Why i enjoy working and why you dont

reply to post by nightbringr


I'm curious to ask. You say that you're making a decent living from your earnings and savings. I would like to know what your disposition would be, if all your money and savings dried up regardless of what spending discipline you adopt. Because. THAT is what millions of good, responsible people are experiencing. Sure, things are great when they are great. There are GOOD people living in destitution as the result of being betrayed and exploited by money changers. If I had the power to control the purchasing power of your 'fruits of labor'. Like these banksters do, I could control you like a puppet. Like a slave. I could make you work two jobs to make ends meet. I could control where you live and what you are able to buy. Without those controlled bills in your wallet, you're just a homeless bum on the streets complaining.

Originally posted by Visitor2012
reply to post by nightbringr

 

I'm curious to ask. You say that you're making a decent living from your earnings and savings. I would like to know what your disposition would be, if all your money and savings dried up regardless of what spending discipline you adopt. Because. THAT is what millions of good, responsible people are experiencing. Sure, things are great when they are great. There are GOOD people living in destitution as the result of being betrayed and exploited by money changers. If I had the power to control the purchasing power of your 'fruits of labor'. Like these banksters do, I could control you like a puppet. Like a slave. I could make you work two jobs to make ends meet. I could control where you live and what you are able to buy. Without those controlled bills in your wallet, you're just a homeless bum on the streets complaining.

Wrong. Because im not going to let you put me in debt.

As i said in my OP, i owe nothing with the exception of my mortgage which i view as a necissary evil. Who has $69,500 to spend on a house at any one time?

So, unless the bank is pulling some kind of crazy scheme where they are lieing about my mortgage payments, i should be safe.

Who do you propose controls me and makes me work 2 jobs to make ends meet? If im not irresponsible with my money i wont have bankers or financiers who are obviously out for their own good take my money. Make sense? I buy even my cars up front.

Ive had emergencies where ive needed to replace a washer or dryer or even my furnace, but again i have prepared and set money aside for these things.

Im not a rich man. You too can do it. Its called not spending beyond your means.

reply to post by nightbringr


its very simple, actually.

you have heard of the phrase, "innocent until proven guilty"?

apply that concept now to personal economics. the world should be based on "successful until proven failure."

but just the opposite is true: "failure until proven successful". as i pointed out before, this is how the initial parameters of the system are set up. you must MAKE yourself successful. this means that the system considers your natural state to be failure.

do you not see the soul-crushing power of being a failure by birth? is it any surprise that people give up?

Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by nightbringr

 

its very simple, actually.

you have heard of the phrase, "innocent until proven guilty"?

apply that concept now to personal economics. the world should be based on "successful until proven failure."

but just the opposite is true: "failure until proven successful". as i pointed out before, this is how the initial parameters of the system are set up. you must MAKE yourself successful. this means that the system considers your natural state to be failure.

do you not see the soul-crushing power of being a failure by birth? is it any surprise that people give up?

Wow, life is pretty bleak for you.

What you are doing is absolving yourself from any wrongdoing or failure in this life. If you fail at something, you can always say "Well, i was set up to fail from birth!". And i hope you dont mean by "giving up", you have decided not to work and live off welfare.

Please just tell me how you would like the government or the monetary system to set thing up to have you always "win" from birth? Do they give you a million dollars at birth? If so where does that come from? Or free education? Even through the university level? Please, throw me a line here to help me understand what it is you want.

I actually think its an even playing field from birth, neither a winner or loser at that point, the world is your oyster.

Short story here, 20 years ago the wife and myself were working part time both of us.
We had been renting for about 8 years, we both got hired on full time at the same time but at different jobs.
So we saved for about 3 years for the down payment on a home and did just fine.
Found our dream home...(small) and plunked down 15 k on it and signed up for 110 k in mortgage debt.
Worked our asses off and paid extra every year till I got sick.
I lost my job but not my cheapness :-)
I used to bitch how bad my job was and it paid very well indeed.
I wish to hell I could have my job back that I bitched so much about.
We still manage just fine here and we have paid the house off completely.
The one thing we have not done, is dine out at all and I mean at all.....in the past 16 years or so.
We will get take-out a few times but that is eaten at home with own drinks and we usually get a second meal out of the take out.
We have a credit card and use it but we pay it off every month.....the reason we use it is for gas and we get a 5% discount on all gas bought.
Don't bitch about your job unless you really really hate it and even then think about not having it for a month and then it may seem like a pretty good job.

