I want to believe, but you people make it really difficult.

one of the things i find very coincidental about alot of people here, is that whenever there is a good video of a UFO or good editorial, there are those people who do nothing but disregard everythng, like it would take a UFO landing in front of them for them to believe in the possibility of UFOs being anything other than (insert random debunking explanation like weather balloon).

But then you have alot of really shady, almost nonsensical stories with no possible way to prove other than just believing the OP (ex. My contacts with the galactic federation say this is going to happen soon)

Really, you just gotta form your own opinion and try to just ignore the stuff you don't believe and move on to the stuff you find interesting. However, just outright insulting people, whatever they may be presenting, seems to be the more common post than giving your belief of why they are wrong.

But, as is ATS and the Internet i guess.

There are two things any person can say free of doubt:

• UFOs may be of an extraterrestrial or paranormal origin.
• UFOs may not be of an extraterrestrial or paranormal origin.

But, what a person cannot say without being challenged by reason is that UFOs are undoubtedly of an alien or paranormal origin. The reverse also applies. Things just don't work that way.

Getting to the bottom of whatever it is lies in the hands of the people who have an interest in it. If the UFO folk don't trust the government enough to solicit their assistance in this search, then they are going to be required to amass their own resources, finances and methods of investigation. Then these things must be presented to accredited scientists who have no personal agenda in the topic and made to be accepted among their peers as fact. Before any group of people with any importance to the world will accept the ETH as fact, they must absolutely have no choice but to.

This is what I pursue in my own search. Best of luck to other investigators.

Originally posted by NavalFC

The concept of mind over matter doesn't mean if we think it it exists.

It does in my world

[It does not mean if you think it it exists, otherwise i'd be rich with a harem of hot asian women being driven around in a limo in some major city.

Is that what you REALLY want?

For just a moment I will forget you are an uber Skeptic and share a secret with you. Whether or not you take it to heart, I cannot say... but I am sure at least one person seeing it will.

"Think and Grow Rich" ~ Carnegie

"Ask and ye shall receive" ~ a common religious term most do not really understand

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." ~ Albert Einstein

Matthew 17:20 Jesus says quite clearly:
"For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. "

The phrases are all around us, famous people have used it to get where they are. Do me a favor and spend 20 minutes and do a little thinking. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but cannot make him drink.

I hear people all the time complain about secret societies and how they hoard secrets... well today you get a glimpse



Just take a few minutes and think a little after wards. More than this I cannot do

Originally posted by sir_slide
how is somebody trusted enough to have the nuclear launch codes, but not reliable enough to relate what he has seen with his own eyes

Seems people claiming to be a person of particular importance are not always who or what they claim. In that link there is a man who claims to be an ex air-force pilot who flew armed jets. I certainly wouldn't leave it to him to detect who is an ally and who is an enemy in a dogfight from his apparent lack of critical analysis of a tiny dot in someone else's poor quality video of a cloud - and I doubt any military personnel would put him in a situation where he could validate my claim.

Seems that often people come forward with claims that they are, or were, important players in defence or research roles and yet bring nothing substantial to the table other than a book or a conference. The wife of the Japanese premier claimed to have gone to Venus with aliens and there's that Russian chess champion who asserts that ET is in touch with Earthly authorities.

Because of their social capital should we give these accounts more credibility than Billy-Bob and Mary-Sue?

Mental illness, attention seeking behaviour and downright charlatan antics are far more likely causes for most of the stories of ET or even NWO claims.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
IF it exists, it is Normal.

To play the semantic card then Muzzleflash, are you saying paedophilia is normal?

For me, until something is understood it is paranormal or supernatural.

-m0r

reply to post by SaturnFX


The thing is my friend, even if the best video or evidence was to suddenly appear you would still have to ask the question to yourself whether it is believable or not. Unless you have a close encounter or see something strange yourself, it is very hard to believe some of the stuff put forward here, and not just in the Alien/UFO topics.

I had an unexplainable experience the other night which has pretty much confirmed to me that we are not alone unless it was NASA etc, but I don't think it was. The best thing to do is keep watching the skies and one day you will see something, and that is all you need to confirm your beliefs, just 1 event.

There is good evidence as some of the videos I have seen couldn't possibly be edited, And being there is so many places in the universe, I cannot agree that we are the only intelligent life form in the universe. When you think deeply about the subject, It is almost impossible that we are the only life form.

Star and flag, because I totally agree with what you are saying, and hopefully sooner than later we all as a planet will find out the truth about this topic and hopefully it will bring great things with it, unless they are hostile of course...

reply to post by m0r1arty


Certainly noted. I'd like to point out, and im referring strictly to the disclosure project here, that IF these people were not who they say they are, and had fabricated their qualifications etc, don't you think that this would immediately discredit the entire project, lending no creedence to anything discussed? Do you not think that the director of the project would have verified these qualifications in order to substantiate his efforts? Do you not think that IF that was the case, that the military would quickly respond with the fact that these people are not who they say they are??

