The teachings of Christ are logically, intelligently, undeniably the Truth. Test it!

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by PoorFool
Matthew 10:34 - "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword." - Jesus

The sword is symbolic of truth which is why it comes from his mouth in revelations. The truth does not bring peace at first, it brings anger and resentment. This isn't Christs fault. People have made a lot of judgements against their Brothers and Sisters, many in his name. Christ taught to not judge for a reason.

With Love,

Your Brother

The longer version of that quote makes it sound worse even. You can explain everything away with symbolism until you have nothing left of the original document. I can't remember the placing but I was sure there was a quote of which stating from God that it was the literal and unalterable word in the bible. I think it was OT but still, this would seem to suggest you should be taking it all literally OT and NT.

"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (From the NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23)"

I mean without any symbolism, how do you explain the rationale of this sort of behaviour? Unless you agree that adulter's children should die....

In respect though you got balls to do this as it's like pleading innocent in court with blood on your hands. Wish more people would atleast try listening to what other people think of scripture, even if they wish it all away with symbolism.

Would be funny to see you try with the OT though :p

I was raised Christian, but i have many problems/ questions about the religion. If you could provide some answers (to the best of your understanding of the bible) it would be great.

1. Why would an all-loving God punish homosexuals to enternal suffering in hell for simply being who they are? I know some homesexuals and they claim they are truly happy for finally accepting who they truly are. Why would God punish them for this?

2. Why would God feel a human emotion (jealousy) when it comes to "worship of false idols"?

3. The teachings say all those who do not accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior are also damned to hell. 2/3 of the world is not Christian. 2/3 of the world is not evil and many religions have the same morals/principles as Christ followers. Many are all around good people. Why would God make these people suffer?

4. What do you make of the Dinosaurs?

Please don't dodge the questions and thanks.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by IAMIAM
You provide the scripture you feel is untrue, and I will explain it logically.

I will repeat

Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
Matthew 21:21-22

(Bold mine) Anything you ask for in prayer will be received....... Clearly NOT true

If I say red berries are good to eat, and you find some berries are poisonous, does that negate my statement?
Or would the qualification, (red,) have some importance? Would you need to prove some RED berries are poisonous to negate my statement?

There is a world of difference between:
"anything you ask for in prayer will be received," and
"If you believe, anything you ask for in prayer will be received."


In times of great desperation I've experienced a change in reality such that I've become totally aware of god and of my ability to tell god to do what I've wanted. The word "believe" is much too weak a word to describe this experience of being right there with god, and being on terms which give you a right to demand what you need. In my experience, prayers asked in this state have always been answered.



The belief mentioned in the bible means knowing. You can't know your prayers will be answered without knowing the one who is going to answer them.

“Truly I tell you, if you have faith"
If you truly know god as you would know a close friend

"and do not doubt,"
and know god is capable of answering any prayer

"not only can you do what was done to the fig tree,"
you can not only do small miracles,

"but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done."
but you have the right to ask god for anything you need.

"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
The preceding sentence has explained what is meant by believe.


It's no good expecting answers when you don't know the answerer.

reply to post by IAMIAM


His teachings?
Very little, if nothing was recorded about him nor his teachings. The elite made it along the way just to control the people from military to religion (much cheaper). He was a Jew yet the founder of Christianity, you can't be both. In fact only those who follow the Nicean creed (most christians) are really Christian. All the Abrahamic religions have caused more bloodshed then unity and peace.

The truth
Prove that his teachings was the truth, yet you wont find any as none were recorded.
Test it
Hasnt the church been testing for it for years? So if the Chruch has been following the message of Jesus of Nazareth or who most call him by the name, Christ (yet he wasnt the real Christ), what they have been doing secretly since the beginning is raping little kids, so in essence is this what Jesus was doing?


-Naeem

Originally posted by DanUKphd
All genuine truth seekers wind up accepting the bible as truth. The 7 fold mathematical structure that runs from Matthew to Acts is impossible to recreate without super computers. Good luck to you though, plenty of ill informed atheistic government worshippers on ATS, very few believers.

Heeeeeey, the astounding heptadic structures of the Biblical texts is my argument for supernatural origin!


