Richard Dolan “The UFO Cover-Up in 10 minutes”.

Perhaps interesting for some here, this is a video from Richard Dolan called “The UFO Cover-Up in 10 minutes”.
It is short of course, but I found it nevertheless interesting to hear him speak about some of the high points of the on-going UFO cover-up.

RichardMDolan | 27 januari 2011

Richard Dolan explains some of the high points of the on-going UFO cover-up, but it's not your average lecture.

reply to post by spacevisitor


Spacevisitor, great post my friend and I only wish I could flag this thread more than once - Richard Dolan certainly makes some very good points about the inadequacies of Project Bluebook and, as I'm sure you know already, many of their UFO evaluations were spurious, contrived or just plain ridiculous (link) - I also thought he raised some very important issues about the complete lack of objectivity (and active agenda) of the Condon report - what a complete joke that was.

"Our study would be conducted exclusively by "Non Believers". The trick would be, I think, to describe the project so that to the public it would appear totally objective study.
Conclusion...There is no secrecy and no evidence that such objects even exist."

Memorandum from Robert Low (before the report was started) - Project Administrator CONDON Report to Colorado University V.P. Thurston Marshall

link

Cheers.

I agree, those early studies have been shown over and over to have been designed from the start to produce the results the government wanted. But maybe not to hide aliens or ufo's. Perhaps it was nothing more than the government's public way of trying to prevent mass panic (during those times Americans were gullible and scared creatures, which startle very easily). And they seemed to have had that affect. The subject calmed down and people started to settle down....and eventually this subject was relegated to the fringe area, where no government control or cover-ups are really necessary due to the shear ignorance actions of the fringe.

So, we know that the public investigations were fluff. But we also know that the military did have legitimate interest in the UFO phenom, even if it only represented secret enemy aircraft concerns (cold war fears and whatnot). So I wonder what they really found?

I for one think they didn't find crap. For one, they couldn't hide it (the government can't hide anything important...never have, never will).....I bet the average ATS'er around here knows more about the alien/ufo subject than any current government agent or office. In fact, if I know the government (and I do), even the secret studies I suspect are probably filed away and forgotten. The government is run and organized by the least intelligent people on the planet. Seriously.

Project Blue Book end 1970
Investigated 12618
solved 11917
701 unidentified

The Condon Committee Report 1969
59 Cases
43 Solved
16 unidentified


Ok, I get Richard Dolan, but then I don't
why complain, when there is a list of the 701 Blue Book Cases and the 16 Condon Cases
That remain unidentified?

Do we need more?
I just base my UFO probability off of 1 "The Belgian Wave"
and that happened after those reports.

and now we are 41 years past the end of those reports??

This is the stuff that is interesting,

Maybe Richard Dolan next book should be about those 700+ cases.
I would read it for sure.

and then add 41 more years of good cases and I bet there will be over a 1000

I don't think Dolan should complain, but see it as inviting to research 700 unidentified cases.


flagged and starred

I saw this yesterday and thought it was interesting. Kinda like a little UFO commercial," Hey remember we are here."
When did he tape this vid? Anyone know? Just wondered if was something old or something new he has just put out there??

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I for one think they didn't find crap. For one, they couldn't hide it (the government can't hide anything important...never have, never will)...

Have you ever read Dolan's book?

I posted a paragraph from it in this thread (to which you posted in) explaining how the U.S. Government managed to spend over 2 billion dollars on the Manhattan Project without a single member of Congress ever being aware of it.

There's also a good pdf file briefly covering horizontally compartmentalized 'Special Access Programmes' by NASA's Bernard Haisch - I downloaded the file but it's since been deleted, here's some of its content including articles from 'Jane’s International Defence Review'

Obviously no answer can be expected here, but a
brief summary will be given of the elaborate official
security structure that does exist for extremely
sensitive and highly secret programs which could in
principle be made to accommodate a UFO-related
program of some sort having a very long time-scale
legacy

• In 1997 there were about 150 DoD approved Special Access Programs.

• Unacknowledged SAP is a core secret.

• Arrangements known as “carve-outs” remove black programs from defense
wide security and contract-oversight.

