Do you feel like Having to Work is un-natural?

Hey, I totally sympathize with you. I have a degree, experience, and opportunity to take jobs that will make me very rich, BUT I refuse to sacrifice working the hours that these jobs demand. I want to travel the world.

THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES. I know some people here might be held down by a wife and kids, but if you're not, and have a bachelors degree, then go to Japan and teach English. Easy hours, high pay, low cost of living, rewarding job, a lot of time off. After a few years of saving up, and you get bored, travel to Australia, where it is easy to get a work visa and work somewhere else. You will network with many people and have opportunities opening up left and right.

Look into alternatives. There are many out there.

Originally posted by baked

Originally posted by shagula
How do you feel about Egypt right now? In 'your perfect world of unicorns and candy' where you don't have to work, don't have technology, just have you and your chickens you'd be... sitting there, asking "what's an Egipt?" You wouldn't have any possibility to travel, to see the world. To see a different landscape, to meet different people, to feel romance... that's certainly worth giving up.

Woah. I never said I didn't want to work. In fact, I disagreed with the OP's original question. If I lived without technology, I would be working my ass off.

Me and my chickens, huh? LMAO

Whats wrong with chickens? Fresh eggs everyday and meat that isnt polluted from who knows where. I love mah chickens

Originally posted by baked

Originally posted by shagula
How do you feel about Egypt right now? In 'your perfect world of unicorns and candy' where you don't have to work, don't have technology, just have you and your chickens you'd be... sitting there, asking "what's an Egipt?" You wouldn't have any possibility to travel, to see the world. To see a different landscape, to meet different people, to feel romance... that's certainly worth giving up.

Woah. I never said I didn't want to work. In fact, I disagreed with the OP's original question. If I lived without technology, I would be working my ass off.

Me and my chickens, huh? LMAO

I definitely see where you're coming from.

But really, what work would you do without technology? How would it be any different than living like a native off of the land, or being a farmer?

Do you want to go back to the 'Good ol' days of telegraphs and horses and saloons'? Or to live in a sheltered, tiny part of the world happily with nothing but your surroundings?

Work in itself isn't unnatural. What's unnatural is the fact that someone else is enjoying the fruits of your labor. Even people making "good money" (in societal terms) aren't coming close to receiving their true value.

With that being said, the only profession where work and a sustainable good come at a near 1:1 tradeoff is farming, but even then, corporate interests have marginalized those efforts.

So with that, understanding where you're coming from, I leave you with a quote:

"You can't conquer a free man, the most you can do is kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

Work is not unnatural. It is perfectly natural and in fact entirely required for our continued survival.

The problem is that your ego resists anything that it does not find satisfying. You are unable to accept what is happening in the moment. If your mind would just shut up and allow the self to live fully in the moment, all resistance would fall away and there would be no more suffering nor struggle.

"Work" then happens by itself completely spontaneously, and there is no problem doing it.

it´s 21 century slavery, things like the water that you drink, you should never ever have to pay for it, same thing with electricity, why pay for absolutely everthing that is invented, except the air? it is called CONTROL OVER THE POPULATION, IF YOU DO NOT THINK THE SAME WAY, THEN EXPLAIN THIS SO CALLED WORLD ECONOMIC CRISIS.. all because of our own ignorance.. plus now everthing costs more, if one opens his/her eyes they will see. it is un natural to get up at 8 am TO GO TO WORK, I´ll say it again TO GO TO WORK . for what?? almost 7 billion people get up at the same time, yet another day to do the same lame ars thing over and over and over... and this is "natural"? I think not

reply to post by GeminiSky


Certain work is NOT unnatural because we cognitively realize that it serves an important function for survivability and sustainability of the human race. Medical professionals and other people in fields like that.

But people who are bogged down in corporate jobs or other jobs that seem to serve no important function will start to feel as if it is meaningless...BECAUSE IT IS.

More and more people are beginning to realize to some extent that the way society is running right now is not the best available way. Although they might not all be able to articulate it...they express it in various ways. Anger, cynicism, depression, etc.

I know they have done an estimate on what would happen if suddenly there was no internet, or a world collapse. All though I don't remember who did it. something like 70% of the United States population would die or perish within the first year. More likely because import would stop. Your money would be no good. Most people would not know how to survive after they ate themselves out of food. This occurs because people have became reliant on the social system. getting up and going to work each morning has became a sense of survival,. and currently works for the larger part of mankind. I do believe myself, working to better the community is a grand thing now .The fact of the matter is we live by rules for the better of the man down the road. There is no going back and changing the fact that by accepting technology. We have thus put our lives in motion for supporting it. Going hunting today is considered a sport not an act of survival. In fact now the law supervises you while you do it. and charges you. So not only should you go to work , if your going to chase down the bunny you have too .

