What has 'Anonymous' done that is worthy of support???

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion

 

Last but not least you don't support vigilantism against oppressive governments, corporations???

No I don't...not if it means harming others in the process...and that only applies to oppressive governments.

Peoples anger towards corporations is irrational IMO.

Anonymous's attacks against Visa and Paypal were misplaced. Visa and Paypal had to comply with a government order...if Anonymous didn't like the government order...they should of taken it up with them. But they are not strong enough or brave enough to try that...so they took it out on those that had to comply with the order.

So for instance when the Iranian protest were happening it would have been better that Anonymous did not get involved and create a forum where the Iranian people could bypass the restrictions and censorship that their Government had imposed on them, so they could communicate to each other and the world what was going on??

I already stated I supported that action.

It didn't attack anyone else...it was a helpful action...not a harmful action.

So if your Government was sensoring freedom of speech and oppressing its people where it had a direct effect on you and your family, would you be anti web vigilante then?? I doubt it!

Besides the Iranian example...non of Anonymous's actions have anything to do with what you just stated. Even the Irish example...it was a political party...not the government.

And like I said...I will take care of me and my own.

You see you keep missing the point! Doesnt matter that it was a party and not the Government (although they will probably be the next Government) its the point thats important! Don't claim to be setting up a Website so that the views of the Irish people can be heard, then go ahead and censor that website to paint the political party involved in a good light! And if it wasn't for Anon none of us in Ireland would have been any the wiser! Also Maybe they dont directly attack the present Governments for the reasons you stated before! Internet censorship! A current sitting Government attacked would have the power to implement policies and fast track them through the political process!

reply to post by MindSpin


Operation payback isn't about paying for movies.

Operation payback is a strike back at the industry for hiring companies in India to engage in illegal hacking and DDos attacks. The recording industry decided to break the law in an attempt to protect their monopoly by hiring the Indian firms. Anon struck back.

Knowing what you are talking about makes your points far more valid...

If the people responsible for the Iranian forums and other (in your opinion) benevolent actions of Anonymous formed a splinter group, you could support them?

I'll call them The White Hat Order of Anonymous.

"WHOA!" - Joey Lawrence

reply to post by kcfusion

Its like this your getting nowhere with your spin on the bad things Anonymous have done but which you cannot prove

You won't accept any source as proof. Short of my trying to track down a member of Anonymous and having him have a press conference...you won't believe anything that I put up. And even then...I'm sure you would just say "Well how do you know he was really from Anonymous???".

You have buried your head...I don't really care to try to dig it out. That is up to you.

so now you saying they are going to be the cause of Internet Censorship because you think you'll have more success.
...
But why stop at Anonymous, what about wikileaks thats another reason to censor the net right?

No, I haven't really switched to it...I have had that opinion for a long time.

And yes...I do think Wikileaks also did more harm than good and could be used as a justification for censorship. I have said this before many times about Wikileaks. It's not in my post history...well...because I am new here

ATS could be another reason if you want to go down that route as well.

Well that made me chuckle a little bit. If anything...ATS helps "censoring" the internet by all the mis-information that is thrown around on here.

ATS isn't a very good source to use for that example...ATS is hardly ever right about anything...or the world should have ended at least 10 times just this year. Oh...and Obama should of put us all in FEMA camps and come out as a Muslim.

Right?? See where I'm going here

Nope...Anonymous and Wikileaks are justifications to internet censorship (restrictions)...and rightly so...because of their "illegal" activities in using the net.

reply to post by MindSpin


Ha ha its you who has his head buried because you cannot provide any proof! Why? Because its impossible to aqquire it isn't it? So now do you see why I asked! Because your opinion is based upon.......................thats right Zero proof

As for the censorship... do you suggest we all hop skip and jump for the PTB so that they won't take away our precious internet? That seems to be what your suggesting! Or what are you suggesting?

As for ATS your new here but all information that goes up on the web of any interest gets posted here so say the Government censors wikileaks etc and its posted on ATS... what do you think will happen ATS. And I agree there is so much crap out on this site but there is certainly some excellent information on a wide range of subjects and the added benefit, that every bit of that info is picked apart (sometimes nearly over picked) by a vast amount of highly intelligent members from all parts of the world! So keep that in mind as well!


