Nibiru?? New planet to be discovered. Four times the size of Jupiter!

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Ok, first of all, nothing entering a black hole "pops out again" to our knowledge, so you are SPECULATING.

Ummmm......

So what are these then?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7a73b986157.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c9c0bd9a072c.jpg[/atsimg]

.....and before you say the bursts are 'only theoretical' - so are black holes.

Magnetic fields like the one around earth also don't speed anything up.

I think the person was referring to gravitational influence - something which DOES speed things up - hence why we use gravitational slingshotting to accelerate deep space probes.

Originally posted by MrXYZ


Ok, first of all, nothing entering a black hole "pops out again" to our knowledge, so you are SPECULATING. Magnetic fields like the one around earth also don't speed anything up.

All I'm saying that rationally, there is ZERO evidence that thing exists. Some people though choose to believe in it anyway, kinda like religious followers. But just like religious followers, their belief isn't based on logic or rationality, it's based on blind belief

MR XYZ i completely agree with you

Lol people think its Nibiru so funny you guys need to get real. This possible planet is 512 FREAKIN AU away thats 512 x farther then earths orbit around the sun the orbital period is probably over 10,000 years. This PLANET WILL NEVER come close to our solar system unless something big knocks its orbit off toward our solarsystem which is highly unlikely like 1 in a bazillion infinite chance. THE REASON our orbits of planets in the inner out solarsystem are so STABLE is because there are no ROGUE planets coming into our solarsystem as u think Nibiru would Because the orbits are almost perfectly elliptical u nut cases!!!!!!.

I AGREE WITH THE POSTER ABOVE. DENY IGNORANCE Look at evidence stop believing ur blind religion. Oh wait... we wouldn't have anything to argue about then guess what keep believing in your stuff.... lol its fun arguing with the nibiru people when they can't bring forward any evidence

Originally posted by ANClENT
So scientists finally admit planet x is real, about freaking time

edit on 14-2-2011 by ANClENT because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-2-2011 by ANClENT because: (no reason given)

yeah..only we cant call it planet X can we. now pluto isnt a planet any more we'd have to call it planet IX.

also. if its still in the far reaches of our solar system will it really be here by december 2012? me thinks not.

and if it isnt and its nothing to do with doomsday prophecies...then its just another planet.

reply to post by Kryties


Your post shows no evidence. In the article u posted the pictures of explains whats causing the jets right here. I quoted it from the site


"These data support the suggestion that twisted magnetic field lines are creating the jet plumes. Material in the center of the galaxy, such as nearby stars and gas, gets pulled in by the black hole's overwhelming gravity and forms a disk orbiting around the core (the material's inertia keeps it spiraling in a disk rather than falling straight into the black hole). The distorted magnetic field lines seem to pull charged particles off the disk and cause them to gush outward at nearly the speed of light.

We knew that material was falling in to these regions, and we knew that there were outbursts coming out," said University of Michigan astronomer Hugh Aller, who worked on the new study. "What's really been a mystery was that we could see there were these really high-energy particles, but we didn't know how they were created, how they were accelerated. It turns out that the model matches the data. We can actually see the particles gaining velocity as they are accelerated along this magnetic field."


THAT MATTER GETTING SPEWED OUT NEVER ENTERED THE BLACK HOLE IT WAS JUST THE ACCRETION DISK AROUND IT and the MAGNETIC field of the BLACK HOLE throws the material away at almost the SPEED OF LIGHT away from the black HOLE. this stuff getting thrown away NEVER ENTERED THE BLACK HOLE REPEAT loolsssss

OH BTW HERES THE LINK to the article

www.space.com...

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by CLPrime
That last one is actually interesting, because, in fact, the Voyager probes are experiencing an anomalous acceleration back toward the sun, not out toward any hidden planets.

Yeah, I thought something like that was happening but a google search didn't bring anything up. Not sure if it could be explained by proximity to Tyche/Nemesis though. If a large gravitational mass were to one side of the Voyager probes, could that explain observations?

For it to affect the Pioneer probes (not Voyager, it turns out, but same idea), it would have to be relatively close, and therefore visible to us. It is interesting to note though that, around the time the probes began slowing down, communication with them was lost.

Also, here's the Planetary Society's page on the anomaly: Pioneer Anomaly

edit on 14-2-2011 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

It says right on the site its very possible the pioneer effect could be caused by a flaw in the law of physics. The Theory/Law may need to be revised which i strongly support. I'm positive we don't know every nuance of physics yet and this is a HUGE mystery that hopefully gets solved

Originally posted by skeptic_al
reply to post by Wildeagle

 

Astronmers are finding new Planets all the Time.
Nibiru has never been proclaimed to exist by Scientists or Astromers, only Fiction Book writers claim it exists. BIG DIFFERENCE, Astronomers do it for Science, Book writers do it for Profit.

