Zeitgeist: Moving Forward - Officially Released Online

reply to post by christina-66


Peter Joseph? Like they always say, "Follow the money." His organization is multifaceted and operates on the fringe. When you order his DVD's they come anonymously. You might get a double ship or a triple ship from various regions. So the organization is a little bit mist-covered.

Al Jones. Just think of him as an alarm clock. You have to hit the snooze bar now and then. He's taken bombast to a new level. That poor ego of his. He's been saying the same thing for almost twenty years and making a good living in the process.

I like things that make you think. Alex does it in a brain numbing way. You have to turn off the alarm to hear the radio. Nobody listens to an alarm clock all day.

Nobody sane anyway.

As far that interview. If is the one I saw sometime last year, it made me look again at Zeitgeist.

I suppose if Alex Jones is the alarm clock. Zeitgeist (Time Ghost?) could be the coffee. Stop at two cups, the third will make you give you the shakes.

The point is to wake up and get moving.

Again, Joy to you friend.

reply to post by mc_squared

Wow! S & F for you, mate.

A conspiracy on a Conspiracy website.

Very sad this thread is not on the Home page. For a site that claims to deny ignorance, what a disappointing gesture it is to not have THIS video front and center. Pro Videos? Nope, not there.

Those who comment without having viewed this film, IMHO, should be secured to a chair, and forced to watch it, similar to how Alex in A Clockwork Orange was made to watch pornography, violence, and violent pornography...

reply to post by CRASHPROJECT


I have watched it and the more I ponder the conclusion of the film the more I'm equating it to marxism. Is it just me?

I'm wondering if I should still major in Economics in light of the information presented in this film... What do you think?

reply to post by mc_squared


You’re right, I have noticed that the so-called conspiracy community largely has become a group of “anti-communist” with no real practical ideas [just selling books and making money off their theories] that is being slowly taken over by Glenn Beck types such as Alex Jones.

BTW this film is tremendously informative and inspiring but will be hard to sell to a mainstream audience because of just what you say.

People will label it “communism” and protect their so-called “free society” and doing things the capitalist way despite as the film spoke that capitalism as it is will inevitably destroy the world.

I think the only hope is too slowly spread ideas like in this film and other humanitarian philosophies, there are many others, and they should form alliances then the ideas of what is in this film can spread exponentially

reply to post by christina-66

What do you equate the first 2/3 to?

Marxism? Really? I think our collective mindset may be a little different than that of the folks of the 1890s. No? Actually, it probably hasn't changed all that much.

I think it is a work of art, first and foremost. I also think that you cannot have that beginning, w/out that ending. The middle holds the whole thing together, IMHO.

great video
makes a ton of sense
everyone should have to be made to watch this
thanks for posting

First of all, great movie. But there are some major flaws in it's proposed solutions that make them unworkable.

The biggest flaw that was evident to me was in this idea of "need". The movie supposes that we all define this concept the same, or at least that we will come to a mutual compromise on what it is. Who is to define for all what is a "need"? What happens when there are (and there will be) conflicting thoughts on this topic. Who is to allow an exterior authority to define what is a need and what is a want? A computer program? That is an absurdity. A program is only the expression of it's designer. There are people behind those programs. Someone is making decisions based on an idea of how the program calculations should run.

At it's most basic core, all humans really need is food, water, shelter, and perhaps companionship. Everything thereafter is a want. So, this movie suggests (indirectly) that we all agree to have an external authority determine what wants we are allowed. If you want more than what has been allotted to you then there is a problem.

But how selfish of someone to want more than someone else, right? That logic is over simplistic. Let's think this through with an example:

Let say we are all living in harmony in this Venus project world. Then, I have an idea that I think *might* improve the lives of us Venusian Project inhabitants. The only problem is that it will require me to consume 1000 times more resources than is allotted to me for my research. I think it is justified, and others do not, but who actually decides? My idea is a risk. It might not work. Whoever is deciding is in control of my destiny. What happens to me if I don't agree with the decision? Some authority will have to be in control of decisions on where resources should be allocated. As long as l am that authority I guess there is no problem, eh?

There is also an assumption in this movie that there will be a consensus in the science behind these cities. HA! There is as much consensus in science as there is in religion! Who's science will you use to determine what the resource allocations should be?