Edit to add: Wikileaks and Anonymous would not exist if it was not for this veil of secrecy surrounding governments, corporations, agenda's, warmongering, war profiteering, corruption etc etc etc In my world secrecy would be illegal! Then Wikileaks and Anonymous would not have to exist now would they?

reply to post by kcfusion

Ha ha its you who has his head buried because you cannot provide any proof! Why? Because its impossible to aqquire it isn't it? So now do you see why I asked! Because your opinion is based upon.......................thats right Zero proof

I'm perfectly fine with the proof I have. There are thousands of articles linking Anonymous to those events....none that I can find that shows Anonymous stating they were not involved.

That works for me.

You still haven't told me what would be acceptable proof to you though???

As for the censorship... do you suggest we all hop skip and jump for the PTB so that they won't take away our precious internet?

Or how about we just don't use the internet to break laws??? Then they have no justification to do anything about it....WOW...that seems so simple and responsible...no?

Or do you insist on being allowed to break laws...as long as it is on the internet...because that is your "right" and your "freedom"???

by a vast amount of highly intelligent members from all parts of the world!

Self identified "highly intelligent" members.

Don't get me wrong...there are a couple that I know of...but let's not flatter ourselves too much

I also hear (according to the ATS members photos thread) that all ATS chicks are hot

reply to post by MindSpin


Oh well I'm definitely not talking about myself! Im a researcher. I very rarely post and I hate typing with a passion plus I can't seem to get my words to come across and eloquently as others do

Look I only added a bit to the end of the last post there now.

Heres a scenario for you. Your Government decides to go to war with Iran, you are told this is because they are dangerous and nukes etc etc So your son goes and enrolls to protect your freedoms etc. During which he is killed.
However due to the illegal hacking of a Government website, a document is made public knowledge which indicates that the People who made the decision to go to war had direct connections to a war profiteering corporation and also that the intel given to the public about the danger of Iran was falsified to gain public approval to go to war... would you

A. Ignorance is bliss i'd rather not know!
B. That the document was gained ilegally and these people who hacked the site should be stopped at all costs?
C. Support the hackers so that the same thing never happens again?

reply to post by kcfusion

Heres a scenario for you. Your Government decides to go to war with Iran, you are told this is because they are dangerous and nukes etc etc So your son goes and enrolls to protect your freedoms etc. During which he is killed.
However due to the illegal hacking of a Government website, a document is made public knowledge which indicates that the People who made the decision to go to war had direct connections to a war profiteering corporation and also that the intel given to the public about the danger of Iran was falsified to gain public approval to go to war... would you

A. Ignorance is bliss i'd rather not know!
B. That the document was gained ilegally and these people who hacked the site should be stopped at all costs?
C. Support the hackers so that the same thing never happens again?

Oh yes...the "moral" scenario.


Sorry to dissapoint you...but I would have told my son before he enlisted that this is HIS decision...and that he shouldn't believe everything he is told. I'm 100% against US military force used in anything other than defending American soil...because every other action is not for our protection...but for the purpose of empire building.

So I really wouldn't care what the "hackers" found...because I would of already disagreed with my son going off to expand the empire.

And yes...I do think the "hackers" in your scenario should be punished for their crimes.


Again...sorry to dissapoint that I'm not going to fall into your trap.

It's a TRAP!

I think when the original points of the whole argument in the first place are based off of bits and pieces of a wikipedia article, the whole argument is fail to start with. -1,000 internets for you.

I still think that this Anonymous guy seems reallyy cool and he doesn't afraid of anything!

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by kcfusion

 

Heres a scenario for you. Your Government decides to go to war with Iran, you are told this is because they are dangerous and nukes etc etc So your son goes and enrolls to protect your freedoms etc. During which he is killed.
However due to the illegal hacking of a Government website, a document is made public knowledge which indicates that the People who made the decision to go to war had direct connections to a war profiteering corporation and also that the intel given to the public about the danger of Iran was falsified to gain public approval to go to war... would you

A. Ignorance is bliss i'd rather not know!
B. That the document was gained ilegally and these people who hacked the site should be stopped at all costs?
C. Support the hackers so that the same thing never happens again?