LOL

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt

Oh come on! Really? I refer to the zealots of the world galavanting under the false banner of christianity (I'm thinking the Westboro Baptist swine, the pedophilic catholic church, the abortion clinic bombers, the mega-church egoists who ignore Christ's teachings on humility etc) and you try to turn it around as if I was calling out Mother Frickin' Teresa? And you willfully ignore my honest question about whether or not there is a sect that tries to adhere only to the quoted words of Christ.

You've set the tone for your ridiculous thread quite nicely. Have fun handpicking your strawmen.

All you mentioned kinda reminds me of a warning from the Lord:

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."


We already know there are false Christians blaspheming the name and teachings of Christ. Moot point.

reply to post by StarBoy

Whats logical in good people dieing and bad people living.

This is why. God compares us to Jesus Christ. He is perfect, therefore to be "good" is to be perfect. We are all bad. There is no such thing to God: "Good people VS bad people". Only repentant bad people and unrepentant bad people.

What logical is in many unhealthy born child and many healthy and wealthy born child? Arent we all equal? then how come GOD alows this?

Everything is the result of the fall of Adam. Sin is present in the world. The reason so many "evil" people are wealthy and blessed is most likely an answer to prayer. Jesus told us to pray for our enemies and to bless them.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

The sword is symbolic of truth which is why it comes from his mouth in revelations. The truth does not bring peace at first, it brings anger and resentment. This isn't Christs fault. People have made a lot of judgements against their Brothers and Sisters, many in his name. Christ taught to not judge for a reason.

reply to post by IAMIAM

 

I understand the passage to mean that Jesus does not come to bring peace on Earth, he comes to arm his disciples with a weapon to fight the temptations of the Satan.

Yet when they arrested him, Peter drew his sword and he told Peter to put away his sword.
His message was to turn the other cheek, you cannot even prove or disprove self defense from the New Testament. Its not clear because Yeshua's teachings were not for it.

Much of what is written was done in metaphor or symbolic form. And a great deal of what he truly said is not included, buried in the coffers of the Vatican and would change all the earth and religions if it was revealed. For it was never about obeying, but going within, meditation and connecting to Higher Self, and Prime Creator, ie. Father/Mother, within. The Kingdom of Heaven is within.

Reading a passage, one can get Light messages, that can leap out at you. The one I quote the Sowing of the Seed, is about seeing. We, including the traditional christians, are all blind, if we support this world in any way, or the suffering of any person in it, or homelessness, if we think we need to force people to work for the bloodlines to have lodgings, for example instead of access to land and resources and teamwork to get jobs done, volunteering and sharing thats all thats needed.

There are a lot of distortions in the bible for they wanted people to have their understanding clouded, and a willing base to obey, support their slave system passively, not seek within, and fight their wars. In other words, stay trapped in karma, harming others, the opposite of what Yeshua came for.

So I don't follow the words of the bible as more than a dangerous (I say dangerous because some people believe it word for word and think they can stone women and children who disobey them or commit moral crimes, and its actually promotes dangerous psycho things. All the scriptures need to be studied only from historical viewpoints and scholars, not religious fanatics should find only the passages that are positive and good, and compile those interfaith, with others, ie. Veda, Native, Bahá'í and utilized in meditational groups.

Chrisitinity is the jewel. Out of the many teachers Yeshua's message, though distorted is one of Love, and leads us back home.

In a nut shell, it is not about swords, so that sword is symbolic and truth might fit the bill, I haven't read the whole passage. Plus I pray, and connect within, asking to see only the Light, the positive, to turn all negative into positive. I seek to raise my frequency, for we're in a duality hologram school and its all like this, the checkerboard floor, run by the controllers. So what eye do we see with? Do we see with the eye of light and love? That reminds me of feathers. Or Jesus walking on water, or the Tibetan and East India monks levitating. Gravity, as the duality in things in opposition. The writing in the bible, also the black and white squares, two roads to travel even in religions. A punitive judgmental, obey, war one, where authorities and gods kill, or a turn the other cheek, forgive everyone, be the light of the world, which you have renounced as well, for you are storing your treasures in heaven, and share all that you have with others, own nothing. Where the Higher Ups, the bigger lights, SERVE the little lights, they are not served as in a pyramid system.

