Islam promotes Terrorism.

www.youtube.com...

A documentary by Iraqi-Norwegian communist Walid Al-Koubaisi

He interviews a lot of influential figures including the leaders of the muslim brotherhood (Ikhwan) in Egypt, Hasan Al-Banna's brother, Tariq Hajjgy, as well as various Arab Islamists, clerics, moderate reformers, leftists, and secularists.

Its in Norwegian with English subtitles and its worth the effort to watch

Al-Kubaisi was born in Baghdad, Iraq. He migrated from the country to Norway as a political refugee in 1981 due to war. He regards himself to be a "secular Muslim".

According to him, the hijab is a political uniform for the militant Islamist movement. He says that if Islamists are successful in making the hijab synonymous with Islam, the Islamists will have achieved a victory in the West which they have not been able to accomplish in Muslim countries.

He believe that the Muslim Brotherhood is the "mother organization" for the world's Islamist political ideology. He says that the Muslim Brotherhood has a plan to conquer Europe by the hijab, high birth rates and democracy; Islamists are exploiting Western democracy to reach their own anti-democratic goals.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Suicide bombing is not a purely religious phenomenon, what about the Japanese Kamikaze or the Black Tigers of the LTTE who were motivated by a socialist and nationalist ideology rather than a religious one. Also interestingly the predominate leadership of the LTTE has be Roman Catholic and they have very really attacked Christian targets.

In fact, I’m not aware of any current religions that actively encourage Jihad and Martyrdom....

Yeah blame that on your ignorance again, Jihad is Islamic concept not one belonging to other religions so that will be why, but the Christian and Jewish faith do have their shear of Martyrs. But by calling the Islamic faith a “Cult” you are only showing us your true colours. You have wrote a “I hate Muslims thread” I regard people who hold such xenophobic views such are your own (and variations of said views) as the lowest of the lowest scum on this earth. I believe it is because of people who hold views such as yours that most of the world’s problems stem such as the Nazi movement, ethnic genocides and even Islamic extremism. It’s all because at some point along the way some idiot has declared that he “hates” another group in society and as such I hate people who hold views like yours as much as I hate the terrorists.

Your response also failed to address my two main arguments, you can only truly attempt to interpret and analyse the Qur’an in its native Arabic text. And secondly that any religious book can be used for evil if desired.

reply to post by kevinunknown

Suicide bombing is not a purely religious phenomenon, what about the Japanese Kamikaze or the Black Tigers of the LTTE who were motivated by a socialist and nationalist ideology rather than a religious one

Can you give me an account of those today? Doubt it, and if you can the number is far less than that for extremists in Islam.

Sure, i'm just spreading nonsense and ignorance, i can make an educated guess and say you have not read a single word of the passages i sourced, or researched their validity.

Thanks for the response (Or slander rather) My point still stands; religion causes good people to do evil things, and Islam is fundamental and unchanged. I'm desperately trying to find some Christian, or Bhuddist suicide bombers, Perhaps some Quakers with TNT strapped to them? Can you find any? NO? Didn't think so.

Do some research, read the manifestos and ideologies of the religiously motivated Islamic cults all over the world, especially in the middle east.

When you finish your research, and you still believe Islam to be peaceful, then come source yuor findings and call me ignorant again

Thanks.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Is that the only talking point you guys can bring up? Deflection!

"But those guys are just as bad! WAAAHHH!!"

Ignoring that Christianity went through the enlightenment and that most christians are about as devout as Homer Simpson..

pewglobal.org...

pewglobal.org...

If Islam isn't extreme or fundamentalist, how come approximately 50% percent of the population in muslim countries want to cut off peoples hands, stone adulterers and kill deserters?

reply to post by babloyi

So you post 3 pages worth of biasedly edited quotes and and lies (perhaps not originally yours, you took them from some biased website), and it is my job to fix it all? Instead, why don't you do research before posting a wall of quotes from an obviously biased website? I gave you one example (from the very first quote you provided, surprise, surprise) to show how you were wrong.

