On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

No BDSM occurs in Freemasonry. I know I wouldn't have gone through the degrees if this occurred. Plus, you cannot say what a small, rogue group did is mainstream. People who abuse the funds are usually expelled from that body.

Just to restate the allegations on this thread.

There are numerous Masonic lodge franchises and side degrees. This thread relates specifically to two Masonic "side degrees," the Shriners and Jesters. In the articles presented on this thread, I consider there to be reasonable evidence that there is endemic and widespread financial corruption in these Masonic side degress; it can also be established that both organisations appear to be an excuse for drunken revelry with strippers and prostitutes, and that this is reported to be "commonplace" in both organisations. Since the Shriners is a Masonic side degree which almost a third of all US Masons are alleged to belong to, I hardly consider that to be “a small, rogue group.”



There are also articles on this thread containing evidence that rather bizarre "BDSM" style hazing rituals occur in both these Masonic side degrees, and that this practice has also been reported to occur in "Prince Hall" Masonry. Further, in the case of Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493 in New York state, where a fatal shooting occurred during a bizzarre hazing initiation ritual, it has been alleged that the basement of the lodge contained "a 9-foot-tall guillotine, and a setup designed to mimic walking a plank ( hazingmasonic.blogspot.com... )."

There appears to be sufficient evidence to suggest that bizarre hazing rituals are "widespread" in Masonry, however this thread is littered with responses from Masons stating that such rituals do not occur in their own local lodge franchise. Since Freemasonry is part of the multi-billion dollar religious business, and which operates very much like a McDonald's franchise, there are 1000's of Masonic Lodge franchises, and since Masons are bound by oaths of secrecy, and have clearly been unashamedly deceptive on this thread, it is rather a hard task to get to the truth of the matter; however there is sufficient evidence of such hazing rituals in "some" Lodges.







Thus I think there is sufficient evidence to suggest that your statement “No BDSM occurs in Freemasonry,” is entirely untrue; it may well be the case that there are some Masonic Lodge franchises where such BDSM style hazing rituals do not occur, however this does not negate the widespread allegations that there are lodges where such rituals “do” obviously occur.

You insult all of us Masons with your allegations. You defaming our good name with a broad brush of lies.

I am more than happy to retract any of the allegations made here if shown to be untrue. If I have stated a single "lie" in this thread, please provide argument and evidence to this extent; however since you are implying that I am lying about something (without specifically stating what it is), I can do far more than "imply" that it is you who are lying about the general allegations made in this thread. When person in a debate is willing to lie and deceive in order to cover up the nature of US Masonry, that is simply feeding your critics and reinforcing their criticisms.

Since I have had no personal experience within American Masonry, I should point out that the allegations in this thread come from media reports and include testimonials by Masons themselves; thus since a main origin of such allegations “is” testimonials by Masons themselves, US media reports, and the FBI, I would suggest that you direct your criticisms and denialism towards such sources of the accusations.

What I think is occurring here on the pages of this thread is simply "cult denial-ism;" if American Masons wish to be better understood, and more open about their cult, why not just admit to such widespread hazing rituals and endemic, institutional corruption? I think it would probably assist you in recruiting more corrupt Capitalists for your gangs; and would assist your wives, families and indeed all anti-cultists in gaining a better understanding of your cult.

You do to have animosity towards the Freemasons. It is seen in every word you write, specifically those words that speak of committing genocide against the Freemasons.

With regards to "genocide" against Masons, you appear to be confusing me with someone else, however just to make my position perfectly clear on this, I do not consider myself to be an anti-Mason, but rather an ideological Communist, and therefore an anti-Capitalist and an opponent of organised Capitalist gangs and organised religions.

We have been witnessing since the end of World War Two, armed, violent, genocidal, imperalistic, "World Capitalist Revolution," and the primary instigator of this has been the US state-terrorists / narco-terrorists. Capitalism is a militant ideology, and thus Communism by necessity is also militant ideology.

In the Cuban revolution for example, where Cuba was economically a playground for the American Mafia, pimps, casino owners and US corporations, it was simply not possible to take a pacifist position against such gangs of militant Capitalists. Similarly I believe that there must come an age of revolutions "against" the Capitalist system, and that this will not be possible to carry out peacefully, since the many organised gangs of Capitalists are themselves militant.

