Dealing with cops, understanding your rights,.... by a cop.

reply to post by hapablab

No, you are not compelled to give the officer your I.D. without good reason if you are just on the street or in a store, whatever. If the officer approaches you and says "You match the discription of someone we are looking for, may I see your i.d."? Then he has articulated a reason for the request and you may want to show it to him. Even this example is a gray area. There is certainly nothing wrong with asking the officer "why" and if he cannot give a good reason, then refuse, it's your right.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Blazer


As many of us are on the quest to overcome our worst enemy, which is conformity and silence, there are times and places where individuals may simply not understand what you are saying and immediately notify higher authorities to investigate a possible threat.

Many of us are afraid to voice our opinions of how we truly feel about our government anywhere other than forums like ATS. I've always grown up to believe that you must always question authority no matter the circumstance because the day you kneel down and accept for everything they have to say or do as acceptable is the day we lose our great fight to truly live in a free nation.

I've voiced my opinions to most individuals I know or randomly meet. I'm never afraid to face the ramifications and feel that I must take every opportunity to spread the good word.

Some feel differently in that we must be careful as to what we have to say because one day they may come knocking on your front door asking you the very questions they asked me this morning. Let this not steer you away from fighting to good fight. Hatred and violence will only provoke more hatred and violence. I'm a firm believer in dialogue between our government officials and the American People and we should steer no further from that.

An individual caught wind of what I had to say one day and decided to report me to the FBI not knowing what else to do because they simply did not understand what I was trying to say. Yes, there are crazy whack-jobs out there so you never know when you may run into the next one. I for one am not one of those crazy whack-jobs so I was more than happy to meet with the FBI this morning and treated them with the same respect they treated me with.

They asked the same general questions that they'd ask anyone. Was I prone to violence? Have I ever made any threats? Did I plan on harming anyone? Did I own a gun? Does my place of work issue me a gun? All general questions that I was more than happy to answer. I've never been in a confrontation where it didn't end with words. I've never provoked any kind of fight in my life. I don't own a gun but I know that I am able to exercise that right. I've never made a threat in my life and I never planned on harming anyone.

We then went on to further discussion on my personal views of the government and how I felt about the policies set in place. I let them know that I didn't agree with a lot that was going on but that if anyone didn't like what I had to say that they didn't have to listen. I brought up ATS and how Gifford's shooter just so happened to be a member of before the shootings. I let them know that this website in no way shape or form incited any kind of threats or violence that was caused that day. I went on to say that we as an online community did not condone such behavior and that we are a very collaborative resource into the many events going on around not only our nation, but our world.

Guns don't kill people, People kill people and just because his nut was in possession of a firearm doesn't make the ownership of weapons potentially deadly in no way, shape or form. We as a nation have the right to bear arms and the exercise of that right is of utmost importance. Without protection from crazy individuals such as Loughner and from our very own government, we'd be overrun by many criminals including the ones running this very country.

I personally brought up the Patriot Act and the Privacy of the People and their daily activities including the internet. Many valid points arose that even they had no choice but to agree with me on. I believe that they were not only speaking to me as FBI Agents, but as true human beings that could see the wrong from the right and hopefully if our worst fears ever came true that they knew which side they'd be on.

I post this reply because there are many individuals that abuse their position in power but the FBI Agents that I met up with today brought some real insight into those individuals who truly believe in the betterment of this country. Not all people in positions of power abuse their power and not all people of america hate those people. Only through dialogue can we accomplish what we truly believe in and that is the freedom to continue fighting for what we truly believe in.

reply to post by GenerationXisMarching

I don't know where Hamilton County is but it sounds like it's time to move. If I'm getting the whole story you have a bunch of crazies on the force. Go to the newspaper, tv station or something. Again, maybe time to find a less crazy place to live.
Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


I hate all cops.

I remember one time a cop stopped me, With out too much detail he could have arrested me but didnt AND gave me my good stuff back if you know what i mean even though I WAS THE ONE BEING AN ASS. No fine or nothing


You my freind haha YOU WERE THAT COP.

At least from this post i know there are still some good ones left.

Great post. "Retired" ish here.

Pretty much the standard in terms of advice for our country too. *(Canada) There is no ass kissing asked for, for sure. But remembering manners usually helps your situation with a good cop, and doesn't aggravate it when dealing with a bad one.

The biggest thing to remember is that we are people too. Training doesn't make us super human. This is not an excuse, but a fact. Robots would be unforgiving and would not let you off with a "warning". So being human does have its ups and downs.

