Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

reply to post by brettrix


Yes, the officer may ask you to step out of the car and pat you down for weapons for his on protection. If the backpack is within your reach, called "lunge area" then the officer may search it.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Badgered1


great understanding, ty

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
State Troopers - The biggest jerk wads of all time.

...you may be right about those you've encountered but i've had the opposite experience... when i was a route trucker, back in the 90s, saw a lot of idiots behind the wheel and passed by a lot of horrible wrecks...

...twice i was in the position where i had to stay at the scene because the wreck happened in front of me... the troopers that showed up on those two deals were super...

...one deal was that a pickup flipped multiple times as it was racing down a hill... i figured they were going close to 100mph... 4 adults in the cab... 7 kids in the bed of the pickup, who got slung every which way... everybody died... by the time the troopers got there, i had held back the need to cry like a baby for as long as i could... they were very patient and polite...

...the other deal was that a corvette tried to exit the interstate by going under the trailer of the rig in front of me... that was the last stupid thing that idiot ever did... i didnt cry that time... i was very angry... again, the troopers that talked to me were patient, polite, totally understanding of my fury at being stuck with another horrid view that i'd never forget...

...i've been pulled over for little things, like a blown-out headlamp or turn signal, lots of times... never got a ticket for any of it and that wasnt just because i'm adorable... i appreciated the heads-up and they appreciated being appreciated...

...i was 44 when i got my first ticket (and the only one so far)... got it in louisana - local deputy... after he walked back to his cruiser, i cried cuz it really hurt my feelin's, even though i was speeding and deserved the ticket... he came back up to my window and asked me how long i intended to sit there... i said, "til i get through cryin - you gonna write me a ticket for that?"... he said, "no mam" and walked away but sat there until i got back on the road... i called him bad names all the way home and that was a REALLY LONG way...

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
I left the career because I got tired of the rampant politics, back biting, corruption, and constitutional infringements that were present in every department (over 30 different departments in the are I live).

...i cant think of one profession that isnt polluted...

reply to post by seeashrink



well How about this one Seashrink


This Happen right near where i Live


What Happens In this Situation

Pulling Over a Couple (Senior Citizens -Tourist) On a Moped in a Suspicion Probable Cause then trying to find some Other Fault To lay a Ticket/Charge On.

These Couple as there are Perfectly Legal and Their Rights were Violated as to which Officers did not have a Clue what to Charge Them for.. but The Couple were Held over a period of time .. Well The Area Is Near the Border of Canada and alot of Stuff goes On More so since what happen on Sept 11th 2001 and Suspicion is Constant ... Now ! .. as It was More at Ease on Both side of the Fence ...


The Massena, NY Moped Bust of 2009 Revisited


I Guess all of there Reputation Has been damaged Especially with this Video

reply to post by seeashrink


No it is a means of taxation. People can pass the test, and then go out and drive like idiots; and most of them do.

I've been hit by idiots in cars walking around town numerous times. These impatient morons behind the wheel passes the system's tests just fine. In practice these tests are little more than a cash grab and forced worship of the system. I personally drove fine without a license because things work different here in canada; graduated licensing is apparently the socialist mechanism to milk even more money out of people who just want a means towards prosperity (the job market is quite closed to people who don't), I decided that evaluating people over years is wrong when they could just put something in my car to monitor the way that I drive and base their decision off of real data. When I see asian drivers conducting 10 point turns in a 3 point turn spot, it makes me wonder how the hell they got their license? And when I see cops driving they seldomly ever follow the law they never set a good example and will do all sorts of things such as running through stop signs and lights without throwing their cherries on.

Let me tell you something bud, I lost my respect for cops when they started to turn into glorified meter maids and when they focus on busting people for victimless crimes. I have no respect for the establishment when everyone out there is a terrorist excluding them, the very group of people setting the laws and then breaking them in the worst ways possible. Your government is the terrorist, they are being help economic hostage by china and the united nations communist body. It is your job as a cop to uphold the law, so instead of busting someone for smoking a joint, or busting someone for not paying their taxes, you should go and start busting politicians for treason when they blatantly violate the constitution. The founding principles of freedom are at risk and yet the police, whom are supposed to be our representation when it comes to enforcing such violations to be prosecuted under the law, are allowing the system to continue to engage in what I can say is visible manipulation and fraud which you can learn all about just by following the daily "new speak" from main stream media. I would hope that you are an oath keeper, and that you remain vigilant in the knowledge that throughout american history britian has tried to usurp your freedom away, and now, it seems the united nations is and will do anything possible to force everyone into it. If I see blue UN hats invading my streets, I hope you would do the same, I am going to assume an invasive occupation even if my sell-out leaders think it's a good idea to let them do that; and I will defend my land and liberty with everything I've got. UN or foreign occupation has no place in my land, and neither does world government. I have enough problems with the FEDS, and even more with their BS make-belief monopoly money they print off based on debt.