• Unacknowledged Waived SAPs can be completely hidden from outside civilian oversight

A more substantial limitation on oversight is that some unacknowledged SAPs are not reported
to the full committees. At the Secretary of Defense's discretion, the reporting requirements may
be waived. In this case, only eight individuals - the chair and ranking minority member of each
of the four defense committees, the House National Security Committee, the Senate Armed
Services Committee, and the defense subcommittees of the House and Senate Appropriations
committees - are notified of the decision. According to the 1997 Senate Commission,
this notification may be only oral. These "waived SAPs" are the blackest of black programs.
How many of the SAPs are unacknowledged, and how many are waived, is a question which
only a few people can answer: eight members of Congress, the members of SAPOC (including
The Deputy Secretary of Defense), and the Secretary of Defense.

(From Sweetman article in Jane’s International Defence Review

And

• A “deep black” SAP is frequently based in a compartmenalized area or facility of a
civilian government contractor (e.g. TRW, Lockheed Martin) because this actually
provides more control and flexibility than a government facility.

• The security fraction of the total budget for a “deep black” SAP can approach 50%

• Security may go beyond passive measures to active disinformation

• Programs may be so tightly compartmentalized that even a director (general,
admiral) may not be accessed to all programs within his area of responsibility

Intentional cover is supported by two mechanisms, inherent in the structure of unacknowledged SAPs,
that result in the dissemination of plausible but false data, or disinformation. Confronted with the
unauthorized use of a program name or a specific question, an 'accessed' individual may deny all
knowledge of a program - as he should, because its existence is a core secret, and a mere
"no comment" is tantamount to confirmation. The questioner - who may not be aware that an
Accessed individual must respond with a denial - will believe that denial and spread it further.
Also, people may honestly believe that there are no black programs in their area of responsibility.
For example, Gen. George Sylvester, commander of Aeronautical Systems Division in 1977, was
not 'accessed' into the ASD-managed Have Blue stealth program, even though he was nominally
responsible for all USAF aircraft programs. Had he been asked whether Have Blue existed, he
could have candidly and honestly denied it. Presented with a wall of denial, and with no way to tell
the difference between deliberate and fortuitous disinformation, most of the media has abandoned
any serious attempts to investigate classified programs.

(From Sweetman article in Jane’s International Defence Review)

References:

“In Search of the Pentagon’s Billion Dollar Hidden Budgets: How the US Keeps Its R&D Spending Under Wraps”,
Bill Sweetman, Janes International Defence Reporter, 5 Jan 2000

“Report of the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy: 1997”
Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Senate Document 105-2.

Easynow also posted a pretty fascinating interview in this thread about private corporations researching the UFO subject for military applications:

Originally posted by easynow

I believe the PTB were worried he would be the one to make the scientific community finally come to their senses and accept the ufo subject as something to be reckoned. they of course couldn't let that happen because behind the scenes the military industrial complex was researching and studying ufo's for military applications.


McDonnell Douglas studied UFOs in the 1960s

Originally posted by karl 12

Have you ever read Dolan's book?

Yeah, I like his books.

I posted a paragraph from it in this thread (to which you posted in) explaining how the U.S. Government managed to spend over 2 billion dollars on the Manhattan Project without a single member of Congress ever being aware of it.

The Manhattan project was SO SECRET that our enemies had the entire thing infiltrated by their spy network, lol. A lot of people that want the whole UFO thing to be true point to the Manhattan project as proof that things can be done in secret. But truth be told, it was far from secret. Had it been Aliens of UFO's other than some new weapons system I bet it would have been "uncorked" publicly real easy. And members of congress did know that there was a new weapons system being developed (not all, but a select few due to it happening in their state) but they didn't know anything else, nor did they pursue it.

There's also a good pdf file briefly covering horizontally compartmentalized 'Special Access Programmes' by NASA's Bernard Haisch - I downloaded the file but it's since been deleted, here's some of its content including articles from 'Jane’s International Defence Review'

I have been a part of a couple "special access programmes" personally (nothing really exciting though). While they were all compartmentalized to protect the security of the whole project.....it was a joke. People spoke openly between groups even from different companies. I was actually startled by the openness on one project. Then on another project I was surprised to see how close to the ruls they stuck too, and was impressed with their security. But on no project did I ever not know pieces of the big picture that didn't let me fill in the blanks so to speak. How this process could contain a secret such as reverse engineering UFO's is beyond my comprehension.