I do believe training is a huge issue. I've often thought, especially with the new recruits, that they should have to be partnered for 1 year with a senior officer. But they don't get a sidearm or taser. Learn to deal with people with your brain and mouth. That is your greatest tool. This would help many situations immensely.

reply to post by sapien82

All of this freeman stuff and inalienable rights stuff is great but unfortunately is not recognized in a court of law.
Seeashrink

reply to post by GenerationXisMarching


If you are walking down the street minding your own business there's no grounds for a search. Exceptions to this is a known drug area and you are loitering or you are in an area where a crime was recently committed. At any rate the officer should be able to articulate to you and in a court of law as to why he stopped and/or searched you.
Seeashrink

very informative. S+F

i drive a trans am and get pulled over every night i happen to be driving after 10pm. my woman thinks it's because there is probably a known drug dealer with the same color car out there. but it gets to be frustrating when you keep running into the same a-holes who stopped you a day or 2 before.

i am always respectful and because of that it has gotten me out of a few tickets (or so they claim).

the OP is right. before you lose your cool listen and be polite and just stick it out. complain later

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by jeh2324

 

You know son, some people will just not let you be nice. I've already forgotten more about law enforcement than you will ever know and that includes constitutional rights. I'm also a ten year military veteran and an Oath Keeper. I suspect that there is no pleasing you on any subject.
Seeashrink

Sorry Shrink I thought you were replying to my post when yours popped up.

I'm not a ground combat vet
but I was in Saudi for "desert storm"
I've got an Oathkeepers card in the wallet too.
count me as RETIRED USAF..."Son".
I have always respected Marines, got a few in the family and a few drinkin' buddies. But where does getting the crap kicked out of you by 10 "hardened combat Marines" come in the patrol officers handbook?

edit on 14-1-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

I'm confused about this post. What you quoted was not addressed to you so sorry if I offended.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Erica1631

My department has not been contacted by DHS to my knowledge. The things that went on in New Oleans were frightening to say the least. This is hard to answer, but my gut tells me to comply and live to fight another day. I don't even like my own answer here.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by StlSteve

 

Yes! I said "be honest, it goes a long way". But thanks for reinforcing the point. We have heard it all and its amazing how people think that they are the first to come up with the lie they are telling.
Thanks for the reply.
Seeashrink

Cops have seen it all, and heard it all, so many times from so many people, that they can usually see a lie coming before you open your mouth to tell it. I've seen situations where a guy was going to try to lie his way out, and the cop pre-empted the lie simply by saying "DON'T you lie to me" when he saw it coming, and got civil results - and the truth of the matter.

The only time I've ever been arrested was by a first-year cop. Many, if not most, cops are sort of badge heavy in their first year or so. I chalk it up to insecurity, and an overly aggressive attempt to gain control that they aren't confident yet that they have. Shrinks say that a certain percentage are just bad seeds, but not most. For most, it's just a confidence issue which they haven't had enough time on the job to develop yet.

In my case, the arrest was as much my fault as his, though. I'd just come back from one of my "trips", had a rucksack and a duffle bag in the trunk, along with some equipment. Still had the airline tags on 'em. The cop pulled me over for a sticker violation - the car had been sitting in a lot for a few weeks, and I'd not yet had time to get it back up to spec. Well, then he wanted to search the car. I thought it a bit odd to search for a sticker violation, but had nothing to hide, so I told him where my M9 was, and said he could have at it.

Mistake one.

He got all sorts of excitable, told me how he'd had guns pulled on him, blah, blah, blah. I wasn't a stranger to seeing the business end of a gun, so took that in stride, but his attitude after that was getting to me - which I should have never allowed to happen.

Mistake two.

Finally, after he'd carried on about it at length, I got exasperated and said "look, if I'd any intent of shooting you, or even pulling a gun, I'd sure as hell not told you where to find it. It's in YOUR possession now, not mine, so relax."

Mistake three. At that point he was feeling like I had more control than him, since I issued the order.

Then I threw out the kicker. Being pretty ill myself at that point, I said "I bet you ain't been a cop 6 months, and would piss yourself if a gun were drawn on you".

Mistake four.

Wasn't long after that I found myself wearing a cute new pair of bracelets, sitting in the cruiser as the search continued, and when he found maps, and most especially a ski mask (the place I'd been was COLD - the airline tags proved that), well, it was off to the station we went!

Gotta hand it to him, though. After we'd calmed down and were talking on the way to the station, he didn't charge me with near what he could have. The judge threw the whole thing out on the DA's recommendation, anyhow.

Keep in mind that this was all pre-9/11, so he wasn't thinking "terrorist" as much as he was "bank robber", and the maps had him all sorts of confused about even that. The officers were all very cordial when I went to the property section after the trial to get all of my "evidence" back. No problems at all.

My point is, escalation ain't always on the doorstep of the officer, even if he IS new and even if he IS badge heavy. You treat them like people, you'll generally see the same in return.