If you are a cop, I suggest you do us all a favor and show your coworkers the frauds and scammers who are corrupting the system and issuing the orders. You sound reasonable, how much do you want your children to live in a sanitized police state? Your government is totally off it's rocker, I don't know how you can work for that band of criminal social engineers, genocidal eugenicists and green fascists whom are all filthy rich and whom all think the best way to run a society is to make everyone poor by taxing the hell out of them so that they can continue to live even more lavish jet-setting lifestyles on our backs. If you think your job is to bust people, by all means be a cop and do your job -- but if your job is to be a part of the community you work in and represent the best of your people and to try and improve it, you best be arresting the politicians, corporate management, owners and elitists.

PS. The cops always say they are looking for a similar vehicle -- then when you call the cops and ask if there is an APB for a similar vehicle to yours, you find out that there is none -- it was their excuse to just run people through random 4th amendment violating nazi procedures. Not saying that you do it; I would hope not; though my point is why aren't the cops out there busting the real criminals? Why is it always a petty blue collar crime goes more noticed than the more-often-than not white collar crime? Why is it when a business steals from me it is a civil offense, but when I steal from them it is a criminal offense? --here's a hint-- this is what the district of criminals want, the same thing as the criminals in my government want, rig the system to favor increased consolidation and regulation. Kill all the small businesses because big mega monopolies are easier to regulate within the borders (because they simply go to china to do all of the bad things they want), and this increased control isn't about anything other than closing the barred cage in on your average citizen. I would hope that your time spent here at ats has opened your eyes to all of the things going on in your country, because what your country is doing is going to hurt every country on the face of this planet.

I hope you join us all when one day we get so little for work that we all just uniformly tell the system to piss off, we can do much better reforming the communities and family units the government has worked tirelessly to destroy. You cops need to start putting the law-makers in place because they are destroying freedom and democracy and replacing it with communism re-packaged and branded as socialism to those that notice and pawned off as democracy to the rest of those whom are entirely entranced by the BS that is the system.

These crooks take your money, saying they'll give you something back, but when you come to collect the rules always change to their favor. Stop representing these scum. All of you cops have the power to do your job as upstanding members of the community; how many of you actually do? How many of you will send someone to jail for years for smoking a joint or doing a line when it is their own health they are putting at risk -- I draw the line when I see a needle junkie flopping around on a sidewalk -- in other countries they shoot them and dispose of their bodies but we have to tolerate these useless scumbag people, pay for their habits and put up with their social problems. The law has things entirely backwards just look at the results on your streets. Things have changed from the era the babyboomers grew up, reality used to be a great place and people used to mostly be trustworthy and moral; whatever happened to those days and what a grand string of idiots in charge it takes to screw that entirely up? Can you believe this crap? Go out and arrest the politicians that openly called for mr. assange's death -- the letter of the law must have something in it regarding calls by leaders for his assassination -- it is hardly appropriate behavior for a civilized society. I feel sorry for you, I wouldn't want to be put in a position to pick between the food on my table and hurting the people I share this world with. You fully well know how the system works, how they have cops investigate cops and more often than not direct efforts to get the law breaking cops out of trouble rather than help victims. You should honestly stop listening to the letter of their corrupt law and stick with your morals and what you feel in your gut. Do what is right, and teach others in your department their duty not to the state but to the people whom they all supposedly serve.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by GenerationXisMarching

 

I don't know where Hamilton County is but it sounds like it's time to move. If I'm getting the whole story you have a bunch of crazies on the force. Go to the newspaper, tv station or something. Again, maybe time to find a less crazy place to live.
Seeashrink

its in indiana. i honestly believe its because we are in a low-crime area but have had such a massive influx of police, so they are basicly competing with eachother to to get the few people who ARE breaking the law. i agree that moving is the sansible thing to do, but it IS essentially running away. so i can run away, or i can kowtow, but what happens when i just want things to be fair? why do the officers have to have a quota, and why is the quota not lower in an area with high police saturation. it gives more benefits to the "bad cops" than it does the good, and put in this situation, i believe that a good cop will be forced to find anything as grounds for arrest or probation. so i would love to move, but going from the ghetto of beech grove to one of the richest counties in the midwest was a big move for me, but in recent years its getting rediculously frustrating

i dont want to run. i want the cops to be able to serve and protect without being forced to serve and protect a certain number of people per month, this creates competition, and in our great capitalist world, competition will eventually breed shortcuts, cheaters.

