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Originally posted by sara123123
reply to post by Uberlime
The schools were designed for the early industrialied era and have not changed much since. They are slow and boring and provide meaningless hoop jumping year in and year out. We need a whole different idea where we don't herd kids together to waste most of their time each day.
They kids are dysfunctional. The teachers are dysfunctional. And the administration is dysfunctional. Parents often try not to look at the mess or they get angry.
If the work was focused and consolidated, most kids could finish their school day in a couple of hours. The rest of the time is busy work and nonsense. There is no reason why everything from assignment to lectures and instructions can be put on the internet and accessed by the kids on their own. You should be able to interact with the teacher on appointment or in e-mail or chat.
But then when you talk about reforming the system to make sense and really teach kids and stop warping kids, you will find out the truth. The main purpose of public schools is to serve as baby sitting factories and social/political engineers.
Originally posted by sara123123
There is no reason why everything from assignment to lectures and instructions can be put on the internet and accessed by the kids on their own. You should be able to interact with the teacher on appointment or in e-mail or chat.
Originally posted by sara123123
reply to post by Uberlime
The schools were designed for the early industrialied era and have not changed much since. They are slow and boring and provide meaningless hoop jumping year in and year out. We need a whole different idea where we don't herd kids together to waste most of their time each day. They kids are dysfunctional. The teachers are dysfunctional. And the administration is dysfunctional. Parents often try not to look at the mess or they get angry.
If the work was focused and consolidated, most kids could finish their school day in a couple of hours. The rest of the time is busy work and nonsense. There is no reason why everything from assignment to lectures and instructions can be put on the internet and accessed by the kids on their own. You should be able to interact with the teacher on appointment or in e-mail or chat.
But then when you talk about reforming the system to make sense and really teach kids and stop warping kids, you will find out the truth. The main purpose of public schools is to serve as baby sitting factories and social/political engineers.
Originally posted by Brown Bear
I think it's past time to kill a few Sacred Cows with the truth which is always uncomfortable when heard by "People of the Lie."
Whew. Reading through this thread is brutal and seldom can so much dysfunction and outright ignorance be found in a single place. This is a Elephant Graveyard for psychologists and anthropologists and clearly proves that the people closest to the situation (and creating the problems: the students, teachers and parents) have neither the insight nor the intellect to even frame the questions... let alone answer them.
As for the students: I appreciate your point of view but be assured that the opinions children that have just come through Public School in America have NO value whatsoever... except perhaps as amusement. But very few of us are amused by you. Sightings of your shortcomings have preceded you for several generations now.
As for the teachers: In the fields that successfully produce things of value there's a saying, "it's a poor mechanic that blames his tools." And another, "people who can do, DO. People who CAN'T DO, teach." I invite everyone to reread these self-professed "teachers" comments and ask yourself if the quality of writing, and the quality of expressed thinking, reaches the level one would expect from University graduates?
Thus, it should be obvious that "teachers" that have never been anywhere, and never done anything... essentially have nothing to teach and little surprise that the students come out of the process as uneducated as them. Schools in America do not educate, they socialize, so why blame the kids for the resulting ignorance? They never had a chance... and never will. It's too late for them, and their parents as well.
Why would anyone expect that teachers who are "losers" themselves would produce "winners?" And why would anyone be surprised when the schools build losers? Especially when previous generations produced enough winners to make (and keep) America great. People that know nothing can teach nothing and that fact is that that's what happened.
Many participants in this thread are literally breaking their arms pointing fingers everywhere but at themselves, but for those of us that were actually educated there's no need to read about the 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' because we see right now before our eyes. And the reason for America's decline is clear, it's the people. Look in the mirror first.
Some years ago I returned to Grad School and taught at the college level. I was shocked at the levels of ignorance demonstrated by my students and now those idiots have college degrees and children even stupider than themselves. Clearly the handwriting was on the wall 20 years ago in the rush to the lowest common denominator.
Has anybody noticed the decline in IQ's in America in the past 40 years? Does anyone really think that fat stupid ugly crazy parents will produce anything other than the same in their children? In a country where 50% of people believe that war and torture is OK why would children would learn human values like honor and integrity? Or anything else for that matter. Or respect anything, including themselves.
I could write a dissertation on this kettle of fish but it stinks to High Heaven and frankly I don't care because nothing will change, it's gone too far; but anyone who has studied history knows why this has happened and also knows how other societies approached an obvious problem. But the Monkeys aren't interested and I don't want to be abused by them so I can't say any more.
edit on 17-1-2011 by Brown Bear because: to add insult to injury
Originally posted by Brown Bear
reply to post by Anttyk47
Lady, I'd say you pretty well described yourself to a T and hopefully many like you will respond so that real people with real educations (and real brains) can see the value of your words and thoughts as I predict your points will prove mine.