You don't know what you got till its gone.
Regards, Iwinder

I think a key issue to look at in this situation is this:

Are you a dependent person with no responsibilities towards others?

OR

Are you anchored by the responsibilities of having a family?

Personally, I have nobody that relies on me for survival. Therefore with only myself to worry about, I suppose it is much easier to step outside of the system.

Some might argue "well if you had a family you would understand" and indeed I would. Which I why I choose not to have a family nor do I attempt to seek one out. In the current state of the world I have to question anybody who thinks that the way the world is today is an adequate living environment for any child. I'm not talking because of war, chaos, terrorism, and violence - I'm talking of brainwashing, implanted stereotyping, forced separatism, and the acceptable DEFEATIST attitude that it shoves into everyone's heads.

I do want to have a family and raise kids of my own, but I look at it this way. I would rather work now and sacrifice against my own well being than risk the well being of a future generation, be it an upbringing in this current society, or a world where they are not given the resources they need to survive sufficiently.



Back to the work ordeal. Some like to agree with my statements and say "I don't value money" "It isn't about the money to me" yet you will still quote how much you make per year or how much "more" someone else might make yet complain about it. That to me, shows that you DO indeed still care about money.

Forget 30,000 a year, try to live your life for a year with $0 income. NADA. ZILCH. Or even $5000 or less. Only when you do that, and you abandon the reasoning that money is the only thing enabling your survival, will you truly "not care about money".

As I said, money to me is no number. It is a necessity that my customers give to me in exchange for a good. I charge so little in my business that I can undercut absolutely everyone. If I wanted to I could raise my prices drastically and increase my standard of living... but would I really? By secluding myself from money I seclude myself from the travesties that pollute our airways in the form of technology and commercialism taking over our mind. If someone else didn't pay for me to have a cell phone, you could bet your arse that I would be rid of it in an instant. I don't want it and I don't need it - but it goes to show how much other people believe that I do.

When it comes to entering the workforce again, I can honestly say that without a shadow of a doubt, I would become homeless before I entered the modern corporate workforce once again. My work is helping people, helping myself, and ensuring my survival. That is all the work that I need. I don't like work, but I understand that it is necessary, at least in some form, for you to even survive on this planet.

The work that is NOT necessary are the distribution centers, the Walmarts, the McDonalds, the useless government agencies, the salesmen, and the entertainers.

The work that IS necessary are the farmers, the traders, the medical staffs, the good Samaritans, the mom and pop corner and grocery stores, and the service providers.

The sooner we realize that the system can survive without the corrupt first category, the sooner the world can return to peace, tranquility, responsibility, and humanity.

reply to post by gwydionblack


The work that is NOT necessary are the distribution centers, the Walmarts, the McDonalds, the useless government agencies, the salesmen, and the entertainers.

The work that IS necessary are the farmers, the traders, the medical staffs, the good Samaritans, the mom and pop corner and grocery stores, and the service providers.

The sooner we realize that the system can survive without the corrupt first category, the sooner the world can return to peace, tranquility, responsibility, and humanity.

Well said Sir/Maam
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Visitor2012
reply to post by nightbringr

 

I'm curious to ask. You say that you're making a decent living from your earnings and savings. I would like to know what your disposition would be, if all your money and savings dried up regardless of what spending discipline you adopt. Because. THAT is what millions of good, responsible people are experiencing. Sure, things are great when they are great. There are GOOD people living in destitution as the result of being betrayed and exploited by money changers. If I had the power to control the purchasing power of your 'fruits of labor'. Like these banksters do, I could control you like a puppet. Like a slave. I could make you work two jobs to make ends meet. I could control where you live and what you are able to buy. Without those controlled bills in your wallet, you're just a homeless bum on the streets complaining.

Wrong. Because im not going to let you put me in debt.

As i said in my OP, i owe nothing with the exception of my mortgage which i view as a necissary evil. Who has $69,500 to spend on a house at any one time?

So, unless the bank is pulling some kind of crazy scheme where they are lieing about my mortgage payments, i should be safe.

Who do you propose controls me and makes me work 2 jobs to make ends meet? If im not irresponsible with my money i wont have bankers or financiers who are obviously out for their own good take my money. Make sense? I buy even my cars up front.

Ive had emergencies where ive needed to replace a washer or dryer or even my furnace, but again i have prepared and set money aside for these things.

Im not a rich man. You too can do it. Its called not spending beyond your means.

edit on 15-2-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Not spending beyond your means? For an increasing number of people worldwide, buying a meal to eat is spending beyond their means. Healthy groceries for a family of five, can run upwards of $150.00 a week where I live. And that's just basic foods. That's $600 a month. For most people, that's two weeks pay. Two weeks labor for one weeks food. Does that sound right to you?

reply to post by Visitor2012


Absolutley not. I dont wish misery on anyone, and im stating my case based on circumstances i am in. Food here is not prohibitively expensive, and even people on welfare can afford basic food staples. No one should starve.

People in other parts of the world do have very valid concerns regarding the prices of basic foodstuffs.

I certainly pay no where near 2 weeks of pay for one week of food. Where are you from?

Originally posted by Iwinder
Short story here, 20 years ago the wife and myself were working part time both of us.
We had been renting for about 8 years, we both got hired on full time at the same time but at different jobs.
So we saved for about 3 years for the down payment on a home and did just fine.
Found our dream home...(small) and plunked down 15 k on it and signed up for 110 k in mortgage debt.
Worked our asses off and paid extra every year till I got sick.
I lost my job but not my cheapness :-)
I used to bitch how bad my job was and it paid very well indeed.
I wish to hell I could have my job back that I bitched so much about.
We still manage just fine here and we have paid the house off completely.
The one thing we have not done, is dine out at all and I mean at all.....in the past 16 years or so.
We will get take-out a few times but that is eaten at home with own drinks and we usually get a second meal out of the take out.
We have a credit card and use it but we pay it off every month.....the reason we use it is for gas and we get a 5% discount on all gas bought.
Don't bitch about your job unless you really really hate it and even then think about not having it for a month and then it may seem like a pretty good job.

You don't know what you got till its gone.
Regards, Iwinder

For the Labor Caste, this is always a tale of limitation, scarcity, compromise and acceptance. We all can share similar stories of the trials and tribulation related to being a Worker Bee. Constantly downgrading our quality of living to the level of our means. Meanwhile the means keeps shrinking, until one day, we find ourselves dipping into next month's rent to buy dinner for the night. Our days of being exploited and robbed, are coming to an end, so long as we remember what true freedom is.

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

Absolutley not. I dont wish misery on anyone, and im stating my case based on circumstances i am in. Food here is not prohibitively expensive, and even people on welfare can afford basic food staples. No one should starve.

People in other parts of the world do have very valid concerns regarding the prices of basic foodstuffs.

I certainly pay no where near 2 weeks of pay for one week of food. Where are you from?

edit on 15-2-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

I won't give my location. (psychic honing) but I was being very conservative with that number.
There are millions of people being exploited and robbed blind while participating in this wonderful job scam you seem to be in harmony with. I respectfully disagree with your point of view.

Rich people, make all the stuff we have!

No the working class make all the stuff we have, rich people "manage" them and pay to have things made for them.

Originally posted by byteshertz

Rich people, make all the stuff we have!

No the working class make all the stuff we have, rich people "manage" them and pay to have things made for them.

edit on 16-2-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

So this is too suggest that some nice thing was made
and that zero rich people were involved.
Ever?

While the word so very carefully quoted "manage" can be, and is deserving of criticism,
that in no way validates the way we treat rich people.

I mean seriously now,
they are in hiding in their own countries.

When did it become unamerican to be rich in america?


David Grouchy

reply to post by nightbringr



Enjoy it while you can, you'll get over it one day and discover the government really is the main problem stealing the fruits of your labor, the bank never loaned you any money to buy the house but tricked you into thinking they did, and that self sustainable living is possible and being done by a number of people and communities and does not require going back to a 19th century standard of living to accomplish.

Someone has to set the bar for a new model of a modern self sustainable free society and it sure won't be those happy and content with the status quo, otherwise we would still be living in caves.

Originally posted by nightbringr
After perusing and contributing to another current thread of this nature i feel compelled to write this.

Why is work so bad? I have a job and while it is not my "ideal" job, I work and make my money and enjoy the fruits of my labour. Im Canadian and make roughly $36,000 a year.

Do you own your own home? If so was this making your current income. If not what happens as the years go on and the rent keep's going up. I am not disagreeing with your philosophy here - I am glad you are content with what you have, what my issue with working in today's society stem's from is the fact many people do not enjoy their jobs, some hate their jobs - they spend most of their life in these jobs working for big corporate giants that have more wealth than whole towns and to make CEO's mega rich. In exchange we get the insecurity of the current market combined witha low pay cheque - now it is good to see you are happy now - but do you see a bright future? How would you feel if your pay cheque and education was the same but you were sick, single with kids, or trying to upskill. Different people have different circumstances and for the amount of work people put in not many get the security they deserve back.