It's not lies, and it's certainly not TWISTING the words, the meaning shines through.

If your going to call me or my source a liar then research the original scripture, show my findings of ideology to be wrong, source it. But please don't claim my ignornace before you know what you're talking abotu

And look who's the Hypocrite? And you sourced only a few sentences - HOW IRONIC.

190: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
191: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
192: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
193: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

I still find your quotes to be awful, and discrimintory towards non-believers. And that is the message i'm spreading here; if you don't like it then go prove me wrong, but don't accuse me of something and do exactly the same to get your point accross.

Now please, if you're willing to discuss the scriptures peacefully, and accurately, then i'm willing to do so - I'm happy to discuss the implications of each passage or command.

Even with removing large bits of text, the message still shine through, the dislike of non-believers or at least the moral superiority implied is just wrong. Disagree with that if you like.

It's getting tiring watching endless ammounts of wimpering fans of the Koran flock here to defend it.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I have done my research for myself, you have clearly got a “I hate Islam” mentality and as such the “slander” is justified.

Last Black Tiger attack.

2009 March 10 - LTTE suicide bomber attacks Milad Festival - Akurassa [Updated] The latest updates on brutal terrorist attack at the national Milad Festival in Sri Lanka , indicates that 10 civilians were killed and at least 35 others , including a government minister were injured. An LTTE suicide bomber attacked the Jumma mosque at Godapitiya, in Akurassa , in the Matara district around 10.30 , this morning (Mar 10). According to the defence sources , the LTTE terrorist has targeted the Islam devotees attending the national Milad-Un-Nabi celebration , held at the mosque. The Milad-un-Nabi , the birthday of the Prophet Mohammed is celebrated as a national festival in Sri Lanka. Meanwhile , hospital sources say Minister Mahinda Wijesekara who was also attending the celebration has suffered injuries, in the explosion. The sources add that another 15 people with injuries have been admitted to the government hospital Matara. The LTTE is a ruthless terrorist outfit fighting for a mono ethnic separate state for Tamils in Sri Lanka since 1983. Lead by its psychopathic chief V. Prabhakaran, the outfit has slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent civilians during its three decades of terror campaign against Sri Lankan citizens. The LTTE has been engaged in a systematic and brutal ethnic cleansing campaign against Muslims and Sinhalese living in the North and Eastern Provinces in its fanatical attempt create an ethnically pure Tamil State in the Island nation

Source

That is Muslims being killed by an organisation with Christian leadership.

Oh and you have yet to address my two points, you should only attempt to interpret the Qur’an in Arabic and any religious book can be used for evil.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


Haha, thanks for the sources.

Again, i don't hear of any Christians protesting free speech or freedom of expression, I don't see MANY Christians active ralleighing the West, promising another 911 etc. I don't see any Christian run states punishing apostasy with death. I don't see many Christians with bombs strapped to them, blowing up other churches or killing civilians, I don't see any Martyrdom or Jihad concept engrained into the core values of Christianity.

I don't think we'll ever see Suicuide-Bhuddist/Quaker/Mormon?

reply to post by kevinunknown


Read your source, i never said there wasn't other forms of terrorism BUT:-

Is there a worldwide presense of these - LTTE suicide bombers? Are they forming cults and written manifestos praising Allah?

Yeah, and of course i hate Islam (especially the extreme passages) because i hate religion, I think it's all nonsense and unfalisfiable claims, but Islam is especially militant.



SAM HARRIS ON ISLAM.

Listen to this if you like, but i'll doubt you'll listen to the arguments or points, your more than happy to attack my character thinking i'm a hate mongerer for no reason whatsoever.

It's not hate mongering, (but i do hate the concept and ideology) it's information spreading, i only asked questions in the OP, you are free to quote the original arabic scriptures, translate them, and show how im SO SO SO wrong.

Thanks.

