I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by zorgon

 

The secret is aload of rubbish, i have been negative all my life, and still here.

Yeah, but where would you be if you'd not been negative all your life? Probably in a completely different situation. Doesn't make what he's saying wrong. (I'm overly negative too a lot of the time, so not getting at you, just saying.)

You people? YOU PEOPLE? Just kidding. Well that's their jobs, the disinfo agents. AND if something genuinely has been faked, it would be better to know it than believe on a false pretense, right?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
And how do we change it..how do we get it back on the right track?

Some consistent form of reporting on ATS would be a start - if someone has to work at the report, think about the details and provide more info up front (as apposed to promising later which is always suspicious imo) we'd have an increased chance of actually evaluating reports seriously. I also frequently evaluate the 'I've seen a UFO' threads and am more than often entirely disappointed with the lack of detail in the reports (they are sometimes even third party which again makes them dubious).

If a member wants to post about a sighting then we should expect some detail, i.e
Date of Sighting
Location of Sighting
Description of Sighting incl Appearance, Size, Approx altitude & distance
Daytime/Night-time
Surroundings
Duration
Number of Witnesses
Observers views on UFOs, before and after sighting
How much the observer knows of 'UFOs' prior to the sighting
perhaps a diagram or sketch (with member assistance if req'd).

I'm currently reading a book on UFO's which provides military FOI copies of witness statements which are far superior in quality and detail than the majority posted on ATS unfortunately. It's not that I don't believe people are seeing UFO's but the reports are usually light on the detail.

I wouldn't want to discourage members coming forward with stories of sightings but if we improve the information capture up front the time wasters will fade away imo.
Good Post - food for thought indeed.

reply to post by SaturnFX


OK, just base it on science. If things have gotten out of hand, than go back to your basics of history and science.

First of all, your a living proof of Aliens. If you look at your DNA, you stem from many races. Second, your history and your facts, you can find them underwater or above water. Many of the ancients artifacts of human beings from another solar systems are scribed on the egyption walls/plates, sumerian walls/plates, and many others. To find other places, is to go under water to find atlantis, the buildings that had sunk long time ago. You can also go to japan, where lumeria had sunk long time ago.

Honestly, even if we told you or show you the evidence, you may not believe it. So if you want to know the information and clarify it, you will have to begin a journey and search.

Originally posted by unlimited1
Honestly, even if we told you or show you the evidence, you may not believe it.

Interesting comment there, show us and let us be the judge

reply to post by SaturnFX


I wouldn't hold your breath, I have never seen any real evidence, it is a lot like religion, based on faith.
But if ships are visiting the. They aren't aliens, just people from the future looking scary from evolution and genetic engineering, would explain why there is no disclosure.

Me just saying that could alter the future and make them nonexistent meaning, they aren't even here, so TAADAA!

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I really do want to believe. I want to find evidence that simply is out of this world (literally) and conclude that extraterrestrials are indeed visiting (or visited) earth.

I came to ATS because I was very interested in the subject, and after watching a long video by John Lear being interviewed by project camelot, I found my way here (they badmouthed ATS...and figured if they were debunking this guys claims while remaining open about ETs in general, thats where I need to go).

So, you come here, you get excited whenever you see a ET thread..maybe this will finally be it, the smoking gun..the thing that will make me go from skeptical but hopeful to full fledged believer, tin foil hat wearing crystal swinging plejarian calling UFOnaut.

Yet daily and weekly, we get just misunderstood lights in the sky discussions, contrails called ETs, dodgy websites channeling lightships that never show up, booksellers trying to suggest they know something groundbreaking and smashing which never pans out to anything more than conjecture and hypotheticals taken as fact.

I have discovered far more from discoverys "ancient aliens" series than most stuff on ATS. Why is there such trouble bringing quality evidence forward..why is there such a religion of ETs verses a actual investigation on this board?

I want to believe...why are many of you "believers" making it soo difficult by tossing up nonsense...so much so that your chasing strong skeptics away and making the subject become less of an investigation and more of a really dumb religion.

