Roswell. Do you believe?

Hanger 18 was the base of operations,not a holding center for bodies.

Hangar 18 was supposedly the hangar used at Wright Field (now WPAFB) at the time of the crash retrieval....there is nothing to suggest that it (a hangar) was the base of operations. It was simply convenient at the time, and other than this one instance, there really isn't much more evidence of it's connection to UFOs. The base itself, however, DOES have many references to it being involved in the biological side of the crash retrievals.

According to what I have read, AND the people I have talked to....there was more than one UFO crash in the Roswell area. Unlike most of you, I have MET and talked to people like Walter Haut, who was the INFORMATION OFFICER at the time of the 1947 crash. He would not have released the info to the newspaper and radio if he had not been TOLD TO DO IT!

Interesting, must have been an informative interview. I myself have talked to many of the researchers at numerous cons, including D. Schmidt, and S. Friedman. Yes, there is evidence of more than the crash near Roswell, but are you referring to the two crash sites of the one crash, or the theory that two craft collided with each other? There was also at least one separate incident altogether, that happened later in the same general area...

When Military Intelligence arrived,just where did they set up their HQ? A convenient Air Force base,why not?
Now,why did the evidence dissapear and all this disinformation come about?
Flying is risky.And our Visitor friends had an accident.They do not mind using wheels you know.I found that out.

Hangar 18 was at Wright Field (in OHIO!), not the Roswell base (in New Mexico)... They are two separate entities. Roswell was an Army Air Field (the USAF didn't exist at the time, it was created as part of the Security Act, enacted by Truman later that same month).

Military Intelligence, specifically, Jesse Marcell, was dispatched from the Air Field. There was no "HQ" set up (especially in Ohio!), as it wasn't necessary, the crash sites were in the middle of nowhere. Even the rancher that found the debris (Brazel) didn't discover it right away, nor the second crash site. Some of the debris was loaded up, and taken to Roswell, until the later retrieval team, gathered all of it. Soon after, General Ramey, commander of the base, was directed to enact the coverup, and Marcell then posed with the balloon debris used for the coverup photos and retraction (as the Air Field press officer, the aforementioned Haut, had already released the story to the Roswell paper...I have a copy of this btw...interesting read).

The debris was flown to Wright Field (even the Air Force admits this, in it's Mogul definition...a fact which doesn't make sense, given Wright Field's role, btw...), and supposedly it was taken into Hangar 18 (hence the folklore).

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Gazrok]

My guess, Gazrok, is that current biological aspects of the whole phenomina are currently being conducted at Dulce and Area 51. Since area 51, as you stated is big, and has alot of underground layers, who knows?

I think Wright patterson was where they sent the pieces of the craft, the bodies, even more damning than the craft, were probably kept far away from heavily populated areas. But you could be right as well. They could have been originally studied at Wright, then to further the mprject, shipped elsewhere for further....experimentation.

Area 51 was started soon after Roswell...but didn't exist at the time (from what I've seen), so yes, Wright Field, (as the place to study foreign aircraft at the time) seems the likely candidate for both (at the time). And, as mentioned, the Air Force has admitted that the debris was flown to Wright.

According to other docs (such as the still disputed Security Manual), it appears that after the establishment of Area 51 (and the whole reorganization of the defense department with the Security Act, to compartmentalize the knowledge), the biologics went to the "Blue Lab" at Wright Patterson, and the tech gear would go to S-4 near Area 51 for reverse-engineering. This precludes Lazar's claim of a lab called "S-4" by the way. (see my thread on the security manual, for pics of the page listing where craft recoveries were designated to go, etc.).

Of course, since these references existed, other bases could have been designated afterwards, such as Dulce (if it exists) or similar type complexes...

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Gazrok]

Yup Gaz, when you think that only 30% of this country is inhabited, that leaves 70% of wide open desolate places, many of which accessable only by flight. So, it would be pretty easy for the govornment to build a very complex and well camoflauged base and no one would even know they were doing it.