Oh yes...the "moral" scenario.


Sorry to dissapoint you...but I would have told my son before he enlisted that this is HIS decision...and that he shouldn't believe everything he is told. I'm 100% against US military force used in anything other than defending American soil...because every other action is not for our protection...but for the purpose of empire building.

So I really wouldn't care what the "hackers" found...because I would of already disagreed with my son going off to expand the empire.

And yes...I do think the "hackers" in your scenario should be punished for their crimes.


Again...sorry to dissapoint that I'm not going to fall into your trap.

I was not trying to trap you, maybe that says something in itself, I was just trying to gauge your mindset and have been successful in doing so, we have nothing further to discuss really! Good day and good luck with life!

reply to post by YourPopRock


Ironically I have to say that I had this huge long post worked out on what I was going to say, but after thinking about it I have to admit that yes I am a bit hesitant to post it as the last thing I want is to draw the ire of a group of hackers. So yea I would say that from it seems Anonymous isn't keen on free speech all the time, so I will keep it to myself

I think many overestimate the 'singularity of purpose' that the group has. Part of their strength is the nature of their membership. I think many would be shocked if they really knew who was and wasn't part of the whole phenomenon. In my imagination.... opinion.... (I'm guessing here)..... this is not an 'organization' ... it is a "movement". In that regard, its actions are very easily confused as coordinated... when in fact, they are not.

reply to post by MindSpin


Its war man, and that was a preemptive strike. Being a war, it is what it is and you do not have to agree with it. They were aware that they were being plotted against and they defended themselves.

They were not trying to suppress any freedom of speech. They were sending a message via digital destruction. Much the same way as other wars are fought, the battlefield is just different. The anarchist in me is enjoying having them around.

A Letter from Anonymous: Our Message, Our Intentions, and Potential Targets


In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

~George Orwell

"You may think your actions are meaningless and that they won't help, but that is no excuse, you must still act."

~ Mahatma Gandhi

"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither"

~ Ben Franklin Hello World. We are Anonymous. What you do or do not know about us is irrelevant. We have decided to write to you, the media, and all citizens of the free world to inform you of our intentions, potential targets, and our ongoing peaceful campaign for Freedom of Expression. Anonymous is peacefully campaigning for Freedom of Expression everywhere, in all forms, for all platforms.

The recent news of our efforts have been, at best, misinformed. We are not a terrorist organization or a group of "hackers" as governments, demagogues, and the media would have you believe. We are a diverse group that touches every aspect of philosophy, religion, and politics ever conceived by man. At this time, Anonymous, as a distributed consciousness, is focused on protesting peacefully for Freedom of Expression on the Internet. We ask the world to support us, not for our sake, but for your own. When governments control information they control you. We will resist until our dying breath. Pay attention citizens and governments of the world.

History is full of examples that show that governments can change when people stand united.

As an example in recent history: During the Civil Rights Movement in the United States in the 1960s access to many businesses were blocked as a peaceful protest against segregation. In their efforts, the protesters of the time managed to make drastic changes to police and governments by refusing to be silenced.

In the spirit and memory of that movement and many others we will refuse to be silenced. We will protest!

It is here that we proclaim: Any individual, organization, corporation, and/or government entity which supports Freedom of Speech and a Free Internet is an ally of Anonymous. If you work to suppress Freedom of Expression and a Free Internet your efforts will be halted. Where others have made this promise and failed, we make this promise and aim to keep it for everyone. We would like to ask that you as a citizen, organization, media entity, or government do the same by joining us.

Signed,

Anonymous

source

Making an inquiry as to any uprising in America that is famous in constitution bill of rights etc... for purposes of re-enactment not looking for a bloodie one but more of a peaceful one that still had gumph and honor respect.
Something that had a purpose. remained civil?

Originally posted by MindSpin
Recently it has been suggested to me by another member that I should leave the ATS community for my lack of support of Anonymous.

I have a simple question...why should Anonymous have our support?

Some on here paint Anonymous as a freedom fighting group...out to protect the rights of indivduals and bring openness to the world.

I don't see it that way. I see them as a enemy of free speech...after all if someone says something they don't like...they try to hack them.