I watched my grandparents do things the 'ol way' for most of their life. My grandfather was over 65 when he bought his first home.

Until then they farmed, raised their own meat, and grandma was ALWAYS sowing or canning foods. Grandpa worked from sun up till sun down. Neither of them ever had a job outside of this life. If you ate at their home, the food was food they grew or raised. For the things they did need cash for...they sold the quilts that my grandmother made.

They worked harder through their life then anyone I have seen or met, to this day.

Im not saying that all jobs out there are better then the way of a honest living....but I also dont think many realize how hard of a job it is to live off of the land.

Have any of you tried to turn the ground for a garden...without modern day tillers? You dont just do it once...but several times. You dont just take the top soil and turn it over but you have to dig down deep so you are making good sowing grounds for the roots to dig deep into the Earth. You dont just put a seed in the ground and watch it grow. If weather or insects destroys your crops...your doomed. Course there are many other things too that can kill a live stock of animals or kill a whole crop of food. I had 12 tomato planets this year and had to throw out more then half of the tomatoes that it produced due to trial and errors and learning that the ground that I was sowing in did not have enough calcium for the tomatoes.

Im all for doing as much as one can do off of the land....but Im also for the back up plan in society to have the option of working for a wage. Im for retirement plans as well. I hope I am not doing back braking work in my garden at the age of 60. I really dont think I could do it.

My grandpas hands were calloused....my grandmothers hands were too. They both were early to bed because they had to rise before dawn. To work hard labor...you have to have good sleep. Its one thing to work all day at a desk job...its totally another to work all day in productive labor work.

Edit to add...Grandpa did make some side money through working for the church by mowing the grass and he would sell some of his crop each year as well. They just like anyone...needed money shelter, electric, water, and gas. My Christmas gifts from my grandparents was not something bought in a store...but was something that was made by my grandma.

Originally posted by scifi-dude
it´s 21 century slavery, things like the water that you drink, you should never ever have to pay for it, same thing with electricity, why pay for absolutely everthing that is invented, except the air? it is called CONTROL OVER THE POPULATION, IF YOU DO NOT THINK THE SAME WAY, THEN EXPLAIN THIS SO CALLED WORLD ECONOMIC CRISIS.. all because of our own ignorance.. plus now everthing costs more, if one opens his/her eyes they will see. it is un natural to get up at 8 am TO GO TO WORK, I´ll say it again TO GO TO WORK . for what?? almost 7 billion people get up at the same time, yet another day to do the same lame ars thing over and over and over... and this is "natural"? I think not

I hear ya man.

I'm a salesman as well. I don't make a large amount of money at all. (should be considering what I sell)

BUT --- Yes work could definitely be structured way better. If corporations weren't running the world I think we all would be surprised at how easy and fruitful work could be.

I've thought quite often how living off the land would be, I know I can do it with no problem, just like my pops says, "we're survivors, we'll never not eat, no matter the situation." It would be very rewarding I believe.

It just seems a much more simple gratifying way to live, instead of worrying about debt and next months payments, and affording food.

I'm not saying we should all be living like we did a century ago but that you would think with as far as we, whether in this country or even international societies have come (whether socially, economically or technologically), we would have found a better way to work, eat and most important LIVE and raise our families. Yet it has stayed the same or even gotten worse... I believe though, with people waking up we will find this center ground where we all could be living like ceo's or how ever you want to live.

reply to post by lostfreedom

you know the system now charges wind tax, in the windmill states ,right

Originally posted by ProvehitoInAltum
Just my opinions here, though they echo sentiments of some others.

I don't think 'work' is a bad thing, the problem is that we don't have 'work' any more. Instead, in America we have a system of free range slavery. Toil away for a pittance and have no life. Put in just as many hours as the Big Boss who is getting a $1,000,000 bonus when you're lucky to be getting $30,000. Pay it all back in taxes and utilities to those same people making that $1,000,000 while the pimps on Madison Avenue try to sell you more unessescary crap that is designed from square 1 to break on you two days after the warranty is up. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

It's a very different world than the one I grew up in...

I remember a conversation I had not too long ago in France. The gentleman I was speaking to made what I thought was a very good point: Europeans work to live... Americans live to work. Very true.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE PICTURE! Its not that there isn't enough light, its distributed unequally. A corporate ceo works 60 hours a week, assuming he doesn't like golf much, but so do many unskilled blue collar workers.