You see, Yeshua was his Higher Self, unlike Buddah, he was not a seeker, he had found. And he was showing us how to go back home. This is true whether he walked the earth or was a metaphor.

The checkerboard floor, the twin pillars of Joachim and Boaz in Solomon's temple, basically polarity and the duality: gravity itself. Are we going to become light as a feather? No gravity or heavy conscience, overcome the world and seek within as to what needs work, to open our eyes and truly see, to be healed?
Its all about Love, and caring for the poor.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9a7dd07c89d7.jpg[/atsimg]

Matthew 10; 34-42

“Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.

I have come to set a man against his father,

a daughter against her mother,

and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

Your enemies will be right in your own household!’l

“If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. 38If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. 39If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.

“Anyone who receives you receives me, and anyone who receives me receives the Father who sent me. If you receive a prophet as one who speaks for God,m you will be given the same reward as a prophet. And if you receive righteous people because of their righteousness, you will be given a reward like theirs. And if you give even a cup of cold water to one of the least of my followers, you will surely be rewarded.”

This is from Matthew 10, Jesus sends out the 12 apostles. The entire passage is a look at life, first of all it speaks of the hardships his followers will have in the world, and may specifically be a look into the past, the spreading of Christianity.

So this talking about trials, and hardships and even gives us to understand that (unlike the manifestors and those who believe everyone is responsible for their lives, and high frequency means a healthy, wealthy prosperous life. And I also support the law of affinity teachings to a point, but only as a tool, not as a given fact) bad things do happen to good people. Many good things can come out of hardships, such as bringing forth testimony. But good people do get martyred sometimes. That we are to keep faith in difficulties and seek within, to connect with Father/Mother and Higher Self, and the Spirit of Love and Peace within us, for direction in our lives.

So we're given to know that when we follow in Yeshua's footsteps we will encounter hostility and trials. But that in these circumstances the Spirit can speak through us and shine the Light for the world, in other words, spread to the attention of more people.

He didn't say we would have an easy time. He said whole families would be divided. That we are to choose Light, positivity, Love, over even our own family. The way home is to renounce the world, to not be trapped in riches, in popularity, reputation, a good house, a good job, all the things we consider success are traps. We are to share with one another, sell our earthly belongs, in some cases this is real, in others metaphor, our own conscience needs to be sought in prayer and meditation, for we need to know, the Family, the Family of Light, they don't own things. Everything belongs to all, and all that they have will be ours if we wake up to Love and work on overcoming what is here in us. This world reveals what we are like inside, our soul's weakness, and greed, and judgemental thoughts, so its good. Its positive. We need to seek to uncover our weaknesses to turn into strengths, to put our talents and possessions at the service of others, and go back home.

So this passage is not about fighting a war, literally, or fighting disblievers with swords, its not about fighting at all. Its the opposite. And like much of what he says, parable or metaphor.

This means we will endure hardship and families will not be supportive in many cases, of doing the right thing. That we need to follow our inner guidance, and inspiration pray to find our way, and do the unpopular thing of caring, working for others, the poor and disadvantaged.

The sword seems to be one of division. Its the catalyst that reveals what we're made of, what we have inside us, with what eye we see.

This passage also shows that everyone is not an island, and while I believe in law of attraction or affinity to some extent, I don't actually believe in laws except for love, and in reality, life is hardship for those doing the right thing often, but this shows us that we are remain faithful even in hardships, that nothing is wasted, that no matter where we are, Spirit can direct us to say and do the right thing, and there is often a purpose behind our trials.

reply to post by IAMIAM

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Oath of office. An oath taken against perjury. An oath taken on an exchange of goods and services (a contract). I can give you all sorts of necessary oaths in modern society.

The oaths you mention are unnecessary. They only serve to give a false sense of obligation to those who witness the oath taking. Even if the person taking the oath intends to comply with their oath, those who witness the oath and the actions of the oath taker often feel the oath was violated even if the oath taker conformed to the oath in their own mind. Thus, do not take oaths. Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay.

Except all of those oaths are necessary. If any of them are actually violated they are grounds for legal action. If you make a contract and someone violates it, you have means to legal redress.