Since you are a member of the US military, which has certainly been the most genocidal terrorist / narco-terrorist organisation of the 20th and 21st centuries, which has militantly advanced Capitalist revolution, I am certainly no more genocidal than your economic and military masters; I simply have a contrary political ideology.

As far as I am concerned, the Freemasons are an economically powerful Capitalist gang; one gang among many competing gangs in the world; however they possibly constitute "the" most powerful Capitalist gang in the world, and certainly they are the major established Capitalist gang in the UK.

With regards to the "wholesale genocide" of all Freemasons; other anti-Masons on this board may have suggested this; in fact the Christian anti-Masons tend to also be genocidally anti-Communist, and often consider both Communists and Masons to be Satanists. My personal position would be that in future wars and revolutions, "some" Masons may choose to side with the Communists / Socialists; thus I would only consider Masons who are ideologically Capitalist, and those who are willing to fight for the Capitalist system to be unworthy of life. That is a perfectly acceptable dialectical response, to militant, genocidal Capitalist state terrorism / narco-terrorism; however it is an ideological position, not a personal one; I am not personally an aggressive, violent person; on the contrary;



Freemasonry and the Study of Religion and Capitalist Gangs.

Part of the problem with studying organised gangs of Capitalists, is that by their nature, they tend to be secretive. Their gang members are not generally “open” to investigative journalism or academic research; indeed there have been numerous cases of Russian journalists who have been investigating endemic corruption in the Russian state, which is essentially an alliance between organised crime and government, and who have been assassinated. Almost any person investiating the gangs of Capitalism, is gong to expect some resistance, obfuscation and deception, such as that which has been presented in the various Masonic denialism and temper tantrums on this thread. .

Further, in the study of religious cults, it is generally a “ground-rule” that one must consider not only the propaganda of the cultists themselves, but also the writings of their critics and apostates (ex-cultists); and this is entirely appropropriate in the study of Freemasonry, irrespective of the fact that is is rare for a member of a religious cult to admit that they belong to a religious cult; similarly with Masonry.

It is quite common for religious cults to have “insider” secrets and rituals, etc. There have been numerous cases, for example, where the Scientologists have attempted to sue persons for revealing L.Ron Hubbard's OT (Operating Thetan) documents, which are usually only revealed to cultists after many years of membership. If a person can read such documents prior to being enticed by Scientology, I believe that they are so ridiculous, that a normal, modern educated person would be unlikely to join Scientology; similarly with Masonry, I can understand why there is a resistance to revealing their hazing rituals, since the “surprise” element would dissapear, if all potential recruits better understood the rituals they were going to be paying for, prior to joining. Further this process assists a better understanding of what Masonry really is about, rather than the numerous bizarre conspiracy theories which circulate about them.

Lux

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

None of the rituals I have gone through involved anything sexual or humiliating, quite the opposite in fact, the ceremonies are solemn and when done right, quite impressive. Again, there are no stripper events. Just because we're a fraternity doesn't mean we are homo-erotic. Not everything has to have a sexual connotation attached to it. You seem way too obsessed with sexuality.

The above is a response on the thread "On the "King of all the World (Hiram Abiff);" the Masonic Messiah & other Masonic Conspiracies"

Rather than just restating all the evidence which responds to the above claims, I am posting this response over here as this thread contains sufficient evidence and testimonials of the rather bizarre Masonic hazing rituals. Of course I am not suggesting that "all" Masonic cultists go through such "advanced" initiations as the sexual humiliation rituals and the funding of prostitute parties with charity funds. However, the general response from Ksigmason and other Masons on this thread is the "argument from ignorance" which is essentially "such things do not happen in my Masonic cult franchise, so therefore thay cannot be happening in any Masonic cult franchise."

I am reposting this here since it is relevant to this thread and the same "denialism" from Masonic gang members on ATS about the same issues keeps being raised and re-raised in numerous other threads.

Yawn.

Lucifer

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

Well the images of Masonic fancy dress costumes and Masonic hazing equipment are presented to give persons a better understanding of Masory; if you wish to explain what you consider to be the "true intent of use" of such fancy dress costumes and hazing equipment, please do so.







We have been over this time and time again on the 240+ posts on the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters" on www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just repeating the same old denialism over and over does not make it any more true.

To restate





Evidence.

