Arizona Shooter Was on Powerful Hallucinogens (Salvia Divinorum)

reply to post by Gradius Maximus

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
You make a tall order for having a lot of maybes and "I thinks" in your post,

...the "maybes" and "i thinks" indicate its just my opinion, not proven fact...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
but heres a study by the university of california with 500 salvia users.

...i'm familiar with the study... it only proves how those 500 salvia d users reacted... while it might possibly be accurate (to a degree) of how millions of salvia d users will react, thats merely conjecture... stretching the study's findings to claim that salvia d is harmless to everyone or to only incorporate the findings that validate your opinion is disingenous - but - again, thats jmo...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
Along with my personal interactions with this sacred plant, I can safely say that its use carries a benevolent quality and I would venture to state that it may have helped him from running this course a long time ago.

...i seriously doubt that you're an authority on how every person will react to salvia d., as well as how salvia d would have affected the alleged az shooter...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
People who use these plants are looking for something, they know the world is different then it appears.

...some might fall into that category but, then, so did a lot of lsd users that ended up frying their brain and/or being so traumatised from the experience that they were never the same again...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
Those from the outside looking in who state those people are frying their brains would only be generalizing whatever propaganda they heard from the news whose only purpose is to build an army of nay sayers.

...possibly but you're generalizing as well, since you dont know the experience level or professional expertise of those you're negating...

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...maybe and maybe your response could be perceived as a defense for frying your brain... personally, i think folks should have the right to damage or kill themselves anyway they want to but, obviously, sooner or later that becomes a social expense/problem...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
Coming back to this again,

Do you even 'know' what you're talking about? Better step off the band wagon, I think its got a loose wheel.

I'd hate to see it fall apart on the journey.

...the could be perceived as phrase in my quoted statement up there indicates that i'm not claiming to know why you responded as you did but that i was simply stating a possibility... you took offense to that, obviously... okay, well, thats your call to make and its been duly noted... lets move on...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
I can ASSURE you without any doubt that Salvia Divinorum was not the driving force behind this lunacy.

...it may turn out that you're right - but - here in the real world, our opinion cannot assure anyone of anything other than our opinion on the matter...

reply to post by FlyersFan


There is no way he was high on Salvia while allegedly commiting the crime. As mentioned before, it lasts 5 minutes tops. During that 5 minutes you would be lucky to control the drool coming out of your mouth...I'm not even joking.

I will say that constant abuse of this substance could cause insanity in a "troubled mind." It is a very powerful substance.

reply to post by westcoast



Yep, a large enough dose of salvia and your in for a bad time. Easily one of the most distressing things you're likely to experience. Alex Jones is of course being idiotic about it but salvia is definitely not a drug for someone with psychotic tendencies. In my experience not many people actually like salvia and the ones that do are fairly crazy hippies...who think brutal, chemically induced derangement is a good thing. This Jared fellow reminds me of this type of person...really crazy guy, and the drugs didn't help. Particularly not the strong psychedelics.

And that study with the high percent of positive experiences from salvia intoxication being reported is pretty meaningless without details such as method of ingestion and dosage. Not to mention details from the people (the majority actually) who didn't respond positively. Typical bull# statistics generated by academics who A/ think psychedelics are great and B/ have luckily never had an overdose.

Originally posted by SubPop79
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The effects of Salvia last mere minutes and you barely walk on it, let alone pick up a gun. It is one of the4 most powerful hallucinogens out there, yes, but you have to be REALLY skilled and practically immune to its effects to do anything normal on it, like speaking with real words, or getting out of your seat. It produces a profound feeling of falling backwards too. It isn't like '___' or Mushrooms where you can operate essentially normally. Drugs also don't effect your mind after the fact. You have to have been doing a LOT of ALL the time for them to have a mental effect on you when you are NOT using them. I know some very big pot heads who basically watch Comedy Central all day and when they are not high they are actually very awake and productive, even if they vegged out all week smoking 3 grams a day.

edit on 13-1-2011 by SubPop79 because: (no reason given)

Yup.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Well I guess that leaves us both as just a pair of limp mushy bananas with our opinions, doesnt it?

Lets agree to not shoot anybody, that way you and I will be ahead of the game.

-G

I told my husband about this thread and he wanted to know why Hannah Montana (Miley Cirus) didn't go kill anyone.

I just thought that was funny and wanted to share.
She got caught smoking it recently.

Salvia is an insane drug. It can really # with your head. At high doses, it's essentially like getting sucked into a black hole from hell. Your dimension rips apart, and everything you know twirls and smashes together into oblivion until you are but a speck, and boom that is obliterated, then you are nothing, boom that is obliterated, you don't exist, in fact, there never was a you. My friend Tom says its even more powerful than '___'. Apparently '___' is like "loading the universe into a canon and firing it into your head".

So, I can see how that might make the guy go insane. I doubt he was taking that while he went on his rampage though lol... Watch the "driving on Salvia" videos on Youtube for more information.

