Wisconsin shows rest of country the real union thuggery going on in this country

I've seen two arguments coming from the Union+Democrats (they're so firmly in bed with one another I'll just all them uniocrats.)

Uniocrats: But if we don't have unions, we'll have a world where orphan infants must work in coal mines for 2 cents per week.

Me: More than 90% of private sector employees are not "protected" by unions and very few of those are infants who must work deep in coal mines for 2 cents per week. Thanks to the hard working unions of 75-100 years ago, we now have laws in place to protect ALL state workers, not just teachers in local 152. Those laws need improvement and we'd welcome your help in reforming these as soon as you come out from behind your union and compete in the real world like those who pay your salaries.

Uniocrats: We're not overpaid. Some studies (funded no doubt, by the AFLCIO) show that private sector employees actually take home more money and benefits than public employees.

Me: Over 90% of Wisconsin's private sector employees are not represented by unions but you claim that they earn the same or more than union employees. So why do you feel the need to pay union dues?

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE

The reason our economy is in shambles has nothing to do with the tax breaks that were given by Bush. If you understood how business cycles worked and did your own research rather than depending on Rachel Maddow for your information, you would "get it". I get so frustrated with the ignorant out there who lump the small business owners in with the large corporations of this country.

I really wonder how this world even functions anymore.

The measure would increase the contributions of public employees to their own retirement and medical benefits. The plan, put forward by new Gov. Scott Walker, R-Wisc., would have public workers make equal contributions to their retirement funds (teachers currently contribute $1 for every $56.94 from the state) and increase workers’ share of health insurance premiums to 12.6 percent. Teachers in most districts currently pay less than 5 percent of their insurance costs. The national average for workers is 27 percent.

No....there is no huge discrepancy's here.(insert sarcasm)
Do the Math. Luxury Style Living,on the backs of those who are paying for it.

Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE

 

The reason our economy is in shambles has nothing to do with the tax breaks that were given by Bush. If you understood how business cycles worked and did your own research rather than depending on Rachel Maddow for your information, you would "get it". I get so frustrated with the ignorant out there who lump the small business owners in with the large corporations of this country.

I really wonder how this world even functions anymore.

The world isn't functioning anymore, have you looked around lately?

The Bush tax cuts were supposed to create jobs...... Can you show me any evidence that these tax cuts have helped the economy?

I guess only the Fox news watchers get it

Originally posted by joyride0187
Over 90% of Wisconsin's private sector employees are not represented by unions but you claim that they earn the same or more than union employees. So why do you feel the need to pay union dues?

Ouch, ouch, ouch. Well said

Unions long ago outlived their purpose. Now they are just there to try to suck businesses and the taxpayer dry.

I could care less if a private business wants to have a union and pay for ridiculous high wages and pay for ridiculous health benefits. But if their greed and irresponsibility puts them in financial trouble, they should go through bankruptcy or go out of business completely.

No occupation that relies on taxpayers money should be allowed to be unionized. The public should not be allowed to be held hostage by the greed of a few.

I would LOVE for someone in a union to tell me WHY they think they deserve all these high wages, totally paid for benefits, and pensions that they hardly put a dime into. Why? Really? Why?

Just because?

I am a Wisconsin State worker (I'm not a teacher, though). A lot of you don't know what's really going on. This is about the bill breaking the unions up, taking our collective bargaining rights away. This means that we, as state workers, do not have a voice in our workplace. This means we could lose vacation days, personal days, sick leave... and there will not be much we can do about it legally. Our unions, as well as the state workers that reside in them, are not thugs. We are standing up for what we believe in just as Scott Walker is. We have freedom of speech, too, you know... and exercising that RIGHT does not make us thugs. Since when does exercising a right make someone a criminal? Feel free to be biased and label those you disagree with as thugs just because they're exercising their rights (and just because you don't like what we're saying), however that does not make our initiative any less valid than yours. Health Insurance going up? Whatever. Breaking up the unions, and then calling us the thugs because we want to have a say in our workplaces? That's not cool, and I am proud of my blue collar comrades for going out there and standing up.