If only the Nibiru zombies could understand the true meaning of your statement then noone would follow the nibiru hogwash. DENY IGNORANCE

Originally posted by Darkrunner
I find it hard to believe that no one has spotted this as of yet. I mean, Jupiter is freaking MASSIVE, and this thing is supposedly up to 4x bigger?

I can understand planets around neighboring suns being hard to spot, but something that huge in our own 'backyard'?

You do realise how far it is right? LOL possible over millions of years to orbit the sun its IN THE OORT cloud for freaks sake man. The sun light would barely light the planet thats why its so hard to see. Get it? Thats why they need Infra-red to see this easier

Originally posted by XRaDiiX

THAT MATTER GETTING SPEWED OUT NEVER ENTERED THE BLACK HOLE IT WAS JUST THE ACCRETION DISK AROUND IT and the MAGNETIC field of the BLACK HOLE throws the material away at almost the SPEED OF LIGHT away from the black HOLE. this stuff getting thrown away NEVER ENTERED THE BLACK HOLE REPEAT

Considering Black Holes themselves are still only theoretical, then it is reasonable to also assume the explanations of the high-speed outward bursts are ALSO theoretical. Quite frankly, nobody actually knows what causes them or where they originate from - unless you are saying you know something that the worlds top scientists dont?

Didnt think so. Hence why the article you quoted (without linking to btw) specifically states:

These data support the suggestion

loolsssss

Wow, that is immature.

Never at any point in time did I mention whether or not I subscribe to the 'Nibiru' theory. I was simply pointing out that if you are going to use something as evidence, GET THE EVIDENCE RIGHT before posting it.

Awaiting another immature, childish reply.......

EDIT: I just realised you are new to this website (why am I not surprised?) - I advise reading the Terms and Conditions and taking special notice of the section that deals with polite and intelligent replies.

reply to post by Kryties


Do me a favour and read this entire article it actually has one of the pictures you posted you might "Learn" something and it will tell you exactly what the astronomers OBSERVED while recording data of this BLACK HOLE. Regarding your theory that black holes can spew our material from these jets.

But in reality the material being spewed from the jets never ENTERED the black hole

www.space.com...

If some of you truly interested in the subject spent a fraction of the time learning some of the science (and the physics supporting that science) rather than taking fantastical guesses based on internet rumors your returns would be many fold. You could not only help others understand the workings of the cosmos, you would also have the tools to more easily discern fact from fiction and could reach your own conclusions independent of the rhetoric and hyperbole that always surrounds these type of claims.

First off, as Pauligirl posted above, Daniel P. Whitmire is the one of the original proponents of the Nemesis theory in 1984 and has spent the last 25 years refining the idea to what is presented in the OP. I make that note because between the Daily Mail's liberal application of the word "scientists" and a few misinformed posts in this thread it is easy to get the idea that some new data has been revealed or some new group has picked up the case for a large mass existing beyond pluto, which is not true.

In one of the links posted by Pauligirl, Dr. Whitmire goes so far as to say..

However, before we head for the bomb shelters, we should take heed of the professor's words: "As a practical matter our models will never be generally accepted (and shouldn't be) until the actual object is found." However stressing that they are "sufficiently plausible to give incentives for others to look".

The above quote is from 2002, it should be emphasized that there is no new supporting evidence in the current 2011 article. I thought it was an imaginative idea 20 years ago but here we are and the entirety of evidence is made of possible cyclical extinctions in the fossil record, the observed density of the oort cloud at its boundary and the steep trajectories in relation to the ecliptic plane a minority of comets observed in the last hundred years have taken. Big stretch to go from that bit to undiscovered gas giants but that is what its all built on. Unfortunately for Dr. Whitmire none of the phenomena listed exclusively require an explanation involving a massive object in the oort cloud.

The only change has been the revision of the mass necessary within their model from the sub stellar brown dwarf to planetary body, although the Daily Mail article would have you believe differently with this bit..

Data which could prove the existence of Tyche, a gas giant in the outer Oort Cloud, is set to be released later this year - although some believe proof has already been garnered by Nasa with its pace telescope, Wise, and is waiting to be pored over.

Nasa with its pace telescope? I'll let it go but is attentive proof reading a 500 word filler piece expecting too much?

The Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) would certainly be the tool however the survey was complete in 2010, the satellite is in hibernation and although the final analysis will be in 2013 nothing in the raw data has suggested any such object.

Results

By May 27, 2010, WISE discovered 12,141 previously unknown asteroids, of which 64 were considered near-Earth, and 11 new comets. This grew to 113 near-Earth asteroids and 16 comets by August 26, 2010. Two unambiguous brown dwarfs have been detected, although their distances are unknown, as well as some brown dwarf candidates.