And how do we change it..how do we get it back on the right track?

There is not really a way to get it on the "right track", There never was. People have been #ting up the subject with their skeptical opinions and believers doing the same with their tin foil hat deal. You just have to go outside and look for yourself. I don't get too into the UFO threads anymore unless it looks sensational. I just go outside and get my fix there.

Why do you desire to believe we are being visited? Why can't the knowledge that there are trillions of other stars and most likely, billions of solar system with planets that can support life make the fence lean a little?

Originally posted by autowrench
Sorry to burst your bubble, but in many cases, "mental illness" is nothing but a way for a doctor to label and understand what the person is talking about. I will agree that what you say fits a small portion of humanity, but for the most part, when a human being sees something from another planet, they tend to talk about it, and report it.

No need for a sorry, I'm well aware of the over medicated masses who prefer a drugged stupor over a cold reality.

Mental illness as a term is all encompassing and I'm not belittling those who have genuine reality issues with those who are looking for a little kick.

But when talking of numbers remember how many zone into watch 'Stars on Ice' or whatever little distraction that appeases the mainstream. People are pathetic and deserve the attacks the get on their trending. This isn't to say that there are a few who don't fit the mould, but of that few, how many are mentally stable?

That's the small percentage we need to find and that's the hardest thing to do in a world run by sensationalism!

-m0r

The only way to get "proof" would be for something to happen to you personally. This is the only way you will ever get proof. Even if you recorded video of something happening, most would dismiss it as a hoax or special effects. With the technology we have today ANYTHING can be made up. ANYTHING. Look at hollywood movies. Some of those can look very real. With that being said, all the doubters would tear anything to pieces. Any "documents" found could have been typed up in someone's basement. Basically, you can never get "proof" until it happens to you. It is up to you to choose what to believe. Some people are more gullible than others. It is actually hard to determine what is "real" nowadays. Some things you see on the news could actually be outright fake. I honestly don't know what to believe regarding man on the moon. There are a lot of things out there that say it happened and a lot of others saying it was a hoax. Unless I go to the moon or decide to trust the words of others who say they went, then there is no proof either way to me. So I have to decide to BELIEVE something. Really it is just a personal decision.

Originally posted by SurReality
OP, it's not my job, or even my interest to make you or anyone else believe.

Nobody is going to fully believe until they have their own experience.

Which i have had multiple times.

Sooo what i'm saying is... i dont care. goodbyeeee

ATS may not be "your thing" with that attitude. try 4chan

Originally posted by CJCSuperman
Really it is just a personal decision.

I completely follow you. Seriously.

But it stops being a personal decision when you start telling people your belief is real.

Then you are propagating the (possible false) reality as fact.

I have no issue with what people believe on a personal level. And I believe they should teach their children what they think is correct regardless of my own viewpoint. But telling strangers that something is fact, especially without any evidence to support that claim, is as close to the worst thing possibly in a civilised society that I can imagine.

-m0r

Couldn't agree with you more Moriarty. I want to give my kids all angles on things and let them choose what to believe.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Consider for a moment the amount of collective "evidence" that exists on various forums and media covering the topics of UFO's and ET's. Thousands of still photographs, videos, eye witness testimony, books, etc. Yet we still have those who truly believe and or believe that there is something "out there"; and non-believers/skeptics. I believe there are two possible "events" that will end this debate once and for all move this from the realm of the possible or impossible to absolute fact.

One, a major "disclosure" event occurs sponsored by the various government's around the world releasing their collective knowledge and evidence to the public. If UFO's and ET's do in fact exist, this will most likely never happen until circumstances change and this "disclosure" benefits their agenda, whatever that agenda may be. Otherwise this "disclosure" event would have occured already.

Two, an event occurs on a massive scale that is witnessed by millions of people. It must be an event so massive that is broadcast and publicized by thousands of media resource's: news channels, newspapers, radio shows, etc. Use the events in movies such as "Signs" and "Independence Day" as a template if you will.