Go ahead and believe what you want, but this is more about breaking up the unions than health insurance. None of my co-workers have complained about the health insurance concept. It's all about the unions. Coming from the inside, I can tell you this is what it is actually about. No thuggery here. If anything, the non-union state employees (administration) will become the thugs if we do not have a union and a voice for collective bargaining.
Not to mention that if he messes with our unions through this bill, he could very well (and wants to) lay of many thousands of workers... people who have put their life into their jobs.

Peace,

Fangula.

You know what happens when workers aren't allowed to use their collective bargaining rights? You do a job and hope someone else isn't willing to do it for cheaper. When one of the 10% of Americans who are unemployed steps in to do just that, you better hope that your machine operation skills or work ethic are far enough superior to every other applicant to justify your higher pay. Don't like that wages are beginning to rapidly deteriorate? Well, I hope you weren't planning on getting together with your peers to demand fair and stable wages because that is illegal. Feel free to use your individual bargaining rights and stand by while the wages dip lower and lower as unemployed workers volunteer to accept lower pay to survive.

Eventually the wages have declined so much that no one can longer sustain themselves working for a rock bottom yet still decreasing wage. Well, I hope you like jail because uniting with your peers and demanding a livable wage is against the law, so just put your head down and keep working the system and hope you somehow suddenly gain stupendous skills or talents that grant you the individual bargaining power to rise above your endlessly toiling peers.

Originally posted by Fangula
This means that we, as state workers, do not have a voice in our workplace. This means we could lose vacation days, personal days, sick leave... and there will not be much we can do about it legally.

Yes, there is something you can do legally.

Quit.

Here's the rub. Who exactly are you union people trying to negotiate with on our (meaning the taxpayer's) behalf??

The Governor doesn't pay all OUR taxes. As far as I'm concerned, you unions are in negotiations right now, and I gotta tell you, it's not looking too good for you. The WHOLE country is watching and we are not amused.

Originally posted by Common Scarecrow
Unions long ago outlived their purpose. Now they are just there to try to suck businesses and the taxpayer dry.

I could care less if a private business wants to have a union and pay for ridiculous high wages and pay for ridiculous health benefits. But if their greed and irresponsibility puts them in financial trouble, they should go through bankruptcy or go out of business completely.

No occupation that relies on taxpayers money should be allowed to be unionized. The public should not be allowed to be held hostage by the greed of a few.

I would LOVE for someone in a union to tell me WHY they think they deserve all these high wages, totally paid for benefits, and pensions that they hardly put a dime into. Why? Really? Why?

Just because?

We do not get paid ridiculously high wages. The fact that you think we're incredibly overpaid just proves that you've never worked for the State of Wisconsin. I can't speak for other states, but we're not overpaid. The working class men and women make a lot less than they probably should, in fact. We work very hard to serve the citizens of our state. We are public servants. There is no greed involved here. The unions are there to protect us from management bullying us! Scott Walker wants to take that away, and then lay off many thousands of public workers. Also, our benefits are not totally paid for. Sure, we get a large percentage of health care costs paid for, but we do pay for some of it.

I really have no problem with the health insurance debate on this topic. What I do have a problem with is the possibility of not having a voice in my workplace. I am sure you could sympathize with that. Management who are full of bullies are not fun to deal with when your work rights are subject to attack. Perhaps you could also sympathize with that, unless you think bullies in the workplace are a good thing. Also, not everyone has a pension that they hardly put a dime into. In fact, I don't. I have deferred compensation, which is ME putting MY OWN money away for retirement. The only difference is that it is not taxed. Oh, gee... how horrible of me.

Also, health care costs a LOT of money. Who are you to judge anyone for wanting to be able to afford to take care of their family?

Peace,

Fangula

Gotta love the GOP; they only look out for their own. Funny how they run on lower spending and this idiot spends money and then makes workers pay the price.

This clown should be Recall election.

I bet most of these demonstrators voted for him and are probably GOP voters themselves. (see interviews) No pity for these demonstrators you voted for him.

You reap what you sow.

Originally posted by beansanmash

Well, I hope you like jail because uniting with your peers and demanding a livable wage is against the law, so just put your head down and keep working the system and hope you somehow suddenly gain stupendous skills or talents that grant you the individual bargaining power to rise above your endlessly toiling peers.