Not much by most standards, but i have no secondary education, so i make the best of it. That being said, by carefully watching my expenditures, not putting myself into debt (with the exception of my home mortgage, unfortunately i had no choice there), not spending friviolously on things i dont need, and looking for deals wherever and whenever possible, ive managed to aquire what i think is a good life.

I have a modest home, small by most standards yet comfortable and cheap on heating bills. I have two cars, a winter and a summer car, and still manage to put enough in the bank for a nice little vacation each year. I spend less on my mortgage and electricity bills than most people in small apartments would. I have a wife and a beautiful daughter i love very much.

I missed your answer earlier on having a mortgage so let me rephrase my previous question - how would you feel if suddenly your rates wen through the roof because of a market crash - obviously you have stated you do not spend friviolously to meet your mortgage - but all it takes is things to go bad and you could lose everything you worked for.

Now im going to tell you a little story. Before i met my wife i had a close friend move in with me to help "shoulder" the burden of bills and mortgage. He paid half of everything which was by all means a bargain. His apartment he rented
before cost him well over twice what he paid living with me.
Life isnt easy. No one has ever told us that things would be a cakewalk.

We have the technology to make life a lot more easy, instead we allow 1% of the people 40% of the wealth. Money makes money so their overall wealth of that 1% keeps increasing.

I have grown so sick and tired of everyone blaming everyone else, especially the government for what they have in their own power to do. Dont like your job? Educate yourself and get a better one. Cant afford to educate yourself? Get a second job and save. Pissed off the banks forclosed on your mortgage? Dont take mortgages you cant possibly afford from a bank that obviously has its own best interests at heart. The minute the economy goes south or you lose your job, you will lose your house. Is this unfair? Of course not. YOU signed a contract saying you will make your payments. You would not sell someone a car then shrug and say "Hey! Thats life!" when they stop paying you.

People blame the government because it is their job and responsibility to complain where things are not fair - imagine the world we would live in if we didnt. You are demonstrating ignorance in these paragraphs, you assume everyone's circumstances are straight foward and unchanging. Many people try to work a second job - but may split with their partner and be single or may get sick or may have a pscological break down because they have been busting their ass for years to get somewhere. You are saying you don't take out debt besides a mortgage but people should upskill by getting further education - for most people this requires a loan as their current job is already taking up most of their day and not paying them enough to get ahead. Is it unfair? ofcorse - should people complain -ofcorse, people should not have to work 2 jobs/12-14 hour days to make ends meet. Also you must consider the world is not priced to match your area, people live in expensive area's - why? choice? no often because that is where the jobs are.

These may not be easy things to do, but people need to start taking responsibility for themselves. Its so easy for people to point their fingers at the government, TPTB, Israel, or whoever your favorite boogyman of the moment may be. The government needs work and yes, there is corruption going on, but is this the main root cause of you working a job at McDonalds? Obviously not.

People in general actually love to work - they love the feeling of accomplishment when they are providing for themselves/family but they get worn down when they try and try and keeped getting kicked down - everyone has a breaking point and everyone gives up eventually - those who say they never gave up and made it obviously got a break at some stage. We have become machines that are undervalued and tossed aside the second we break down, we are not given enough while working to cover us when we break and people break at different points, when they can not work they become depressed and soon a vicious cycle kicks in. I accept that you do not have the joys of being a high wage earner - but you need to realise some people have a totally different set of circumstances.

We have evenings, weekend, and a minimum of 2 weeks off every year to do what we want, and yet it is still not enough. Back in the middle ages, people could expect to work all through their waking day, with the hope that one day their lord might declare a holiday.

So we should just be satisfied with what we have because people had it worse in the past - does that make it right?
I keep repeating 1 fact in these threads that can not be argued with - it seem's to get ignored or not processed...
1 percent of the people own 40 percent of the wealth - there is nothing fair or right about this, and it is our job as humans with equal rights deserve to live. Their are people dying all over this world of starvation, others living under bridges in cities - you can blame substance abuse and things like that all you want but most of them actually turn to that stuff once they give up hope. It is crazy to see people thinking all these people choose their destiny that they chose this lifestyle through their actions - I guarantee you that if you put these guys in a field doing some of the hardest physical labour known to man and offered them $35k + superannuation for 8 hours work they would do it gladly.