In our current (and heavily flawed) system, I can make most decisions for the use of my resources for myself. If I need more resources, I work harder, or convince others that their resources are good to be used for my goals. I can take risks that may turn out good for me, or not.

I guess in summary I am saying that the Venus Project would absolutely work - as long as the entire world agreed on what is right vs. wrong, and what is the best way to live. Simple, right?

another note- how can anyone release this movie for free on release with the production quality of Hollywood, without Government or Zionist backing. (note- Zionists only pretend to be Jews!!! they are totally against Jewish Mysticism and EVERY OTHER indiginous culture with traditions pertaining to spiritual truths through their art and stories/myths!!)

another note- they debunk eugenics while promoting it in the next segment with a comment "NO, I would not forgive a criminal"- due to the scientific warm up at the beginning of the fiml- we can now buy into the comment!!!!
Forgiveness is intrinsic to the development of the human condition, otherwise one is left with a chip on the shoulder and someone to blame- which ironically is HATE PROVOKING, thereby locking in another cycle of self loathing and class separation between the race of man.

another note- the film promotes a hunter-gatherer repetition of todays society- gathering for the self only!!! The Ancients did this together and for all man they were in contact with- hence our comparitively RICH culture before the decimation of it by the remnants of the Roman rulers that still rule our society via materialism and the advent of intrest on money lending. It is just another bribe for good living conditions at whatever cost your willing to endure for your current wants that are about to be eliminated form our reach at when this economic orchestration finally becomes a manifested reality.

what do you really need?

reply to post by TattarrattaT


Right, but what you call "wants" is only a thing in developed nations, people starving in africa want everything we want, they just cannot get it.

Oh by the way the monetary system will be the deciding factor of if we kill ourselves as a species or if we learn to abide by the laws of nature and survive, because we cannot break natures laws for too long or else nature will stop us.

With this system, we would be making developed nations more or less grow up by taking their toys away and giving the resources to create those toys back to the poor countries that do not even benefit from making your toys in the first place.

This movie says that the monetary system was a part of our human evolution, but now that we have gotten past the technological walls that kept the majority from starving, we can take down those walls for the rest of the world, so that 18,000 people do not STARVE every day from lack of care from people with money.

Sure there will be flaws in the beginning, but we will eventually work it out.

Or we can continue to fight over fake values we set on pieces of paper to exchange goods until we kill everybody.

Like the movie says, "What are we fking stupid????"

This movie (and the first Zeitgeist) should be presented in every 10th grade High School class before the 16 year-old goes out and gets indoctrinated into becoming an economic free-range chicken who will only spend their money on wasteful materialistic nonsense.
The movie itself was not very coherent but did bring about some good ideas such as the Venus Project. Our world is going to hell in a handbasket because we are so wasteful. There has to be a paradigm shift in the way we produce and procure things that we need in our daily lives. Shipping and transporting produce from half way around the world is very wasteful. We can grow these things locally if more people were informed as to how their food gets to their store shelves.
I hope enough people see this and open their eyes and start making changes on their own. Asking your government for this type of change will only fall on deaf ears.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by RighteousDude

 

Not a big fan of racism, religious adversity, war, hate and things not so peaceful. I do advocate individualism and a personal relationship, as well as responsibility to the Creator and Earth.

There are things happening in this world that people aren't catching onto. They are being lauded and pushed to the fore and my heart tells me they are not what people think they are. En mass we are being deceived. There is still a sense foreboding puppetry at play.

What is the last sentence in 1984?

'He loved Big Brother.'

Yes the free will part is definetely a blip in the thinking. Many of us, as individuals, seem to make the mistake that everyone thinks the same way that we do. They don't. Someone once said to me 'well everyone just wants to be happy don't they.' The answer to which is no they don't. Some people get their kicks out of being bloody miserable no matter what.

I agree that numpties are made not born, and I agree that we have to lose the system we've been using because it serves only the very few on the planet very well. I even probably agree with losing the concept of cash to reflect an advancing and humane society....but what about indiginous tribes whose way of life hasn't altered in centuries? Shouldn't that be cherished, even emulated to some degree?