Have at it.
As for the students: I appreciate your point of view but be assured that the opinions of children that have just come through Public School in America have NO value whatsoever... except perhaps as amusement. But very few of us are amused by you. Sightings of your shortcomings have preceded you for several generations now.
As for the teachers: In fields that successfully produce things of value there's a saying, "it's a poor mechanic that blames his tools." And another, "people who can do, DO. People who CAN'T DO, teach." I invite everyone to reread these self-professed "teachers" comments and ask yourself if the quality of writing, and the quality of expressed thinking, reaches the level one would expect from University graduates?
Thus, it should be obvious that "teachers" that have never been anywhere, and never done anything... essentially have nothing to teach and little surprise that the students come out of the process as uneducated as them.
Why would anyone expect that teachers who are "losers" themselves would produce "winners?" And why would anyone be surprised when the schools build losers? Especially when previous generations produced enough winners to make (and keep) America great. People that know nothing can teach nothing and that fact is part of what happened.
Some years ago I returned to Grad School and taught at the college level. I was shocked at the levels of ignorance demonstrated by my students and now those idiots have college degrees and children even stupider than themselves. Clearly the handwriting was on the wall 20 years ago and the rush to the lowest common denominator was clear.
Has anybody noticed the decline in IQ's in America in the past 40 years? Does anyone really think that fat stupid ugly crazy parents will produce anything other than the same in their children? In a country where 50% of people believe that war and torture is OK why would children learn human values like honor and integrity? Or anything else for that matter? Or respect anything, including themselves.
I could write a dissertation on this kettle of fish but it stinks to High Heaven and frankly I don't care because nothing will change, it's gone too far; but anyone who has studied history knows why this has happened and also knows how other societies approached an all too obvious problem. But the Monkeys aren't interested and I don't want to be abused by them so I can't say more.
Originally posted by sara123123
reply to post by 2manyquestions
I can not explain why our schools are socially dysfunctional, whereas other societies have managed to make the classrooms work as you have experienced. All I know is that our schools are dysfunctional and have been since the early 80's and all our efforts to improve them have failed. We need to change. I have my theories as to what has happened but these arguments - never ending battles of social and political ideology and education theory - have proven useless in fixing the problem of dysfunction.
About kids doing work on their own, homeschool classrooms might be able to teach you something about this. In most homeschool you are free for more ejoyable activities (sports, field trips, shopping, friend visiting, music lessons, art classes and projects, drama activities, cooking, etc.) once you have completed your work correctly for the day and demonstrated you understand your lessons to your teacher. If the child wants to lag and mess around, he does not get to do a lot of fun and interesting activities available to him. All incentive is to focus your intention and mind, master your lessons and move on with the other kids. So you can do your school work in two hours or ten hours - it's up to you. The children who are having trouble get the individual or small group attention they need and the kids who are finished move onto other special interest activies they choose to do. There is no busy work. Only the meat of the subject matter for learning and mastering the subject matter is presented for the kids to do.
As a teacher, you might come up with your own ideas of how this kind of change could work out for the kids, teachers and parents. But leaving the system in it's current state is absolutely abusive of everyone in the United States.
Originally posted by Brown Bear
Hello Folks,
Just wanted to let you know that I am reading all the comments and will respond in due time.
Unfortunately it seems possible that this thread has run its course so I suggest that another thread be started in which I will attempt to respond in a more personal manner on first come first served basis.
I threw out a lot of hooks in my previous post with the intention of snagging Bottom Fish while anyone with reasonable intelligence and a historical perspective should be able to read between the lines.
It's past time in this country to call a Spade a Spade regardless of whatever the lemmings insist is otherwise and I will respond to any intelligent position, and laugh at the rest.
I will admit surprise that so many youngsters read ATS but now realize that that explains why so many ATS'ers postings appear immature, poorly written, and half-baked.
So there you go... I have learned something from this thread beyond the obvious about which I've already commented.
Go for it. Have at it.
Originally posted by Brown Bear
Hello Folks,
Just wanted to let you know that I am reading all the comments and will respond in due time.
Unfortunately it seems possible that this thread has run its course so I suggest that another thread be started in which I will attempt to respond in a more personal manner on first come first served basis.
I threw out a lot of hooks in my previous post with the intention of snagging Bottom Fish while anyone with reasonable intelligence and a historical perspective should be able to read between the lines.
It's past time in this country to call a Spade a Spade regardless of whatever the lemmings insist is otherwise and I will respond to any intelligent position, and laugh at the rest.
I will admit surprise that so many youngsters read ATS but now realize that that explains why so many ATS'ers postings appear immature, poorly written, and half-baked.
So there you go... I have learned something from this thread beyond the obvious about which I've already commented.
Go for it. Have at it.