EDIT: Here's the video I speak of (sorry if this has been posted)

This just smacks of "let's see what else we can get banned" taking advantage of the situation. Plus, to mainstream America, hallucinogens, especially ones that are still legal, are the bogeyman. There is limited understanding of hallucinogens and their power. Part of a shamanic class of plant called "teacher plants" or "plant allies," Salvia, and others like it such as mushrooms and Ibogaine, and its derivatives like ayahuasca brews provide healing and insight when approached with respect. Prior to the late 60's, all sorts of successful experimentation was going on with psychedelic and psycholytic (sub-psychedelic doses) therapy by many successful psychologists, Stanislav Grof and Timothy Leary to name a few. Leary's (say what you will, but the man was still a Harvard professor) experiments with mushroom therapy with inmates is a brilliant study to prove this point. The study showed a markedly lower recidivism rate of the convicts who used the mushrooms. Even CNN published something recently about the healing use of mushrooms for depression. Much has been written and studied about the psychedelic Ibogaine, which has helped heroin and coc aine addicts kick the habit and stay clean. Ayahuasca has survived for so long amongst the Amazonian peoples because it is healing.

They demand respect to be sure and will give you the smack-down if you approach them lightly. Salvia demands a lot of respect and, like others have said, knocks you on your ass, even when you do approach it with respect. I never cared for it myself-very disorienting, even for one who is well oriented. It may provide insight, in the same way that the Iboga spirit does, but would have very little effect on "pushing someone over the edge", even someone that was predisposed to mental illness. A schizo-mimetic like a strong '___' could push a person predisposed to schizophrenia over the edge, but Salvia (or any of the other natural teacher plants would not.)

As to "Alex Jones said it so it must be true," speaking as someone that fends of debunkers and trolls-rather than being one myself-don't be so naive as to think that he doesn't have an agenda as well or that his information is not spun as much as others (only in a different direction.) He brings awareness to things generally hidden from the mainstream, but not everything reported on prison planet can be trusted to be the gospel truth.

this is better news than the accusation he was a political/survivalist/ home-grown-terrorist


the Progressives will lap this up...lets blame the (innocuous) drug for the aggression

I'm gonna reply what everyone else has already replied...Salvia (I know this...trust me) last only a few minutes, during which there is no way in HELL you could possibly manage to walk, let alone go on a killing spree. Afterwards, users just feel kind of tired and...not there. It doesn't turn you into a psychopathic killer. A messed up upbringing and mental disorders do that. I wish I could take stars and flags away from you. Keep em in a little box and play with 'em when I'm lonely...little stars and flags...mmmmm

reply to post by sliceNodice


Yes, with salvia, the world beneath your feet will vanish as you tumble through the dimensional layers, peeling every illusion away that you've ever known - all that you will perceive is that which it truly is, generally as tiny dots of energetic signatures. You have leaped from belief, into knowing. It is a wild plant spirit ally, one that deserves more respect then mainstream use is giving it.

Thankfully its so powerful, few return a second time - except for the few who remember that the other side is okay.

Yeah...This guy in the video looks 'very' aggressive and dangerous. LOL



They might as well use this incident to ban a hallucinogen or two while they take your guns away.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Salvia is a Plant that does indeed produce psychoactive effects, You would know however if you done research into the plant instead of being a puppet that it is both legal, and these "Dangerous" psychotropic effects last 10 minutes tops.

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

Well I guess that leaves us both as just a pair of limp mushy bananas with our opinions, doesnt it?

...which reminds me, i got three of those in the kitchen... banana bread time - yum...

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
Lets agree to not shoot anybody, that way you and I will be ahead of the game.
-G

...okay, you got a deal...

Originally posted by SubPop79
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The effects of Salvia last mere minutes and you barely walk on it, let alone pick up a gun.

That's right, it's short acting like a whiff of nitrous oxide and about as incapacitating too. It's not at all like pot where it's affect can last an hour or a bit longer. Also, any (futile) attempt to get up and roam around while under the influence of salvia will also greatly diminish its trippy affect too. Opening your eyes will ground you back on Earth, ha. Also, numerous people are totally unaffected by salvia unless they do it in a very sensory deprived environment (dark quiet room with eyes closed, etc.). Ain't no way salvia could have had anything to do with this and those that would say otherwise obviously have no experience with this short acting sacred plant.

reply to post by sliceNodice


The gasp in that video at 2:10 is priceless.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

There are simply no "long-term effects." Those who say so are ignorant of pharmacology.
This sorry exposé by disinfo agent Osler may be the pretext of banning an innocent recreational drug.
The man was clearly schizophrenic - or at least borderline, you can see that from any posts he wrote.
That was not caused by Salvia - too bad it cannot be remedied by such an innocent substance which can be used even in therapy of normal patients in my private assessment.
I do not work with any drugs now, I use consulting homeopaths.
Cheers.

More likely he was under the influence of XANAX. That is a very powerful drug that makes you lose your inhibitions and do things you are not usually capable of.

I've tried Saliva, a legal drug, even in CA. Those of you who have tried it must have made you ask yourself, how is this legal? Perhaps it is legal because it is meant to be legal. Pehaps it is a tool that helps with "Stochastic Terrorism"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Perhaps constant use of this drug by mentally unstable users helps facilitate this type of mind control.

Salvia is considered to be a Dissociative drug. It is not a secret that psycoactive drugs were used in MK Ultra.

Originally posted by QuantumDisciple
reply to post by sliceNodice

 

The gasp in that video at 2:10 is priceless.

The laugh he does at 3:30 cracks me up every time

Reminds me of terrence mckenna.


The cosmic joke, we are love and light, all that other stuff? OOPS! LAWL!

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


I was gonna say Hunter S. Thompson