Christs primary teaching was to love one another. To love each other equally, with no favortism between us.

I keep hearing that this was his primary teaching, but I have never seen anyone actually prove that this is his primary teaching. As someone who has read the Bible, I have not found this to be evident in the writings.

Now logically, is there any other way a world of 6 billion plus people can live together in peace and harmony?

Well, I'd agree that it's a good idea, but I've yet to see how it's the core of his ideas.

I haven't found any other way. The only logical way is for us to love one another as absolute equals without judgement over each others free will.

Ah, but we must judge each other at some points. We must have a level or meritocracy and justice in society or else it will be either stagnant or chaotic.

We must work for a higher purpose than ourselves other wise there is no love.

We can have love without the supernatural. We can each make a higher purpose for ourselves. I'm aware that most parents consider their children a higher purpose for their life.

Christ never taught nuclear physics, thermo dynamics, advanced farming, etc. These things were not his truth.

That last one would have actually been a pretty great thing for him to teach...you know, preventing millions of people from starving.

He knew others would find those truths. His truth was how to unite us to work together.

...really? Matthew 23:31? Matthew 23:35? Mark 6:11? Mark 16:16? Luke 11:23? Luke 12:46-47? John 5:16-18? John 7:1? John 7:13? John 8:44? John 14:6?

I mean, Jesus is pretty damn intolerant and pretty good at drawing lines in the sand rather than uniting people.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Jesus clearly equates faith to well being, making clear that illness has supernatural causes. Also from Matthew:

9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Again, nothing is said here as to how it was done. There aren't step by step instructions to heal in these teachings. However, I do have faith that if I go to the Hospital, I will find a good Brother or Sister there who will heal me. I will put my trust in God that he created them with the desire to pursue this knowledge and has endowed them with the gifts that will make me well.

Except...no. Jesus is quite clear that ailments are supernatural. He said that the women's faith made her whole and that she was whole from that hour. There weren't any steps, it was just 'poof! you're whole!'.

Science is starting to understand the importance of healing the spirit as well as the body. We just aren't there all the way yet.

...no, science has nothing to say about healing the spirit. It's all about the body.

Religion should not suppress science, nor should science suppress faith.

Science never seeks to suppress faith, it just ignores it.

There is no reason for the two to not work together.

There is actually a very good reason. Science has provided us with...well...modern society and all of its benefits. Faith has provided us with...I can't think of a damn thing that faith has provided us with.

It is arrogance to assume that one has the mind to unravel the mysteries of this existence by their own doing.

You're right, that's why most scientists collaborate and build their knowledge off of the established scientific research to further understand the universe. Science is a lot about standing on the shoulders of the scientists who came before you.

Where does the thought come from that the thinker thinks?

Brain meat. Grey and white matter.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
But his lessons were more than just parables. And please show me two parables that are logical. There are quite a few of them, but it shouldn't be too hard if you take them two at a time. Each one is quite short.

Fair enough my friend.


Good that we can agree on that.

Luke 5:37,38 No one puts new wine into old wineskins, or else the new wine will burst the skins, and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved. No man having drunk old wine immediately desires new, for he says, ‘The old is better.’"

...I'm quite sure I'd prefer a nice vintage wine to year old bottle...

This is logical. Here Christ is describing how new ideas replace old. It is logical. New ideas are not easily accepted by those used to thinking the old ways. It is the logical progression of the human consciousness. Alchemy gave way to chemistry. Astrology gave way to Astronomy.

But then you're getting into an area where it's not so clean cut. Atomic theory arose from old ideas. The concept of a spherical Earth existed for centuries before it was accepted as consensus, we even had a fairly decent calculation of the circumference of the Earth using only shadows.

The same here:

Luke 5:36 He also told a parable to them. "No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old."

This actually goes against how science really works. Science is all about putting a piece of new evidence into a bunch of old evidence to figure things out better. We don't just toss out new ideas completely.

Matt 13:44 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

Oh this is a good one! What is the Kingdom of Heaven but an existence of equality, peace, prosperity, and love.

Um...can you actually back that up rather than saying that it's so?