when this happens, no matter how polite the stopped is, its still all about money and not losing their job.
its to the point where they have to manufacture crimes, or have you get scared into committing a crime (lying to a police officer)

all in all, i just want to point out that a high-density police force in a low-crime area is the perfect place for a corrupt cop, as you need to become corrupted to survive. there are just some areas where these tips will not help you at all. there is no way to fight them, bc they will win, dirty tricks or not

the fact is, you can think that all of these tips will help you out, or that walking has a lower chance of being stopped, but if they really want you arrested bad enough it is well in their jurisdiction. there is really nothing you can do untill you've already had a terrible experience or spent a good amount of time in jail or spent thousands in legal fees, or get tazed. even then there is no garunteed justice, because they all get paid from the money they get for arresting and convicting

. frankly, being a teenager in this town would be the worst because the majority have no idea how to deal with police, so only have the cops words to go on. because of this there are many arrests that can be easily avoided, but cops can lie to you, you cant lie to them. teens are easy prey, and police know very well that probation gets exponentially more money than jail-time and they know its unlikely they will be able to fight it at all, and will get a default ruling.

as a judge, do you listen to the defenses lawyer, or do you listen to the officer that goes out to collect the money you get paid every other week? what happens if the defense wins a settlement, the money they would recieve would be the same money you get your salary from. i know it isnt this way for all of the judges, but here in hamilton county the police control the courts and there is nothing we can do about it

well.. we can run away, i guess
im an hour away from downtown indianapolis, yet the "ghetto" downtown has 375 less police officers, and here in hamilton county with such a lower crime rate than indy, i just dont realize why the hell they are attributing more cops to less crime because when there starts becoming less crime they have to go somewhere else, make up crimes, or lose their job

very good s&f for you!!

reply to post by seeashrink


comply and live another day

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


if you are true, encourage your fellow workers to be decent human beings, remind them if their mother was arrested, how would it feel, police people must 'feel' and step back a little bit.in england the media says police have 'targets'to reach, is this true, if so you hurt/arrest someone just for your paycheck?

while i realise most of this was talking bout trafic stops heres 1 or 2 of my own...

one night i was driving along at about 2 am and nearing home...i noticed headlights coming fast up behind me so i slowed down and indicated to let the driver know they could overtake me....it turned out to be a police car that had been chasing me and struggling to keep up for the last 8 miles!!
he got out of the car raging and shouting but after explaining why i had been out at that time and hw shattered i was he let me off with a horti ( produce documents within a week ) and remembered me to drive safe...when i took my documents to the police station the officer that checked my documents asked if i got pulled over by a hero cop that had nothing on me so gave me the horti....i told him what happened and he replied that he knows there are idiots as he has to work along side them....


then again on a night out someone hit a friend of mine....i stepped in and told him whr to go....got jumped on by him and his friends....i fought through a couple of them when i felt a hand on my shoulder, i turned round and punched then beadbutted the next person next to them presuming it was still the crowd that jumped me....unfortunatly it was the police....i got taken to the police station where i subsequently recieved my newely reshaped nose 5 stitches and several bruises, i was then fined thereafter for the privellage

soi only drink at home and give the respect im given ...

Originally posted by anumohi
reply to post by seeashrink

 

comply and live another day

Bank robbers encourage that you do the same.

Originally posted by maxinsurrey
reply to post by seeashrink

 

IMHO you are in error, do you need a piece of paper to use a washing machine, a lawn mower? it (the car legislation) is just tax, make it special (freedom) tax it.. control it....avert thee satan (not you the poster- the control behind it)

Anything to fight the system in terms of taxation, sure. Agreed. On the flip side...
Can you operate your washing machine without risking the lives of countless other people in the immediate vicinity within reason?
Can you use your washing machine or lawn mower as a useful tool to escape robbing ANYTHING...

It's not always about the taxes. Safety first.

Like the OP said earlier...you think people should just drive on whatever side of the road they feel like driving on that day? Or stop when they feel like it at intersections? Use crosswalks as target practice?

Within reason, MOST laws and licenses are supposed to exist to protect those of you who are smart enough to pass the tests, and meet the requirements from those who aren't.

reply to post by seeashrink


I am sorry but ALL cops are NOTHING more than "POLICY ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS", they are NOT legal "Common Law" enforcement officers. I could recite hundreds of thousands of court cases which point out that the "police powers" are subordinate TO the people and not OVER the people.