I've even had officers recommend to the judge that charges be reduced - like a State Trooper in VA, nabbed me doing 85 in a 55. Could have took my license right there. We talked while he was writing me up, and he reduced it on the spot to 74 in a 55 to preserve my license, then told the judge that he thought it ought to be reduced to "improper equipment" at the hearing, since I was such a nice guy and didn't give him any trouble at all. The judge reduced it, I paid my fine for a non-moving violation, and drove off keeping a closer eye on the speedometer.

I believe that when dealing with law enforcement, look to the badge to see who's in charge there, but look to the man behind the badge for interaction. Those simple rules have never failed me except when I ignored them, whichever side of the situation I was on at the time. People are people, and you get what you give. Once you get a feel for what control REALLY is, you realize that going over the top to try to maintain it counts as a LOSS of control in reality.

Takes a lot of cops a year or so of OJT to figure that out, and a certain small percentage never do, or never want to. Can't react to ALL of 'em as if they were in that minority.

It's always good to hear a cop's point of view. I have several members of my family that are cops.
But still...when I get pulled over for "suspicious activity" because my 3 year old un-buckled his car seat straps, it will really piss you off! Let him run around the back seat, or stop and fix his straps, either way I got pulled over! And then there is the "Ripon Air force" as we call it. A cop in a paraglider that flies 15 feet over my house, looking in my backyard, but they say it is for river patrol?? The river is not in my backyard!!
I do see your point, but sometimes it is hard to be nice, or even civil.

reply to post by seeashrink


if i am a passenger in a vehicle that is stopped (here in the USA) can the police ask me to get out of the car and search me legally? what about my possessions that i might keep on my person like a backpack?

reply to post by memoir


There is a resonable expectation of privacy inside your vehicle just like inside your home. However, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy to the air outside your vehicle or home. When the dog hits on the oder of weed outside of your car the officer now has "reasonable suspicion" to continue his investigation. The officer that says the dog alerted, even if he didn't is just a dirt bag.
Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


IMHO you are in error, do you need a piece of paper to use a washing machine, a lawn mower? it (the car legislation) is just tax, make it special (freedom) tax it.. control it....avert thee satan (not you the poster- the control behind it)

Good post, finally someone tells people about this. It annoys the hell out of me when I see videos claiming Cop brutality or right violated when the cop did nothing wrong. Yes about half of the cops I see are dicks, but know your rights and only do what you gotta do, nothing else. Hell half the time the when a cop approaches someone the person gets all pissed off and is worst that the cop he's mad at.

Every once in a while I see a good cop that accually seems like he's in the job to really help people, I always give them a thanks.

Police and their false sense of Superiority.

The majority of police go through their day as if everyone was guilty to something, or they will find it.
Giving cops quotas(state enforced/having contest) to reach ? Really that doesnt affect or is wrong in the sense of the duty of an officer?
developing town houses/condos to raise population to be able to put more officers on duty/hire more/raise pay. Who's that helping? Unnessacary and it happens in everyone town.

I know there is more. But i am just going with the side we cannot control.
Just coming from someone who has been falsely accused THREE times. that is THREE times ive been "asked to come down" than interigated. that is THREE times using my expensive lawyer. THREE times going to countless court days with nights of not being able to sleep (knowing your innocent but how do i prove). THREE times leaving a court house releaved and angered with thousands of dollars gone/wasted.
I know this is proof that the system "works". but the fact is i was GUILTY until I proved my innocence. Mean while everyone else involved was "we got em".

Where/When/Why/How/Who did the legal system go so wrong?

reply to post by BaldTaillessApe


Hmmmm. you are going to have to give a lot more details for me to remember. Plus, if you are implying by "good stuff" drugs, then I'm going to have to call you a liar. I doubt very seriously that you know me. If you do, just post on here where I work and we will discuss it. If not, I would appreciate it if you take the false accusations elsewhere.
Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


I don't disagree with you - but who's to say that the smell didn't come from somewhere else? Maybe it wafted over from the grow house I got pulled over in front of. I guess my point is that it's ridiculous that the dog is the end all be all of my privacy and rights. It just seems ludicrous.

Here's a thought I've just had - and maybe there's already some system in place... if not, there needs to be. If a dog signals x amount of false positives within x amount of time, the dog goes to get trained again or potentially retired. If an officer has x amount of false positives with different dogs within x amount of time, then the fault rests on the officer and some sort of disciplinary action is taken.

I know dogs have good noses, but c'mon... it's a dog. There needs to be incentives in place for officers to not abuse the k9 approach.

Thank you for all the information you've offered up in this thread. Keep fighting the good fight.

reply to post by seeashrink


Good thread Seeashrink and some sound advice there - in Spain there's the local cops and then the Guardia Civil, you don't mess with them but the system seems to work quite well.

Anyway, I wanted to post this link to police ufo reports, it seems theres quite a lot and I was wondering if you'd ever heard any strange reports?

Cheers.