One makes $5 million a year and the other makes $30 grand meaning knowledge is everything and hard work is NOTHING! That is a terrible misnomer that has been perpetuated throughout the ages. It pays to be a cunning theif such as the rothschilds, rockefellers or jp morgan but if you make an honest living your A FOOL!

I think most people are sick and tired of the double standards in life. If your wealthy the law is on your side, you pay less taxes, get better lawyers, go to a minimum security facility if your not lucky enough to avoid jail altogether.......while your average fool goes to jail for sticking up a convience store and $500.

Fools work hard just to survive while the cunning evil "elite" work less for 100 fold your salary!

reply to post by GeminiSky


Hey im an evil genius too. lol.
But i feel the same about working a 9-5.
I dont think its the labor part because we do that anyway i think its more of being told what to do by some pencil neck geek and getting minimum wage to bust our ass all day and night.
As a species we only like the things we feel are worth the time we have to put in to get it. Working 40+ hours a week for a $400 check isnt. So yes i can understand how you feel.

Originally posted by scifi-dude
it´s 21 century slavery, things like the water that you drink, you should never ever have to pay for it, same thing with electricity, why pay for absolutely everthing that is invented, except the air? it is called CONTROL OVER THE POPULATION, IF YOU DO NOT THINK THE SAME WAY, THEN EXPLAIN THIS SO CALLED WORLD ECONOMIC CRISIS.. all because of our own ignorance.. plus now everthing costs more, if one opens his/her eyes they will see. it is un natural to get up at 8 am TO GO TO WORK, I´ll say it again TO GO TO WORK . for what?? almost 7 billion people get up at the same time, yet another day to do the same lame ars thing over and over and over... and this is "natural"? I think not

Okay... this is my last post trying to extract exactly what people want to do with their life everyday...


So I ask, in a world that was perfect for you, what would you do everyday?

What would you contribute, where would you live, with what, with who... would you be the ruler? Would there be a ruler? Is it a community, is it just you, is it your family?

What would you do DIFFERENT ever day that makes going to work such a boring, repetitive, good for nothing task? I'd also like to exaggerate that I'm not some guy all for working your 80 hours, but you have to go on a balancing act. I've been in and out of jobs, I've held a job for years, and held one as little as 3 months. I've been unemployed, I've worked 60 hour weeks. I've made a lot of money, I've made very little.

What I'm doing now? And I'm very happy. I'm currently looking for a new job, so unemployed. I got my tax return just barely and will easily live on that while still buying a brand new PS3 just because I WANT TO (and because I worked my ass off last year to get that return). I rent a house with some friends, but only pay for my room and utilities. Everything I own is in that room. I have a new computer (because I'm a tech geek), an electric guitar (because I love the beauty in music), a desk and a sofa. I relax here, and also party here with my friends. This is my little world, and I like it that way.

I quit my last job because I was becoming a corporate slave. Yes, I've seen every side of this discussion! I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE technology and am amazing with it. I've built computers since I was 6, taught myself how to program, have provided technical support for friends and family, and in a professional environment. I am 19 years old, and have lived on my own since I was 17 with absolutely no support from family. Everything I own I bought with my money, from my jobs. I would say I only really, really liked ONE of my jobs. And it was hard to get up in the mornings for it sometimes...

But I play this balancing act. I have a car, I take care of it. I don't make it super nice, but I keep it clean. I eat healthy, I don't waste any of my food on corporatized and nasty, degrading fast food and cook most if not all of my food. I am ALWAYS looking for new jobs, at least an hour of my day every day looking for a new experience to bring me money, something to do, and more experience. I have a window I sit here and look out of, seeing how BEAUTIFUL the day is right now. It's amazing outside! And winter is JUST ending. I care a LOT about my fellow man, and love educating myself and other people.

I have registered for college and pursuing a degree in computer science. Again, all on my own. My thoughts, my decisions. But I want to help the world, to gain knowledge, to travel, see the world. And I know there's a lot I have to sacrifice... but then I can look back and see I have a warm room with a window, where I can keep all my worldly posessions, I can make music when I want to or play from my massive collection of music from everywhere around the world from my computer. I can play video games, or look for a job. I can teach myself a new programming language. I can go outside, ride a bike or go on a hike. And I could do all of those things on a weekend away from work, be just as happy, and STILL getting MORE money to get more STUFF!!!