Could you imagine such a place? I did, I see us as humanity on the cusp of this age. It is the only logical state for Man to exist. Any other way only leads to iniquity, sorrow, hate, and violence. Having seen such a state of Man, the only logical way to bring it about is by living it yourself.

Oh, I understand that the idea is good...I just don't see it as having any ties to religion.
Ok, that's a few for you.

Matt 13:47-50 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a dragnet, that was cast into the sea, and gathered some fish of every kind, which, when it was filled, they drew up on the beach. They sat down, and gathered the good into containers, but the bad they threw away. So will it be in the end of the world. The angels will come forth, and separate the wicked from among the righteous, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth."

Um...how is that good? Why not simply help the 'wicked' rather than condemn them for eternity. Eternity is a long time, I'm sure an all-loving being would understand the concept of rehabilitation over eternal punishment.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You just contradicted yourself here. We cannot know what he taught...so we can look at what he taught...

There was no contradiction my friend. We can look at what he taught and find truth, but we cannot look at what he did not teach, but only was eluded to and learn truth.

Yet we have no way of knowing if what is in the Bible was truly the teaching of Jesus. That is why it is a contradiction to say what you have said.

You mentioned the bible states he drove out demons, which is true, but the bible does not elaborate on HOW he drove them out, so we have no way of knowing whether this is true or false. Those things which only serve to embellish the tale, I do not triffle with, I look at the what is clearly given and defined.

Yet we can not know if what is clearly given and defined ever happened...

This is just my view though my friend. There are plenty of believers and disbelievers who will disagree with this method.

At least you're honest about it. It's hard to deal with those who think their way is absolute.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
So we look at what he taught...even though we can't know exactly what he taught...and then we only look at those things he taught in the form of parables.

There are those things that Christ taught, there are those things which Christ did, and there are things which others claimed Christ did. I worry only about what he taught.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
So no "He who is without sin cast the first stone"? I don't like that teaching, it gets rid of all forms of secular justice if applied literally.

Is it not logical?

How can you judge someone when you do wrongs against others yourself? Do you believe secular justice is just? It is NOT.

Secular justice is far more just than the justice preached by Jesus which involves eternal damnation for finite crime. It's also less more just than the absence of secular justice. An imperfect system is superior to no system.

We live in an unjust world. We have created this unjust world by our systems of iniquities. We judge a man for stealing when we have created a world where he has to steal to survive.

Except that there aren't many who have to steal to survive...

We judge a man for murder when we have created a world that does not value life.

A world that doesn't value life? I'm quite sure our world actually values life quite a bit...

We judge a woman for adultery when our society does not help you love flourish.

Well, that's actually not a legal issue, it's a sociological issue.

Where is the justice you speak of my friend?

It's in the system that allows for redress of actions committed against others. Those who break the established law pay the consequences. Those with mitigating circumstances are actually considered. Those who are punished by an unjust law can actually challenge the law itself.

I do not see any sinners. I see a world where each is doing what they have been taught to do to survive. Survival is the first basic instinct. We are living for ourselves and not for each other.

Then you are seeing an odd and distorted view of the world.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Where does the thought come from that the thinker thinks?

Brain meat. Grey and white matter.

Are you implying that you have figured out how, in principle, experience can arise from matter?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Our exchanges are growing by leaps and bounds my friend, so please take no offence if I forgo the line by line reply and simply cut to the chase.

Christs two great commandments are simply to love God with all your heart your soul and your being, and your neighbor as yourself. From these two great commandments stem all of his other teachings, which only exemplify these two. This is where people keep getting that love is Christs primary teaching. Now you know.

Now symbolism and allegory seems to be getting in the way of meaningful exchange, so I will leave that out for a moment and lets look at law and justice logically.

You believe that secular justice is necessary. You are certainly welcome to this view and I would venture to say you are in the majority.

I on the other hand believe secular justice is absolutely abominable and far from just. Allow me to offer a few view points on the matter.

First, I believe in freedom, absolute total freedom. I am the sole judge of my self and no one else has any right to make such judgements. This is natural by me simply being. As it is right for me, it is only natural that I extend this to others as well, lest I be a hypocrite.