What about people who don't like people? Will they still have the option to live on top of a hill somewhere miles from anyone? What about the political system in this brave new world? We'll still need one even without any dosh in the world. People will have no opportunity of producing their own wealth and food independantly of the state. What happens if real sickos get into government and determine that a certain sections of our golden age aren't welcome? How do we ensure that 'government is always good' if we become so dependent.

How many people could these hi-tech towns support?

There's a fear of mine in that I am not supportive of one world government, even tho' we effectively have it already - they just haven't figured out how to tell us directly yet. I love the differences in the cultures and peoples in the world. 'Vive la Difference'. It makes life so much more interesting. But Peter Joseph appears to be advocating the same outcome from the grassroots level rather than the elitist level. At the end of the day it amounts to the same thing for all of us. Total global control.


Anyone remember Logan's Run?

Logans Run assumes machines can operate outside thier progammes parameters. That assumption is just plain wrong, sorry but computers cannot reprogram themselves (unless that is within it's parameters).


The Venus Project website is where you will see answers to your questions. Here are some quick replies but please go to thevenusproject.com and read the FAQ-

www.thevenusproject.com...

Pretty much every question i have seen here from people is in the FAQ already.

I agree that numpties are made not born, and I agree that we have to lose the system we've been using because it serves only the very few on the planet very well. I even probably agree with losing the concept of cash to reflect an advancing and humane society....but what about indiginous tribes whose way of life hasn't altered in centuries? Shouldn't that be cherished, even emulated to some degree?

Those indigenous people (btw we are ALL indigenous to Earth, please refine your interpretation) never used money. I was born into a place that had only recently started using money.
Don't think for a second though that the lifestyle has not altered in centuries, it is constantly changing, there's too many polluted rivers to be able to live how we used to pre-colonially. Deforestisation in the name of profit plundering, almost every natural resource that indigenous people need is now locked behind a fence that has a lock that can only be opened with cash.
The Venus Project values are extremely close to pre-colonial times in the contry i was born in.

What about people who don't like people?

We will discover WHY people don't like people. What is the Cause of this?? Yes they can live on a hill, and will have the same rights to resources as anyone else in the world, they won't be ostricised but their choices will be respected. There may come a time of understanding when those people will ask themselves WHY... and perhaps discover their craving of solitude was caused by something that is not present anymore.

What about the political system in this brave new world? We'll still need one even without any dosh in the world. People will have no opportunity of producing their own wealth and food independantly of the state. What happens if real sickos get into government and determine that a certain sections of our golden age aren't welcome? How do we ensure that 'government is always good' if we become so dependent.

After we count the resources available globally there will be alot of calculations to be made about how much we have and how much we use. These will be done by a computer. The data will be input, analyzed, and calculated to reflect the availability of resources based on the carrying capacity of the Earth, and not anyones OPINION.
When we have a problem, everyone gets a say. Globally. We set up firewire/cable/wireless internet and each person has a computer in their home. The question will be asked, everyone inputs thier solution. A computer tracks questions and rates them depending on the resources and viability to implement the solution. Then spits out say 10 or so solutions that we all gloabally get to see. Then we choose which solution best fits us. That is the "government".
All people having input. All input calculated based on what is available. All viable solutions listed
for us to choose from. The decision can be arrived at in REALITY, and not clouded by which polititions are in your pocket, what secret deals you have with other countires, cultural "beliefs" or racial/sexual bias. A computer has none of these Human emotions, so is not succeptable to its conditions.

If a real sicko got into the computer system and changed things... we would ALL be able to see it as the infrastructure of any and all calculations made on the mainframe computer will be available for all to see at any time like open source. Besides that, because we have eradicated the current "way things are" we would much lessen the creation of "Sickos" in the first place. We would need to create another language. One that the whole Earth uses for communication.

There's a fear of mine in that I am not supportive of one world government, even tho' we effectively have it already - they just haven't figured out how to tell us directly yet. I love the differences in the cultures and peoples in the world. 'Vive la Difference'. It makes life so much more interesting. But Peter Joseph appears to be advocating the same outcome from the grassroots level rather than the elitist level. At the end of the day it amounts to the same thing for all of us. Total global control

Positive cultural elements will remain. Beating someone to death over a cultural value and things like that will not make it through. We can decide ourselves what you want to keep and what you do not. Forexample, maybe someone wants to keep thier comics, that is comic culture. Hurting anyone? nope. Then it's ok.