Originally posted by TheLaughingGod


If Islam isn't extreme or fundamentalist, how come approximately 50% percent of the population in muslim countries want to cut off peoples hands, stone adulterers and kill deserters?

It’s called social construction, that is how they are constricted, it’s how they have been brought up how they have lived for hundreds of years. They want to live by their religious dogma just like us in the west want live by our political ideological dogmas of “freedom”. You can’t rant about democracy and then when more than 50% of the population say they want to live this way, you criticize their decision as being evil just because they wish to live the way they have for hundreds of years according to their religion. We in the west might disagree with it, as I do, I don’t think it is right to go around chopping of people’s hands. But if that is was they want, if they want to live under Sharia law then we in the west should respect their decision.

reply to post by kevinunknown

They want to live by their religious dogma just like us in the west want live by our political ideological dogmas of “freedom”

Please - don't compare free democratic society to religious dogma. Thanks.

Secular society and free democratic congress has done more for emancipation of minority social groups or opnions including women, homosexuals and ethnic minorities than any non-sensical religious dogma has.

Theocratic states in the Middle East are STILL stoning their women, and punishing apostasy with death.

And you dare to compare socialism with dogma. I KNOW you're talking nonsense now. Please carry on this amazing display of ignorance, i'm really interested to see how you can further destroy the age of enlightenment.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


No what I am saying is that we should respect their decision. It is up to them to decide how they want to live and if you value freedoms then you should value that right to chose how to live. Even if you disagree or cannot understand the choice, you should respect it.

I am not talking nonsense, you know that, you just disagree with me and you’re never going to agree with me as this is a matter of opinion. You basically hate all religion and I do not, therefore we must agree to disagree, amicably if you’re capable of that.

reply to post by kevinunknown


I don't MIND people immigrating to my country, I'm more than happy to help those who've been tyrranised by their foreign goverments - but when their "culture" causes them to form radical groups.....NO! (and i know it's not ALL of them)

Or try to impose "Libel Laws" on my society, i will intervene acting by on secular motive.

I don't like the faith schools that teach against evolution. Even catholic schools have started to wise up, that teaching children against evidence is not right.

Where's my problems with Bhuddists, Jews and Christianity in England? Where? I don't have any, because they're not trying to destroy and change our great society.

We've given then Mosquees, we've given them faith schools and they STILL want to oppose our legislation.

Statistically speaking, many Immigrants from Middle East countries rely on our benefits, they immigrate here, and depentantly so, take our money and complain about our nation that has open-arms.

Feel free to defend them.

Anyone who thinks i hate invidual Muslims is a fool, i have concerns with Islamic ideology, and what it's "culture" is doing to our society.

A lot of people don't know that they travel from Islamic run states, where stoning people is still ripe as a punishment, women are not allowed in Law courts and turning against the faith is punishable by death.

Good lord....your dodgery makes my head hurt....

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
It's not lies, and it's certainly not TWISTING the words, the meaning shines through.

If your going to call me or my source a liar then research the original scripture, show my findings of ideology to be wrong, source it. But please don't claim my ignornace before you know what you're talking abotu

And look who's the Hypocrite? And you sourced only a few sentences - HOW IRONIC.

So it's okay if you quote lies as long as the meaning shines through? What exactly are you getting at? Your source was purposefully quoted to be showing a LIE. I showed you plainly and clearly, yet you ignored that. How am I a hypocrite? What on earth are you talking about? Are you okay? Of course I only quoted a few sentences, I was responding to the same sentences you quoted from that false website. You want me to quote the entire Quran here in ATS? I certainly know what you are talking about. Do you?

I mean....

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
my source...a liar ... my findings... wrong,... my ignornace.. that is the message i'm spreading here

So it is not lying about what you say, it's not twisting your words, as long as the meaning shines through? Because it certainly does!

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I still find your quotes to be awful, and discrimintory towards non-believers. And that is the message i'm spreading here; if you don't like it then go prove me wrong, but don't accuse me of something and do exactly the same to get your point accross.