I realize that there are a lot of secret programs that can be kept from the public. But that is because they are pretty mundane to the people working in them, so they don't really care that they are working on something secret. But aliens/ufos......I can't fathom the thousands of people that would be involved in that type of program being able to keep it secret, especially considering the EXTENSIVE contractor support they would require (since most places, even places like Boeing, raytheon, etc, do much of anything themselves anymore)

Originally posted by mysteryskeptic
Maybe Richard Dolan next book should be about those 700+ cases.
I would read it for sure.

What do you think "UFO's and the National Security State" vol. I is all about?

Read it, for sure....


Thanks for the post and the link, spacevisitor....always dig Richard's work...

Originally posted by karl 12
Richard Dolan certainly makes some very good points about the inadequacies of Project Bluebook and, as I'm sure you know already, many of their UFO evaluations were spurious, contrived or just plain ridiculous

Hi karl 12, you are absolutely right, they were done in my opinion for one purpose only, to debunk the phenomenon publicly as much as possible, and they obviously succeeded.

Thanks for that interesting link
Here is one important remark from it.

Originally posted by karl 12

* Condon Did Not Investigate Cases

* Use of ridicule

Dr. Condon stated that there should be no attack on the integrity of persons having different opinions on UFOs.

Yet, he ridiculed UFO witnesses, well-informed scientists on the subject, and NICAP.

What you say there is correct, therefore he was in my opinion lying thru his teeth there.

I know by now that attacking on the integrity of persons and ridicule them as much as possible is one of their best and most effective weapons they have used all the time to keep it under wrap, and it still works even today extremely well.

Originally posted by Toxicsurf

Originally posted by mysteryskeptic
Maybe Richard Dolan next book should be about those 700+ cases.
I would read it for sure.

What do you think "UFO's and the National Security State" vol. I is all about?

Read it, for sure....


Thanks for the post and the link, spacevisitor....always dig Richard's work...

edit on 30-1-2011 by Toxicsurf because: (no reason given)

Thank you for the heads up, i'm going to get vol 1 and 2

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
So, we know that the public investigations were fluff.

I agree, the only purpose behind those public investigations was to debunk the phenomenon publicly as much as possible, which they did.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
But we also know that the military did have legitimate interest in the UFO phenom,

Not only that they did have legitimate interest in the UFO phenomenon, they still do.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
even if it only represented secret enemy aircraft concerns (cold war fears and whatnot).

I suppose you also know that the UFO phenomenon goes much further back in time then the start of the cold war.

But even if you do not believe that, don’t you think that if that UFO phenomenon only represented secret “earthly” enemy aircraft with the capabilities as described by the US military, the outcome of that cold war or whatever war would have been turned out without the shadow of a doubt in a total defeat of the US.

And don’t you think that when a country or nation such as the USSR back then or whatever other country would have possess such extremely advanced aircrafts, they would have taken over the whole world in the mean time?

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
So I wonder what they really found?

It’s obvious to me, that because the above did not happened, they found out that it weren’t secret “earthly” enemy aircraft.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I for one think they didn't find crap. For one, they couldn't hide it (the government can't hide anything important...never have, never will).....

I for one know by now, that they found out that we are definitely not alone in this universe, and that we have to deal here with very advanced en intelligent beings which are clearly not from this Earth.

And that alone is proof for me that they can hide it (the government can hide anything important...always have, always wanted to)...

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I bet the average ATS'er around here knows more about the alien/ufo subject than any current government agent or office.

Don’t put too much money on that bet.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
In fact, if I know the government (and I do), even the secret studies I suspect are probably filed away and forgotten.

The government is run and organized by the least intelligent people on the planet. Seriously.

Just curious, but because you say that you know the government so well, you know that so shore because you did work there yourself or perhaps even still work there?

Well to all of you I recommend reading Dolan's book. I knew I recognized that name from somewhere. Anyway he does an incredible job of following and analyzing the coverup from 1940 on with a highlight on the National Security state. the book is called UFOs and the National Security State:The cover-up. Damn good author if you ask me. not much speculation here just facts.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts


Ignorethefacts, thanks for the reply and you may well have worked in part on a couple of 'not so exciting' acknowledged SAC programmes and not heard of anything - couldn't that work both ways and the very fact that you've never heard anything show how potentialy secure these unacknowledged black programmes actualy are?