Legal Definition of TORT
A tort is a type of civil wrong for which a person adversely affected or injured thereby can claim
damages. Damages are sums of money, awarded by a court to compensate a person for loss or
harm resulting from civil wrongs, including torts. A person seeking damages in the courts is the
plaintiff, and the person against whom the plaintiff makes a claim is the defendant. A person who
commits a tort is known as a tortfeasor. If the court determines that the defendant’s tort has
caused the plaintiff to suffer loss or harm, then the defendant is deemed legally responsible or
liable to compensate the plaintiff. More than one tortfeasor may be involved in contributing to a
tort. Joint tortfeasors are responsible for the same wrongful act which results in a tort.

If you have been stopped by a police officer and there is NO injured party and NO damaged property and you have violated NO ONE elses rights, then there IS no crime and the officer has committed a TORT. Sue the city and the officer.

From the 20 Facts all Americans should know...
15. It is not the duty of the police to protect you. Their job is to protect the
Corporation and arrest code breakers. Sapp v. Tallahasse, 348 So. 2nd 363,
Reiff v. City of Philadelphia, 477 F. Supp. 1262, Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of 376 S.E. 2nd. 247.

That pretty much says it ALL. NEVER trust a cop. Not that all cops are bad but NEVER trust them, NEVER give them a name, you are entering into a corporate contract with them and then they derive jurisdiction by your consent of giving up the corporate fiction name. It's all about control and WE the PEOPLE have it and the corporate city/state want to take it away.

"With regard particularly to the U.S. Constitution, it is elementary that a Right secured or
protected by that document cannot be overthrown or impaired by any state police
authority." --Connolly vs. Union Sewer Pipe Co.184 US 540

"The claim & exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."
-- Miller vs. U.S., F486, 489

It is undisputed that the use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is NOT a
mere PRIVILEGE, but a "COMMON AND FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT" of which the public and
individuals cannot rightfully be deprived. (Emphasis added) See: Chicago Motor Coach v.
Chicago, supra; Ligare v. Chicago, 28 N.E. 934; Boone v. Clark, 214 S.W. 607; American
Jurisprudence 1st Ed., Highways 163

More cases which PROVE that you do not NEED to "register" your auto nor do you need a license to operate private property...

"The right of a citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property
thereon in the ordinary course of life and business is a common right which he has
under his right to enjoy life and liberty.... It includes the right in so doing to use the
ordinary and usual conveyances of the day; and under existing modes of travel
includes the right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or wagon thereon, or to operate an
automobile thereon for the usual and ordinary purposes of life and business. It is not
a mere privilege, like the privilege of moving a house in the street, operating a business
stand in the street, or transporting persons or property for hire along the street, which the
city may permit or prohibit at will."

Key emphasis added. Indisputable wisdom recorded in Thompson v. Smith, 154 S.E. 579, 1929.

IN RE BARNES
United States District Court,
D Maine, September 15, 1972
Bankruptcy No. BK 72-129ND, No. EK 72-13OND

[9109] Consumer goods - automobile for transportation to and from work.

The use of a vehicle by its owner for purposes of traveling to and from his employment is a
personal, as opposed to a business use, as that term is used in UCC § 9-109(l), and the
vehicle will be classified as consumer goods rather than equipment.

The phraseology of § 9-109(2) defining equipment as goods used or bought for use primarily in
business seems to contemplate a distinction between the use of collateral "in business" and the
mere use of the collateral for some commercial, economic or income-producing purpose by one
not engaged "in business."

The appropriate filing place turns upon the classification of the collateral as consumer goods or
equipment. The Uniform Commercial Code classifies goods as consumer goods
". . . if they are used or bought for use primarily for personal, family or household
purposes. (2). Fn (2) 11 MRSA § 9-109(1).

It is the court's opinion that the use of a vehicle by its owner for purposes of traveling to and
from his employment is a "personal," as opposed to a business use, as that term is used in
UCC § 9-109 (1). The phraseology of UCC § 9-109 (2), defining "equipment" as goods used or
bought for use primarily "in business" seems to contemplate a distinction between the use of
collateral "in business," and the mere use of the collateral for some commercial, economic or
income-producing purpose by one not engaged "in business."

And the FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN!!!!!!

"A vehicle not used for commercial activity is a "consumer goods", . . . it is NOT a
type of vehicle required to be registered and "use tax" paid of which the tab is
evidence of receipt of the tax." Bank of Boston vs Jones, 4 UCC Rep. Serv. 1021, 236
A2d 484, UCC PP 9-109.14.

"Thus self-driven vehicles are classified according to the use to which they are put
rather than according to the means by which they are propelled." Ex Parte Hoffert,
148 NW 20.