So... it is "discriminatory" against non-believers to allow muslims to fight when they're fought against? You must have a very interesting dictionary.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Now please, if you're willing to discuss the scriptures peacefully, and accurately, then i'm willing to do so - I'm happy to discuss the implications of each passage or command.

So then do so. That is how I started out. You posted a distorted passage, I quoted the complete thing. Discuss!

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
It's getting tiring watching endless ammounts of butthurt fans of the Koran flock here to defend it.

Hahahahhaha....butthurt? Hardly. More like weirded out by this stranger person who's declared war on a windmill, and claims that it is actually the hordes of islam come to eat us all...it's funny to watch for a bit, but it gets old fairly quickly, and the windmill is getting damaged. It seems to me you are certainly not interested in peaceful discussion of religion, heck, you've labelled yourself an anti-theist.

Unfortunately, some people are very dense and blind to what is obvious.
I could post and give thousands of instances of Terrorism from other religions, and for that matter non-religious based terrorism, and it wouldn’t be enough for ignorant narrow minded people who aught to get help for their obsession rather than continuing with their divisive hatred.

Hindu terrorist in India assault Muslims and Christians all the time but one rarely hears of it.

Buddhist and Hindu terrorism in Burma and Sri-Linka occur and you rarely hear of it, and among that terrorism is SUICIDE BOMBERS!
What people avoid is that terrorism mostly is brought about by political strife, no matter what the religion or nationality of those involved in it.
Also one must consider that the MSM in the US is primarily Jewish run and being strong supporters of Israel they will concentrate on ONLY MUSLIM terrorism.


Indian Buddhist
www.rightsidenews.com...

BUDDHIST TERRORISM
Asahara, led a cult, Aum Shinrikyo, mostly Buddhist Christian and Hindu inspired led a group put nerve gas in a subway in Japan. He is on death row today.

www.amazon.com...

www.alternet.org...

The primary example in the 20th and 21st century is in Sri Lanka, where Sinhala Buddhist groups have committed and encouraged violence against local Christians and Tamils."

motherjones.com...


HINDU TERRORISM:
In Sri Linka there has been a civil war for years where terrorism and suicide bombings have been done by HINDUS in their struggle for independence.

Most of the people in Sri Linka, those that oppress the Hindus are BUDDHIST who many accuse of state terrorism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Tamil Tigers have staged two thirds of all the suicide bombings in the world. Tamil Tigers are driven by ethnonationalism. Islamist groups are driven by religious ideology. When I say religious ideology, it is not the Koran, it is a political ideology fashioned by misinterpreting, misrepresenting and corrupting the religious text. The Prophet was a very compassionate leader, unlike Usama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri and the likes.

www.pbs.org...

Christian and Jewish terrorism:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

jewishterrorism.blogspot.com...

www.rense.com...

www.tentmaker.org...

www.tektonics.org...

www.atheistrev.com...

This OP is now exposed as an uninformed hater who refuses to take the time to do simple research.

No he merely produces superficial narrow minded demagoguery that a junior high school student can refute.

DENY IGNORANCE!

reply to post by inforeal


nice try.

I'm not a hater, i'm just concerned, concerned with Islamic scripture, it's not just a political thing.

You wouldn't be interested in Sam Harris's words but other readers will.



I assure everyone in this thread that i am not a) a racist b) a xenophobe 3) bigot

I want the same as most, peace amongst ALL of our species.

Again, nice try inforeal.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


My friend, I have written essays on Sam Harris. I know him well and the other neo-atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens.

Actually, I have a little respect for Harris since he at least denounces ALL RELIGIONS he just doesn’t focus on Islam.

In fact, I myself don’t support fundamentalist religion, including fundamentalist or literalist Islam, but I reject ALL religion that is sectarian and bigoted towards others, I don’t single out just Islamic literalism.

Believe it or not being from this tradition, I have debated religious bigots and fundamentalist in Islam before you were likely born, as well as other religious fanatics from other religions.