Anyone such as me who has ever driven across country, in places like Nevada, South Eastern California, Arizona, ect, to actually see how utter desolate these places are (you can drive 6 hours and not see a single car, light, or any man made structure.).

So, my opinion on Dulce? Chances are, it probably exists. if it does, that be a good candiate for the search for real live alien flesh.

A lot of our European members don't quite grasp the size of the US, as Europe is fairly densely populated... One must remember that our states are often the size of countries in and of themselves...and we're a pretty spread out people, and think nothing of driving hours to see friends and family. Heck, I drive an hour to work everyday, and then an hour back, and most of it isn't due to traffic....

70% unpopulated huh? I believe it... You really can see it when you fly over the US. No matter how many times I've done it, it's still amazing to see how much of the area (even in cities) is still perfectly wild nature....

Exactly, Gaz.

When I was in Europe, I felt rather clausterphobic. Couldnt drive two miles before you were in a village or town. Thus, building secret bases beyond the view of the public would be an impossible concept in Europe. But not in the US. Flying over it, yup. I remeber how many times I flew across nevada going to and from california, and looked down, and you couldnt even see roads, just barren, uninhabited land.

The Ozzies here, on the other hand, might better understand the concept of invisible bases, for lack of a better term, since geofraphically, they are pretty much in the same boat as us. The Russians would also more than likely understand, given they have Siberia.

When given that picture, the whole concept of a UFO crashing in the desert of Mexico with relatively few witnesses, and secreted off to god knows where, with the public completely oblivious, is not only within the realm of possibility, but very much achievable.

As Sam Kenison used to say..."We have deserts in America....we just don't LIVE in them!"

Early on n my carrer I had trouble helping my european clients understand the scope of the difference in size of the U.S. economy and that of europen countries. The easies way I found to explain it was to relate how during ww2 germany had an economic policy of total war (meaning 100% of the economy was devoted to the war effort) The U.S. however before entering the war had been cautioned by economists that in order to win the U.S. would have to devote as much as 5% of the economy to the war effort. In terms of size it helps if you explain that the size of the U.S. is equal to the entire continent of Europe from england to russia. (though many have trouble believing it)

Did Roswell happen? You bet and it almost died before this story came along. Thirty years ago, Roswell was about to blow away and nobody I knew knew anything about this event. They certainly didn't have "aliens" painted on every street lamp globe. Now Roswell thrives because the tourists come in droves.

New Mexico has been a favorite location for governmental and military experimentation for a very long time and it is still is. Whatever happened was heavily classified, but it was completely human in origin. There is no rational reason to suspect anything else.

Whatever happened was heavily classified, but it was completely human in origin. There is no rational reason to suspect anything else.

Odd then, that the SENIOR Intelligence officer, of one of the world's most secure bases (only atomic bomber wing) wouldn't realize this....

Dozens of eyewitnesses, numerous documents, etc. but they don't count as "rational" reasons?

Ask yourself this logically then... We know the Air Force story is bogus, that is a fact. (as their facts have already been disproven over and over again). Therefore, it is a coverup. What would still be so classified after over 50 years? Do you REALLY believe that a research project would be so concealed for this amount of time? Even the SR-71, one of the most secretive projects since the A-Bomb, was made public about 20 years or so after it's development....

So just where is all this debris? I think it unlikely as the Visitors are quasi-physical ,walking through doors and flying through windows.
You have your best minds studying this wreckage and no one heard a word about it in over 40 years? Unlikely.
All this study...and what do we make our airplanes out of? Aluminum.Some titanium. Nuts and bolts. Not like the Visitors opening doors where there wasn't one before. Any study on that?

As I just mentioned, it took over 20 years for them to even admit to the SR 71...

Roswell's actually been over 50 years... But, it took quite some time to even begin to figure out anything about it..

As for where the debris is...there is a paper trail, coupled with eyewitness testimony, stating the debris was sent to Wright Field. This is a fact, admitted even in the Air Force report (though the origin of the debris is claimed to be a Mogul balloon). Since then, other labs have been set up to handle the objects, but this was where it went first.