I know that it is not past any individual to make outlandish claims, but in this case I just don't believe it, they are not being paid, recieve only ridicule, many seem very troubled while discussing these matters, you have young soldiers recounting with military precision these events, I just don't believe that all of these 100 people were hallucinating, and that goes for the guys in redlesham forest too.

OP, it's not my job, or even my interest to make you or anyone else believe.

Nobody is going to fully believe until they have their own experience.

Which i have had multiple times.

Sooo what i'm saying is... i dont care. goodbyeeee

Originally posted by sir_slide
Certainly noted. I'd like to point out, and im referring strictly to the disclosure project here, that IF these people were not who they say they are, and had fabricated their qualifications etc, don't you think that this would immediately discredit the entire project, lending no creedence to anything discussed?

Firstly I'd like to note that I'm not against you here in any way shape or form.

With that said I do not think Steven Greer's education or qualifications are beyond repute for one.

He started the 'Disclosure Project' and sells books and charges for talks and is a PR machine for peddling his wares.

There is a constant flow of press statements which talk about imminent disclosure which has never come to pass and stories so fantastical and imaginative that they each, if all true, trip over contradictions with each other.

That's not to say the concept of the Disclosure Project is bad - just that it's not a working model with so many liars and thieves gravitating towards it from the get go.

It has yet to produce anything 'concrete' as evidence.

-m0r

reply to post by SaturnFX


In response to the OP, I'd have to hazard a guess that it's almost like any other thing where there is little proof of something but the thought is too overwhelming to do any research.

Religion is like that with people falling over themselves to believe right away without needing proof, 9/11 Truthers, JFK theorists, they also do the same (although to give credit to the Truthers, they actually try to partake in some investigating).

I'm not saying there's nothing out there or discrediting those who say they have experiences but with even experts saying that a tiny percentage of sightings could be truly unexplained, there doesn't seem to be many people out there dissecting videos and experiences and falling into the trap of "hey wow, it's all true".

reply to post by m0r1arty


No problem at all. I can't help but think that maybe all of that is to spread the message while making a living. Although I can see peoples skepticism, I found it incredibly annoying some of the statements he makes about imminent disclosure, I got so incredibly excited when i first saw the testimonies, I was just positive that this had to make a massive difference to UFO perceptions world wide, but apparently it didn't do much I guess.

I agree that his reputation is not above scrutiny, same goes for his motives, but I get this feeling while watching him that he really does know something, claiming disclosure is seconds away isnt very productive for his credibility when time and time again nothing happens, but I suppose it would be completely out of his control if it were to happen. Do you personally think he is a complete fraud? Totally honest question.

Originally posted by sir_slide
Do you personally think he is a complete fraud? Totally honest question.

I'm glad my opinions on Greer didn't come across as a personal slight on you. It can be difficult to gauge people around here. Good to know you've got a sceptical mind when regarding Greer's background and motives.

As for whether I think he is a complete fraud - I don't know for sure.

It's possible that he is indeed one of those people who just needs to construct a fantastical reality where he is an important figure in it and deludes himself to anything which counters that viewpoint without any genuine malice or bad intentions.

It could be that all of what he claims is absolutely true and he is fighting the good fight and is bringing the light of truth to humanity and ceasing the co-operation of governments and extra-terrestrials and their abduction of people for nefarious ends.

It's also possibly that he is preying on the insecurities and vulnerabilities of those who feel there must be more to existence than is presented. Similar to any snake oil vendor or religious leader herding the sheep into their abattoir.

And finally he could be getting played by certain intelligence communities or political agents. Be a figurehead where they can manipulate to whatever ends they see fit for unknown purposes.

In my head he's a crook. It's the simplest answer and the most human.

But I am a sceptic and can't deny that an, or possibly all or a combination thereof of these possibilities could be what he is.

Until we actually have genuine evidence for visiting ET we can't second guess anything. We can only work with what we have and it will be science and reason that will explain the UFO phenomena and not some crank with an over-active imagination and no proof.

-m0r

reply to post by zorgon


The secret is aload of rubbish, i have been negative all my life, and still here.

Though i most definitely believe there is something above us all.

Originally posted by m0r1arty

Originally posted by SaturnFX
My theory on hoaxers...they dated someone whom said they love them, only to find out it was a lie and they were using them..so, this is a subconscious punch back at the world for the deception they had to endure.

I love the fact you gave them a backstory. I might adopt that myself to make it easier tolerating them.

I read your thread 57 secs after it was posted Saturn....and I can't think of anything to say and so have watched the responses come in and can only offer the fallacy of hope.

It's my observation that you are dealing with absolute, utter, no compromising on totality, genuine idiots when talking to some believers.

Those who accept it can be the case that there is alien crafts visiting Earth aren't those I'm labelling here. Because they can accept the fact that it might be something else too. Being open to all possibilities is the very definition of scepticism.

No, it's the ones that know these are alien crafts. Knowing without proof is as stupid as seeing without eyes or hearing without ears. Sure things can be inferred on a different level when you are missing a sense - but the actual act of sensing without the input for that sense is not possible.

The fruitloops that make wild claims which will never have supporting evidence only justifies my intolerance of them to a degree of absolute hatred. Religion had a purpose. It may have required blind acceptance and had more than a few punishments, be it social or even legal at some points, but it established trade routes, standards and common cultural norms.