We have to try to understand literalist religions and explain to them intelligently that religious scripture often is allegorical and shouldn’t be taken out of context and therefore misunderstood.

It’s nothing wrong with you denouncing so-called Muslims who do murder and terrorism in the name of their religion, we all agree on that, but we don’t have to put almost 1 and a half billion people in the same boat with the few terrorist by suggesting that the religion teaches them to commit mass murder.

[You also have a right to reject or criticize Islam or whatever, but when you seem ONLY focused on Islamic terrorism and blind to other religious terrorism then one has to suspect your motives.
I can respect and debate Harris becasue of this and not call him a bigot towards Islam though he may be accused of being anti-religion.]

We know that all fundamentalist religions are subject to this kind of folly; look at the anti-abortionist Christian fundamentalist who murder doctors who do abortions.
Do you denounce them?

I could say that Christianity caused the murder of abortion doctors because they think there are versus in the Bible that say indirectly: Kill abortion doctors and save human life.

But I understand that 99.9 percent of Christians won’t go around killing abortion doctors, therefore I cant blame Christianity for Christian terrorists.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

i think it's like christianity. some muslims disagree with wahhabism for example, which is fundamental in nature. some are more mystical, combining more than one school of thought, such as sikhism. this guy is a sikh (watch it with speakers on

Sikhism is a completely different religion to Islam.
Their respective core values and beliefs have absolutely nothing in common whatsoever
en.wikipedia.org...

Have you ever spoken to a Sikh of Indian Punjabi origin about Pakistani Muslims or vice versa?

I can understand the point you were trying to make but the example you have provided displays a complete lack of basic knowledge about the subject and as such lends little credebility to your arguements.

reply to post by inforeal

If you are so ludicrously convinced that Muslims have no more propensity to violence that Bhuddists - and that the Koran is a book of love and peace - then take up this guys challenge!

The Challenge - I receive many emails from angry Muslims, who sometimes beg me, and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.

If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, disprove my charges against Muhammad logically. Not only will I remove the site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay $50,000 U.S. dollars to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad.

I accuse Muhammad of being:

a narcissist a misogynist a rapist a pedophile
a lecher a torturer a mass murderer a cult leader
an assassin a terrorist a madman a looter


I have debated with many Muslims. Their defense of Islam can be summarized in two categories:
a- Denial of the authenticity of Islamic sources that report the stories of crimes of Muhammad (example: debate with Edip Yukssel, a leader of the Submitters)

b- Moral relativism and situational ethics, e.g., “In those days, pedophilia, assassination, rape, raid, pillage, massacre and lying, were common practices, so Muhammad is innocent because he did what everyone else was doing.”


Muslims even go as far as to question the legitimacy of the Golden Rule to claim I do not have any basis to condemn Muhammad. In other words, who can say what is good and what is evil? That is up to the messenger of God to decide. (Example: debate with Yamin Zakaria) These are the main two arguments that Muslims present in defense of Islam. Any rational person can see they are logical fallacies. These charges are irrefutable. You simply can’t disprove them because they are reported in Islamic sources and as such they are as good as confession. You can’t acquit a criminal after he has confessed, unless you plead insanity, which is my point. www.faithfreedom.org...

How about this

There are Muslim Brotherhood/ Jamat-e-Islami /Maududi-ist Ummah type political movements they tend to be lead by educated men who use a violent or extremist interpretation of the koran to control their followers

And the goal of all this is to put these leaders at the top of some kind of Islamic based control system

and this is something we should all be worried about this

If a non-believer finds out about these violent or extremist interpretation of the koran they will ask questions about this - naturally

When the “light side” muslims see these interpretations used by the non-believer they are horrified that their “kittens and rainbows” version of the koran is seen this way and so try to “correct” the views of the non-believer

The non-believer is puzzled by this; after all he’s just got these koran verses from legitimate Islamic sites – wtf going on the non-believer thinks are they all in on it?

And confusion reigns supreme