It's estimated here that the black budget for the US Department of Defense in 2009 was around $50 billion - if Bill Sweetman's articles in 'Jane’s International Defence Review' are to be believed then the security fraction of the total budget for these “deep black” SAPs can approach 50%.

There's also a very interesting PDF file below which states engaged activity in 'disinformation' and elaborate cover stories 'in order to protect the integrity of the program from individuals who do not have a need to know' - perhaps you were just one of these individuals and you're just as clueless as the rest of us when it comes to a full working understanding of the security protocols involved in these unacknowledged black programmes.

Program Cover stories. (UNACKNOWLEDGED Proqram.). Cover
stories may be established for unacknowledged programs in order to
protect the integrity of the program from individuals who do not
have a need to know. Cover stories must be believable and cannot
reveal any information regarding the true nature of the contract.
Cover stories for Special Access Proqrams must have the approval of
the PSO prior to dissemination.

PDF File

As for the Bluebook and Condon reports just covering up 'secret military activity' can you explain how you've arrived at this conclusion?

If one goes through the case files, there are quite a number of extremely perplexing incidents being described and some of the reported flight characteristics are such that we cannot even attain them today - some of the object descriptions also sound very strange indeed and a good example is the Portage County incident from 1966 (Blue Book Case Number 10073), another is the Minot AFB B-52 UFO Incident from 1968 (Blue Book Case Number 12548) - can you elaborate on why you think these and all the other cases involve U.S. military craft?

reply to post by spacevisitor


Spacevisitor, you're not wrong about the Condon report mate and even when it comes to the true number of Project Bluebook 'actual unknowns' it looks like we're not being told the whole story - there's a very interesting statement made below in a document by USAF General Carroll Bolender - it states that UFO reports which could affect national security "were not part of the Blue Book system" - if they weren't part of the Bluebook system then what system were they a part of?

"Moreover,reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force manual 55-11,and are not part of the Blue Book system."

PDF Document

There's also this interesting article on Blue Book Special Report 14 describing how an extra 1000 unexplained 'hot incident' reports went conveniently missing:

It is also worthy of noting that Air Force Blue Book recorded 2,344 sightings in the 1947 through 1952 time period. Special Report Number 14 said that the Air Force recorded 3,201 reports. This is nearly one thousand more reports than listed by Blue Book. Where did the extra reports come from? Many suspect that these reports were collected by the 4602 AISS and that only reports which had more mundane explanations ever reached Blue Book.

link

Perhaps the special unit of the '4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron' had something to do with it - I don't know if you've seen it but NICAP's Francis Ridge makes some very interesting comments about them in this article.

Cheers.

Originally posted by karl 12
when it comes to the true number of Project Bluebook 'actual unknowns' it looks like we're not being told the whole story –

You are so right there my friend, we we're indeed not being told the whole story and that happens continuously until today and I expect personally still for a very, very long time, if ever.

Originally posted by karl 12
there's a very interesting statement made below in a document by USAF General Carroll Bolender - it states that UFO reports which could affect national security "were not part of the Blue Book system" - if they weren't part of the Bluebook system then what system were they a part of?

"Moreover,reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force manual 55-11,and are not part of the Blue Book system."

PDF Document

Very good find, and what USAF General Carroll Bolender said there is supported by Dr. James E. McDonald and in a way also by Allen Hynek.

McDonald was particularly disturbed that his friend, astronomer J. Allen Hynek, had not alerted the scientific community to the fact that Project Blue Book was withholding some of the most anomalous and compelling UFO reports.

Hynek argued that if he had exposed this, the Air Force would have dumped him as Blue Book’s consultant; Hynek was the only scientist formally studying UFOs for the government.

www.paradigmresearchgroup.org...

Here are some other revealing sayings from Hynek.

J. Allen Hynek on Project Blue Book
Excerpt from the book, "The UFO Experience - A Scientific Inquiry", by J. Allen Hynek

Summary: The popular impression through the years was that Blue Book was a full-fledged, serious operation.
The public perhaps envisioned a spacious, well-staffed office with rows of file cabinets, a computer terminal for querying the UFO data bank, and groups of scientists quietly studying reports, attended by a staff of assistants.
The actual situation was unfortunately the opposite.

Blue Book was a "cover-up" to the extent that the assigned problem was glossed over for one reason or another.
In my many years association with Blue Book, I do not recall ever one serious discussion of methodology, of improving the process of data gathering or of techniques of comprehensive interrogation of witnesses.