Basically, any behaviour that hurts someone or breaks their stuff should go. (Soon our concept of property will be like a Bhuddist also with TVP, as everyone would be technically sharing everything anyway)

Anyway, i do go on, i would like it if you checked the FAQ on the venus project site. there are reasons given in there much better set out than i have managed. All the best in your search!

Originally posted by fireinthelake
You Said- "another note- how can anyone release this movie for free on release with the production quality of Hollywood, without Government or Zionist backing."

My Reply- It's called commitment, and is a positive example of how money should not rule your decisions. Pretty cool eh PJ went into a cash defecit to get this out free. He didn't even cover his costs.

You Said- "another note- they debunk eugenics while promoting it in the next segment with a comment "NO, I would not forgive a criminal"- due to the scientific warm up at the beginning of the fiml- we can now buy into the comment!!!!"

My Reply- You just HAPPENED to leave out the Rest of that sentence LOL. For those that have not seen the film you're picking things out of context by leaving out the rest of that sentence... "I would not forgive a criminal just as i would not condemn him" is what the guy said. You are just fear mongering now. Don't try and pretend that was the guys quote, if you did that on purpose why??

You Said- "another note- the film promotes a hunter-gatherer repetition of todays society- gathering for the self only!!! The Ancients did this together and for all man they were in contact with- hence our comparitively RICH culture before the decimation of it by the remnants of the Roman rulers that still rule our society via materialism and the advent of intrest on money lending."

My Reply- I don't see any Hunter Gatherer promotion in there. At all. Whatsoever. Where is it please show me.
You're admitting that the "Ancients" did thier hunting and gathering all together. But when the Venus Project advocates "working together" you don't want to know about it. Why?
It's advocating a one human tribe! That has never been seen in our history so far. The implications for human advancement are MASSIVE.

reply to post by R33V3R


HELP!!!! Someone call the thought police....quick.

Google Video Link

I stopped listening when they tried to discredit laissez-faire free market capitalism buy defining it as the highly regulated manipulated commodities and currency markets. And the invisible hand Locke and Smith were talking about was not God as they try to falsely characterize. They were talking about the natural selection of the free market.

Also the idiot trying to say there was no organized violence in tribal societies. These folks are trying to repackage communism/socialism and sell it as some fantastic new concept. Same ole crap with a new dress and different lipstick.

It is not that difficult you want a new society it has to be based on freedom and voluntarism not forced redistribution of wealth. The big Corps who control everything did not get there because of a free market they got there because of a highly regulated market regulated in thier favor by their politically connected cronies in seats of government.

These guys got a bunch of PHD's to spout thier BS Marxist philosophies and hope all the suckers buy it as some profound new revelation... Sorry no sale here.

New Age Infiltration of the Truth Movement www.viddler.com...
Zeitgeist Refuted www.youtube.com...

Do not be deceived! The entire conspiracy is against God, against his Son who came in the flesh, suffered, and died on the cross for our sins, but He was victorious even over death and He is coming back! Zeitgeist does what the devil does wrapping lies in truth. Be vigalent, and trust only in the Power of Almighty God! And for the Christians and fellow watchmen out there, shout it from the roofs if you see the signs and prophecies being fulfilled, and fear not he who can kill you in the flesh, but fear He who can kill us in the flesh and in the Spirit! Christians repent, make sacrifices, and beg for mercy for failing to be the salt and light that we were called to. Preach the Cross of Christ, offer sacrifices in union with His Perfect Unblemished Sacrifice, and pray. May God have mercy on us all.

The movie covers a lot of cool things and I found myself interested at times.

That said, it's sooo damn boring.

reply to post by christina-66


Ever taken a Soma?

There are several problems with the video. If only the audio is concentrated on, it becomes easily to dissect the statements because the visuals are highly distracting and mostly irrelevant fluff to keep the viewer's attention.

I'll put the approximate time stamps and comments, then at the end, I'll give my final comments on the entire video.


47:00 re: moving money (investing). it seeks to promote those companies that will succeed in making money. this can be good or bad but not necessarily either one.