I enjoy my stuff. I don't wanna live in the forest in a shack, I don't want to sit in a field for entertainment, I don't want to have to walk 3 miles to see another human being. I don't want to have to protect myself or my family from any crazy amounts of dangers that exist in the world, rather pay some due to who provide it for me in taxes. But I'll be damned if I don't love ATS as something to make sure my dues are going somewhere they deserve to be. To understand what's going on in my life, in my country, in the world and how to appreciate it all. How to make positive changes for everyone...

Hey, it could be much worse. You could be a chinese laborer, living in the basement of an impoverished building with no windows and a public bathroom with no walls. Giving EVERYTHING AND YOUR LIFE to the man. To those who don't see the beauty in life, the tragedy going around them but living in ignorant bliss, just like the man who would like to retreat to the secluded woods. I want to help these people. I want to make the factory task mundane, why not automate that factory job, give that worker an education and have them use their minds to actually MAKE something. Preposterous, I know. We should all just head to the hills.

reply to post by GeminiSky


Haha, well, it is unnatural. My opinion check out the Gospels, (Matt., Mark, Luke, John) they tell you what Christ thinks about money. Also we've been led to believe that most work these days is natural. Of course, I'm not saying you aren't supposed to do any work, but our current system is very flawed. And things like money (money-venom) aren't that important. If you feel that work is taking your life and maybe even your spirit, Leave. Ask Him what you should do, those who rely on God for food and shelter are truly better off than those of us who work for it.
That's how I see it.

Peace be with you.

reply to post by GeminiSky




I am about to get in a lot of flaming for this response...

Work = BAD... I am allergic to it... it is a condition I was born with...


When I do things it is because I want to do them... not because I have been forced to by any man.... I even get upset with myself when I have to force myself to get things done.

It is because you recognise it as the slavery it is... pure and simple...

now like the song plan your break out...

Freedom...

The financial part is very hard and interest... emotions get riled up... so start simply with this book...

richest man in babylon -Amazon

read it...


Your also old enough now to be told a little bit more of the truth...

for your great escape... your gonna need a great partner in crime... make sure you are finding one that will have your back... together you can win your freedom...



make sure your partner has your back... it is two against the world... post and let us know how the fight for your freedom goes and remember you have taken the first step...

Admiting you have a problem is the first step...

To FREEDOM... may its blessings come to you and yours as you fight and claw your way past those who enjoy there lot in life....

Originally posted by Byteman
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

So you just follow the bull with your mouth open or something?

no actually I do not follow a bull... I am a follower of the Force.

my answer was only an observation deduced using a tool from one of the worlds renown atheist (Sigmund Freud), the tool is known as psychoanalysis and is accepted via the doctrine of atheism.

see when choosing to fight fire with fire it is all in fair play... Atheists must profess their atheism onto and in front of others to justify the means of their existence or the existence they seek to live. It is very easy to understand when one actually defines the word "Work" in the context it is being used.

to work in this context of the question being asked in the topics title in all actuality means to "Labor" for if one did go out into the world and actually till the ground or create structures they would lean the definition of their personal God.

Atheists are naysayers of everything and anything that does not conform to their own personal world beyond the fact of seeking riches at the expense of their fellow man/woman.

Teaching is not working... teaching is teaching, Writing is not working, writing is writing... Building a house is working, digging a ditch is working.

I haven't read all the thread yet so i assume someone has advised you to read "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist". I am 50 now and haven't worked for 20 years or more. I made a conscious decision to live on very little money but to have time to do anything i want to do each day. I can't understand what keeps people going to work just to buy new things when they don't have time to enjoy their latest accquisition. It seems lately though that some people are starting to question the reasoning behind this mass hypnosis. Most people would be lost if they had to get off the treadmill,don't they ever ask themselves why they are doing it day after day. When i am walking my dog through the beautiful countryside i know that there are people at that moment in boring meetings or having to deal with the public, what is driving them? I find most people incredibly greedy for money, to the detriment of freedom. The op is lucky that he is questioning the work set up,i hope he thinks of what he would really enjoy doing and tries to break out before he is ground down making money for the small percentage of people who buy and sell the rest of us.

Consider your realization a blessing,... it takes many people their whole lives to realize that they are not defined by their work and that they have a choice in what they decide to do for a living. You have realized this before it is too late to do something about it. Your choices and abilities define the work you need to do to afford your chosen lifestyle. A home of reasonable size, growing your own food, not needing the new car. If you chose wisely you won't have to be trapped in the rat race. Those who are trapped are in a cage of their own making. Best of luck and congratulations on your clarity of thought!