Not only is there testimony as to where the debris went, but there is testimony by the very people who WOULD have been involved. You'll see General Trudeau's name all over anything related to Majestic 12. One guy came out (Corso), and this was Trudeau's right hand man pretty much. He details how the debris was farmed out to government contractors, and integrated into existing projects (such as night vision, conductors, circuit boards, etc.) This is not just your average jar head, these are high ranking military officers.

If we're to believe other informants (such as Lazar, etc.) then the craft is made out of materials we don't yet fully understand (but are starting to, such as the materials utilized by our stealth craft, etc.), and the reactor uses an element not naturally occurring on Earth, and we haven't (at least reportedly) been able to synthesize it yet. Not to mention, it's pretty dicey to simply come out now, after all this time, and say, "look what we have and have been hiding from you!". You criticized our current materials for aircraft without even considering that the most advanced aircraft in our inventory is made with still classified materials

walking through doors and flying through windows.

only hinted at in some of the most questionable abduction cases...no other evidence of this in other documentation.

Not like the Visitors opening doors where there wasn't one before. Any study on that?

Actually, near seamless composites have been in use in the spy bizz for years, most notably in golf ball cameras (one of my favorite spy gadgets...look it up sometime if you can find something on it, they're quite clever, first saw mention of it in the CIA entrance exam guide...no longer published, but you may still find a copy at an older local library, loaned my copy to a marine buddy looking to go in, but he never gave it back...the bastard) I'm sure a quick google search would turn up other projects using them as well. This isn't far beyond our current tech.

Just because a caveman finds a crashed helicopter doesn't mean he'll be tooling around in his own soon ya know....

[edit on 10-8-2004 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok

Whatever happened was heavily classified, but it was completely human in origin. There is no rational reason to suspect anything else.

Ask yourself this logically then... We know the Air Force story is bogus, that is a fact. (as their facts have already been disproven over and over again). Therefore, it is a coverup.

I certainly don't doubt that there was a cover-up, but what they were covering was their own posteriers, not alien life-forms, in my opinion.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion....

Personally, my father works on one of the most classified planes around these days (the Raptor), and I just can't imagine any project (other than an ET-related one) being classified for more than 50 years, hehe... No plane, missile, rocket, etc. (especially a balloon project) would be classified for THAT long...so why the bogus report to debunk it?

Originally posted by Gazrok
[M]y father works on...classified planes....

I have composed two responses to your post only to lose both, the last to a lightning strike. I won't tempt fate by trying to reconstruct those responses. I will only ask, "Does your father believe that extra-terrestrials crashed in Roswell in 1947?"

[edit on 04/8/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Gazrok
Hangar 18 was at Wright Field (in OHIO!), not the Roswell base (in New Mexico)... They are two separate entities. Roswell was an Army Air Field (the USAF didn't exist at the time, it was created as part of the Security Act, enacted by Truman later that same month).

Military Intelligence, specifically, Jesse Marcell, was dispatched from the Air Field. There was no "HQ" set up (especially in Ohio!), as it wasn't necessary, the crash sites were in the middle of nowhere. Even the rancher that found the debris (Brazel) didn't discover it right away, nor the second crash site. Some of the debris was loaded up, and taken to Roswell, until the later retrieval team, gathered all of it. Soon after, General Ramey, commander of the base, was directed to enact the coverup, and Marcell then posed with the balloon debris used for the coverup photos and retraction (as the Air Field press officer, the aforementioned Haut, had already released the story to the Roswell paper...I have a copy of this btw...interesting read).

The debris was flown to Wright Field (even the Air Force admits this, in it's Mogul definition...a fact which doesn't make sense, given Wright Field's role, btw...), and supposedly it was taken into Hangar 18 (hence the folklore).

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Gazrok]

Speaking of the guy who found debris in his ranch. Didn't he claim to find some sort of metal that like, regenerated? Like if you bent it, it would go back to normal?

Yes,the metal was as thin as tin foil,yet could not be creased,torn broken or burned.Mac Brazel also said there were small I-Beams with the same characteristics that had weird hyroglyphic symbols ingrained on them.