Believing in one person's version of what UFOs are does nothing for society. There is no development at the end of the process. It's just a simple game of pretend that will end with the believer being out of pocket and potentially mentally unsound. It's a game with no winners.

Whilst myself and probably many others are genuinely intrigued by the notion of unidentified flying objects and work towards figuring them out - we're not doing it to help the helpless. We, as a species, have learned much about our universe and every god of the unknown has become academia and common enough knowledge.

If and when we know what UFOs are, or have been, then it won't be believers writing the books. It will be scientists and people making conclusions based on observations - verifiable by their peers or anyone with access to the research.

So while Billy-Bob and Mary-Sue can heehaw it up with a six pack and a camera and extol abuse at anyone who questions their claims - we will win in the end. And our children will laugh and make parodies of these idiots as we do now about those who thought that 4 elements made up existence, that witches floated or that the world was flat.

Use it as entertainment is my advise, and have fun at their expense.

-m0r

I totally agree that hard evidence is what I think most people long for but I'm going to play
Billy Bob and Mary Sue advocate here.Keep in mind that Billy and Mary could be anyone.
From an 8th grade drop out, hillybilly in Kentucky, Mexican in Mexico City,
all the way up to collage grads, doctors,lawyers,governors, military officers and astronauts.

OK it starts like this.

You put up your post on ATS and you end it by stating that all that was typed was done by you.
The conversation starts here:
ATS: prove you typed that post
Poster: What do you mean prove it? I know I typed it.
ATS: You knowing something is not proof.
Poster: I am a very credible person. Do a background check.
ATS: That means nothing. Scientist can be crazy.
Poster: Well my wife and kids were standing next to me when I did.
ATS: But that's not hard evidence.
Poster: I was having a family reunion at the time I was typing and there was about 100 people here that saw me.
ATS: A bunch of witnesses is not hard evidence.
Poster: There were several people who had digital and video cameras that caught me typing.
ATS: But that's not proof that you were typing this actual post.
Poster: A couple of the videos zoomed in and you can see the typing.
ATS: Yeah, it l looks like it, but the camera is shaking and the video keeps blurring in and out.
Poster: Check the the log at my ISP it will show that I was on ATS at the time of my posting.
ATS: Yeah, but that's just circumstantial evidence. That's not hard proof that it was you logged in. Much less typing. That's not hard evidence.

I'll stop here because I think everyone gets the point.
I know that so many are hoaxes. But I also feel so many are not. You know as the poster that you typed that post and nobody will believe you. The cameras, multiple witnesses and logs back you up, and nobody will believe you.
I think people should look at both sides of the microscope.

This is my first post ever, so be gentle.

How, Why, What, Where, Who !!!!!

We all want to know, There is SO much information, SO little time.

The only thing we seem to have, a degree, of control over is, How do we use that time??.

At least ATS and other sites like this have opened peoples eyes, that otherwise might have been closed.

Lets keep them open.

I'm kind of like you OP. Every couple of years I go through a UFO phase which lasts a few weeks where I look around the net for new UFO videos etc. Usually I just end up finding a whole bunch of blurry videos of little lights in the sky which really could be anything. Nothing really compelling at all.

This time though I actually found some good ones which are starting to make me curious about UFO's again. I'm sure everyone's here's probably seen them.

This documentary from South America was one of the better ones I've seen lately....
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by JohnieG
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

How do I create UFO Hoax?

My theory on hoaxers...they dated someone whom said they love them, only to find out it was a lie and they were using them..so, this is a subconscious punch back at the world for the deception they had to endure.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by JohnieG
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

How do I create UFO Hoax?

My theory on hoaxers...they dated someone whom said they love them, only to find out it was a lie and they were using them..so, this is a subconscious punch back at the world for the deception they had to endure.

I agree. I think there are alot of angry people in the world who enjoy projecting their negative energy. It's unfair but I dont think we ll ever be able to filter them out.

reply to post by Lynexon

there are those people who do nothing but disregard everythng

The best place to hide a truth is between two lies. When a person come out with a truth on an ET craft of it's inhabitants, government shills go to work fast. They used to just kill the messenger, but after Bill cooper and Phil Schnider, they back off that, murdered whistle-blowers turn into Folk Heroes, it seems.

reply to post by zorgon

Greeting to you Zorgon. I am a stanch believe in mind over matter, having used this technique many times in my life. Some call it prayer, some call it Magick, but basically it is mind over matter. You are absolutely correct that some celebrities used this method to get where they are today, and also some higher up CEOs and managers used it too. I have used this to create for myself a nice afterlife place, complete with all that I need and want. You can say this doesn't exist, it crazy talk, go ahead, it's your life, after all.

reply to post by m0r1arty

Mental illness, attention seeking behaviour and downright charlatan antics are far more likely causes for most of the stories of ET or even NWO claims.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but in many cases, "mental illness" is nothing but a way for a doctor to label and understand what the person is talking about. I will agree that what you say fits a small portion of humanity, but for the most part, when a human being sees something from another planet, they tend to talk about it, and report it.