58:00 blanket statement: "things are meant to break" there are plenty of examples of things that last long. but the truth is that people are less willing to buy those things because they cost more. so really it's a matter of what consumers are willing to buy. example: disposable razors. cheap ones go dull sooner, but they can be bought cheaply. a straight edge can be re-sharpened, but it costs time and supplies (e.g., sharpening stone to hone it) to keep it sharp. the market gives people what they are willing to buy. if that happens to be cheap things that don't last as long as more expensive things, then that's what will be sold.

if you reject the values of the current system, go move in with an Amish community. it is our own choice. we are free to live as we please.

the same advertising he's condemning, he's only worsening by complaining. if you hate advertising, ignore the radio. ignore youtube. ignore TV. browse the web with ad-blocking software. it's all of our own choices to subject ourselves to most advertising. some of it is not as easy to ignore, but a lot of it is easily ignorable. it only requires making a choice to do without the things that are associated with the ads. for example, it is possible to get along walking and driving and keeping your eyes in front of you.

1:22 re: "a million dollars making 40,000. person with car loan pays interest." save your money and buy the car outright and avoid the interest. interest is the price of convenience. there are people who have the patience and smarts to buy things with cash intsead of credit.

1:28 "psychosocial stress"? let's state the truth that poorer people choose to eat more junk food. part of it is that eating healthy is expensive, but even if they had more money, would poorer people know which foods to avoid and which are healthy? would they, knowing that, want to choose the healthy ones? talk to poor people and ask them those questions. many people use food for comfort and are happy to spend a buck and change for junk from a fast food joint instead of on some spinach or an apple. free information at any public library is available to anyone who wants to learn to eat healthier foods, but of those books, how many poorer people even bother to try to learn? that tells us a lot.

2:06 besides Tesla and the Wright brothers, Edison invented plenty of things and got justly paid for them. if people have a choice of getting paid or getting nothing for their ideas, getting paid is an additional incentive. even if the inventor didn't want the money, it could easily be given away to charity.


What I make of the entire video is that it amounts to complaining about a system. Hey, it's raining. Complaining about it only makes it worse, and dreaming about some fantasy world doesn't change anything. And no number of videos passed along will take the power away from those who have it. They largely have an even greater power, which is the television. One little internet video or 3 or 20 will not match the hundreds of hours of time most people spend glued to the TV where they get their fix.

And don't forget that YouTube is "the fix" of many people on the internet, and that includes every single one of us here on ATS. Every video watched amounts to time not spent actually doing something that would have a greater effect.

Any watching of any video is itself something that brings power to the person who made the video and the site that hosts it using advertising. Watching a video is a passive activity and will always be one. Any feeling of something accomplished in watching a video is an illusion. It took me a while to learn this, and it is too bad I wasted many many hours in the past watching videos thinking I was better off. Really, I was not much better off for watching them if all I did was get pissed off over it and pissed off that other people who didn't watch it were not pissed off. It didn't change anything, because feelings by themselves toward things don't matter. Action does. Pass the video on along to the entire world if you want, and it won't change anything..

It really only makes things worse because the passive activity of watching a video has falsely boosted the idea of actual progress toward a goal. You really should feel worse afterward because the entire video is made to make the viewer feel like a helpless victim. And if anyone missed the shock images of the police and such at the end, I'll leave it up to you to guess the effect that it meant to have.

The creator of the video accomplishes two things: likely gets the viewer worked up, and increases passivity.

There is one way to accomplish change, and that is through action and accumulation of power yourself. And passing around a video for others to watch accomplishes an increase of passive behavior, which is exactly the worst thing any "movement" needs. If anyone hopes to create a change, it must be made through giving something others want in exchange for money. There are plenty of good (i.e., not evil) ways to earn money. Leave videos like this to the dogs.

For anyone who disagrees that without money or action progress can be made, think of it this way: money can buy action. Influence can induce action. Money buys influence. No poor person ever got anywhere without action, money, or influence to get the other two. There are methods to be influential that are cheap and available and require only knowledge and application of that knowledge, but they aren't found in YouTube videos. Read certain subjects of books and take action. Learn how to make videos that prompt action, would be one way. (Not merely passing a video along, of course!)

If anyone has a comment to make to me, message me because I may not follow up to this thread.