“The Supreme Court, in Arthur v. Morgan, 112 U.S. 495, 5 S.Ct. 241, 28 L.Ed. 825, held
that carriages were properly classified as household effects, and we see no reason that
automobiles should not be similarly disposed of.” Hillhouse v United States, 152 F. 163,
164 (2nd Cir. 1907).

“A soldier's personal automobile is part of his ``household goods[.]'' U.S. v Bomar,
C.A.5(Tex.), 8 F.3d 226, 235” 19A Words and Phrases - Permanent Edition (West)
pocket part 94.

So there you have it folks, the police powers are under YOUR jurisdiction UNTIL you give them a name, then it is a contract and THEY, being corporate security guards, have the power to enforce corporate regulations and ordinances.

Time to wake up to the fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is another video on how to deal with cops. One of the people speaking is Mr. James Daune who is a former defense lawyer. There is also a second part where a former police officer gives his view on dealing with the cops.

The video is very interesting and i think quite helpful.

To sum up:

1) Comply with the cop's instructions

2) Don't give the cop any reason to feel he's in danger

3) Remember and document details if there's been any wrong action committed

Pretty much what I do on the rare occasion I'm stopped. (and it's gotten me off with just a warning a few times).

I only got argumentative once that I recall (because I was right, and he was wrong), but even then, I was polite about it. I just tried to explain my case (to avoid embarrassing the guy in court). He didn't bite, but, when the case came up in traffic court, he took one look at my diagrams and pics, and wisely chose to dismiss the charge.

Would have been like a $500+ ticket too (speeding in a school zone).... Thing is though, my road comes out AFTER the sign showing the school zone, or the signals it's active...and since there weren't other cars (or students), I didn't know (had no way TO know)... My photos of the site would have proven this, and he knew it... Oh well. All's well that ends well.

The best advice I ever got for handling police officers is "Yes Sir, No Sir", Hands at 10 and 2 at all times, and ask for permission or make the officer aware that you are going to reach for something.

Oh, and keep any edibles in close range. Don't make any movements that the car behind you (cop) would be able to see / distinguish.

Thanks for the info OP

Here is another interesting perspective on talking to the police...

reply to post by seeashrink


Whoa stlsteve! I have seen a lot of innocent people go to jail that were not lying and somebody else actually did leave stuff in the vehicle and the driver did not know.

Originally posted by lastrebel

But when even the good cops say the best way to react is with complete subservience like medieval serf or something it makes you wonder just what there mindset is.

We are not a nation of serfs or slaves that need to bow and grovel under the eyes of our betters..........we are a nation of freemen with the right to do as we damn well please as long as we arent harming anyone else. We should be free to move about without being harressed just because we fit some profile or because some x schooll bully has had a bad day

I didn't see anyone calling for citizens to act with "subservience" or to grovel. What I saw was someone asking citizens to behave like adults, and lose the attitude. If that's "subservient" or "groveling", I'm glad I don't live in your world. It must get terribly exciting far too often, and unnecessarily so, with all those shoulder chips flying around.

YOU control the encounter in most cases, assuming you can keep your head and not fling unnecessary attitude. That's not being "subservient" or "groveling" by any stretch of the imagination. Matter of fact, flinging attitude generally shows YOUR insecurity and lack of control, same as it does for the cop.

There certainly are times when attitude is called for. Most police encounters are not one of those times. Wisdom is in knowing when and when not to throw it down.

YOU control the situation. The key is in not letting the cop get the feeling that you are doing so.

That will make HIM throw attitude, to regain control. Then you have just severely limited your own options.

Unfortunately, we're not supposed to label. However, some of my observations are:
1) They're up against a budget, they're going to take you when they can, unless you're a hot chick and they think that maybe they'll run across u later.
2) You're f'd in any situation, they'll lie to protect the integrity they need and crave. Due to our legal system, cops can't be questioned, that would turn everything upside down.
3) I've known cops that smoke weed and arrest people for the same.
4) I've told the truth and they hold it against me, why should I not try to lie?
5) My job is stressful, but I'd be fired for acting as they do.
6) They are insecure, they need the job, that's why they are there.
7) Did I mention all law enforcement has to be right in any situation they arrive in or they get reprimanded?

I pay alot of taxes, I've never been to jail, I've had 3 traffic violations in my 40 yrs, I'm a foster parent (see #7), I don't roll in the hood, I do my absolute best to positively contribute to society.

They crush me and let mass murderers get away, ala AZ. Figure out your role, your job and do it better gov't boys...

I've seen alot of asshole cops for no reason. I understand that some components of their job is tough, but I have lost all repsect.