism, and yet cult members of the particular lodge are reported to have told police that the rite involving a "gun" goes back at least 70 years...

I personally know someone who was in that lodge (they have since lost their charter). The initiation that they were performing was for a social group called The Fellowcraft Club. In my lodge we have a group called the Craftsmen Club which also, from conversation with my friend, do some similar events; fundraising, charity events, etc. which was the purpose of the club in New York.

The use of a gun is rather foolish and should have been prohibited. I can attest that there is no initiation for our club, there is onyl a $7 a year dues requirement and that the person be a Mason in good standing.

I would not wish to claim or even imply that "all" Freemasons have been subjected to hazing rituals and are worthy of the holy and sacred application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals, etc. Bizzarre hazings apper to be particularly a phenomenon of American Masonry and appear to be endemic partcuarly among Shriner Masons and Jester Masons, and apears to occur in "some" other American Masonic Lodges. I have not come across any testominials or evidence that such things occur among English and Scottish Masons (I refer to Freemasons in England and Scotland, not to York rite or Scottish Masons in the US, since some of them are Shriner Masons and Jester Masons where hazing appears to be commonplace) .

Freemasonry is an international and diverse phenomenon with numerous Masonic Lodge franchises and side degrees; however I think it can be established that among Freemasons, such bizarre hazing rituals do take place, however this is not to suggest that "all" Masons are worthy of such holy and sacred BDSM style cult initiation and electrocution; such holy and sacred rites seem to be peculiar to advanced American degrees where Masons are invited to join other cults, once they have been initiated into the various Blue Lodge Masonic degrees. I do understand that there are numerous levels and degrees and that some initiates here may not be deemed worthy to have such holy and ancient secrets revealed to them as the "dog urination" or "imulated oral sex" rituals.

His Imperial Satanic Majesty
Lucifer


________

Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777

I don't dispute that the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation or "simulated oral sex" initiation or the "dog urination initiation" or the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, or the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals do not appear in the printed rituals which appear on Internet sites; however this does not mean that such holy and sacred rituals do not occur; similarly a responsible investigative journalist should not just accept US military propaganda that the US military does not engage in terrorism, torture, assassinations, black miltiary operations and narcotics trafficking, if there is evidence to the contrary; similarly the anti-cult movement would cease to exist and become redundant if they just accepted the propaganda of religious cultists themselves.

Might I suggest that you yourself may not yet be deeemed worthy to be intiated into the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation or "simulated oral sex" initiation or the "dog urination initiation" or the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, or the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals; however you should not assume, merely because of your own unworthiness to have such sacred and holy rituals revealed to you that they are not revealed to the very elect.

Further I find your statements to be entirely heretical, diabolical and blasphemous; your denilaism would appear to demean the holiness and sacredness of the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation, the "simulated oral sex" initiation, the "dog urination initiation" the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals and the holy and sacred sex parties with strippers and prostitutes. I consider your attitude to be thoroughly profane and that of the unwashed rabble who are unworthy to enter the Holy Temple and to have revealed to them the sacred and holy "rubber penis" initiation, the "simulated oral sex" initiation, the "dog urination initiation" the holy and sacred application of "whipped cream and strawberries" to the genitals, the application of holy and sacred electric shocks to the feet, posterior and genitals and the holy and sacred sex parties with strippers and prostitutes.

please, be gay in your mind, in your house, in your closet, bot don't openly exercise your homosexuality on this site. Your rite to be gay, ends with my right to not have to witness it.

I have always been openly bisexual and my current girlfriend could assure you that I am not a homosexual; however I have no objection to be referred to as a homosexual since I do not consider it to be insulting and I have many close friends who are openly gay or lesbian. My own sexuality has nothing to do with this matter, since this is purely about the academic study of religious cultism, with specific regards to the Masonic cultists and their behaviour, rituals and holy and sacred "secretive" initiations; I do understand that you are all under oath to protect the most sacred and holy rtuals such as the "dog urination" ritual from being exposed to the profane and the unworthy rabble of the unwahsed proletariat, however in the interests of a more accurate understanding of Freemasonry, the discussion of such holy and sacred hazing and simulated homo-erotic BDSM rituals is appropriate.

It is quite clear that many of the Masonic rituals involve homo-eroticism and BDSM style sexual humiliation, though they tend to be quite tame and they are generally "simulated only." This is the 21st century and most of the educated classes have discarded repressed Victorian Christian attitudes towards human sexuality; there is no good reason for Masons to be "in the closet" about their homo-erotic rituals; in fact I find them to be hilarious and hilarity is something which is often missing in the study of religion, which tends to be the study of rather boring and ridiculous beliefs and rituals which are often taken with extreme seriousness by hypnotised and indoctrinated cultists. I cannot imagine how any Freemason or non Mason could possibly take seriously the ancient and holy Egyptian rite of the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals or the sacred and holy rite of the "cross dressing" and sexual humilation of the Hula Hula Bull Dance, as practiced in the Holy Temple of Solomon by our beloved master and alleged human sacrifice cultist, the most blessed, Hiram Abiff; the lack of evidence that the holy priesthood of the ancient human sacrifice cult of Solomon were able to manufacture the required ice cream and whipped cream required for this holy and sacred ritual is probably because the manufacture of holy and sacred ice cream and whipped cream was one of the most closely guarded secrets for which the revealing of was punishible by throat cutting, tounge removal, body quartering and disembowlement.

You have every opportunity to prove that I am incorrect in my assertation that you are a complete liar and a fraud when making claims that craft masonry uses firearms in the ritual. As has been stated, a side club made up of members of 1 lodge did something stupid. It's only relationship with masonry is that it happened in a lodge. It was not part of the ritual as you claimed.

I consider myself to be scrupulously honest and I have not "lied" about anything; I have merely presented testimonials of Masons, ex-Masons, police reports, FBI reports and media articles; I have not witnessed any of this personally, and am merely utilising the research facilities of the Internet.

To establish the claim that a firearm was not part of a Masonic ritual, you would have to establish that the police and media reports regarding the shooting at a Masonic Lodge initiation was fraudulent; I suggest that you take the matter up with the New York state police and accuse them of bearing false witness and the fabrication of evidence. Clearly fake executions and fake handguns are not used in "all" Masonic rituals, and this has not been suggested in any way, however to suggest that Masons have never used fake executions, guilloutines and fake handguns would be obviously a entirely deceptive claim since there exists ample evidence to the contrary.

I would like to welcome and encourage all Masons to continue with their various presentations of temper tantrums, deception, abuse, obfuscation and cult denialism. Please feel free to just be yourselves. Since the Internet is used as a major research resource for historians, scholars, academics and students of the "study of Religion" and the "psychology of Religion," in the interests of furthering the academic study of Freemasonry, if you normally behave in such a manner when practicing cult apologetics, please continue to do so. Thank all very much for your assistance and contributions, and please let me know if there is anything I can do to assist and encourage further temper tantrums, cult denialsm, deception etc.


His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer

Originally posted by Lucifer777

I have always been openly bisexual and my current girlfriend could assure you that I am not a homosexual;

sorry sally, once a pickle smoker, always a pickle smoker. It's like doing shots of Tequila, once you have done a few, you can't stop the inevitable.

And just so you know, masonry is the same globally. So UK masons practice the same version we do here. And vice versa. I would start your witch hunt by questioning daddy and see how many times he has dealt with pistols in lodge assembled, or whipped cream as part of a ceremony. Just don't tell him about Bubba.

reply to post by Lucifer777


in closing, I am left with nothing but.....
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