For example...Gene Simmons:

Gene Simmons Attack

Make sure your brand is protected… Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. Sue everybody. Take their homes, their cars. Don't let anybody cross that line.

In response to this statment...Anonymous DDoS attacked his website. Why? Does Gene Simmons not have the right to his own opinion? Did his statement prevent anyone from expressing their own opinion?

But in response...Anonymouse shuts down Gene Simmons website...his "voice" to the internet. Why is taking away someones voice on the internet something worthy of praise?

If you don't like what he said...don't listen to him...don't purchase anything he sells...create your own website to protest his actions...but don't attack his website...that only proves that you are trying to silence him...to try to remove his ability to communicate. Does that sound like a group that are freedom fighters?


Or how about the the kid that started the "No Cussing Club" website. For what reason did this cause Anonymous to obtain this kids personal information...leak it on the web...and harrass him?

No Cussing Club Attack

In January 2009 members of Anonymous targeted California teen McKay Hatch who runs the No Cussing Club, a website against profanity.[58][59] As Hatch's home address, phone number, and other personal information were leaked on-line, his family has received a lot of hate mail, lots of obscene phone calls, and even bogus pizza and pornography deliveries

WHY? Why should a group that does something like this deserve our support?

What is the point behind an action like this (I know...it's for the lulz)...but why would anyone support a group that does something like this just for kicks? Again...does this sound like a nobel freedom fighting group to anyone?


One more example...and this is the one that really just confuses me as to why anyone would support a group that does something like this.

YouTube Porn Day

On May 20, 2009, members of Anonymous uploaded numerous pornographic videos onto YouTube.[61] Many of these videos were disguised as children's videos or family friendly videos with tags such as "Jonas brothers."[61] YouTube has since removed all videos uploaded. The BBC contacted one of the uploaders who stated that it was a "4chan raid" organized due to the removal of music videos from YouTube.[62] BBC News reported that one victim posted a comment saying: "I'm 12 years old and what is this?"[62] which went on to become an internet meme.

So they put porn videos on YouTube...and trick kids into watching them by putting misleading titles on them. Again I ask...WHY would anyone support a group that does things like this?

What does this prove? What message are they trying to get across? And why would anyone think this is something that is worthy of support?



I would really like to hear anyones justification for any of the above actions.

Or justify any DDoS attacks in general. To me...a DDoS attack says "We don't like your opinions or what you are saying...so we are going to shut you down.". This is what they did to Egypts governments public website...how is this any different than the Egyptian government shutting down the internet? How do you say you are against something when you are doing the EXACT same thing to fight against it???

Again...it is like Anonymous saying: "We don't like your opinions, actions or what you are saying...so we are going to shut you down."

That doesn't sound like "freedom fighters" to me...that sounds like Tyrants. So why should we support tyrants?

Expect us Always.

Anonymous the theory? Or anonymous the reality? Because these are two very different things...

Anonymous, most of the time, is nothing more than an army of script kiddies who haunt internet forums and cause chaos and destruction without any real motive, pattern, or purpose - save to stroke their E-egos. Download an executable file, slap a Fawkes mask pic onto your profile, and say cryptic crap like "we are legion" and *bam* you're one of the cool kids.

This aspect of anon is a constant and never ending pain in the collective ass of the Internet. And this is the aspect of anon that tends to do the lame and pointless things that the OP brings up here.

Having said that... there is a method to this madness. Because behind the chaotic BS is a small cadre of people who have the ability to direct and control the chaos. The coders... The herders... The ones who write the scripts. And these are those who are really anonymous.

You hide behind seven proxies? Well the people with the real power don't need proxies. They are hiding behind hundreds of thousands, or even millions of you.

This small group of people are the ones who really hold the power. And they do use that power for noble ends, sometimes. They have, in the past, attacked government servers, assisted in war efforts, gone after companies with horrible business practices, etc. But there is another side to this as well...

Botnets are huge profit making machines. They are used in corporate warfare and they do not come cheap.

So, to answer your OP....

It all depends on which aspect of "anonymous" you are asking about. The 99.9% who are ego driven script kiddies? Or the .01% who really run the show?

~Heff

reply to post by MindSpin


BOXY!!

Aww she was nice tho, but NEEDED to be stopped!!!