By October 2010, over 33,500 new asteroids and comets were discovered, and nearly 154,000 solar system objects were observed by WISE. Out of this total on that date, 136 new NEA, PHA, & Comets were discovered. Out of these, 19 were new potentially hazardous asteroids, celestial objects both more likely to hit Earth and cause significant destruction (not to be confused with the more common but less dangerous Near Earth object (NEO)). As of Oct 2010, there are 1,151 PHA are known, including those found by WISE.

Discovery of an ultra-cool brown dwarf, WISEPC J045853.90+643451.9, about 10 to 20 light years away from Earth, was announced in late 2010 (from early data).

Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE)

The Daily Mail is a gossip rag long on hyperbole and lacking any real interest in journalistic integrity, as has been evidenced by the purposeful sensationalistic slant in the article.

I would also like to comment on a few random points in the thread.

CLPrime earlier post regarding the orbital period of something in the oort cloud is dead on. I double checked his numbers before posting and if anything his figures are conservative.

The accuracy of celestial mechanics is nothing short of amazing and seeing that the discipline is 400 years old I believe its safe to believe humanity has that part figured out.

Eccentric cometary orbits in no way imply eccentric planetary orbits. The solar system is too organized and too far evolved to humor the possibility of a huge mass crossing the orbit of the planets every few thousand years. The comparison also shows a lack of understanding the distances involved. Pluto is a looong way out at 40 AU +/- 10 depending on where in its orbit however the inner oort cloud doesn't start until 2000 AU and the outer oort cloud goes out to between 50,000 and 200,000 AU( the outer oort cloud is the possible location of planet X given in the Daily Mail write-up). Big difference in already inconceivable vast distances.

The gravitational influence of Dark matter, if it exists, is only indirectly observable on a galactic scale and would not apply to this discussion.

The Daily Mail headline "Four times the size of Jupiter!" is misleading for some. Four times the mass would be correct, as nobody has directly observed the object its physical size cant be established. The brown dwarf lower cutoff is currently established at about 13 times the mass of Jupiter. Contrary to a previous poster gas giant planets and brown dwarf objects are made of the same stuff, the only difference being a brown dwarf has enough mass to fuse deuterium. Interestingly, brown dwarf objects tend to stabilize at a volume close to that of Jupiter.

Lastly, does anyone else find it comical when someone on ATS attacks wikipedia as a legitimate source? Granted, its only as good as its editors but its a lot more accurate than 90% of the "facts" people toss about on here.

reply to post by XRaDiiX


Whoopdy doo. Its still a theory and only one study. Further Google searches will show you there are other theories as to their formation - each with there own set of supporting data....like this one here...

The scientists, including Kavli Institute for Astrophysics and Space Research expert Dan Evans, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), say that these opposite spins in the system lead to massive distortions and the warping of space-time. This in turn forces some of the matter in the accretion disk to become fuel for one of these high-energy jets.

news.softpedia.com...

or this one.....

Lister said supermassive black holes surrounded by "whirlpools" of extremely hot gas lie at the heart of most galaxies. When matter falls into the black hole, some gets accelerated upwards and outwards by the vast heats and pressures, creating jets of material blasted both up and down at 90º to the plane of the galaxy.

www.cosmosmagazine.com...

I can see by your immaturity and your rather jerky writing style that you are simply a basement-dweller pretending to be something he is not. My advice would be to get off your self-righteous podium and recognise that you are on a site that promotes 'intelligent discussion' - not one sided taunting of another opinions.

reply to post by Kryties


You know whats spectacular about your feeble mind is that both the articles you posted actually support the theory the matter never enters the black hole and just leaves the accretion disk to be ejected by the magnetic field into the jets *sigh*. The niburu followers never do learn.

You clearly just posted two things reinforcing the idea of the matter being ejected not entering the black hole but just being accelerated in the accretion disk and thrown from the black hole via the magnetic field around the black hole therefore matter from the accretion disk being ejected at nearly the speed of light presto you just helped me denounce your nonsense LOL.

and yes i posted it twice refuting your claims because you just contradicted yourself LOL

reply to post by XRaDiiX


And what is so spectacular about YOUR 'feeble mind' is that in your rush to make yourself feel good about your basement-dwelling life by dragging down others opinions, you forgot to realise that the articles I quoted assume the reader is sensible enough to work out that the matter they are describing must be already within the gravitational influence of the black hole for it to be accelerated outward. Once matter is within the gravitational influence it IS inside the black hole - considering that black holes are theoretically considered to be points of extreme gravity called singularities.

I almost feel sorry for you......

Nah.

Originally posted by XRaDiiX
The niburu followers never do learn.