Second, as I believe that my freedom is absolute as well as that of others, self preservation demands that a way be achieved where by I am able to navigate a world of free entities with out them doing me harm, or with out causing conflict between them and myself. If I allow conflict to arise it could quickly escalate into violence between us, which will only cause those allied with either side to join the fray resulting in all out war and an eventual need for the secular justice you so crave. So, desiring to keep my freedom, how do I conduct myself with other?

Love. Every single one of the free will entities I encounter I shower with absolute love as if they were my long lost siblings. What they need becomes my need, what ails them becomes my ailments, what they enjoy becomes my enjoyment. I share this world with them and do my best to help them see it as beautifully as I do. By treating others this way, they have a natural inclination to return the favor and we all live free and prosperously. It is Heaven, and I have seen it with my owns eyes.

Now you may say what about murderers and rapist and thieves and all these "Bad" people who need justice. I tell you true they are my Brothers and Sisters as well and are deserving of the same freedom I enjoy and the same love I would give to anyone else. But first, they must be healed of their demons. Let me share with you some demons that I have encountered in life.

There was a good Brother I once knew who was born to a psychotic father and an alcoholic mother. His father was violently psychotic to the point where he beat his wife on a daily basis. This is why she turned to alcohol, to slip into a comfortable oblivion after the beatings. One day my Brothers mother had enough and she fled the family leaving my Brother behind as the sole focus of his fathers rage. Every day my Brother faced beatings that would make most people fall into a state of dementia. His fathers prefered choice of torture was a steel chain that he kept hanging on the wall for the occassion. There were plenty of signs in the community that this was going on, but no one cared. Rather than investigate, he was constantly judge unworthy by society simply because he became aggressive himself. When he became a teenager my Brother took Jujitsu under a true Master. There he learned to control the rage within him and focus it to more noble pursuits. He built his body up until it was hard as steel and deadly. Eventually he was strong enough to throw down his tormentor.

After beating the snot out of his father, he was thrown out on the street. Rather than become a common criminal he enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. Though he always had a problem with authority which prevented him from gaining rank or recognition, there was not a Marine around him who did not know his back was covered in a fire fight. My Brother believed in the Brotherhood the Marines claimed to be and here he found the family he never had growing up. During one deployment to Iraq he was providing security for a sniper team. They lead sniper offered him the chance to take the shot after he sighted the rifle in. My Brother took the opportunity. He aimed in, squeezed the trigger, and the shot rang out. Seconds later the target took off into a building and 6 feet to the right, a pregnant Iraqi woman fell dead in the road. The rifle was slightly off mark.

On his return home he discovered there were many rumors flying around the neighborhood about his wife having illicit affairs. So, he took her for a ride out into the woods. There he held a shotgun up to her head and demanded the truth on the matter. She told his command of the incident and this resulted in his court martial and dishonorable discharge from the only family he knew and loved.

To battle all the demons that his life had brought upon him, he turned to marijuana. This eased his pain enough for him to function normally in society. He got a job working in a rock quarry and things were going well for him. One day he was hit with a random urinalysis. He informed the boss that he smoked marijuana regularly and for his honesty, he was given a grace period to clean up. He tried his hardest to clean up. I was there with him through it all. After the first week he had become extremely angry, he could not sleep for the constant nightmares, and he was contemplating suicide to escape it all. So, we fired up a joint and kissed the job good bye.

I walked with this Brother through all kinds of hell. I was let into his world because I came without judgement. I was allowed for a brief moment in time to see the world through his eyes. I tell you this is a GOOD Man. All he knew since birth was hell and torment and still he always yearned to do the right thing. As a reward he was met with constant judgement from the school system, the law, the Corps he loved, society at large, and even the Freemasons, the Brotherhood who promised to him that they would always have his back. No one loved this Brother enough to not judge him, to love him, and to try to help him. No one save me.

He is not the only person I have walked with in life. I have walked with prostitutes, thieves, drug dealers, pimps, Millionaires, politicians, and every single person has had their demons, some much more than others. What seperates one from the other is not wealth, education, race, or religion, but the judgements society has placed on them. No man has any right to judge another, no not one. No one knows what demons another faces, what pains they have been through, and how hard they have struggled to find the light in their darkness. All we have a right, all we have an obligation to do, is love and help one another.