Were I the captain of a debating team whose job it is, of course, to marshall the facts favorable to his side and studiously to avoid the other's, I could defend either side of the argument.
At no time, however did I encounter any evidence that could be presented as valid proof that Blue Book was indeed a cover-up operation.
However, many indications, bits of information, and scraps of conversation could be force-fitted into a yes for the cover-up thesis.
Thus, for instance, one time when I inquired into the specifics of a certain case, I was told by the Pentagon's chief scientist that he had been advised by those at a much higher level to tell me not to pursue the matter further.

One can make of that what one will.

www.ufoevidence.org...

I will take a look to the information of your other link about those 1000 unexplained 'hot incident' reports went conveniently missing: later.

Thanks again

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I for one think they didn't find crap. For one, they couldn't hide it (the government can't hide anything important...never have, never will).....I bet the average ATS'er around here knows more about the alien/ufo subject than any current government agent or office.

Precisely. They haven't completely hidden it all, hence this forum. That's why there have been whistleblowing, leaked and declassified documents etc.

“You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.” ~ Abraham Lincoln

karl 12, SpaceVisitor, myself and many others aren't fooled even if, "some of the people," are. We are aware that there is more to this topic than you seem to want the world to believe. I can't help getting this nagging doubt about whether you truly believe everything you post. I could be wrong, but....

Richard Dolan is a slobberer, I read one of his extrapolations about the
black triangles, I dont know what to say OMG.

Originally posted by Pimander
That's why there have been whistleblowing, leaked and declassified documents etc.

Well, there's certainly been quite a number of declassified documents mate - some of them describing very peculiar objects indeed - Richard Dolan lists a few below but there are plenty more out there.


Twelve Government Documents That Take UFOs Seriously

Originally posted by spacevisitor

J. Allen Hynek on Project Blue Book

..Thus, for instance, one time when I inquired into the specifics of a certain case, I was told by the Pentagon's chief scientist that he had been advised by those at a much higher level to tell me not to pursue the matter further.

One can make of that what one will.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Hey bud, I enjoyed reading that and it just about sums it up when the 'chief scientist' of a supposedly objective government investigation is denied access (and gets ordered not to pursue) the subject matter - it also looks like Dr James E. Mcdonald was being a bit of a nuisance..

"I recall that at the time Dr. McDonald was regarded by Blue Book personnel as an outstanding nuisance. This was partly because he was interested in a scientific study of the “true” UFOs (those that completely defied simple natural explanation) and partly because he was so outspoken."

Dr J. Allen Hynek

Link

..and I don't think Dr Hynek was too impressed by Project Bluebook's new boss either (whose mindset does sound somewhat familiar):

He held Quintanilla in especially low regard: "Quintanilla's method was simple: disregard any evidence that was counter to his hypothesis." Hynek wrote that during Air Force Major Hector Quintanilla's tenure as Blue Book's director, "the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast.”

Hynek reported that Sergeant David Moody, one of Quintanilla’s subordinates, “epitomized the conviction-before-trial method. Anything that he didn’t understand or didn’t like was immediately put into the psychological category, which meant ‘crackpot’.”

link

Cheers.

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by Pimander
That's why there have been whistleblowing, leaked and declassified documents etc.

Well, there's certainly been quite a number of declassified documents mate - some of them describing very peculiar objects indeed - Richard Dolan lists a few below but there are plenty more out there.

Twelve Government Documents That Take UFOs Seriously

Thanks for this link and the one in your last post buddy.
After reading most of it in your link above, which is very interesting indeed, I checked out some of his other articles and fond this one, “UFOs are Real. So Now What?”

keyholepublishing.com...

Richard stated in this article the following quite remarkable points.
I post at the same time my personal views and opinions about them.

That UFOs are real.

That’s of which I am convinced of.

That some them are alien.

That’s of which I am convinced of.

That some of them are classified military projects.

That’s of which I am convinced of.

That there is an extreme and extensive secrecy involved from our military but apparently also from the aliens themselves.

The first part is already clear to me, the second part seems very logic to me.

The intentions of these "aliens" are still not definitively known.

I agree.

They may be our space brothers, or we may be in their cookbook, or they may simply like the water here.

I think that we have to deal at least with the first two options here, in the sense that some are benevolent to us for some reason or even some special connection we have with them, but not all.