Do i wish i made more money? Yes. Do i wish i had a better car, more vacation time, more everything? Yes. But i make the best of what i have and I am truely happy in this life. I pity those that are not.

Also want to point out that just because people complain about work does not mean they can not find happiness outside of work. People have not only the right to complain - they have the duty to complain and right now is the time to be complaining because
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
The fact's do not lie:
People are not being looked after - so a lot of them are not happy.

While you may be happy - why should they be content with their work situation when things are this tough (they stats prove it)
They work hard too - but they are not seeing the security, respect, progression, sustainability they deserve in exchange for their work... but keep telling them to stop complaining, just because you are content.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Not what I was saying - I was generalising.

When did it become unamerican to be rich in america?

It's not unamerican to be rich, but it's inhuman to be own a fararri, a holiday home, millions of dollars while their are people dying who do not get a choice.

Definition: Humane: lacking and reflecting lack of pity or compassion
I think that is as accurate as it get's.

Capitalism encourages deciept, exploitation, greed and lack of empathy to those who lose... and eventually 99% have to lose.

As stated in my previous post in the other thread...
Monopoly is a great game but if the game is not reset every once and while one person end's up with everything and nobody else stand's a chance... we are not there yet but that's where we are heading

- especially when the big corporates are bailed out when they lose - by the people who are struggling.

What the purpose of life is, I have yet to figure out, however I have come to the conclusion that material things along with other things which modern society values are meaningless. The myth that "things" and money will fill some kind of void is perpetuated by the media through all mediums including television, Internet, and spoken word. We are bombarded with it constantly.

Work in this society most often consists of an individual becoming a cog in a machine; labour which someone else benefits from, rather that the individual who who actually put forth the effort - and there is no truly meaningful goal which we work towards. The one goal we are expected to embrace is to acquire money and things - Things which are not important to our survival or experience as humans.

While I am happy for the OP for enjoying his life as it is, it must be understood that not all of us can bring ourselves to accept this way of life. I do not want money, it is nothing to me and yet without rejecting it completely I remain a slave to it.

0 credit cards
0 bank accounts
0 cars
Have my own house that built myself .
Raise my own food in garden and fish.
At times when needed provide service as a physician to the locals without charging them. Let them pay what they can if they want or take trade if they want..
Could care less about the greed and materialism that runs rampant in the west. I owe nobody and ask nothing of anybody fully self sufficient out here dont need or want the stress, aggravation and stupidity of western "civilisation".

reply to post by Expat888

sir/madam
you are an inspiration to those that wish to achieve similar goals. i myself are not quite there yet but if and when a big kick up the ass comes, it will be a matter of collecting the final available pieces.
regards f

reply to post by nightbringr


When i was widowed at 32 years of age with 3 small children aged 7 and under, I gave up my job to care for my family.

When my youngest left school and went to college I got myself a job delivering pizzas. It wasn't an ideal job, but having minimal qualifications prevented me from gaining a better employment.

Three years ago, I got a mortgage and bought my home with my long term partner, 2 of my kids were still at home and finances were not a problem. No credit cards, no store cards, I had a loan to buy a car so I could go to work and do my job. Everyone in my household was working and contributed.

Two years ago, everything changed.

My partner and I separated, my kids were grown up and had moved out and into their own homes.

I struggled alone for two years to pay my financial commitments and barely had enough money left over to sustain myself.

Last month my car broke down, and because I couldn't afford the repairs needed my boss 'let me go', this after 7 years working for the place.

Since then I have applied for job after job after job. No luck, not even a reply from any prospective employers I applied to with the exception of one, who informed me I was unsuccessful.

I am now 52 years old, no job, average education, cannot pay my mortgage and my home will soon be repossessed. I live on £330 a month annuity pension - not welfare. It is winter here in the UK and it costs £35-£40 per week for gas to heat my home, electricity is £20 per week. I now find myself going without heating, without proper food, I haven't had a holiday in years, I do not drink, I do not eat out. Even when I had my job I didn't do these things. Now that I have no job, I just barely exist.

A complete change of personal circumstances has created the situation I now find myself in, and no-one is to blame.

So you see, not everyone is bone idle and won't work any job. Situations and circumstances can change. It's not always a case of a person complaining and not doing anything about it.

Don't be judgemental, or complacent in thinking something like this cannot or won't happen to you, it CAN and it MIGHT.