This is what Christ taught. If you cannot see past the outdated verbage to see the truth within, perhaps this little piece through my eyes will help. It is understandable why people reject the lessons of Christ. So few actually do what he teaches. Judgements are cast like a game of horse shoes, and his legacy has become a club for the self righteous. If you can get past that though, and read his lessons with an open heart and mind, you will see that the world he promised is within our grasp. It is up to us to make it. His second coming is one of spirit, of him entering our collective hearts and mind. Keeping the door shut only delays for a moment, the eventual awakening of our divine nature.

With Love,

Your Brother

Most of the answers you give are just twisted in your way without proof, in your opinions favour. Even though they contradict your religion and book and even though you do not provide proof only the book which is a very slim proof here on ATS.

Originally posted by StarBoy
Most of the answers you give are just twisted in your way without proof, in your opinions favour. Even though they contradict your religion and book and even though you do not provide proof only the book which is a very slim proof here on ATS.

You seem to not understand metaphor my friend. Christ taught in parables which are metaphors that take an everyday situation and use those images to explain a fundamental truth that otherwise would be too complex for the uneducated masses at the time to understand.

Rather than participate in the discussion by offering a parable you do not understand and discussing it until you do, you choose to sit on the sidelines and ridicule those who are trying to make clear to others what is contained within them.

I am sure you have your reasons for your hate and discontent towards Christ's teachings, but can you really argue with his truth? Let me ask you then:

Do you want to be loved and respected for who you are?

Do you want people to not judge you?

Do you want a world where your burdens are shared and your pains healed?

Do you want to be acknowledged as an equal before God and Man?

Answer those questions truthfully.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by StarBoy
Most of the answers you give are just twisted in your way without proof, in your opinions favour. Even though they contradict your religion and book and even though you do not provide proof only the book which is a very slim proof here on ATS.

The scriptures and what Jesus said, is metaphorical, we don't see clearly and have many things blinding us in this world, from political opinions, divisions,money, greed, wishes for revenge, or to harm others, ego, wounds from childhood we havn't healed that distort our hearts and minds. Fear for some keeps them in line, fear of losing their jobs, etc, some just follow orders, even when their conscious says its wrong.

But the Higher Ups, did not come to hand the answers to us in a form of a cheat on the tests. So we don't get told straight out and have to dig a bit, and it really has to do with, what eye you see with, is it filled with light. Are you growing in consciousness, love, awareness, or is your sight growing dimmer, colder and more distorted.

Mercy always wins out over laws by the way, I was a reading a poster above, and he mentioned the laws and oaths. We should say yes, and no and if we need to change our mind because our insight and heart grows, do so.

You're not handed out cheats with the tests. It has to do with our perception and awareness. So we need to seek and raise our compassion, then the answers will come more.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

I keep hearing that this was his primary teaching, but I have never seen anyone actually prove that this is his primary teaching. As someone who has read the Bible, I have not found this to be evident in the writings.

Are you serious? I could thumb to the verse right now. I'll give you a clue, He is speaking to the crowd who asks Him what the greatest commandment is.


Secondly Madness, you don't see the glaring contradiction with a moral authority for all mankind that appeals to mankind? How do we all know instinctively that it is wrong to murder another human? Animals have no such conscience. How do we know instinctively that we should treat others how we wish to be treated? Animals know no such instinct. Animals will steal food from one another, yet we humans consciously know this is wrong.

You have to appeal to an authority higher than man for it to be applicable to all men.

I've seen so far in this thread the usual nonsense of "allegory and parable" when anything is mentioned that seems to paint Jesus or the Bible in a bad light.

I love the picking and choosing, it's part of how I am confident that most actual, literal followers of the Bible have no idea about the religion they claim top be a part of.


Anyone, as to the OP.


How about Jesus' empty promises?

Jesus said (numerous times) pray for whatever you want and it will happen.
Ask for anything and it will be granted.

Even going as far as moving mountains into the ocean.

Obviously if you prayed for this right now, it wouldn't happen..... Jesus lied.

The end.


Oh also, doesn't he promise his followers that he would establish his kingdom in their lifetime?