Are you also blind? Did you not see my post where I wrote, in plain English, that I have never mentioned either way whether I do or do not support the 'Nibiru' theory? Oh that's right, you are too caught up basking in your own glory to read plain English.......

Typical noobie mistake on this website.

hmmm strange, as one person put. its millions of light years away. or something like you need infra red to see it, its that far away, its so hard to spot.

yet its going to miraculously WARP or creep up on us (like a thief in teh night) by December next year? and make a pass to alter earths orbit and somehow effect our gravitational pull making the earth stand still for a day while the guts swirls around inside spewing forth Armageddon, in which 3 days later the earth starts spinning again and a few weeks later everything is back to normal. minus humanity. and the planet is now a barren desert ripe for sunbathing reptilians. mmmmmm



ok.

reply to post by Ashyr



'millions of light years away' would put it in another galaxy - considering our own galaxy is only 26,000 light years across then methinks you should revise that figure a little. Its possible its far enough away to be halfway between us and our closest star 'Proxima Centauri' (V645 Centauri) which is 4.2421 light-years away from us.

If the object was massive enough it could certainly have an influence on our solar system even at 2 light-years distance. If this object was in an elliptical orbit, it is VERY possible that the inner planets could accelerate an incoming object so that it traverses the solar system itself quickly.

Again, I should stress I am not saying I believe in 'Nibiru' or 'Planet X' - I am simply pointing out that mathematics DOES suggest its possible - not only that it exists but that its speed could be accelerated once it came into the solar system from its elliptical orbit - and equally that it would slow down again as it exited.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Ok, first of all, nothing entering a black hole "pops out again" to our knowledge, so you are SPECULATING.

Ummmm......

So what are these then?

What you have there is what most in the business would call an artistic conception. I know it sounds official but thats just another fancy word for doodle.
Interestingly, if that satisfies your personal burden of proof, you don't have to stop at quasar driven sub luminal particle jets.

I've seen equally convincing artistic conceptions of dragons, unicorns and Elvis Presley attending his own funeral.

Sorry, but you had that coming.

Back on topic (somewhat)...

Originally posted by Kryties
I was simply pointing out that if you are going to use something as evidence, GET THE EVIDENCE RIGHT before posting it.

You would do well to listen to your own advice, most of what you have posted on the subject has been incorrect and when corrected you've been argumentative and insulting.

If you were honestly concerned with board etiquette perhaps next time you can set the example for a newer member rather than making an example out of yourself.

Try it, you obviously don't have much to loose.

Thats my two cents...

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

What you have there is what most in the business would call an artistic conception. I know it sounds official but thats just another fancy word for doodle.

Ummmm, yes I know that. They are artists representations of what scientists have theorised and what observations seem to suggest. Considering I have stated, several times, that its all theoretical it would be reasonable to therefore assume that the images are also theoretical representations - would it not?

And considering I never said otherwise, I find myself wondering what on Earth you are talking about - oh I get it, you're just trying to insult but sound intelligent in doing so.

Interestingly, if that satisfies your personal burden of proof, you don't have to stop at quasar driven sub luminal particle jets.

I've seen equally convincing artistic conceptions of dragons, unicorns and Elvis Presley attending his own funeral.

Sorry, but you had that coming.

Methinks you should eat your own foot.

Originally posted by Kryties
I was simply pointing out that if you are going to use something as evidence, GET THE EVIDENCE RIGHT before posting it.

You would do well to listen to your own advice, most of what you have posted on the subject has been incorrect and when corrected you've been argumentative and insulting.

If you were honestly concerned with board etiquette perhaps next time you can set the example for a newer member rather than making an example out of yourself.

Try it, you obviously don't have much to loose.

When that member starts accusing people of having 'feeble minds' and ending posts with childish 'LOLzzzzz' - they automatically lose my respect.

As an aside, those that don't read posts properly and jump on bandwagons ALSO lose my respect

Thats my two cents...

That's about all it's worth.

reply to post by Wildeagle


omg every red dwarf planet u hear about or read about people think its nibiru...never seems to amaze me

Originally posted by ANClENT
This is freaking incredible, I dont even know what else to say, I know i'm going to make a youtube video on this when more information is out

The question that remains is, what if the legends are true, what if the nephilim come here when the planet passes close to us

edit on 14-2-2011 by ANClENT because: (no reason given)

and at that size, it wouldn't need to even get that close to effect us...

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Wildeagle

 

omg every red dwarf planet u hear about or read about people think its nibiru...never seems to amaze me

Red Dwarf is a BBC TV comedy series. I don't think ANYONE has indicated that we have a BBC comedy series orbiting in the Oort Cloud named 'Nibiru'.

You mean Brown Dwarf aka a failed star.

If you are going to insult, try to at least double check your facts.