Until one of these two events occurs, we are going to stuck with the same old scenarios: evidence or hoax, credible witness or crackpot. In the meantime, enjoy the debate. Laugh at the videos that are obvious hoax attempts, and ponder the "evidence" that seems credible. After all, the debate itself is part of what makes us "human".....

reply to post by SaturnFX


Ufos will always fall under the catagory that bigfoot, ghosts and werewolves fall under. The paranormal.

I see simalarities in all of these phenomena. Always the now you see me now you don'ts little mischief games.
That's how they will remain.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I have found that listening to the testimony of the astronauts who have been up there moves me more in the direction of believing. Of course there are web sites that put forward information that cannot be verified like one I saw that said that the transmission of communications from the lunar landing in 1969 was cut off from the public who were watching and listening from their livingrooms because they had discovered alien aircraft lining a large crater on the dark side of the moon. They presented a written record of the remainder of the communications transmitted stating this and calling for the records to be made top secret. I cannot take this as an actual fact because no evidence other than a transcript was available. However Gordon Cooper said right out that he knows of UFO's and extraterrestrials and even thought he cannot produce strong evidence I feel his credentials are strong enough to support his claims. There have been testimony from others in the space program from astronauts to NASA control people who have come forward with their own stories and most of these I would find credible also. I saw a re-run of the Natl Press Club meeting of May 1 2002 ( may be off on the date memory being what it is at age 53 LOL) This meeting presented many credible testimonies. It did not come off like a History Channel special if you know what I mean. I highly recommend this program if you can come across a copy. It might be available on line.

Moriarty- "But telling strangers that something is fact, especially without any evidence to support that claim, is as close to the worst thing possibly in a civilised society that I can imagine."
__
Although I would agree with this, how do you gather any evidence to support your claims??? The answer is you can't. People will still choose to believe your "evidence" or to dismiss it. Just because someone types something or posts a picture does not make it fact. Again the ONLY real way to get proof for something is to experience it yourself. That is it. Whatever research you bring up could be biased or false. I was not involved in the research so I cannot determine its validity. I could go on and on and many may label me as crazy but it is the truth. I know that religious people may have a field day with this. Things they say are their BELIEFS, not proven facts. I am getting a little off subject though. As far as ETs go, maybe they are out there, maybe not. The only ones who can say yes for sure are the ones who have experienced them. All others can not disprove their existence so.... It is a personal choice, once again, on what to believe.

I believe that beings would have to break our known laws of physics to ever have visited us, and I don't mean to imply that our known scientific knowledge is all there is to know.

I'm under the impression that deep space travel by living beings would have to be their permanent existence, and never populating any rock orbiting a star. For the amount of time it would take to find any habital(I know not a word)–no strike that, any solid solar orbiting object to step foot on without disintegrating, would have to have been born and lived their entire lives on a spacecraft and eventually after many generations in travel would be all they know of existence.

I'm not convinced those who believe in alien visitation really understand the distances involved and what happens to matter as it approaches light speed, and even if one can travel light speed one wouldn't get very far through a single galaxy in their lifetime, and most likely could never return from where they left to start with.

It violates everything we are able to observe that we know, and most of what we know we have yet to find a way to actually demonstrate, which to means it doesn't pass the Scientific Method to ever reach even our closest celestial neighbors, let alone ones that may have planets in the zone that can support liquid water, atmosphere, and the all important magnetosphere, which is absent on say, Mars.

I agree with OP

All i see in UFO threads is the religious believers come in, and start telling people their idiots (ad Hominem), and that they should open their eyes and see that obviously aliens are all around us

Thats when threads get delusional, and i stop visiting

But, unfortunately, with a subject like this (as with religion) there will always be desperate fanatics who disparage the beliefs of anyone who doesn't see it their way.

Originally posted by unlimited1
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

First of all, your a living proof of Aliens.

go under water to find atlantis

Honestly, even if we told you or show you the evidence, you may not believe it.

lol. See?