He says that the stars would fall and blah blah.... and that it would happen in their lifetime.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Originally posted by blupblup
How about Jesus' empty promises?

Jesus said (numerous times) pray for whatever you want and it will happen.
Ask for anything and it will be granted.

Even going as far as moving mountains into the ocean.

Have we not moved mountains when we so desired them be moved? Have we not been given the insight to do these things? Where do these insights come from, from thought? Where does that thought come from?

Anything you desire, if you believe it is possible, will come to pass. The examples that lay right before your eyes are not good enough for you. You will proclaim "But MAN did these things!". And you will not give the credit to that divine being, the mysterious origin of our very thoughts that make things happen. I cannot prove this parable any more than the world around you already has.

Originally posted by blupblup
Oh also, doesn't he promise his followers that he would establish his kingdom in their lifetime?

He says that the stars would fall and blah blah.... and that it would happen in their lifetime.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Watch... These things you mock are happening right before your eyes and you do not see them. Look around at your world and watch.

Here is the whole passage:

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The generation he was referring to was the time span between his life and his second coming. The time when Men erected their systems of government which lead to their own oppression. He says in the passage that you mock, that no man knows the hour of his coming. Still today, no man knows. I can only tell you that the hour is at hand though. We are entering the age of sorrows. Watch.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by blupblup
I've seen so far in this thread the usual nonsense of "allegory and parable" when anything is mentioned that seems to paint Jesus or the Bible in a bad light.

No examples?

I love the picking and choosing, it's part of how I am confident that most actual, literal followers of the Bible have no idea about the religion they claim top be a part of.

What about those of us who outright reject religion?

How about Jesus' empty promises?

not aware of any, care to show examples?

Jesus said (numerous times) pray for whatever you want and it will happen.

I can only remember one specific prayer I have had over the years that has gone unanswered. That tells me either the answer in no, or it's not the right time yet.

Ask for anything and it will be granted.

Jesus doesn't say that. ^^^

Even going as far as moving mountains into the ocean.

In the Hebrew culture "mountain" is a metaphor for "nation". You'd know this is you would take the time to look into "Hebraisms".

Obviously if you prayed for this right now, it wouldn't happen..... Jesus lied.

Nope, you're ignorant to the literary devices of the Jews.

Common error.

Oh also, doesn't he promise his followers that he would establish his kingdom in their lifetime?

He promised the "Kingdom of Heaven" was at hand. Have you been to heaven to verify this didn't happen?

He says that the stars would fall and blah blah.... and that it would happen in their lifetime.

Another Hebraism, "stars" is a common metaphor for Angels. Biblically ignorant skeptics commonly take the mataphors and allegory as literal, and take the literal and make them allegory.

Common error.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

We'll have to see if the generation that witnesses all the end time events passes without all being fulfilled.

His disciples asked Jesus 3 different Qs in a compound question.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, (1.) when shall these things be? and (2.) what shall be the sign of thy coming, and (3.) of the end of the world?

Oh wait... When Jesus said "this" were you assuming He was talking to those seated around Him???

The disciples were asking Him about the end of the age/world, not what would happen 2 weeks from Tuesday.

If christ were to return right now the same thing would happen to him,for true enlightenment no darkness can prevail and humans are flesh and we all did eat his flesh ,or is that incorrect,very reptilian.
No,I believe his knowledge was way ahead of the time ,even today and he well knew that we are only custodians of the rock we live on",on this rock",hence his sermon on what will happen when the true owners of this rock return. Will they be pleased ,what do you think "where the carcass lies the eagles and vultures gatherf " and remembering birds are the descendants of dinosaurs,reptiles,oh well ...lunch,the last supper is served.,so many cryptic enlightenment in his work
Really the light on the mountain with the disciples"The transformation".Many scholars state they were all stoned on drugs,but how does that account for jesus saying"do not tell anyone what you saw here tonight",does`nt sound as though his disciples were stoned to me as he admited to them it was real.
I never miss the fine detail,true enlightenment is on the horizon .Show us a sign,show us a sign.....get the nails reasdy hes not like moses,nope no burning bush or anomaly above the tabernacle.
Peace: