Arizona Shooter Was on Powerful Hallucinogens (Salvia Divinorum)

Of course infowars and Alex Jones would report something this retarded. Killing people on Salvia?

They are just as brainwashed as the sheeple they claim to be saving.

Salvia doesn't inspire violence inside the human mind, it inspires awe.


Physically, emotionally and logistically impossible for SD to have had any bearing on this persons actions. Alex Jones is a fool and he has no idea what he is talking about....as usual.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
Blaming this on salvia, talk radio, or anything other than the fact that Laughner was psychotic and unstable is nonsense. The guy was crazy and crazy people do crazy things, that's it. Anyone who tries to spin this into an indictment of some unrelated issue that they have a problem with is taking advantage of a tragedy and people's feelings in order to advance their own agenda. It's devisive and manipulative and untrue.

This is just a reason to try to ban salvia in my opinion. He was crazy, did some crazy #. That's what happened. There is no other justification for taking lives and injuring so many people; for no reason. Drugs are not to blame here. He is to blame.

Originally posted by ANNED

The effects may only last minutes....

No one has ever tested this (Salvia)on someone with Schizophrenia.

Well, okay then, let's make a law that prohibits the idiots from using it, okay?

See, problem solved, whether it was a problem or not. Am I brilliant or what? Now why didn't someone else think of this solution? I must be the smartest person on Earth. Please, feel free to bring all your problems too me, I'm sure I have a solution for them all.

Here's a story about Salvia from the Washington Post that views it in a positive light:
Hallucinogen salvia has no short-term dangers, study says

A hallucinogenic drug that is apparently becoming increasingly popular is extremely powerful but does not appear to produce any adverse effects in the short term in healthy people, according to what researchers say is the first careful study to examine the substance.

In a paper published online by the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence, two men and two women--all of whom had taken hallucinogens in the past--inhaled a wide range of doses of the drug or placebos during 20 sessions that over two or three months. The subjects began to experience the drug's effects almost immediately after inhaling it, but the effects were very brief--peaking after two minutes and virtually disappearing after about 20 minutes. Two participants rated the strength of the effect as "as strong as imaginable," which is unusual for people with prior experience with hallucinogens, the researchers reported.

it doesent matter if its legal or not ,

you dont take heavy psycotropics / psycadelics like you eat a burger at your local chum in a bucket,

its not meant to be consumed / used that way

if anything its disrespectful and just shear idiotic ,

shamanistic rituals last from days to months to years , not 10 min
man hood rituals last from days to months to years , not 10 min

ill use and allegory i use quite often .

just because you own a hammer does not make you a carpenter

im not saying "self medication" is a bad option , what im trying to say is that there even published documents that suggest you have to train/practise the equalient of 10.000 hours before you are "good" at it .
meaning that even thou its 10-15 mins of something hard to explain its still hard to explain even for a shaman

time has no meaning in psycotropics , tyour mind must be ready for it no matter how long or short the time ,

i mean last time a friend of mine ventured to the amazonas, he went throu a simple 3week session on dmt and other medicines , 3 weeks not 10min , the shaman even said that he should have stayed for the full moon circle for a complete cleansing,

guess this became more a rant but people should just leave some of the experiences in the world to them that know how to teach them ,

if you think 10 min is fun try some of the ones used in rituals that last 36-48h , might be your scarred to even considere the 10 min after that ,

just disgraceful

Just about everything can affect us for the good or the bad. I could for example make valid arguments against religion, each and every one of them too.

Ethnogens can be risky, but not in the way most people would think. Ethnogens can cause an individual to become quite introspective .. self-examining. I suppose it could cause someone that hasn't been the nicest person to feel guilt, remorse, even self-hatred for the person they had become. It might even cause someone to hate what others have become.

Like I mentioned earlier, it was an ethnogenic experience that caused me to become a vegetarian. I was able to change that aspect of myself and my life. But who knows how other people may face their inner selves, their inner demons, during these kinds of experiences? I would expect a serial murderer to have feelings of suicide after a salvia experience. A wife beater might want to blow their brains out. An alcoholic might feel strongly compelled to stop drinking, and if they fail then blow their brains out. These things can be very introspective and that in itself can be an unexpected danger for some humans..

Ethnogens, when respected and use appropriately with the right mindset, set, setting, and intent, can be quite enlightening and beneficial and rewarding. But you've got to be ready to face the truth it if should be revealed to you .. and the crazy people that have a lot of messed up things going on in their lives should NEVER play near the edge of the cliff, never play around with guns, never experiment with their brain, else they could become a greater risk to themselves and others than they ALREADY are.

reply to post by westcoast


Your completely speculating, and obviously have no clue what your talking about. People like you are the reason the truth is hidden so easily, bunch of people hear about something, condemn it, and make up thier own stories.

reply to post by Shamanistical


Your contention that schizophrenics are "idiots" is rather revealing. Your ignorance on the subject of mental health and drug related psychosis is quite remarkable. You have reinforced my belief that only "idiots" actually like using salvia.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by SubPop79

 

My thought ... take an unbalanced mind .. mix with ANY high powered drug (even those that other people can take with no problem) ... and you get problems.

Nice stereotypical statement. You base this on what? What they tell you?

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can develop such 'informed' opinions about something of which they have had little, or no experience.

They speak with such authority and conviction, that the mind truly boggles.

Are we trying to deny, or promote ignorance here?

I gave up trying to argue my point with such people ages ago.

Originally posted by mrwiffler
reply to post by Shamanistical

 

Your contention that schizophrenics are "idiots" is rather revealing. Your ignorance on the subject of mental health and drug related psychosis is quite remarkable. You have reinforced my belief that only "idiots" actually like using salvia.

I looked at the post you referenced, and nowhere do I see any indication that Shamanistical refers to schizophrenics as 'idiots'.

But you are correct in one thing.
Yes I am an idiot, and have no problem with that.

Originally posted by brokenbullet56
reply to post by westcoast

 

Your completely speculating, and obviously have no clue what your talking about. People like you are the reason the truth is hidden so easily, bunch of people hear about something, condemn it, and make up thier own stories.

Ummm...this pure 'speculation' comes from dealing with it in a medical setting. Personally taking care of someone on a bad trip, talking with MD's about it, talking with professionals at poison control about, talking with police officers who have personal experience in dealing with people under it's influence and also talking with the user about his and other people's personal experiences.

So yes, I DO have a clue about it. More importantly, I have never taken a psychotropic drug so I am not personally biased about the topic. I have no hidden agenda.

I am neither speculating nor making up stories. This is the simple truth and I am sorry if it rains on your parade. As to the people claiming this person had to be on something else....nope. Drug screen came back negative for everything and the story was suported by other personal accounts of people with him.

This is the truth. Salvia, I am sure had it's place among shamans performing rituals. It is NOT something that kids should be encouraged to do because there is NO HARM. Any mind altering substance whether it be alchohol, meth or salvia has its risks. Period. This is why we are not suposed to advocate it's use here on ATS and I am still disapointed to see this topic continue.

reply to post by westcoast


I see your point, and for what it's worth I agree with it considering the facts you present.

However, there are some people who will inevitably become criminals as a result of the inevitable legislation which will come about.

Perhaps some kind of licensing scheme would be a possible solution.

Some religions do have exemption regarding some of these sacraments anyway.

(By the way, I enjoyed your story. Must have been terrifying.)

reply to post by westcoast




Your final statement rings true - A sacred plant like this should only be used in a controlled ceremonial situation and under supervision if the dosage is in any form of extract. There is a reason why Shaman's used these plants and others did not - The truth of what is universal is enough to make you fall to your knees in awe and from that plateau of knowing, life itself may seem trivial and without consequence once you step beyond the fear of the unknown.

If an individual is not grounded, we do not allow them to partake in our ceremonies - end of story.

The probability for things to go badly if a person is psychologically diagnosed can range from frightening to dangerous.

Yet I would like to stress that plants such as these act merely as a trigger, and not the cause. Great things can come from this plant, but they should only be partaken if you are on the path and well equipped for the journey both physically and mentally.

reply to post by westcoast

This is the truth. Salvia, I am sure had it's place among shamans performing rituals. It is NOT something that kids should be encouraged to do because there is NO HARM. Any mind altering substance whether it be alchohol, meth or salvia has its risks. Period.

Absolutely! It all goes back to respect and context. Am I pro-drug? You bet, when it comes to the hallucinogenic/entheogenic class of drugs (very anti meth, coke, heroin, etc however). But that doesn't mean that I go out there and say "Dude, you have to try this." That whole party aspect is what is wrong with our culture's relationship to substances. Dr. Andrew Weil wrote a very good book about the topic, entitled "The Natural Mind," which, amongst other things, compares and contrasts Amazonian culture's use of drugs vs. the generally adopted Western standard. There is harm in things most people do everyday like driving a car if the individual goes about it like an idiot. The point that I am trying to make though isn't about it's harm, but about the fact that it very likely had nothing to do with why Loughner did what he did.

So yes, I DO have a clue about it. More importantly, I have never taken a psychotropic drug so I am not personally biased about the topic. I have no hidden agenda.

I have a clue about it as well, from many different perspectives. As a therapist, I deal with mental illness/health and substance abuse on a daily basis, Your experiences sound like they have been in more of a medical context, whereas mine have been more psychological and sociological. The community in which I work is torn apart by meth and the lifestyle and child abuse/neglect issues that grow out of it. I see the harm that the stupid (mindless) use of stupid (spiritless) substances can create for an individual and society on a daily basis.

To my opinion, the first part of the quoted sentence about having a clue is negated by the second part. To think that you have a clue about hallucinogens when you have never experienced them, is like saying that you can put together a car by hand because you read a book about how it was done. In my lifetime (especially in my 20's) I have ingested my share of what Terrence Mckenna calls "heroic doses" of numerous psychedelics, and not always in a respectful context (the ignorance of youth) and have only found that it really did expand my consciousness and spiritual connection and understanding. There is no bias in understanding all sides of the subject, in fact, bias occurs when you only understand one side.

The whole point of this post is to say that I know what I am talking about in this context, and to say that Salvia use had anything to do with why Loughner did what he did is just absurd at best and taking advantage of the situation at worst

Please...watch the Republicans jump right on this. First they call Loughner a liberal, then say it's his weed-smoking that caused the relapse, now they'll say it's salvia. Sorry but NO. Stop blaming drugs for his apparent insanity; the only drug I'd say could really affect his decision, would be if he was on a meth binge/in meth psychosis. People who do meth for days without sleep become extremely paranoid, think everything is a conspiracy, and could easily do some dumb # like this. I know plenty of people who smoke salvia and weed (including myself), none of which are anything short of relaxed and intuitive individuals; definitely not "insane". Once you're back from a salvia trip, you don't suddenly decide to assassinate a random congress-woman. The real fault lies on he who committed the crime, and possibly any direct instigators--- such as right wing idiots who spew hateful rhetoric. Rush Limbaugh says "Don't kill all the liberals, just leave 1 or 2 on each campus as living fossils." Hate-speech like that is the only real reason the guy was motivated to attempt assassination. It's NOT weed, NOT salvia; so please don't start with the bull#.

It's almost as dumb as the story about some guy who killed his friend while on '___'. You don't #ing move when you smoke '___' lmao. It's called common sense

People with a family history of mental problems should most likely never use drugs.

Moving forward, if you try to blame this on his salvia usage you should be slapped in the face.

1. You can't function without laughing and giggling
   
2. You couldn't aim a gun and pick people off
   
3. This is just the media once again trying to generate more advertising revenue
   

reply to post by westcoast


An agenda? and what would that be, there is tons of research on salvia, it has no long term effects!, it lasts at maximum length 30 minutes and the climax only last up to 2 minutes, so learn your facts, if your not speculating then show your proof otherwise. Your simply continuing the argument that will never end until you do proper research and admit your wrong, sure you've been with people on drugs, do not equate salvia to other drugs, you can't just group them all together, and it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to function on salvia you can't move let alone harm yourself! You also can't rug test for it it's a proven fact that only the military can test for salvia at this point, and the active ingredient itself is not present only a by product!!!

reply to post by westcoast


You are simply a liar who is bending your words, to make up facts that fit your need, either that or your trolling and or/are a misinormed ignorant person, who is incapable of proper debate, without loosly tossing around mistruths!! good day have fun with your topic I know the facts and will continue to enjoy your topic.

Deny ignorance, is the motto of this site! perhaps you should find another.