In a court of law "evidence" is either "material" evidence or "testimonial" evidence. The evidence presented on the above thread is of both types; for example the images of hazing devices from Masonic supply catalogues is "material evidence" and the numerous testimonies on that thread from Masons and ex-Masons regarding hazing rituals, for example is testimonial evidence; constant denialism and abuse would not be accepted at a defence; you would have to establish that the material evidence had been fabricated or had nothing to do with Masonry and you would have to establish that the testimonial evidence of Masons and ex-Masons (including police reports in the case of the New York Msonic hazing ritual where a murder / manslaughter occurred) which establish that such rituals occur have been fabricated and are perjurous. That would be the basis of an intelligent argument; not your constant denialism and abuse.

Of course since you have consisently praciticed deception, obfuscation, denialism and made totally false statements in defence of your cult, in a court, you would be considered to be guilty of perjury and as being an unreliable witness, and a person of "no moral worth" whatsoever.





Not at all; in common with many religious cults, since Freemasonry is essentially a religoius cult franchise with many sects (sections), the study of "Freemasonry" would have to take into account as many of such sects as possible; however with regards to American Freemasonry, it would seem that such hazing rituals are endemic and widespread in various Masonic sects, including the Shriner and Jesters, the former of which approximately a third of all US Masonic cultists are members of.





If you live next door to a Nazi or a member of the Masonic Mafia, and you are accused of being a Nazi apologist or a Masonic apologist, just because you live next door to them and know them personally, that is an "unjust" legal definition of "guilt by association;" however if you are a Nazi or Masonic apologist yourself, then "guilt by association" applies; we are judged by others on the basis of who our allies are and whom we justify and defend.

.......... (Snipped)

His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer
Ex officio Satanas.
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

edit on 20-4-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text was too diabolical; too much Christian flesh and blood consumed; too many virgins sacrificed.

Rather than endlessly responding to the "scatter gun" strategy of the Masonic gang members here, where the same issues which have laready been responded to are raised again and again on numerous other threads, I am reposting the following post here, for the sake of consolodation of the debate on the issue of Masonic BDSM hazing rituals.

Lux

Originally posted by KSigMason
Posting articles and random pictures doesn't show us that you know anything about Freemasonry.

Well firstly this is simply a statement of arrogance and a statement which is clearly not true. For a person not to know "any-thing" about Masonry, they would have to be totally ignorant about Masonry and have never studied anything at all about the cult.

Further the the articles and pictures were not random; the pictures showed hazing equipment which was used in the Masonic hazing rituals, and I think that the articles would assist a person to have a better understanding of Masonic hazing rituals.

It only shows that you know how to conduct smear campaigns and misconstrue facts.

That is just the kind of simple contradiction which I have come to expect from the Masonic gang members here; an "argument" would offer argument and evidence which would establish "how" I have misconstrued ("misunderstood, misenterpreted") facts about the Masonic hazing rituals.

The various costumes are a part of the ceremony. That's pretty obvious.

Yes and I have shown numerous photos of Masonic fancy dress gear and fetish gear (blindfolds, cable tows, women's dancing costumes for men, etc.) which should assist a greater understanding of Masonry. You don't seem to be very grateful for all the effort I have put in to allow others to have a better understanding of Masonic hazing rituals and pantomime fancy dress costumes.

I have been hazed by any means,

You have been hazed "by any means??" Good grief. Well I suppose it is unsurprising for a US army mercenary who has to go through boot camp. Might I suggest that you check out www.alt.com... which is the world's foremost BDSM contact site, where BDSM masters are always looking for good submissives who are willing to be "hazed by any means."

I have no objection to BDSM submission rituals; I think they encourage the de-christianisation of society and advance sexual revolution and the revolution against religious morality; I merely wish to portray the Masons in a truthful way amidst the cacophony of bizarre conspiracy theories.

and I'm a member of a college fraternity where I went through some 2-months off pledging, but I never was shocked or spanked (someone would have been knocked out for that).

Well if you were "hazed by any means" surely a good spanking and electrocution would be rather tame anyway?

As for the Vaughn article, I'm calling BS on his claims and his "suffering". I think he was just chasing money. If you did research beyond FreemasonryWatch

Well the article I posted was from the "Associated Press;" just because it is hosted on Watchy's site does not establish "guilt by association;" i.e., that Associate Press journalists share Watchy's rather vile Christian religious fanaticsm; I find it quite amusing that the Catholics (such as Watchy) are attacking the Masons; they are both diabolical Christian cults who are competitors in the multi-billion dollar Jesus business as far as I am concerned.

or David Icke's website,

There are over 50,000 members on David Icke's discussion board and it so happens to be one of the numerous discussion boards that I am subscribed to; you will find most of my essays which I have placed on this site, on the David Icke site also. There are numerous regular contributors to that discussion group who are Freemasons (mostly British Freemasons), Communists, Anarchists, Christians, Muslims and who do not agree with David Icke over a variety of issues, but in David's favour, I must say that all opponents seem to be welcome to the debate. I certainly think that Icke's view of the Freemasons, that you are shape shifting reptiles is ridiculous, and I generally always defend the Freemasons in this respect and attempt to portray them as the religious cultists, Capitalist devils and Anglo-American state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaborators that they are. Again you should thank me for this.

you'd see that the jury didn't buy this man's claims:

Well they did not award him any damages for his alleged injuries, and there did not seem anyway to be any medical evidence that he was seriously injured; applying electric shocks to the buttocks does not guarantee medical injuries anyway; however his testimony accords with other testimonials of Masonic hazings which I have presented on the thread On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters. on: www.abovetopsecret.com... however if you wish to drag the discussion over to this thread I am only too happy to repost them here.

Testimony begins in Shriner lawsuit case

Michael G. Vaughn tried to fend off questions from attorney Greg Jenkins about whether his physical and emotional problems existed before he went through the rites in a June 1989 ceremony at the Oleika Shrine Temple.

READ MORE

Jury rejects man's claim the Shriners injured him

After a weeklong trial that shed light on the organization's secret ceremonies, the Fayette County Circuit panel took less than two hours to decide late last week the Shriners owed Michael Vaughn nothing.

READ MORE

Jury rejects suit against Shriners

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - A man's claim that he was permanently during a secret Shrine temple initiation ceremony in 1989 was rejected by a Fayette Circuit Court jury.

READ MORE

Oh thank you for those links; as it gives some more information which was not available in the Associated Press article. I will repost the links on the Shriners and Jesters thread.

I was unaware that...

A: he went through the hazing rituals with 40 other men.



B: that he was strapped to a table while electric shocks applied to his buttocks to simulate a red hot branding iron....



C: that he and other several other men had to hold hands while walking on an electricrified mat .



I do think it is rather dishonest of you to claim that the images are "random," since the images posted clearly relate to the testimonials of Masonic cultists regarding hazing rituals, and they further relate to the above hyperlinks which you have just posted. Further the defence in that trial did not dispute that such hazing rituals had taken place, but merely that he had suffered no harm. In the judge's closing remarks he stated that the Shriners were a "fun organisation" and I fully agree with him that BDSM submission, domination and humilation can be "fun" for some people; though I rather take it very seriously.

I have of course offered to give Masons submission and humiliation sessions in my private dungeon at prices which are considerably cheaper than the Masonic fees, and I can assure you that the Masonic hazing rituals would pale in comaprison to the extreme humiliation I would put them through. Perhaps you could advertise my services to other Masons and I could reward you with extra virgins in the afterlife.

Also, if these rites were so horrific, why didn't more men step up with him and back him up? Maybe some of the men who went through the ceremony with him?

I have never suggested that the Masonic hazing rites were "horrific;" I have merely suggested that they were rather silly and rather tame; if you want to have a good submissive / slave, their training process has to be far more intense than the silly Masonic hazings.

Well, you "philosophers" can bring it on. I will not bow down to your oppression

Oppression? Have I oppressed you in any way? Oh you poor little army boy. I fully support human sexual freedom; I live in a country where I am surrounded by BDSM clubs and gay saunas, and in fact I have been in that industry myself and have friends who still are; if Masons enjoy being collared (with a cable tow), having to obey a "Master," being sexually humiliated, beaten and electrocuted, that is entirely up to them. I merely wish to present certain truths about the Masons that others may have a better understanding of them and to advance general knowledge of the academic "study of religious cults." Really you should thank me; I find you most ungrateful.

Regards.

His Imperial Majesty
Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"

edit on 22-4-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem (The devil made me do it).