1) "Demanding a livable wage is against the law" Are you saying that it's illegal to look for another job?

2) "Working the system" The unions are "working the system" not the taxpaying public. You're asking US for money.

3) "Hope you somehow suddenly gain stupendous skills or talents" It's called busting your ass at at more than one job while going to online or night school. Hell, you can even learn stuff off the internet for free. Hope?!? No thank you, we'd rather have SKILLS.

4) "Stupendous skills or talents that grant you the individual bargaining power to rise above your endlessly toiling peers" Ex. Actly.

Originally posted by Califemme
Yes, there is something you can do legally.

Quit.

Good idea. Everyone should just quit their careers that they've invested in for half their life.

Here's the rub. Who exactly are you union people trying to negotiate with on our (meaning the taxpayer's) behalf??

We work every single day to keep the state running on your behalf. We keep the roads clean, we take care of the sick, we do a whole lot to keep everything running. Who's going to plow the roads effectively for you to go to work to support your family, when we quit like you say we should? Who's going to take care of sick people in a state hospital, or mental institution? Apply that question to just about anything that is done by the State. And then what will you be paying your taxes for? It would be absolutely nothing then. You're just emotional, and I believe it would be best for you to think this through. Walker hasn't.

The Governor doesn't pay all OUR taxes. As far as I'm concerned, you unions are in negotiations right now, and I gotta tell you, it's not looking too good for you. The WHOLE country is watching and we are not amused.

Good for you. We are not amused either, so I guess we've found something in common.

Peace,

Fangula.

Originally posted by Califemme

Originally posted by beansanmash

Well, I hope you like jail because uniting with your peers and demanding a livable wage is against the law, so just put your head down and keep working the system and hope you somehow suddenly gain stupendous skills or talents that grant you the individual bargaining power to rise above your endlessly toiling peers.

1) "Demanding a livable wage is against the law" Are you saying that it's illegal to look for another job?

2) "Working the system" The unions are "working the system" not the taxpaying public. You're asking US for money.

3) "Hope you somehow suddenly gain stupendous skills or talents" It's called busting your ass at at more than one job while going to online or night school. Hell, you can even learn stuff off the internet for free. Hope?!? No thank you, we'd rather have SKILLS.

4) "Stupendous skills or talents that grant you the individual bargaining power to rise above your endlessly toiling peers" Ex. Actly.

I believe he was being sarcastic. You're really worked up about this, huh? Calm down... relax. All we want is the ability to have a voice in our workplace without being fired simply for the action of exercising our freedom of speech, and many of the other inalienable rights that you, as well, have.

As someone else said, you DO have a say in your workplace, quit. Work somewhere else. This isn't slavery.

You are not a public servant. You have a job, just like everyone else. Don't get such a swelled head over such a little thing. If you are a servant, then we are ALL servants to someone. The only difference being that the people who fund your salary have no say in the matter. And when they DO have a say and vote someone responsible into office, you union people don't want to respect OUR opinion as represented by the elected officials.

I used to be very active in our local VOLUNTEER fire company, something like 8 years active crew. Was never paid a dime. Funny, when I went into a burning building with only a 1 1/2" hose line to protect me, I don't remember the fire asking me if I was being paid or not, like it would take it easy on me if I wasn't.

I know healthcare costs a lot of money. I certainly don't get it for free. I get $150 a week taken out of my pay to go towards the cost. I feel bad for people who make less than me, and believe me, I am not lighting up the bank with my depostis.

The time has come for unions to go away. They no longer serve their original purpose by a long shot.

Originally posted by Fangula


We do not get paid ridiculously high wages.....

No its just the Luxury benefits that Unions have co-oped into their take it,or we strike attitude. Its just not WI ! People are sick of it,dont you get it?

Amid a crippling fiscal crisis, managers throughout California’s government have routinely allowed their employees to amass unused vacation time, enabling hundreds of workers to end their public-service careers with payouts topping $100,000, a California Watch investigation has found.

One worker combined vacation and compensatory time to walk away with more than $800,000, records show.

In the past four years, nearly 500 government workers earned six-figure paychecks mostly for unused vacation. In total, the state spent $486 million between 2006 and mid-2009 to pay more than 52,000 employees for time-off benefits – which includes a small percentage of unused comp time and holidays that weren’t taken.

Many of those cash payments appeared to violate rules designed to limit how much vacation time state workers can accumulate during their careers. Most employees are allowed to bank 80 days worth of unused vacation, but records show that supervisors routinely allow them to exceed that amount.

And the problem is growing, state payroll officials said. Personnel documents show that as of December 2008, more than 14,000 active state employees had already exceeded their vacation caps.


Unbelievable

You tell me if its fair to put this burden on the taxpayers.

Originally posted by sonnny1
The measure would increase the contributions of public employees to their own retirement and medical benefits. The plan, put forward by new Gov. Scott Walker, R-Wisc., would have public workers make equal contributions to their retirement funds (teachers currently contribute $1 for every $56.94 from the state) and increase workers’ share of health insurance premiums to 12.6 percent. Teachers in most districts currently pay less than 5 percent of their insurance costs. The national average for workers is 27 percent.

No....there is no huge discrepancy's here.(insert sarcasm)
Do the Math. Luxury Style Living,on the backs of those who are paying for it.

Luxury style living? I've never even seen a teacher drive a BMW, or some super expensive car. I've never seen a teacher with a mansion. In fact, any teachers I've known are lower middle class. A lot of them make a very poor salary for how much time, effort, and money that they spent to go to college to get their degree in education. These are people who are teaching our children, churning them out to be adults... and you do nothing but disrespect them, and blame them. Shame on you. You would be out there, too, if you were a public servant, standing up for your rights. You're probably just jealous, anyway. Even though a lot of state workers don't make as much money as everyone tries to say.

Originally posted by Fangula

Originally posted by sonnny1
The measure would increase the contributions of public employees to their own retirement and medical benefits. The plan, put forward by new Gov. Scott Walker, R-Wisc., would have public workers make equal contributions to their retirement funds (teachers currently contribute $1 for every $56.94 from the state) and increase workers’ share of health insurance premiums to 12.6 percent. Teachers in most districts currently pay less than 5 percent of their insurance costs. The national average for workers is 27 percent.

No....there is no huge discrepancy's here.(insert sarcasm)
Do the Math. Luxury Style Living,on the backs of those who are paying for it.

Luxury style living? I've never even seen a teacher drive a BMW, or some super expensive car. I've never seen a teacher with a mansion. In fact, any teachers I've known are lower middle class. A lot of them make a very poor salary for how much time, effort, and money that they spent to go to college to get their degree in education. These are people who are teaching our children, churning them out to be adults... and you do nothing but disrespect them, and blame them. Shame on you. You would be out there, too, if you were a public servant, standing up for your rights. You're probably just jealous, anyway. Even though a lot of state workers don't make as much money as everyone tries to say.

No shame here. Im calling it for what it is.Entitlement. Just as bad as Congress and Obama forcing a health care bill down our throats,but want the Cadillac Premium Health care for themselves. Looks like ALL those who work under the Government umbrella are just as bad. Im not Jealous,Im sick of it. "We the People" are sick of it. You did see that the National average is 27% for insurance costs,right? Teachers in WI pay less then 5%. You see a difference? I do. And about the kids? Those teachers can care less,as long as they have vacation and sick days to protest,while children go un educated. And lets not talk about the standards of children and education today......Please.

reply to post by Fangula


My sister-in-law teaches 5th grade and gets fully paid for benefits, a fully paid for pension, and $95,000 a year for her part-time job as a teacher. Part-time because she gets every summer off and every holiday on the face of the earth. All that, for teaching 5th grade. Not teaching at college, 5th grade.

I am not jealous. I could care less. What bothers me is the fact that my taxes keep going up and up to pay for that ridiculous situation.

New York City firefighters can retire after 20 years at around 40 years old and get some other job if they want to. The yearly total of their fully paid for excellant health benefits and their pension is about $90,000 a year ....... tax free.

Why? NO ONE deserves a situation like that AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE.